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#998912 - 12/17/18 04:59 PM 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/

December 17, 2018
Contact: Eric Kinne, 360-902-2418

Chinook fry lost after power outage at Minter Creek Hatchery

OLYMPIA – As many as 6.2 million chinook salmon fry died last weekend when a windstorm cut power to the Minter Creek Hatchery in Pierce County and the facility's backup generator failed.

The fry were in incubators at the Minter Creek Hatchery operated by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). The pump that supplies water to those incubators stopped working when both the main power and backup generator failed.

WDFW staff tried to start the generator and attempted to provide water to the incubators using other methods, but those efforts were largely unsuccessful, said Eric Kinne, WDFW hatchery division manager.

"This is a devastating loss," Kinne said. "The department is conducting an analysis to determine the root cause of what went wrong so that we can improve procedures at Minter Creek and our other hatcheries to help ensure this doesn't happen again."

An inventory of the fish lost includes:

4.2 million Deschutes fall chinook fry
1.5 million Minter Creek fall chinook fry
507,000 White River spring chinook fry

Kinne said the department was raising the White River spring chinook as part of the state's early efforts to provide more food for southern resident orcas, which are listed as endangered both federally and in Washington. The Deschutes and Minter Creek fall chinook were part of WDFW's ongoing hatchery operations that support state fisheries, not new production for orcas.

Other fish – including roughly 4.2 million chum salmon and 2 million coho salmon – being held at Minter Creek Hatchery survived the power outage.

WDFW is determining whether fish from other facilities can replace some of the fry lost at Minter Creek Hatchery, which is located in Gig Harbor. The chinook were scheduled for release in May or June 2019. Chinook typically return to their natal streams to spawn after three to five years in marine waters.

The department operates 80 hatcheries across Washington and raises approximately 68 million chinook annually.

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#998913 - 12/17/18 05:27 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
cobble cruiser Offline
~B-F-D~

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 2256
The cost of 6.2 million salmon fry resting on the odds of the generator starting... hmm. Way to go WDFW.... if that is really what happened of course.
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#998921 - 12/17/18 06:59 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Every hatchery has (is supposed to have) a backup emergency generator for when the power goes out. Hatcheries are located in generally remote places where the power does go out. Unless, of course, you have gravity-fed water which is pretty rare.

SOP requires that they test the generators on, I think, at least a monthly basis.

This loss of power is a risk that is supposed to be planned for.

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#998923 - 12/17/18 07:21 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Lifter99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 386
Another snafu by our "wonderful" WDFW.

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#998934 - 12/17/18 07:45 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Chasin' Baitman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 253
Would anyone be able to venture an educated guess as to what the avg cost to raise a hatchery Chinook is?

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#998937 - 12/17/18 07:54 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
This is totally unacceptable. I mean for god's sake, there is a Home depot on Swede hill outside of Gig harbor that's less than 10 minutes away, go buy another friggen Generator!

The ineptness, while astounding, is not unexpected.
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#998938 - 12/17/18 07:56 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Perfect. I look forward to paying my fair share in the next round license increases. I'm doing my part. Are you?

Preventative maintenance and disaster recovery are some of the first line items to go in any struggling org's budget. Why? "Because who needs to pay for it when we are never going to have an issue!". Upper management 101.

Ten dollars says the generator didn't even have any diesel in it and was last cranked over in 93'.
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#998943 - 12/17/18 08:58 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Sky-Guy]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
Originally Posted By: Sky-Guy
This is totally unacceptable. I mean for god's sake, there is a Home depot on Swede hill outside of Gig harbor that's less than 10 minutes away, go buy another friggen Generator!

The ineptness, while astounding, is not unexpected.


Seriously. . .I live 10 minutes away, and if I knew this was happening I would have taken MY generator over there. . .in such a rush it would have taken me only 8 minutes to have it there and up and running.

This absolutely sucks, those fish are my plan A and B.

fb
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#998944 - 12/17/18 09:14 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Tough loss and I am sure there will be more to come but I am a little confused about those White River Chinook.

I thought WDFW has been rearing those fish for years as part of the recovery effort for that run. That program was to switch to the Puyallup hatchery upon completion of renovations announced earlier this year. But wait, that announcement said that the hatchery would produce fish to improve tribal, recreational and NT commercial fishing in Puget Sound and up and down the coast.

Were they talking about the same fish now described as being raised for Orcas?

I wish there was a "head scratching" emoji.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#998946 - 12/17/18 09:35 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Larry B]
Steelheadman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 4214
Loc: Poulsbo, WA,USA
Article from Aug 2017, Minter Creek Hatchery

"The Minter Creek Hatchery is a 24/7 operation. Bissonnette or one of her colleagues is always on call in case of emergencies. In the winter, when the incubators are in full operation, a power outage with loss of continuous water flow and oxygen supply could decimate the eggs. The response time is just 15 minutes. The holding tanks are less sensitive, but the response time during the spring and fall is still less than an hour."
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#998947 - 12/17/18 09:51 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The hatchery generators I have seen are not "stick in your pickup and haul". They are rather large as the electrical needs at a hatchery are/were huge. Those are not tiny pumps, the freezers for food, and all the rest take a lot of power.

