Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#983182 - 01/04/18 02:05 AM Creel counts
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
If there is any question about how bad our fisheries are getting, take a look the recent creel count for the East Fork of the Lewis, Coweeman and Kalama rivers. For the week ending Jan 1st they checked 85 anglers with 2 hatchery kept and 2 released and one wild released. I realize we are past the peak of the run, but still a 6% catch rate or if looked at a different way, one fish per approx. 18 days of fishing. During what should have been the peak of the run, they found only slightly better numbers in checking with 4 fish kept and one release for 65 anglers or an 8% catch rate (12.5 days of fishing). I realize those are not full days, but again, the numbers are dismal. Have they switched the run timing here too, or is it just what it looks like?

Top
#983183 - 01/04/18 07:49 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Krijack
Have they switched the run timing here too, or is it just what it looks like?


Who knows what WDFW is doing????? The accountability of this State agency is terrible....WDFW has gone into hiding, anything that involves a answer by email is almost non-existence. Many times changes take place that affects "tax payers", you don't find out about until a long time after the change.......examples.....fish kills at hatcheries, changes in smolt placement in rivers, are 2 that affect my area of the State.

PDR's are a way to make WDFW somewhat accountable but even this can get to be a long drawn affair. WDFW does not move quickly!!!!


Edited by DrifterWA (01/04/18 07:49 AM)
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

Top
#983184 - 01/04/18 07:51 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
When I first was involved with steelhead the conventional wisdom as put out by WDG was that it took a long time to catch one steelhead. Those numbers, spread over the season, actually don't conflict with what I remember people saying. I fished the Lyre a few time in Jan/Feb and the fish I got were the only ones I saw folks with. But, a co-worker went there on the last day, Feb 28, and lost 10 before landing one.

I began to learn, and it has only been reinforced over the decades, that steelhead are actually very easy to catch and are very dumb, as in catch, take scales, release, catch agin on same fly next cast. What they are is really hard to find. Put the hook in front of him and he'll bite, but you must put it there.

I have known too many good steel headers who always get multiple fish in a day.

Not saying that Krijck is wrong about the lack of fish but checking anglers is probably not the way to gauge abundance. I have walked (spawner surveying) streams where I knew the number of fish and saw like 5-10%. We have electrofished sections where you could see no adults until you tickled them.

Top
#983191 - 01/04/18 09:26 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
Krijack,

Going on memory here, but as I recall, WDFW has discontinued stocking hatchery steelhead in the EF Lewis, so it's not surprising that few or no steelhead would be caught there in December. WDFW is switching the Kalama hatchery winter run program from early timed Chambers Creek stock to native wild stock, which more than likely have a later run timing. I don't know where in the transition phase the program is. Apparently the Coweeman program of hatchery stocking is staying the same, but the Coweeman has very little public access. I don't know anything about the overall success - or lack thereof - of the hatchery steelhead program on the Coweeman. I just wonder why the Department would have a hatchery steelhead program on a stream that lacks public access. Anyway, given the above, a low catch of hatchery steelhead in December is not surprising.

Sg

Top
#983198 - 01/04/18 10:37 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
One of the in treating aspects of steelhead is that time of return is closely tied to age at smolting. While it is true that WDG advanced, through environmental manipulation and selective breeding, Chambers Creek timing simply sending smolts out as age-1 has them return earlier. And, even with hatchery fish, and age-2 smolt returns later than a 1 and an age-3 later than a 2.

So, when WDFW uses the wild Kalama winters as broodstock and releases them as age-1 they will come back earlier, on average, than the wild fish so we will still have a "early" hatchery component. Not as early as Chambers, but earlier than the wilds.

Top
#983205 - 01/04/18 11:41 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Carcassman]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 237

Top
#983217 - 01/04/18 12:36 PM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
I know!

