Um...... ?

CM, I was thinking the same thing concerning the rain we have had. There used to be great steelhead fishing in the Nisqually until that ended because the tribe overfished it many years ago. The river had one of the best runs of wild steelhead at one time until the State closed it to fishing for steelhead many years ago. I remember tribal gillnetters fished even after the tribe and the State had closed it. WDFW Enforcement were involved in the investigation at the time. Probably you and/or Tug 3 remember that.

Yes there was.............

Hopefully they didn't/don't decimate the chum run.

Lifter99, I don't know if it's fair to say the tribe over fished the Steelhead runs and that they caused the collapse. I think you could easily blame both sides. I fished it prior to the word getting out and yes, the fishing was very good. However, WDFW didn't want to keep it a secret so they put the word out about how healthy the wild run was and had it open for fishing and KILLING two wild fish right till the end of April, one of the few rivers open that late. It went from a very quite river with very little sportfishing pressure, to a very busy river with lots of pressure and lots of killing. I think both user groups just took way too many fish. As one posters tag line reads........................dead fish don't spawn.

fishbreath, the last few years it was open to sport fishing, only one wild steelhead could be kept. The tribe couldn't control their own fishermen and so WDFW enforcement was in on the investigation.

Looks like Bill Herzog doesn't agree with you Lifter99 on who was to blame for the Nisqually steel-head crashing.




http://www.wildsteelheaders.org/oooh-ooh-that-smell/

BW, Bill is a very knowledgeble individual. Yes, fishing was excellent. But he didn't mention that it did go to one wild steelhead/day in the last few years before the c/r season. The tribe did continue to net after it had been closed by the tribe and the State. Back in those days the State could close a fishery to all fishing (both tribal and sport) if there was a conservation consideration. Nowadays, WDFW doesn't seem to have that power.

Did you read it very closely? Sportsman killing lots of hens, when the ratio of bucks to hens favored hens by a large margin. And little tribal interest in netting. The point is according to his article, you are over emphasizing the tribal netting.

And just to add a bit more info. I fished it on the Military side below Muck Creek almost all the way down to the handicap launch, there was a road that few knew about that followed the river and ended up around I believe it was called Hillside Creek. Anyway, once the river was closed for the tribe, usually in January or February, you would see some illegal netting but really not that much. I highly doubt the few that were fishing took anywhere near the numbers that they did take during their open season. Yes there was illegal fishing but tally up the total number of fish taken by both parties and that's where the blame lies. And the Nisqually was a very strange river for Steelhead as the hens to buck ratio was way out of wack. It was an oddity when we managed to get a buck.

BW, If Bill's estimation that five thousand fish were caught by sportsmen then how many were caught by the tribe? It would be interesting to know the total numbers(both tribal and sport) that were caught. Yes, there were a preponderance of hens. Yes, everybody( tribal and recs) caught a lot of fish(and hens). Maybe too many fish. But the tribe continued to fish after it was closed to all. Why, if there was so little interest by the tribe in netting? My understanding is that there is a permanent closure for sport steelhead fishing on the Nisqually. BTW the numbers of wild steelhead have rebounded significantly (similar to the Skagit) I don't know if the tribe has a subsistence/ceremonial fishery for steelhead now. I am not over emphasizing tribal netting. I have a problem with fishing after a fishery is closed whether it be by tribal members or sportfisherman.

The claim was that when it was open to fishing back in the day, there was little interest from the tribe. So the claim is there never was much tribal netting of steelhead on the Nisqually.

The steelhead are an example of how stopping hatchery production does not result in an increase in wild production to recovery and fishable levels. All of you who think that stopping hatchery production will bring back the native fish to fishable levels are ignorant. The Nisqually steelhead are a prime example of what you get when you stop hatchery production. Keep it going and we will not have any fishing in this state for all of you hatchery haters (i.e. Fly Fishermen).

Ask Tug3 about how interested the Tribe was in steelhead back before the crash. And, just to pick nits, when steelhead collapsed the agencies were separate; it was WDW managing steelies.

If I recall correctly, they stopped planting hatchery steelhead in the Nisqually in the early 80's, so almost a decade before it closed to steelhead fishing in 1993.
Closing fishing hasn't brought back wild fish either, regardless of whether hatchery fish were planted or not.

Since when did all fly fisherman hate hatchery fish?
SF

I don't think that the Nisqually was planted very long or with a lot of hatchery fish.

That was my recollection as well.
It received some but not a lot.
SF

For the longest time it was the prime example that wild steelhead and wild chum could exist, support fisheries, and not need hatcheries.

I started fishing it in 79 or 80 and at that time there were no winter run plants, all wild fish and quite a few of them. I later found out about a yearly plant of summer run up by the Mashel that only a hand full of us knew about. It wasn't a great run but it was a fun run that on some years ended up being pretty productive.

Also as I recall, the official sport catch, according to punch card data and the factor number they used to come up with the totals, seems to me it was around 1,200 fish. Bill's estimate of 5,000 seems way high! The fishing was good but not that good. A normal day in February or March for me was hooking 3-6 fish and landing one or two. I did have one day that I made three cast for three fish. One chrome bright, one with a line down the side and one down river fish. I doubt I'll ever have that kind of fishing here in Washington State again.

I fished the Nisqually from the middle 70's in to the 80's before it closed. I agree with fishbreath about the quality of the fishing for steelhead. I also think Bill's numbers are very high. Maybe Bill assumed that all steelheaders were as accomplished as him. I would like to know whose "claim" it was that the tribe was not that interested in netting steelhead. I had friends who would go down and buy steelhead from the tribal netters on the river bank at Frank's Landing. Those fish were not counted in their catch. Steelhead in the round $3/ lb. Like fishbreath, I can remember there was a small plant of summerrruns and maybe a small plant of winters for a while. If anyone is interested, look into the work of steelhead bio John McMillan of TU and and the people of the Wild Steelhead Coalition. They have done some interesting studies on how wild steelhead runs in the Skagit and some of the South Puget Sound streams (Nisqually, Puyallup) have recovered.
It would be interesting to know Tug3's thoughts on the tribal netting in the Nisqually.