Does not excuse having a backup generator that is regularly tested and ready to go. With the advancements in weather forecasting they should have known this was at least a possibility and been well prepared (fire up the g'rator as a test).

To my knowledge, the WR fished raised at Minter were to support recovery. With the opening of the Tribal facility on the White it became less necessary. An interesting aspect is that, at least in the 2000-2010 range, yearlings from Minter survived at about the same rate a fingerlings from the Tribal hatchery. Something in the marine waters was killing them.

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#998950 - 12/17/18 11:21 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Something???

They don't have that problem in Norway as evidenced by the seal hides for sale at the fish market in Bergen.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#998951 - 12/17/18 11:34 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
The hatchery generators I have seen are not "stick in your pickup and haul". They are rather large as the electrical needs at a hatchery are/were huge. Those are not tiny pumps, the freezers for food, and all the rest take a lot of power.

Does not excuse having a backup generator that is regularly tested and ready to go. With the advancements in weather forecasting they should have known this was at least a possibility and been well prepared (fire up the g'rator as a test).

To my knowledge, the WR fished raised at Minter were to support recovery. With the opening of the Tribal facility on the White it became less necessary. An interesting aspect is that, at least in the 2000-2010 range, yearlings from Minter survived at about the same rate a fingerlings from the Tribal hatchery. Something in the marine waters was killing them.



I understand they had large gen sets to run the whole hatchery operation. But in an emergency I'm sure a 5 or 6kw could keep the pumps running and the fish alive until power could be restored.
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#998953 - 12/18/18 04:28 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Chum Man Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 2691
Loc: Yelmish
well, there goes the budd inlet fishery in a couple years.

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#998954 - 12/18/18 06:43 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
BW Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
Hatchery had an emergency generator but it failed also. They tried pumping water using a fire hose into the tanks but could not keep up. They did the best they could guys.


Edited by BW (12/18/18 07:11 AM)
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#998955 - 12/18/18 06:48 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Knowing many of the folks who work in hatcheries, they did the best they could with the tools provided. Things may have changed since I left but those folks are (were) direct lineal descendants of the Seabees.


Edited by Carcassman (12/18/18 06:48 AM)

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#998956 - 12/18/18 06:54 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The survival problem for Chinook was that the fingerlings didn't make it at all. The yearlings, as with all yearling smolts that leave deep SS, got hammered. Maybe seals. But, how does the burgeoning seal population explain that the deep SS Searuns are doing just fine, and they are there all year (as are the seals)? Maybe it is particular seals in Tacoma Narrows. Maybe it's an expanding Lincod population in the Narrows. It was expanding when this first began. Maybe it's the expanding harbor Porpoise. I dunno, but we have to look at what is working and why to understand what isn't.

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#998958 - 12/18/18 07:38 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
TanTastic84 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 182
Loc: Seattle, WA
I am not one to complain and I understand the WDFW has a thankless job on their hands, but this is quite ridiculous!

To me, this smells like a way for the folks at the hatcheries to grab a chunk of that check that hasn't been written to upgrade their facilities. As I have gotten older, I find it harder and harder to believe in coincidence.

All I can say about this situation is, it is embarrassing for WDFW. Especially given the current news headlines. This could have been prevented with simple safety steps (which are likely already supposed to be part of their standard processes) should have been taken to make sure all equipment was in working order.

"Take care of your gear, your gear'll take care of you."

6.2 million fish lost. Shame on the Minter Creek facility. An absolute embarrassment.


Edited by TanTastic84 (12/18/18 07:50 AM)

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#998959 - 12/18/18 07:43 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As has been noted before (often) maintenance is regularly deferred/postponed due "lack of funds". Whether one agrees with WDFW's priorities (often as mandated by the Leg, Courts, etc) they simply don't have the money to do it all.

This situation was, I believe, preventable but the cost would have been some other work, somewhere, on some other resource.

I would hope that the investigation is complete and made public with the public being given the opportunity to ask for and receive answers. But, since these are the folks that brought us NOF.........

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#998960 - 12/18/18 07:55 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
TanTastic84 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 182
Loc: Seattle, WA
Carcassman, I agree to a point. I understand about "lack of funds". But, simple safety checks of equipment is a non cost.

If you're in a rush, you're still putting on your seat belt.

If you're facing a photo finish at the urinal, you're still pulling your fly down.

See what I mean? We all hate maintenance times but we all do it so our stuff works when we need it to. If the folk at Minter would have taken their safety steps and checked this essential equipment a month ago, I assure you this critical piece of equipment would have been repaired or replaced.