It's gotten so bad I think they stopped reporting creel checks completely on the Quil/Hoh. . .at least that's what the website indicates,

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

Top
#983221 - 01/04/18 12:44 PM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
BARCHASER Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 186
Loc: Bothell
They also stopped on line creel fishchecker counts for Puget Sound and the Straits. I don't know if this is temporary or permanent but I suspect its permanent.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/creel/puget/




Edited by BARCHASER (01/04/18 12:45 PM)

Top
#983246 - 01/05/18 06:41 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Chum Man Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 2691
Loc: Yelmish
never forget, we gave up the little green's summer run so that the good old boy club can have their private fishery on the coweeman.

Top
#983247 - 01/05/18 07:22 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Looking at catch records, it does appear that the Kalama is getting more of its fish in later. I guess my frustration is just the lack of opportunity near me. I have the opportunity to get out for the first time in a while, but could not decide where to go. If the fish are present, I can usually get my share. Over the past 10 years I have not been able to get out as much for a number of reasons, and the ability to catch fish in certain areas are now gone. This time of the year, 20 years ago I could count on the Cowlitz for something, the Green or Puyallup still had viable runs, the Nisqually would produce Chum and there were 3 or 4 small runs that had fish in them. Now, other than the emergency opening on the Nisqually, there really is no where within 1.5 hours of Tacoma that has a chance for fish. The Skookumchuck should be getting some, along with the Wynochee, but are usually so crowded it takes away a lot of the experience. If I go further than that, I like to see some fish in the river. The creel counts are one way to try to figure out where to head, along with some of the old catch records. Seeing the reports just adds to the frustration as it means the few place with fish will just be that much more crowded. I have some ideas, but will just have to drive further and take a chance. Hopefully I can nail the conditions and find a few .

Top
#983252 - 01/05/18 08:19 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Chum Man]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Originally Posted By: Chum Man
never forget, we gave up the little green's summer run so that the good old boy club can have their private fishery on the coweeman.


Faa King pathetic.
Sacrificing endless miles of good fishing for a couple miles of private locked up river.
Genebank...................LMAO.

Fuuuuck off WA!!!!!!

Top
#983288 - 01/06/18 04:08 PM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may0517a/

This publication also talks about the Kalama summers, "On the Kalama River, WDFW also plans to substitute a local broodstock – Kalama summer steelhead – for Skamania-origin summer steelhead.
Interesting? Am I interpreting this correctly? I thought all of SW Wa hatchery summers were from Skamania Stock? Never knew a separate Kalama summer stock existed?
Does someone know how this change may affect run timing there? Last few years late May and June Kalama summers have been few and far between, when they used to be abundant.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#983304 - 01/07/18 10:50 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
Skamania summer run stock are Washougal and Wind River origin and return primarily as 2-salt adults. Kalama had an endemic native summer steelhead stock that also returned mainly as 2-salt adults, based on stories I heard of the pre-hatchery program days. I wouldn't expect much difference in run timing.

The reason early return summer steelhead were common was because a good share of the hatchery broodstock was taken from early returning adults and because smolt plants and adult returns were much larger. When the shape of the return curve remains the same, but is increased in magnitude, there are more fish in the river during all time periods, early, mid-season, and late season.

Top
#983321 - 01/08/18 07:03 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Salmo g.]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 237
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Skamania summer run stock are Washougal and Wind River origin and return primarily as 2-salt adults. Kalama had an endemic native summer steelhead stock that also returned mainly as 2-salt adults, based on stories I heard of the pre-hatchery program days. I wouldn't expect much difference in run timing.


Skamania stock in Washougal and Klickitat River-origin.

The Kalama River stock program has been operating for many years, so they have been releasing both the Skamania and endemic hatchery stocks. Now they will just release a larger number of only Kalama. Timing may change slightly but not as much as the winter endemic vs chambers-stock timing.

Top
#983324 - 01/08/18 09:05 AM Re: Creel counts [Re: Krijack]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
Klickitat, not Wind; thanks!

Top

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
CHUBS
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 939 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13521
eyeFISH 12766
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63773 Topics
645302 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |