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#986209 - 02/28/18 08:35 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
No, turn the question the other way. WDFW, please explain and justify to the satisfaction of your stakeholders why, all factors considered. you continue with this program?
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It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#986210 - 02/28/18 09:17 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Going back to what I feel was being said by the staff member, there was no real effort to close the Adams Hatchery because the tribe was actually willing to work with the state in getting the fishery back open. The closure, in reality and hopefully, is just a reset on the way the fishery is being conducted. Had the state made any real effort to clean it up, I don't think the closure would have happened. If you were ever there, it would be hard to argue that there were not a fair number of idiots and sketchy individuals participating. I tried to fish eggs and was yelled at because it would scare the fish out of the hole. This was by guys fishing black yarn or, in one case, just a bare hook. To think that none of these guys ever said anything to the tribal members conducting their fishery is hard to believe. I know I have felt uncomfortable in saying anything about what I was witnessing, so I would guess some the netters would have too. I am really hoping the state gets their act together and makes some rules that benefit the overall fishery, and then makes the effort to enforce them.
I guess we will see what happens, but I am betting on a fishery with some limited entry days and restrictions on fishing methods.

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#986213 - 02/28/18 09:32 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Thinking we can use anything as leverage against the tribes has not worked so far.
Plant fish stupid!

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#986221 - 03/01/18 08:46 AM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
Although a digression, a few more words about sockeye transfers. The Baker hatchery collects more sockeye than needed as broodstock - just in case. It is from this surplus that excess eggs that pass the disease protocol screening are made available for transfer to Cushman. Anyone getting hot and bothered by this is truly being mindful of minutiae. The number of fish that might have been othewise made available for recreational harvest is in the category of a rounding error.

When the decisions were being made to re-introduce sockeye to the Skokomish system, the lower river was open to non-treaty recreational fishing. No one at that time imagined a future condition where those eventual sockeye would not be accessible to both treaty and non-treaty fishermen. Since it remains unknown how long it will take before harvestable numbers of sockeye return to the Skokomish, there is time to figure out a way for allocations to be shared.

Considering the despicable snagfest that passes for Chinook fishing in the lower river, I am all for some kind of management changes being made, lest the returning sockeye be subject to the same unsporting treatment.

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#986229 - 03/01/18 12:44 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
Way too intelligent and reasonable Salmo. . .that sh!t will never pass muster around here.

fb
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#986230 - 03/01/18 12:52 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Salmo g.]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Although a digression, a few more words about sockeye transfers. The Baker hatchery collects more sockeye than needed as broodstock - just in case. It is from this surplus that excess eggs that pass the disease protocol screening are made available for transfer to Cushman. Anyone getting hot and bothered by this is truly being mindful of minutiae. The number of fish that might have been othewise made available for recreational harvest is in the category of a rounding error.

When the decisions were being made to re-introduce sockeye to the Skokomish system, the lower river was open to non-treaty recreational fishing. No one at that time imagined a future condition where those eventual sockeye would not be accessible to both treaty and non-treaty fishermen. Since it remains unknown how long it will take before harvestable numbers of sockeye return to the Skokomish, there is time to figure out a way for allocations to be shared.

Considering the despicable snagfest that passes for Chinook fishing in the lower river, I am all for some kind of management changes being made, lest the returning sockeye be subject to the same unsporting treatment.


SG is spot on. Puget has very successful program at Baker with plenty of eggs to share. If it can be used as a bargaining chip for opportunity, have at it!
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#986237 - 03/01/18 02:53 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Sorry, but I am somewhat unclear about what is being suggested. If one "negotiates" now for opportunity to fish that would seem to be accepting that the tribe's and BIA's position is correct.

If the underlying issue is really about trash and sanitation then fine, have those negotiations with the State and adjacent NT landowners promising a long term commitment to improved site conditions with the tribe/BIA then withdrawing its claim. I seriously doubt that such a NT offer would elicit the desired tribal/BIA response because those site conditions were, in my opinion, merely a convenient launching platform.

The alternative is to take this to court and if the tribe/BIA prevails on the facts then negotiate for NT access as a condition of continuation of WDFW monies for Adams hatchery ops.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#986245 - 03/01/18 05:40 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Baker Lake 2017
16360 Trapped
8704 Transferred to Baker Lake
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Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#986246 - 03/01/18 06:27 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: _WW_]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
To my untrained eye, that doesn't look like a windfall of sockeye.

The potential for sockeye in the Skok seems unlikely to reduce snagging, but if they can get established in Cushman (and we're allowed to fish it), there could be some interesting opportunities in the future...

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#986260 - 03/02/18 09:01 AM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
At best, Cushman could produce about half as many sockeye as Baker. But that would be many thousands more than are produced currently. The intent of the sockeye re-introduction to Cushman is to restore an extirpated fishery that will provide enhanced fishing opportunity for both treaty and non-treaty fishermen. If that were not the intent, the agreement would not have occurred.

With respect to the lower Skok being open or closed, I would a whole lot rather it were closed if "sport" fishermen will not refrain from snagging fish than because WDFW chooses to honor the Tribe's claim of ownership prior to it being adjudicated. If the Tribe or BIA/DOI sues and wins the claim, then WDFW needs to totally re-think fish management within the Skokomish basin.

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#986284 - 03/02/18 01:29 PM Re: WDFW plans to Open the Skokomish, well, sort of. [Re: Bay wolf]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
. . .perhaps including the Satsop (different issue I know, but still. . .),

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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