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#998961 - 12/18/18 07:58 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
TanTastic84 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 182
Loc: Seattle, WA
The worst part of this whole thing is that the Minter creek facility had over 10,000 fall fish return to it this year! That's a heck of a lot of fish from this facility that made it past all the struggles out in the ocean only to return to be flushed down the drain.

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#998962 - 12/18/18 08:03 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: TanTastic84]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: TanTastic84
Carcassman, I agree to a point. I understand about "lack of funds". But, simple safety checks of equipment is a non cost.

If you're in a rush, you're still putting on your seat belt.

If you're facing a photo finish at the urinal, you're still pulling your fly down.

See what I mean? We all hate maintenance times but we all do it so our stuff works when we need it to. If the folk at Minter would have taken their safety steps and checked this essential equipment a month ago, I assure you this critical piece of equipment would have been repaired or replaced.


In all fairness to the Minter Creek folks and WDFW in general I am going to wait until a report is made public before I come to conclusions about who did or did not do what should have been done and when.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#998964 - 12/18/18 08:15 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
What a disaster. Seems a malfunctioning pump or filter is always to blame when we get a big hatchery die-off. In the end, this is just one more example of how hatcheries are hugely expensive, dreadfully inefficient, and hopelessly ineffective when compared to functioning, wild habitats. Wild salmon don't die when the power goes out, because nature's ingenious, gravity-fed, self-repleneshing system keeps cool, clean water running over their gills... For free!

Let's close the ocean and turn our rivers back into the state of the art hatcheries they were long before we decided we somehow knew better. That's how you improve Puget Sound fisheries and save the orcas (and the salmon, if anyone cares).

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#998967 - 12/18/18 08:30 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
I agree Flea Flicker. Habitat doesnt suffer from power outages.
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#998980 - 12/18/18 11:20 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
No habitat suffers from floods, droughts, and development. A hatchery is significantly more efficient at converting a given amount of water to adult fish. If you want lots and lots of fish to kill, support hatcheries.

If you want lots of wild fish, support habitat. One or the other.

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#998982 - 12/18/18 11:37 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
No habitat suffers from floods, droughts, and development. A hatchery is significantly more efficient at converting a given amount of water to adult fish. If you want lots and lots of fish to kill, support hatcheries.

If you want lots of wild fish, support habitat. One or the other.


Where's that "like" button!! I will add that in today's environment we should also recognize that the fish our license dollars produce in our hatcheries also serve other purposes; some good and others not so good.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#998987 - 12/18/18 12:26 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Larry B]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Larry B


In all fairness to the Minter Creek folks and WDFW in general I am going to wait until a report is made public before I come to conclusions about who did or did not do what should have been done and when.


MMMMMM, you must live in a bubble world....there are numerous examples of where WDFW personnel have chosen not to make things public.

PDR's, personal document requests. have taken away the ability of WDFW and other State Departments to hide from the public.

I did the PDR bit on something I wanted information on, 6 - 7 months of thousands of documents from all over the State on questions that I wanted on the Chehalis and rivers that flowed into the Chehalis and a person that the department called a "reliable source"...….bottom line unless I wanted to get a lawyer and go to court, I might get the answers.....I chose not to do that BUT others have done the lawyer and court bit and WDFW have had to pay when they lost in court. WDFW is a State agency and as such needs to be more open to the general public....IMO

Simple way to make hatchery personnel accountable.....Sheet of paper, taped to wall close to generator, date machine was checked and then name signed by person who did the checking.....would be easy to check on...…..might stop a loss of fish in the future????
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#998998 - 12/18/18 01:15 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: DrifterWA]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: DrifterWA
Originally Posted By: Larry B


In all fairness to the Minter Creek folks and WDFW in general I am going to wait until a report is made public before I come to conclusions about who did or did not do what should have been done and when.


MMMMMM, you must live in a bubble world....there are numerous examples of where WDFW personnel have chosen not to make things public.

PDR's, personal document requests. have taken away the ability of WDFW and other State Departments to hide from the public.

I did the PDR bit on something I wanted information on, 6 - 7 months of thousands of documents from all over the State on questions that I wanted on the Chehalis and rivers that flowed into the Chehalis and a person that the department called a "reliable source"...….bottom line unless I wanted to get a lawyer and go to court, I might get the answers.....I chose not to do that BUT others have done the lawyer and court bit and WDFW have had to pay when they lost in court. WDFW is a State agency and as such needs to be more open to the general public....IMO

Simple way to make hatchery personnel accountable.....Sheet of paper, taped to wall close to generator, date machine was checked and then name signed by person who did the checking.....would be easy to check on...…..might stop a loss of fish in the future????


Drifter, nothing there with which I disagree. They (WDFW) and their employees should be more open and accountable to the public.

