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#997930 - 12/03/18 11:29 AM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 666
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10

The recently filed federal civil rights suit (Shopbell/Anderson/Paul vs. WDFW ) really rounds out the picture:

From the Co-Managers: "We can harvest where and when, and as much as we want, and you can't be anywhere near us on the federal waters the State controls."

As compared to a few months ago, it appears the interviews and search for the WDFW Director position should have included some higher-ups in the federal attorney generals office. Managing hatchery budgets, salaries, and such pales in comparison to the real issues. It clear WDFW is terrified of legal action, though that's obviously where it's all currently happening (and should have been about 10 years ago.)

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#997931 - 12/03/18 11:50 AM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
The State Attorney General’s representatives assigned to WDFW and the Commission are entwined in the corruption and scheming like snakes in a ball. Dig into thier role in the horrible Chinook harvest plan that was done behind locked doors and behind the Commissins backs.

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#997951 - 12/03/18 04:48 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: ned]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: ned

The recently filed federal civil rights suit (Shopbell/Anderson/Paul vs. WDFW ) really rounds out the picture:

From the Co-Managers: "We can harvest where and when, and as much as we want, and you can't be anywhere near us on the federal waters the State controls."

As compared to a few months ago, it appears the interviews and search for the WDFW Director position should have included some higher-ups in the federal attorney generals office. Managing hatchery budgets, salaries, and such pales in comparison to the real issues. It clear WDFW is terrified of legal action, though that's obviously where it's all currently happening (and should have been about 10 years ago.)


Makes for an interesting read of what are - as presented - numerous egregious violations: https://turtletalk.files.wordpress.com/2...f-property.pdf.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#997970 - 12/04/18 07:15 AM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The State, as a whole, is terrified of the Tribes and Boldt II (habitat). Obviously, habitat for natural resources has been screwed over. The Tribes have a Habitat Hammer from the treaties but we don't know how big.

Let's just say that in goes to the Supremes and they say (a few years ago, anyway) that the Tribal right includes sufficient habitat, which includes water, to support their fish and game needs. How would Pugetopolis respond to that? Needing to provide the rather urban area tribes with fish and game?

I believe that State will pretty much give them anything they want so long as the rest of the state can grow and develop. Then, at some point, we can pay them for lost resources or give them back the State. But, the folks who made that endgame possible by inaction/rolling over will be dead and gone.

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#997986 - 12/04/18 10:23 AM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Larry B]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
I just completed reading the lawsuit and the affidavit for search warrant. Unbelievable work by Detective Wendy Willette. Incredible detail, etc. Excellent job. The warrant is signed by a judge which should protect the officers, but you never know. I mean, O.J. Simpson was found not guilty. Fish Receiving Ticket information is vital to WDFW managers. It was my experience that FRT fraud, or under reporting was/is too common. Many years ago I charged a fish buyer, who was buying salmon on the Makah Res., with more than two hundred counts of failure to report (send in ) FRT in the time required by law. He had then strewn about the van he used. The most interesting aspect of the current case to me is that this is tribal members cheating tribal members. Did the tribal leadership do anything about this?

On one occasion another officer and I were sued with false arrest, false imprisonment, conversion, etc. The allegations were outrageous and not factual. So, I hired my own attorney, counter sued and won several thousand dollars. I hope the officers in this case, if they are named, do the same.

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#998000 - 12/04/18 12:00 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I seem to recall hearing of buyers who keep two sets of books. The face of the FRT showed something, the back (didn't copy through...) showed something else. Pay less fish tax, less fish count against shares, etc. This was on the NI side. Those folks who worked the buyers to collect data saw all sorts of stuff. I would say that there wasn't any side that was scrupulously honest in reporting every fish and where it was caught. Some of the stories were pretty funny, actually, except for how management got mucked up.

I used the reported numbers to manage the fisheries. Used them to update the runsize, update the allocations, schedule fisheries, determine (and make) payback. When folks complain about how poorly the fisheries are managed remember that management is based on the numbers. If you report [Bleeeeep!] numbers, expect [Bleeeeep!] management.

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#998025 - 12/04/18 03:06 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Tug 3]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Tug 3
The most interesting aspect of the current case to me is that this is tribal members cheating tribal members. Did the tribal leadership do anything about this?


Tug, I know this BS has a special place in your burn barrel due to your long honorable service in WDFW Enforcement. I can only imagine what this does to the already damaged morale in the ranks.

I do want to say, after reading the lawsuits, we are ALL "cheated".

What this amounts to is another example of the dual nation state we have here in WA.

I'm just sick of all the flagrant "UP YOURS" we get from the WDFW, the Commission and of course, the Tribes.

