The reckoning: A looming decision on endangered salmon will set the stage for momentous battles over the future
Sometime this spring, a federal district court judge in Portland will render a decision based on the federal Endangered Species Act that will determine the fate of two dozen endangered salmon stocks that spawn in rivers from Sacramento to British Columbia. Just another ho-hum environmental lawsuit? Don't bet on it.

Judge James A. Redden's decision promises to be as momentous as any court-ordered environmental remedy in our lifetimes, the Dred Scott of environmental law. Of the many battles waged in the wake of the Endangered Species Act, no other beast, fish or fowl has created a more politically charged -- or more expensive -- fight than West Coast salmon.

On one side of the battle are conservationists, coastal fishing communities, the state of Oregon and the Nez Perce tribe -- parties that would sacrifice some degree of economic advantage for the sake of sustainable co-existence with another species.

Arrayed against them are hydropower interests, aluminum industries, agribusiness, ....





http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2011/02/the_reckoning_a_looming_decisi.html

"Arrayed against them are hydropower interests, aluminum industries, agribusiness, AuntyM and Bait Donkey....."

Fixed it for ya.

You seem more concerned about some aspect of your life being changed for the good of fish recovery, than doing anything constructive.
Your a raving fraud, who's true colors are anti fish recovery.
Is that why you champion harvest reform?

no, just the end of the human race.

Oh boy another pissin match, who would have thunk it on this board!


Fishy

I see Freespool has his myopia blinders on again. The way he and Aunty M go at it, you'd never guess they are over 90% in agreement. It's not that the fine print isn't important, but the two of you could do a hell of a lot of good pulling in the same direction since you really aren't that far apart, but that's all you two can focus on.

Sg

Salmo, CR salmon recovery is my specialty, and I understand every aspect of this issue, I know the players, and I know what they say.
I also know what is at stake here, spending $12 billion in the name of recovery, half that number is BPA's foregone power generation, with little to nothing to show for it can not continue.
I'm advocating that we stop letting BPA call the recovery shots, instead we need to start doing what the professionals have been saying for years, unblock the habitat and start spilling water in the spring.
FYI, hydro power is not considered green energy because of it's adverse effect on fish species.

unless some dams come down its going to be another in the long list of bandaid fixes.

Almost like the fat guy chewing bubble gum.

"Salmon recovery stinks" Billy Frank Jr.


This rings very true. Something we have not really seen in a long time. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.

Matt

If you're going to be so god damn pessimistic, why say anything at all? Jebus... All you try to do is bring people down.

I can smell BS Aunty, something you never seem to run short on.

Freespool,

Thank you for your effort. I'm sure there is something you could teach me about hydro that I don't already know, but I haven't read anything yet. I'm not a know-it-all, but hydro, ESA, and salmonid ecology are subjects I'm fairly familiar with. I also know some of the players, maybe some of the same ones you do. I know Lori Bodi mentioned in the editorial and even knew her back when she worked for the "good" guys. Not someone I enjoy seeing on the "other" team.

Anyway, I don't understand why you can't see in your eternal pissing match with Aunty M that you both share most of the same values. I don't think she'd mind seeing the lower Snake R dams come out or be breached - I wouldn't. But she is also well read, and thinks that political influence will prevent it. I don't claim to know, but I think she's right based on the record of four presidential administrations. Three presidents have been very clear that the lower Snake dams are not part of the recovery equation, which could be interpreted as the political opinion has already trumped any biological opinion.

I think we're going to get whatever level of recovery is possible with the dams in place. Not to sound an alarm, but if you're watching all of the Columbia, you'll note that the mid-C non-federal dams are getting ever nearer their required fish passage performance standards. Some of that is due to spring spill, and a lot is due to techno fixes. And it makes the federal dams look bad. I think that's a good thing, because it empirically demonstrates that BPA/Corps/BOR aren't doing anywhere close to the best job possible, and provides leverage to make them improve. And if some of those improvements come about by removing lower Snake dams, great, I'll applaud, but understand, I'm not holding my breath. Have you ever met the God Squad? I have, and even when there is a Democratic administration, you'd never guess it dealing with those folks. Kinda' like Aunty says, those folks just don't care the way we do. Their yardstick for measuring the environment is as different as night from day compared to ours. Politicians are not our friends in this effort, to wit: Murray and Cantwell as also mentioned in the editorial.

Sg

Freespool said:CR salmon recovery is my specialty, and I understand every aspect of this issue.


Wouldn't learning how to work with the people your supposedly on the same side with not involve name calling,instigating, inflammatory statements and just generally being a tool. Course I am not an expert nor claim to know every aspect of this issue but I have to ask. If your so knowledgeable on this issue, why is there an issue?


Fishy

I reject Aunty's reality, and inject my own.
From my perspective things can and must change, if recovery is truly the goal.
Presently we have a save the dam plan firmly entrenched, with the biggest energy producers calling the recovery shots.
Just because the political winds are blowing in one direction doesn't mean they can't change.
But when I read BPA cherry picked bullet points, it makes me think someone is a apologist for those who stand in the way of recovery.

Forgive me I forgot the state of Washington sold the salmon out years ago, so why do you sport anglers vote for these obstructionists anyway?
Forgot about Slade Gordon, never mind.

And this tool calls us the problem.

Freespool, table your arrogance for a minute and try and reach a solution that will help fish, and people.

We all know what needs to be done. But the reality is.....it will take small steps over a period of time.

Politics manage fish, I wish it was different. Hopefully we can make something happen in time. But if you think for a minute your constant banter is helping, your dead wrong.

Reality SUCKS!

Now go smoke another bowl and think how else you could be a complete A-Hole.

Hmmm... I simply amazed every time you're fingers stroke the keyboard....

Really?

Keith

Guys/Gals - Really...... This topic is certainly worthy of considerable discussion and debate. The article is very well written, and worth careful consideration. We really don't need the 'spitting match' between two strong personalities. Give it a rest.

Back on point - My sense is that if Judge Redden tosses out the latest Federal hydro plan for Pacific salmon (i.e., biological opinion), there will be a legislative fix. That is, Doc will introduce a bill in the House that overrules Judge Redden, for now and forever more. Patty and Maria will do the same in the Senate. The Administration has already indicated they support the plan, so a veto would be unlikely. Game, set, match. Done. Over. No more litigation, no more dam breaching discussion, no more options, no further arguing. And if Pacific salmon slide towards extinction in the Columbia Basin sometime in the future, the solution won't be readily apparent.

I'm normally not pessimistic, but I don't see a win-win solution to this one.

and this thread is just a great example of what's been happening for 50 years..Nothing but alot of pissed of people pointing the finger at each other.

You say arrogance, I'm saying ignorance.
There is one other scenario, Judge Redden has threatened in the past to take over the CR salmon recovery effort himself, then what?