As to a check sheet to document when basic maintenance was accomplished and the generator run up is a great idea. In fact, they may have that in place; I simply don't know and am withholding criticism until more facts are presented. If WDFW doesn't come up with a timely report they will be reasonably subject to criticism just as they were with the lost/miscounted Cowlitz summer run steelhead a couple of years ago. First, that situation was kept below the horizon and once it became widely known there was a great deal of B.S. from the former regional director. I would like to believe they learned from that.....
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#999032 - 12/18/18 08:29 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
cohobankie Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 194
Did I read this correct two generators failed?

Imagine if my hospital had two back up generators fail? We test the generators every month, we test our emergency defibrillators twice daily.

If they tested their generators regularly, had fresh gas, carbs drained after use, hell just fired them up once a week and ran them dry they wouldn't be in this situation would they.

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#999033 - 12/18/18 08:52 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: cohobankie]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
Originally Posted By: cohobankie
Did I read this correct two generators failed?

Imagine if my hospital had two back up generators fail? We test the generators every month, we test our emergency defibrillators twice daily.

If they tested their generators regularly, had fresh gas, carbs drained after use, hell just fired them up once a week and ran them dry they wouldn't be in this situation would they.


Been following this thread since this little disaster unfolded and some of the posts really make me smile! Defer maintenance due to lack of funding? Come on.... Why install backup units in the first place? Accountability? Are you serious? IMHO heads should roll on this one! Having worked in the electrical industry for 35+ years and installing huge backup units in hospitals, high rise buildings and computer centers there were protocols for testing on some units on a weekly, bi-monthly or monthly basis! Record keeping was meticuloss and I'm wondering tonight what caused this catastrophic failure? Battery maintenance, low oil, faulty electronic monitoring units! Some of this gear is so sensitive it can see/sense a "hiccup" coming down the line in about 1/60th of a second! I thought it might have been old gear but watching KIRO at 5PM tonight at the hatchery it was a new unit probably not maintained properly! FYI the hatchery spokesman said the unit had been started and tested in October? Question: Early October or late October? 45-60 days without running this unit left me speechless! Can't wait for the "report" and curious as to what actions if any will be taken! SMH.......

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#999037 - 12/18/18 09:52 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It seems to me that in addition to "routine" testing (monthly, all 12) that any time wind is forecast at greater than x MPH (40?) the unit is started up and tested.

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#999041 - 12/18/18 10:38 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
It seems to me that in addition to "routine" testing (monthly, all 12) that any time wind is forecast at greater than x MPH (40?) the unit is started up and tested.


The first questions should be (1) whether WDFW has a standard testing protocol to include actions to be taken prior to a forthcoming storm and (2) whether the folks at Minter Creek were in compliance.

At home when a hard freeze is predicted the hose bibs get covered. When a wind storm is predicted stuff that might blow around is put away or tied down and the vehicles are parked away from our trees. It is a matter of what a reasonable person would do.

I sincerely hope that this turns out to have been an unavoidable event.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#999050 - 12/19/18 07:34 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
After all the bashing is complete, fact finding and fireing is done, changes made to operations etc.
Looking ahead Can these fish be replaced or is this a total loss? Can some accumulation from other facilities make some of this up? I know little about Chinook transferring. Other WA facilities have surplus? Oregon? California? Alaska? Looks like the Orca $$$ will be there. Will any Chinook from anywhere work?
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#999054 - 12/19/18 07:56 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: RUNnGUN]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
After all the bashing is complete, fact finding and fireing is done, changes made to operations etc.
Looking ahead Can these fish be replaced or is this a total loss? Can some accumulation from other facilities make some of this up? I know little about Chinook transferring. Other WA facilities have surplus? Oregon? California? Alaska? Looks like the Orca $$$ will be there. Will any Chinook from anywhere work?


My understanding is that those fish being reared at Minter would have been transferred to the river basin of origin and held there for several weeks for imprinting prior to release.

The HGMP currently constrains movement of fish from one river basin to another - that genetics thing.

White River springers are also being reared in a tribal hatchery and there is some natural spawning going on for that run. I believe I heard that Staff was assessing whether there are excess eggs/fry at other facilities for the other two stocks. If so, they could possibly go to Minter Creek.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#999075 - 12/19/18 11:59 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: OLD FB]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 14486
Loc: Tuleville
Originally Posted By: OLD FB
heads should roll on this one!


Agreed.

I was fortunate enough to be visited by a former WDFW Commissioner yesterday and I brought this to attention. Needless to say, he was floored and more importantly, pissed! He was already on his phone making some calls as he left my office. Too bad this retired Commissioner can't do much other than get the ear of a past governor.

He agreed that heads should roll, starting with the one on the top, being the Director of WDFW.

There really is NO valid excuse for this mishap.
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#999082 - 12/19/18 12:29 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Steeldrifter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 176
Loc: Pierce county
With everything else going on in Washington state for us sports fisherman this is a real kick in the nuts...........

Not sure on the validity of the following information but I received this from a previous co-worker that retired some years ago. I am just curious if anyone else can validate this or not?

Here is what I received.