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#998044 - 12/04/18 07:47 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
Bay wolf,

You are right on, and continue to be so. We'll see how WDFW does as the months click by until budget time during legislature. I have a tough time having WDFW as my alma matre, so to speak, and have it just suck so badly as an agency. Other state agencies consider WDFW "THE" example of how an agency should NOT be run. I have friends in high places who have retired from Ecology, US Forest Service, Revenue, etc., who can't believe how badly WDFW does (not) do their job. It makes for great cocktail talk, but that's all. My answer to WDFW not acting on issues that they should act on is "See you in Legislature!" It aint gonna be pretty.

Really, all WDFW needs to do is follow the law and their legislative mandate. Simple as that. Get tough and let the chips fall where they may. Let the biologists do biology, let the cops do the law, and then let the Commission do the politics. Politics within the department are happening at way too low a level. Get rid of the Regional Managers and go to a straight line of responsibility leading back to the director. Regional managers actually have no line function, anyway. WDFW is way too top heavy administratively. Fire the administrators who have gotten this agency to where it is today - failing! Years ago WDFW had the FRT responsibility stripped from them because they were doing such a poor job of collecting the fish taxes. The tax responsibility now is a function of the Department of Revenue. The landings reported on the FRT are still very important, but as Carcassman opined, garbage in is garbage out. I question the accuracy of the reported landings on some critical stocks. Over all I don't think catches are accurately reported, and that's why many critical stocks continue to decline. Read Todd Vandivert's book, Operation Cody, to get a handle on WDFW's game management to get a good idea of how that WDFW division is being under reported, etc. Fish is worse.

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#998047 - 12/04/18 08:45 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It's a cesspool. Notice how many of the new hires come from out of state?

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#998060 - 12/05/18 07:56 AM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
bigb8bigfish Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/10/01
Posts: 300
Loc: seattle,wa
so as times change so we're going to do the same. now its going to be save the orcas and no more Columbus day. also think the bolt decision needs to also.
_________________________
"DO THE WILD THANG"

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#998067 - 12/05/18 08:38 AM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Before revisiting the Boldt Decision, consider that in Willapa Bay WDFW answers to no outside entities. No Tribes, no listed fish (but they're sho 'nuff workin' on it). Management there is how WDFW thinks anadromous fish should be managed.

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#998276 - 12/06/18 07:34 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
Just read in the latest issue of THE REEL NEWS, that many of the WDFW Commissioners don't even have a hunting or fishing license! Get the details as reported by John Kruse.

The several that don't own either should resign as soon as possible. Who the hell is leading this agency anyway?

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#998277 - 12/06/18 07:35 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
Just read in the latest issue of THE REEL NEWS, that many of the WDFW Commissioners don't even have a hunting or fishing license! Get the details as reported by John Kruse.

The several that don't own either should resign as soon as possible. Who the hell is leading this agency anyway?

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#998278 - 12/06/18 07:37 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Bay wolf]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
Sorry about the double entry.

Tug

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#998279 - 12/06/18 08:23 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: bigb8bigfish]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: bigb8bigfish
so as times change so we're going to do the same. now its going to be save the orcas and no more Columbus day. also think the bolt decision needs to also.


About time.....replace Johnny Come Lately Columbus with Leif Erikson! Some may not like history but at least get it right!!

Oh, yes, and certainly save the whales with increased Chinook releases and a reduction in pinnipeds (Hey, Gov, don't need more studies - just get it done - call your Senators).


Edited by Larry B (12/11/18 12:44 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#998280 - 12/06/18 08:29 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Tug 3]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Tug 3
Just read in the latest issue of THE REEL NEWS, that many of the WDFW Commissioners don't even have a hunting or fishing license! Get the details as reported by John Kruse.

The several that don't own either should resign as soon as possible. Who the hell is leading this agency anyway?


Makes me wonder about their support for license fee increases - as in, not goring their ox. It's all about credibility.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#998282 - 12/06/18 09:43 PM Re: As the dominoes fall...we continue to sleep. [Re: Tug 3]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Tug 3
Just read in the latest issue of THE REEL NEWS, that many of the WDFW Commissioners don't even have a hunting or fishing license! Get the details as reported by John Kruse.

The several that don't own either should resign as soon as possible. Who the hell is leading this agency anyway?


Who the hell indeed!!

Cronies like Ron Warren, Shisters like Mike Grosseman and incompetent overpaid “administrators”. Not to mention out of touch commissioners who pretend to listen to the stakeholders, all the while having intercourse with sovereign nationals!

I would say the swamp needs to be drained, but the tribes would have to give permission before that could happen. And, since they are perfectly happy with us being mired in the filth that is WDFW, that will never happen.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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