#983213 - 01/04/18 12:18 PM
WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
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The Tide changed
Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
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New article up on Tidal exchange today regarding the 10-year Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan: https://tidalexchange.com/2018/01/04/wdfw-gives-up-puget-sound-fishing-for-nothing/ We'd love your insightful feedback...Discuss!
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"
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#983223 - 01/04/18 12:58 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1303
Loc: North Creek
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Thanks for sharing. Well written and reasoned. What is the co-managers' response to this position and line of reasoning? Was this considered and discussed during negotiations? OH, that's right - we'll never know.
I'm curious as to WDFW and the Tribes motivation to shut down PS fishing. They do that and they'll loose support for the hatchery programs that are working putting further pressure on Wilds with the sea lions and whales without any other food source to mitigate. A vicious downward spiral for our fisheries.
Without a major change in management, sell the boat or go to the north are our options - neither good for the fish or the economy.
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#983227 - 01/04/18 01:31 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
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The article is very well researched and clearly explains how "flawed" thinking and "special interest consideration" will devastate our sport and our fish.
It is important to remember however why we are having to be reactive rather than been pro-active. The fact that the Department is using the Tribal position that they are immune to state open meetings laws to secretly negotiate in a way that is not beneficial to the recreational community.
WE are now faced with an uphill battle to FIX this plan, when we should have had a part in it's crafting. Had the proper procedures been followed and the public, sport advisory groups, recreational organizations and the Commission been involved, we would of produced a much better policy and it would of been done with cohesion and confidence.
This again highlights the damage our continuation with allowing Secret Meetings cause.
We must all let the Commission know, we cannot abide any more prohibition of public oversight in our fisheries management. THIS MUST BE THE LAST TIME WE HAVE TO BE REACTIVE to a deal WDFW cut with the tribes!
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"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."
1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)
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#983228 - 01/04/18 01:32 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: OceanSun]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 2995
Loc: Olalla, WA
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I thought it was a well-reasoned article......until the habitat card came up. We all know that habitat is critical. I am not familiar with the Stilly basin, but a quick Google Earth shows me that, other than the development right around Arlington and it's storm water impacts, the rest of the basin looks pretty undeveloped. And if Arlington's development footprint increase in impervious surfaces has mainly occurred since 2005, the storm water discharge should not be an issue. And Arlington is only about 10 miles the way the crow flies from the Sound, and I would think that the majority of the spawning would be further upriver.
I know the Oso slide couldn't have been much help to the system, and logging is always significant to increasing peak flows. It didn't appear that the basin was that depleted of forested areas? Does Arlington's wastewater discharge to the river?
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Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours......Gordon Lightfoot Damn Stam! Remember, Ask yourself "What would Stam do?"
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#983230 - 01/04/18 02:25 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1270
Loc: WaRshington
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NOFISH that couldn't be further from the truth. A lot of the upper river is rip rapped and can not function properly within its floodplain, and roughly 90%+ of the lower habitat in the "estuary" is diked/rip rapped for agriculture. More recently there has been efforts (primarily by the Stilliguamish Tribe, mind you) to breach some of the relic levies that are no longer providing functionality for ag land and re-inundate the tide marsh in the estuary. Estuarine habitats are CRUCIAL for juvenile survival. Moreover, there are a ton of culverts throughout the basin on its tribs (the main spawning habitats), several of which are currently in process or have already been repaired as a direct result of the States loss to the tribes over the culverts case that has been ongoing. The habitat in the Stilly basin is hurting bad, there's no doubt about that in my mind!
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When I grow up I want to be, One of the harvesters of the sea. I think before my days are done, I want to be a fisherman.
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#983231 - 01/04/18 02:53 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 1216
Loc: Monroe, Washington
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The habitat is in terrible condition is the problem. If you were to stop all fishing on the West Coast these wild Chinook still could not recover. I recieved this from Curt Kraemer this morning on the sediment in the river. "Based on this estimate, landslide material accounted for about 30 percent of the total suspended sediment load in the lower Stillaguamish River between March 2014 and September 2015." Sediment information came from a USGS study. "Geomorphic Response of the North Fork Stillaguamish River to the State Route 30 landslide near Oso, Washington", a 2017 report https://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2017/5055/sir20175055.pdfThe relevant find comes from the 4 th paragraph in the Stanwood section on Page 44. So 70% of the sediment is from other sources other than the Oso Landslide. The available habitat/river capacity for wild chinook is about 930. Curt ran the numbers. WDFW modelers back it up with 900-1000 fish. Page 167 of the plan states that Chinook recovery is highly unlikely in its current form. I dont think all of the tribes were involved with the Stilly. Each had to deal with its own rivers/UandA. I think this is more of a Stilly issue than all tribal issue. I have feed back that quite a few tribes are not liking this either. Most think that it is a green light for them but its not. It the impacts are to go over the new 8% they might not fish either. So this really is not a tribal issue except for the Stilly Tribe. I think they made a stand for very little-to no fishing for last 25 years. They want their river fixed or something to happen to help fix it. I guess they made their point and were heard. We are working on a solution to the problem. I cannot say what that is right now but am feeling better about our outcome. It has been a 4+ week exploration for us. The best thing anyone can do is to email a letter to the Commission and let them know your thoughts. At the last meeting with WDFW over this, they told us they had a meeting scheduled with the commission and the commission was going to direct them on what was to be done. So do your part right now and email a letter to the commission telling them that you want this Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan either altered or rescinded, but cannot live with it in its current state, if you agree. This helps the newer non fish commissioners understand from our perspective how we feel and want to see happen. commission@dfw.wa.gov, PSA is in the process of putting together a letter to the commission behalf of our chapters and the recreationals. We will be sending out an Voter Voice announcement for others too.