"Maybe this would be a good time for the hatcheries on Lake Michigan to repay for the six million or so Chinook salmon minter creek hatchery in the early seventies sent there to create a fishery. There was a sign out in front of Minter in the water back then, saying proud they could do it. I fished there, I seen it!"

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#999083 - 12/19/18 01:01 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Hatcheries don't take "extra" eggs just because. Hatchery operations are so tightly regulated that there may be a few thousand, maybe a fews tens of, extra. Normally, this is to cover unexpected incubation mortality.

There are generally strict controls on where eggs and fish can be moved to based on fish health/pathogen concerns. Pretty much if the eggs are on surface water they can't be moved. As with all rules, they can be overridden.

I would lean towards the case that there aren't many eggs to move around.

If those eggs in The Great Lakes are on pathogen free water and if they can provide excellent and detailed pathogen history, then maybe they could be sent back. But, these fish would have been entirely resident, not migrating very far, and would probably bring some really weird genetics and behaviors back.

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#999101 - 12/19/18 05:20 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Sometimes in times of need rules need to be broken
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#999109 - 12/19/18 06:42 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: RUNnGUN]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
This incident makes a good case for the building of the Deschutes Hatchery in the next biennium. The eggs that were lost were from Deschutes Chinook which produces a good survival and contribution rate. They feed Orcas from Neah Bay as far south as the whales want to come, and they provide sport fishing and tribal fishing throughout. The South Sound management of our salmon has been a mess for years, but despite this, the Deschutes has had good returns for years. The City of Tumwater has given WDFW property at its Pioneer Park for the construction of a visitor friendly parklike setting, like all our hatcheries should be. Procrastination and stupidity by WDFW leadership has prevented the hatchery being built so far. Maybe this year? The Squaxin Island Tribe is all for building this project. We'll see what the governor's budget has to say about it.

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#999118 - 12/19/18 08:12 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
This saga has been going on for decades. I was involved in design, water acquisition and such and that had to be before the turn of the century. Simply criminal that it has taken so long.

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#999121 - 12/19/18 08:56 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
Any info forthcoming tonight outside of the WDFW website reporting? Went searching today for regular maintenance on emergency backup supply requirements and as I stated last night weekly, monthly and annual maintenance are the norm! KIRO news reported last night from a hatchery spokesman last "regular" maintenance was performed in October........Early or late October is still 45-60+ days way past the due date! Shame On You WDFW!

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#999126 - 12/19/18 10:38 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: OLD FB]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Originally Posted By: OLD FB
Any info forthcoming tonight outside of the WDFW website reporting? Went searching today for regular maintenance on emergency backup supply requirements and as I stated last night weekly, monthly and annual maintenance are the norm! KIRO news reported last night from a hatchery spokesman last "regular" maintenance was performed in October........Early or late October is still 45-60+ days way past the due date! Shame On You WDFW!


Told ya! Preventative maintenance is the first to go. Always. Upper Management is last to go. Always.

WDFW's tag line should be "No Diesel".
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#999127 - 12/19/18 10:47 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: OLD FB]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: OLD FB
October........Early or late October is still 45-60+ days way past the due date! Shame On You WDFW!



I agree.....also IMO heads should roll, no way this get "shoved under the rug", 6.2 million fish, wasted, never get a chance to do what could have helped feed orcas, given sports hundreds of hours of recreation time, allowed the non-fishing population salmon for eating, salmon for tribal fishing rights.


Heads that roll should not be the person, at the bottom of the ladder....someone just didn't have the overall hatchery/fish, in the day to day operation of this hatchery. "The buck stops here"......
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#999237 - 12/20/18 08:22 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Jason Beezuz Offline
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Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3440
Loc: PNW
Is it too much to have a “hatchery manager” who understands logical order and big picture critical failures and assuring they never happen?
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#999238 - 12/20/18 08:30 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Rivers don't fail when the power goes out. Just sayin'... (again).

No matter how many tests you run, there is no way to ensure equipment like this won't fail when it's needed. As has been said, $hit happens.

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#999243 - 12/20/18 09:19 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4393
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

A thing like this would never happen at a commercial facility or you go broke, just sayin.
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#999253 - 12/21/18 07:40 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Not so sure about that Rivrguy. Seen a number of businesses run themselves in bankruptcy by making sure that dividends were paid ahead of maintenance. I know what you mean about accountability (and lack of in some places we might be familiar with) but there are enough examples of "feed the stockholders first".

This is, in my experience, a very rare event. Folks, both staff and volunteers, have and will go to great lengths and risks to keep fish and eggs alive. You've been there. I agree that this situation was (probably) avoidable; the investigation might show that. In my view, the overriding cause was lack of (in no particular order) maintenance, testing, and training. But, we know that all things mechanical can and do break even when well maintained.

I am afraid that the investigation will show something like Challenger; the real folks responsible won't be held accountable while the staff onboard...

