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#983326 - 01/08/18 12:48 PM Skagit C&R
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
I thought the prospects of reopening the CR season on the Skagit/Sauk was great until I read the document indicating that it includes gill netting seasons.

"Co-managers anticipate fisheries directed at adult steelhead may occur in the following areas
(McClure 2017) (Figure 2):
Treaty Fisheries:
● Commercial marine Area 8 (Skagit Bay and Saratoga Passage)
● Freshwater Areas 78C, 78D-1, 78D-2, 78D-3, and 78D-4 to the mouth of the Baker
River; 78O Baker River from the Skagit River to Hwy 20 bridge; 78B Sauk River from
the Skagit River to the Sauk Prairie Road bridge; 78P Cascade River from the Skagit
River to the Rockport/Cascade bridge
● Freshwater Area 78P in the lower reach of the Cascade River "

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#983328 - 01/08/18 12:59 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Harvestable fish get shared. Can't have one without the other.

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#983330 - 01/08/18 02:20 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
It's working great on the OP, right?

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#983331 - 01/08/18 02:29 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Brent K Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 108
Loc: Arlington, Washington
From what I have heard and read it looked like they would take those steelhead in their chinook fisheries. Not that it makes it much better but maybe most of them will be able to spawn before being killed in a net.

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#983332 - 01/08/18 03:21 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: Carcassman]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Harvestable fish get shared. Can't have one without the other.

I hadn't thought about it that way. So how many days of gill netting will it take to equal the impact of selective gear catch and release? Not many I would think.

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#983333 - 01/08/18 03:54 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1269
Loc: WaRshington
See there's the difference. Our harvest are the fish we release to swim off and make babies. Their harvest is those that are sold at Safeway.
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

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#983336 - 01/08/18 04:13 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Right. Each side gets X dead fish. The Tribes sell/eat theirs. In a C&R fishery the released fish dies somewhere. Each side gets the same number of dead fish.

C&R is not non-lethal.

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#983337 - 01/08/18 04:35 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: Carcassman]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Really?? I would agree that C&R is not 100% non lethal. With single hook selective gear it is more like 2% lethal. Not sure how many releases are made by sports but it would have to be thousands to kill as many fish as a single gill net.


Edited by jam session (01/08/18 04:57 PM)

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#983338 - 01/08/18 04:51 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Some of this information is dated so it may not be entirely accurate but I think it's close enough to get the idea across.
The management plan was put together by WDFW, three tribes, and the Skagit River System Cooperative. The tribes were involved because that's what co-management means, and it's the law.

It's been reported that the tribes use most of their impacts during the Spring chinook fishery (June) which results in capturing steelhead kelts. This is not accounted for in a 1 for 1 manner, but something like 6 kelts being equal to 1 impact. Reason being that the fish have spawned already and there is reduced likelyhood that most of them will return again.

In the C&R fishery, impacts are calculated at 10% mortality; 10 released = 1 impact.

So what does it all mean?
Lets run some numbers. In the tiered impacts schedule a forecasted run of 5000 fish would allow for 10% impacts. That's 500 dead fish. The Tribes get half and we get half. So for us we are allowed 250 impacts. At a mortality rate of 10% we would have to release 2500 fish to max out the allowed impacts. It's a 12 week season...that means we would have to C&R 208.33 every single week for 12 weeks running. All this while 25% of the run never swims above the downstream fishing barrier!

If you can find a more conservative plan that still allows fishing for steelhead, I'd like to hear about it.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#983339 - 01/08/18 05:00 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: _WW_]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Thanks for providing the 10% figure. I didn't know that is what it is based on. Seems real conservative. Do you know how that figure was established?

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#983340 - 01/08/18 05:20 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
As I under stand it that is a figure the feds have used for quite awhile. It's considered a safe, (as in making the error on the side of the fish) and I believe first used in the Columbia basin. Perhaps Salmo or Carcassman can confirm and flesh out a few more of the details.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#983341 - 01/08/18 05:36 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Reason I ask is that I think that figure should depend a lot on allowed technique. That seems like a bait, treble hook kind of number. Is that even in the discussion?


Edited by jam session (01/08/18 05:38 PM)

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#983342 - 01/08/18 05:52 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Again, the higher number is used to er on the side of the fish.
The two upcoming meetings are for WDFW to collect thought from anglers about what rules to use. I predict it will probably be selective gear rules, no bait, single barbless hook.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#983343 - 01/08/18 06:03 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
We all seem to agree that 10% is more than the actual mortality associated with C&R on riverine steelhead. The catch is that the same 10% figure is used to estimate C&R impacts in all fisheries, including saltwater salmon, where most would agree the actual impact is probably more than 10% (a lot more for coho). To model fisheries, you need some parameters. Under the treaty, if we get to play with 2500 fish, they get to kill 250. That's where we're at.

Nobody said we actually have to kill our 250 (assuming we can catch our 2500). Treat them with respect, and shoot for an impact somewhere closer to 1%.

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#983344 - 01/08/18 06:11 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
My interest is in managing the Gill net share to a minimum since it is 100% kill. How is catch rate for sporties established? No fishing with motor reduces this for example. What is the assumed impact for a week of C&R?

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#983345 - 01/08/18 06:17 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Oh and I do completely agree with Flea that the mortality for immature salmon in the sound is much higher. Trolling with downriggers and big hooks kill a lot of shakers. Much lower number for rivers.

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#983346 - 01/08/18 06:32 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
Don't underestimate how lethal it is to overplay a fish, net it, grab it a bunch of times and take tons of pictures of it! Not as lethal as a gill net, but still. . .

. . .sorry, somebody had to say it!

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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#983347 - 01/08/18 06:39 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Totally agree so let’s educate people to not do that. Most who would participate in this fishery already know

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#983348 - 01/08/18 06:55 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: fishbadger]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Originally Posted By: fishbadger
Don't underestimate how lethal it is to overplay a fish, net it, grab it a bunch of times and take tons of pictures of it! Not as lethal as a gill net, but still. . .

. . .sorry, somebody had to say it!

fb

I would think that the majority of us that are careful will balance out against those that aren't. As for how many get encountered in a C&R week? The answer is...it depends on the week. Thinking back on my fishing in the nineties I don't think I ever heard of more than 15 in a day... and often you wouldn't hear of any in the evening at Howard Miller...but then I wasn't going around asking either. Since I live here, most often I would just fish the last hole and head home. I do remember guides going days without touching one.

Lots of folks are thinking they'll just have to show up to the Skagit and they'll hook up. Tain't necessarily so and I'm sure a great many will be disappointed and start clamoring "the run is down!"

The Skagit and Saulk have a lot of water that several thousand fish can just disappear in...and we only get to fish a portion of it. You'll work your ass off for a grab!
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#983351 - 01/08/18 07:46 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
jam session Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Lake Goodwin
Oh yeah! yes i will👍

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