http://knkx.org/post/endangered-orcas-are-starving-should-we-start-feeding-them

Even discussions of "indefinite funding" into the future! 10 million plus Chinook in PS per year! Lets make this happen!

For purposes of discussing Puget Sound Chinook hatchery production please keep in mind that the total number of hatchery releases decreased by 57% (43,580,294) from 1990 (76,989,568) to 2016 (33,409,274). So an additional 10MM fish would represent an increase of only 25% of what was lost due to decreases in General Fund appropriations and its dance partner ESA listed Chinook stocks.

Too bad that KNKX didn't dig into that reduction, northern fisheries, habitat and the not to be discussed by polite people 800 pound gorillas of pinniped predation and non-selective fishing particularly on the ESA listed stocks.

I know, preaching to the choir.....

Hey, wait a minute. At least were talking about an increase. Hatchery production has been on a downward spiral. This is positive news for once. My hope is that the 10-20 million increase comes in the form of the delayed release Blackmouth program w/ in PS. Do you have those delayed release numbers back in the late 70's and early 80's? I fished the Narrows area back then as a drift moocher, Evans, Concrete Dock, Gibson. Pt Def. area Dalco. It was on fire from Thanksgiving through Christmas. If we keep the majority of these plants in PS, and they didn't leave and get intercepted north of us, locally we all win! The whales and sportsman get the benefit. The fish stay here for them to eat and for us to catch. Whats wrong w/ that? Restart and clean up the So. PS Capital Lake rearing pens. Make them work and be productive. Lets have Blackmouth available from Olympia to the San Juans! It happened before, it can happen again! All we need is the commitment to put the numbers in. It seems an excuse to do so exists NOW! Lets take advantage of the Legislative and $$$ support! I could care less if we have full migratory Chinook that go North and get intercepted vs the local opportunity. My 2cents.

Even if the bill passes and is signed by the Gov, will it happen? I thought PS Chinook hatchery production is limited both by budget reductions AND the PS Chinook Recovery Plan under the ESA.

Well, there are those pesky issues beyond just throwing money (or better described as replacing prior reductions) ......

Nobody can predict at this point if it will happen. I am optimistic for the first time in a long time that it has potential. Seems like funding might come along with a political will. The public seems to back protecting Orcas over the wild interference argument. When do states rights come play? Treading lightly here...
Salmo, your a dept. and a science guy and know lots. But I know lots through past experience as do lots of old timers here. I know what was, and what still can be as far as fantastic fishing. If the Orca argument can put 20 million MORE Blackmouth in PS and have the backing and the funding of the State Legislature and the Tribes, regardless of ESA, I am all in! The Orcas are, at this point an "OPPORTUNITY" to gain both public, governmental and Tribal support over and above ESA. I have always thought a world class PS Chinook fishery exists. This just might be the time to bring back what was envisioned for PS 40 years ago!

Wouldn't pens limit ESA concerns? Also, while the extra fishing pressure could result in more encounters, I think it could be easily argued that the increases in releases could reduce the predation rate on ESA limited fish, while benefitting the ESA listed Orca's. Further, by limiting fishing in areas most likely to encounter the listed fish, the benefit would go up. Seems like a win-win situation.

krijack-

In some ways raising the fish in pens increase ESA concerns. What was seen at the time of the ESA listing of Puget Sound Chinook the uncaught Chinook returning to those net pens shot gunned through out the region straying to a number of rivers without anyway to collect most of the fish at a hatchery rack.

A far cheap alternate or additional method of adding to the biomass of hatchery Chinook available to the orcas would use selective breeding techniques to reverse the size selection that has occurred to the hatchery Chinook returning to Puget Sound hatcheries. Since the mid-1950s those fish have gotten significant smaller. It would be straight forward to increase the average size of Puget Sound adult Chinook say by 20% without much additional cost. This would result in a 20% increase in the biomass of hatchery Chinook available to the orca and at the same time not increasing the number of unwanted hatchery on the spawning grounds.

Curt

Thanks Salma,
I did not realize they strayed into the rivers that much. Do you know if there would be a way to delay the release of some of the Deschutes river stock. With around 30,000 returning there it seems that a lot are not being caught. If the department could get more of these to stay as blackmouth it seems it would be an advantage to the area in a lot of ways. I realize the past net pens in the area may not be viable anymore but are there any other areas or methods that might work?

I was under the impression that the reduced size in Chinook was due to harvest of the older fish. Since they are available to the fishery for longer, the chances of getting old and big are reduced.

The whales eat adults as they return. The same problem of fishing on them won't change.

To add to that, now data is showing up in AK that size at age is reducing. The fish are getting smaller because of lack of food.

The idea to stock Chinook to actually benefit whales will work only if all Pacific Coast fisheries are capped at the number of Chinook taken in recent years and these fish become total add-ons. That, and control of the pinnipeds eating smolts.

AND don't forget about the question of what the additional hatchery salmon will eat, considering that they don't have enough food to support their current populations either.

The ecosystem is out of balance. That's one of a few problems throwing money around can't fix (and indeed will often only exacerbate).

Not saying it wouldn't be great to have more fish to catch....