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#999268 - 12/21/18 09:50 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4393
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I doubt that how this played out will ever be fully understood as that seldom happens with government agencies, CYA model. To the point which is failure is an acceptable outcome for agencies. Nothing new here on that one and frankly it is likely a WDF&W process driven event.


Edited by Rivrguy (12/21/18 09:50 AM)
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#999270 - 12/21/18 10:08 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Elijah Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 51
My prediction is that no one in the government will get fired over this huge mistake and the incompetency will continue. This mistake of killing 6.2 million chinook valued at over 10 million dollars should result in several people in the government getting fired. If it were the private sector I can guarantee that there would be many folks getting fired but the WDFW does not have to answer to anyone so they continue to produce an inferior product. Hatcheries should be privatized and contracted out to run efficiently and generate the best possible outcome. As a commercial fisherman and a fly fisherman, I feel that James Losee should probably resign.

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#999562 - 12/24/18 09:38 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
The neat thing about government is they can hide mistakes in the wrinkles of their own fat ass.

Pathetic.

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#999566 - 12/24/18 11:30 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
I think that WDFW must be following the Sears/K-Mart business model plan. Their downward trend is about the same time span. Both have failed to follow what their customers want. There's a basic question here: Is WDFW a service agency or a regulatory agency, or do they even know?

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#999572 - 12/24/18 12:24 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Elijah]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 14486
Loc: Tuleville
Originally Posted By: Elijah
My prediction is that no one in the government will get fired over this


Why would they, as this is not a government operated hatchery?

You and Stam need to get together. You can sit and lump anyone who works for the state, city, county, or Feds as "government".

Damn all you "government" workers!!!!!!

Now, I will concur and say your probably right in your prediction that no state employee will get fired over this.

PS. The other one I love, when interacting with the un-educated public, is:

"Damn all those fish-bios. What the hell do they know? They are ruining our fisheries!"

Cracks me the hell up.

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#999583 - 12/24/18 02:47 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
When did Minter stop being a gubmint operated facility?

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#999584 - 12/24/18 03:00 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
When did Minter stop being a gubmint operated facility?


You beat me to that question. Is there some form of identity crisis warping the universe?
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#999587 - 12/24/18 03:59 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The universe is getting awfully warped, that's for sure. I sure spent a boatload of time either at Minter or doing stuff to support it.

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#999592 - 12/24/18 06:34 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
stonefish Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
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#999595 - 12/24/18 09:28 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: stonefish]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Christmas eve and that info brings out the cynic in me. Those fish were described as being excess at their hatcheries of origin but what does that mean?

If they would have been destroyed then this is good news. If they would have been reared and released anyway then transferring them to Minter is not a net increase but may have other benefits.

And now for the rest of the story (if anyone knows).
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#999599 - 12/24/18 11:41 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: The Moderator]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
Originally Posted By: elparquito
Originally Posted By: Elijah
My prediction is that no one in the government will get fired over this


Why would they, as this is not a government operated hatchery?



Tell us, oh educated one. . .what non-public entity runs it then?

fb
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#999612 - 12/25/18 03:37 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Elijah Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 51
This site is full of posts from anti hatchery folks. Those who support hatchery fish need to speak up and not let the minority speak for you. Otherwise you will have nothing left over to fish on but wild catch and release. That is the hidden agenda of the more outspoken posters on this site which is anti hatchery in nature. They would be happy to have all rivers cnr for wild fish only and buy farm raised salmon in the grocery stores or commercial/tribal caught fish. There are many on here that cannot afford to buy salmon in the grocery stores at 6 to 9 dollars a pound but can catch one in the river and take our kids out for a day in nature.


Edited by Elijah (12/25/18 03:39 PM)

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#999613 - 12/25/18 03:44 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Elijah Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 51
Oh, and you have had one to many margaritas if you believe that minter is not a government ruin facility. What Kool aid have you been drinking. Your post just shows how ignorant you and your views really are. Very out of touch and typical to spread lies with completely false statements.

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#999623 - 12/26/18 07:18 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Elijah]
Tug 3 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 260
Loc: Tumwater
Nice to see that WDFW came up with a couple million "extra" Chinook fry to compensate for the loss??? Wonder where those fish came from? Actually, I'm pleased that they were able to do this, but it flies in the face of their out of basin policy transfer, etc. It just underlines the fact that most Puget Sound Chinook stocks are an out of basin mongrel stocks, a hodge podge of genetics that are likely well suited for their environment. After all, they keep coming back. There's no reason not to let the hatchery kings on the spawning beds, especially if we want recovery.

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#999624 - 12/26/18 07:37 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Another aspect of the transfer is that Tribal approval is needed. There are 3 Tribes that fish 13A, Minter's terminal area. Did the fish come from hatcheries in their U&A or from another Tribe's U&A. What agreements were made to have them "give up" harvest?