Edited by Fishinnut (01/04/18 03:11 PM)
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Join the Puget Sound Anglers Sno-King Chapter. Meets second Thursday of every month at the SCS Center, 220 Railroad Ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 at 6:30pm Two buildings south of the Edmonds Ferry on the beach.
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#983233 - 01/04/18 03:10 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7435
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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WDFW, especially under Phil, wanted ocean fisheries for salmon. The PS fisheries have been cut back for years. The Tribes, I think, would prefer to not see any fishing in "their" home waters. Also, if the NI share is taken in the summer in the ocean then the Tribal fisheries get to balance that off, per Hoh v. Baldridge. They want the ocean fishing.
Doesn't really matter to them, also, who pays for the hatcheries. It is a government responsibility to mitigate for the ecological damage done by approved activities.
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#983235 - 01/04/18 04:27 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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Great article as far as it went. There are other holes in the 5 gallon bucket which negatively affect returns and which may be mitigated (to include but not limited to predation).
If readers go to the group's website and check out the Board of Directors there are several tribal members to include one from the Stillaguamish tribe.
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#983236 - 01/04/18 05:15 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7435
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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There are enough things wrong with today's salmon-driven ecosystems that everybody can say "It's not us, it's them" and be right. Fix all the habitat and the pinnipeds and fishery and hatchery impacts will still hold them down. Close all the fisheries and the seals will be happy.
Unfortunately, there is so much blame to go around that nobody really has to do anything because the other guy should act first.
Way back when the Feds were first talking about banning lead for waterfowl hunting WDG opposed it because habitat loss was killing more ducks than lead poisoning. Same logic holds for salmon.
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#983238 - 01/04/18 06:12 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Carcassman]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
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There are enough things wrong with today's salmon-driven ecosystems that everybody can say "It's not us, it's them" and be right. Fix all the habitat and the pinnipeds and fishery and hatchery impacts will still hold them down. Close all the fisheries and the seals will be happy.
Unfortunately, there is so much blame to go around that nobody really has to do anything because the other guy should act first.
Way back when the Feds were first talking about banning lead for waterfowl hunting WDG opposed it because habitat loss was killing more ducks than lead poisoning. Same logic holds for salmon. IF there is ever going to be any chance of addressing this in any meaningful manner, it is going to take a cohesive and cooperative effort by ALL parties. With the Senior Leadership of WDFW doing everything at it's dysfunctional best, to drive a larger wedge between the treaty tribes and the largest stewards (us) we are not going in the right direction!
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"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."
1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)
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#983241 - 01/04/18 07:00 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7435
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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It will take all pieces working together, even those who see that their role is "small".
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#983243 - 01/04/18 07:58 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1195
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
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Letter sent.
fb
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#983289 - 01/06/18 04:52 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1386
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How will this 10 year plan affect Puget Sound Winter Blackmouth fishing seasons?
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#983396 - 01/09/18 06:03 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1721
Loc: Yarrow Point
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Blackmouth in area 7/8/9 sure seem very very likely to be a casualty.
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The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan
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#983472 - 01/11/18 01:15 PM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: fishbadger]
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Carcass
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
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Sent email to commuissioners. Well written article!
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The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein
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#983498 - 01/12/18 10:39 AM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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The Tide changed
Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
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Here is a link to the plan WDFW is presenting to commisioners today. Had we used this plan as it sits to model last years fisheries, people would be marching on Olympia. see page 39 https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/01/jan1218_Combined_PSCHMP.pdf
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"
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#983500 - 01/12/18 11:38 AM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Fry
Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Duvall
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I read the plan, I felt like the missed a golden opportunity to bring up the Pinniped predation on Salmon in puget sound and address the the MMPA could interfere with the ability to recover an ESA stock.
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#983502 - 01/12/18 11:42 AM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
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Thanks Skyguy for posting this:
Pay close attention to how they dance around the issue of transparency. What they are saying is, it's better to NOT LET THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT DEALS WE ARE MAKING! AND WE NEED TO KEEP THE COMMISSION OUT OF THE LOOP, SO THEY DON'T LET THE PUBLIC KNOW EITHER!
SO, folks, the senior staff at WDFW in collusion with the Tribes are creating policies that directly effect you, yet THEY feel it's better if you don't know about it! WHY?????
BECAUSE IF YOU KNEW ABOUT IT THE GD POLICY WOULDN'T OF GOTTEN WRITTEN THEY WAY IT DID!!
FK THESE CROOKED MF'S!! WE PAY THESE SOB'S SALERY!!! TIME FOR SOMEONE(S) HEAD TO BE ON A PIKE!!!
Edited by Bay wolf (01/12/18 12:47 PM)
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."
1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)
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#983550 - 01/13/18 11:52 AM
Re: WDFW Gives Up Puget Sound Fishing… For Nothing
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 186
Loc: Bothell
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FYI. Link is a letter from NSIA to WDFW regarding the Chinook plan. The document is constructed a little different. You have to go to the bottom of the page and hit an arrow to go to the next page. http://www.nsiafishing.org/general/nsia-...880828857421875
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