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#999634 - 12/26/18 11:19 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Tug 3]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Originally Posted By: Tug 3
Nice to see that WDFW came up with a couple million "extra" Chinook fry to compensate for the loss??? Wonder where those fish came from? Actually, I'm pleased that they were able to do this, but it flies in the face of their out of basin policy transfer, etc. It just underlines the fact that most Puget Sound Chinook stocks are an out of basin mongrel stocks, a hodge podge of genetics that are likely well suited for their environment. After all, they keep coming back. There's no reason not to let the hatchery kings on the spawning beds, especially if we want recovery.


Tug,

Unless things have changed markedly, hatcheries typically take excess eggs if they receive more than the minimum number of broodstock required for their production goals. The reason has always been that losses during the egg to ponded fry stage could be higher than normally experienced, and the excess eggs would cover, or help cover, the loss. So if six hatcheries had extra eggs, or sac fry at this stage of development, then 2.75 million fry surplus to those hatcheries needs is a good partial buffer for offsetting the loss at Minter.

As for the mongrel hodge podge stock, don't fret. PS hatchery fall Chinook are likely somewhere in the range of being 99% pure Green River hatchery stock. The salmon hatchery at Sooes Creek on the Green River is one of the oldest in the state and in PS. So whenever a new PS hatchery was built, instead of capturing native broodstock from within the watershed of the new hatchery, the easiest way to start was to simply import some eyed eggs that were surplus to the needs at Sooes Creek, and start of new hatchery fall Chinook run on the river getting the new hatchery. So moving eggs or fry from one PS hatchery to another doesn't upset the "balance of nature" very much at all.

Before ESA, letting surplus returns of hatchery fish spawn naturally was SOP. Now with ESA WDFW has to limit the % of hatchery origin spawners (HOS) that spawn naturally with the "wild" Chinook in that river, even when most of those wild Chinook are progeny of the previous generation of HOS.

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#999635 - 12/26/18 11:19 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Another aspect of the transfer is that Tribal approval is needed. There are 3 Tribes that fish 13A, Minter's terminal area. Did the fish come from hatcheries in their U&A or from another Tribe's U&A. What agreements were made to have them "give up" harvest?


If there are out of basin transfers occurring then what is NOAA/NMFS's official position?

And the yet unanswered question is whether these fry were going to be destroyed as excess and are now re-purposed? Or are they simply donations from fish otherwise to be reared and released and thereby not actually representing a net increase/replacement for lost Minter fish?

Also, today's News Tribune reports that "Up to 2.75 million fall chinook fry will be taken from six other state hatcheries for release from Minter Creek and Tumwater Falls in May and June." State hatcheries or hatcheries within the State? More details would be nice.

That same article reported that "Officials said the loss of spring chinook was particularly painful because they were meant to help feed the dwindling population of southern resident orcas, which are endangered." Okay, if White River springers are no longer being reared as part of a recovery effort for that run then why not have a recreational season on them in the terminal area? And if being reared for Orcas then maybe ramp up that production!
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#999636 - 12/26/18 12:02 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Salmo g.]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.

Before ESA, letting surplus returns of hatchery fish spawn naturally was SOP. Now with ESA WDFW has to limit the % of hatchery origin spawners (HOS) that spawn naturally with the "wild" Chinook in that river, even when most of those wild Chinook are progeny of the previous generation of HOS.


Sounds just like the scenario with wild LCR tules and wild Willapa/Naselle chinook. That we have any measurable production from the gravel is an artifact of a constant artificial infusion of HOS.

What's interesting to me is NOAA's apparent concern for minimizing pHOS in rivers where the state runs the hatcheries... yet they have MUCH less concern about the tribal hatchery program to recover Snake River fall chinook.

So far, the tribal model on the Snake seems to have the upper hand in chinook recovery when compared to PS chinook and LCR tules.

AHFMD??? Maybe.... maybe not?
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#999664 - 12/26/18 07:30 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Elijah Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 51
That would be because the tribes do not have to mate randomly and can choose the best fish to spawn. Ever fish the queets/salmon and seen the health of the tribal fish? They have good runs even when the state is claiming poor ocean conditions which is always thier excuse for poor returns. Those tribal fish are very different fish than the chambers creek WDFW diluted gene turds that are forced to spawn randomly.

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#999982 - 12/31/18 10:14 AM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
So many have it all figured out.

Meanwhile the ratio of hatchery to wild fish plummets.

Obviously the predators now target the wild stocks.

Plant fish in every ditch.

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#999998 - 12/31/18 02:44 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Elijah]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: Elijah
That would be because the tribes do not have to mate randomly and can choose the best fish to spawn. Ever fish the queets/salmon and seen the health of the tribal fish? They have good runs even when the state is claiming poor ocean conditions which is always thier excuse for poor returns. Those tribal fish are very different fish than the chambers creek WDFW diluted gene turds that are forced to spawn randomly.

Haved fished there lots over the years and have to say the quality has gone way up since the selective brood program started. They breed nothing smaller than 15#. But it has had it's problems. Last year the lower Quinault closed early for all fishers because returns were poor. Verdict still out for this year. I remember reading how selective summer run breeding at the Skamainia hatchery almost killed the Washougal summer Steelhead run. Produced some brutes though and they would tear you a new one when you hooked em. Can't think of any other examples other than rules of why not to selective breed. Maybe some Bio's have some science to add.


Edited by RUNnGUN (12/31/18 02:55 PM)
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#1000002 - 12/31/18 04:27 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Lifter99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 386
RUNnGUN, I remember one year ( I can't remember the exact year) the Quinault released their steelhead smolts from their hatchery on Lake Quinault. The problem was that they had a disease problem with the smolts. Instead of destroying them, they decided to plant them anyway in hopes of getting as many back as they could. Do you remember that and what year it was? Last year's poor return might have been the adults from that plant.

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#1000005 - 12/31/18 07:00 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Lifter99]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Lifter99
RUNnGUN, I remember one year ( I can't remember the exact year) the Quinault released their steelhead smolts from their hatchery on Lake Quinault. The problem was that they had a disease problem with the smolts. Instead of destroying them, they decided to plant them anyway in hopes of getting as many back as they could. Do you remember that and what year it was? Last year's poor return might have been the adults from that plant.


I remember that happening but I think it was a lot further back than to have "last year return" affected by that....but as to the exact year, just can't do that.
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#1000006 - 12/31/18 07:25 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
Lifter99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 386
Thanks Drifter. I just can't remember the year but It might have been further back like you said.

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#1000082 - 01/02/19 01:26 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
I don't remember either. More than a year or two out any more everything runs together and confusion sets in. I checked my diaries and found no details. They didn't used to have a rearing facility on the lake, only a collection facility, but they do dump smolt in there. The only rearing was done at Cook Crk. and the Salmon. I think any more the Salmon hatchery only rears Salmon, and Cook rears the Steelhead for distribution. But I could be wrong cause things change and it's been a few years since I've been in the know.
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#1000191 - 01/03/19 01:59 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: RUNnGUN]
Elijah Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 51
Not breeding any fish under 15 can also result in problems because you then effectively exclude the two salt fish. The best would be to artificially select the largest and most healthiest fish from each years returns. Not hard to do these days with scale samples. Only problem is that the department is too lazy to do it. There are other means of artificially selecting also that would require less work. Using native broodstock is one of the easiest if there are adequate numbers of wild fish for that. But there are also other cost-effective methods not being employed.


Edited by Elijah (01/04/19 07:31 PM)

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#1001065 - 01/15/19 12:20 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
Coming up on the one month point after the power failure and was wondering if any news is out there regarding a report from WDFW?

TIA

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#1001113 - 01/15/19 08:46 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
What incident report? You mean the one over there under the rug?

Promotions all around everybody!
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#1001114 - 01/15/19 09:33 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: NickD90]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
Originally Posted By: NickD90
What incident report? You mean the one over there under the rug?

Promotions all around everybody!


Exactly that one that I "hoped" might be finished in a timely manner :-/ Guess it's broom meet the dust pan as usual...

Might give Minter and Eric Kinne a call (360) 902-2418 in the AM to see what the holdup might be> Stay tuned!

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#1001233 - 01/16/19 04:41 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: bushbear]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
OK, it been a month.....


""This is a devastating loss," Kinne said. "The department is conducting an analysis to determine the root cause of what went wrong so that we can improve procedures at Minter Creek and our other hatcheries to help ensure this doesn't happen again."

1. Well, is this a cover up or is there going to be a "analysis to find the root cause of what went wrong"???????

2. What would a guess at the cost to rise 6.2 million salmon, to fry size ????

To include: labor, water, feed, electrical costs, and other related costs...

Just wondering...
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#1003197 - 02/11/19 12:16 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: DrifterWA]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
The director said the the incident is being investigated and they hired a outside source.
Minter Creek is a great example of what Puget Sound could be. There are hundreds of Creeks that could be planted with hatchery fish that have out migration but no longer have successful spawning on average years. Plant every species of salmonids in them! Use volunteers similar to the Salmon in the Classroom program. It seems so simple?

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#1003223 - 02/11/19 04:39 PM Re: 6.2 million Chinook lost at Minter Creek [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
The director said the the incident is being investigated and they hired a outside source.
Minter Creek is a great example of what Puget Sound could be. There are hundreds of Creeks that could be planted with hatchery fish that have out migration but no longer have successful spawning on average years. Plant every species of salmonids in them! Use volunteers similar to the Salmon in the Classroom program. It seems so simple?


There are sportfishing organizations that would like to participate in salmon propagation efforts to include floating hatchery rearing facilities and egg boxes. It seems that WDFW is so decentralized that there is no one currently and officially designated as the "go to" person to facilitate those volunteers. If WDFW is serious about getting more fish reared and released and use volunteers in so doing (cost effectiveness) then they need to have the proverbial one belly button to push.

Hello WDFW - we've been knocking on the door......
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