Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1004951 - 03/07/19 12:03 PM Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries?
Jaydee Offline
2010 SRC Champion!

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 1002
Loc: Paradise City!
_________________________
RIP Tyler Greer. May Your seas be calm, and filled with "tig'ol'bings"!


Top
#1004960 - 03/07/19 12:25 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Hopefully a drastic reduction in northern fisheries.

Top
#1004983 - 03/07/19 03:27 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1611
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Given the warning shot fired across their bow by WFC, it's a good bet that Chinook salmon fisheries are going to get alot of attention in 2019, and likely for the foreseeable future.

https://www.pcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/D1a_Supp_NMFS_Rpt1_SRKW_MAR2019BB.pdf

Barry's letter to Phil (March 6, 2019) is a direct response to the WFC letter from Dec 2018.


Edited by cohoangler (03/07/19 03:33 PM)

Top
#1005038 - 03/07/19 10:23 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: wsu]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: wsu
Hopefully a drastic reduction in northern fisheries.


Unfortunately, PFMC has ZERO jurisdiction over those northern intercepts... SE-AK, NBC, WCVI.

They do, however, have COMPLETE control over so-called SUS fisheries ... well, at least within PST obligations.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#1005039 - 03/07/19 10:31 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
It will be interesting how the directive from Barry Thom (NMFS) to Phil Anderson (PFMC) will be received. Phil's response will be more than predictable based on the opinion piece he co-authored with Lorraine Loomis.

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/united-to-save-salmon-and-orcas/
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#1005070 - 03/08/19 09:46 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Phil and Lorraine's argument may be close to right, if you only consider WA fisheries. And they muddle the discussion enough that one doesn't look too closely.

The only short-term chance the SRKWs have is closure of all marine mixed stock harvest of Chinook, coastwide. Prosecute Chinook fisheries after they have passed by the SRKWs (rivers and bays).

At the same time, pinnipeds need reducing, dams need breeching, habitat needs restoring, and the fisheries that affect Chinook food base need managing. Those are the longer term solutions.

But, starving fish need food now.

Say it's early April, 1945 and you are in the group liberating one of Concentration Camps. Are you going to tell them that you have provided the German people with farm equipment and they will be providing you food from there? Will you tell them that you will turn off the Nazi PA system that blared music about "Arbeit macho frei". Will you send in carpenters to repair (restore) the barracks? Or will the first order of business be seeing that they have enough to eat?

Top
#1005096 - 03/08/19 11:42 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: eyeFISH]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: wsu
Hopefully a drastic reduction in northern fisheries.


Unfortunately, PFMC has ZERO jurisdiction over those northern intercepts... SE-AK, NBC, WCVI.

They do, however, have COMPLETE control over so-called SUS fisheries ... well, at least within PST obligations.


I would hope NOAA is giving the same message to those that manage AK and will pursue the same issues through the PST. Too optimistic?

Top
#1005182 - 03/09/19 12:29 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Carcassman]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: Carcassman

The only short-term chance the SRKWs have is closure of all marine mixed stock harvest of Chinook, coastwide. Prosecute Chinook fisheries after they have passed by the SRKWs (rivers and bays).

At the same time, pinnipeds need reducing, dams need breeching, habitat needs restoring, and the fisheries that affect Chinook food base need managing. Those are the longer term solutions.





OUTTA the ball park.... W-H-E-W ! ! !
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#1005185 - 03/09/19 08:46 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: eyeFISH]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: Carcassman

The only short-term chance the SRKWs have is closure of all marine mixed stock harvest of Chinook, coastwide. Prosecute Chinook fisheries after they have passed by the SRKWs (rivers and bays).

At the same time, pinnipeds need reducing, dams need breeching, habitat needs restoring, and the fisheries that affect Chinook food base need managing. Those are the longer term solutions.





OUTTA the ball park.... W-H-E-W ! ! !


Interesting to consider future fisheries around the SRKW. Attached is a range and diet report from NOAA.
https://swfsc.noaa.gov/uploadedFiles/Eve...071515MBHv2.pdf
One can look at the range graph and sighting map and guess where and when fisheries could occur. No coastal or strait fisheries would be economically devastating to those communities, but by looking at the maps if restrictions came down, those locations and the San Juans would be the hardest hit. Simultaneously, North, Mid and South PS could see a boon in numbers if seasons were allowed. Optimistically speaking of course.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#1005186 - 03/09/19 09:38 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The most important fisheries to curtail are those that take juveniles and immatures. The whales eat the maturing/mature fish. By focusing the argument in the Straits and San Juans, the real killers get ignored. Close the Starits and San Juans and leave the contiguous areas of BC open? That works how?

Providing for the SRKWs would benefit the fishers in the terminal areas. Perhaps this is how it would be. The terminal areas bear the burden of habitat restoration, protection, controls, and such. They should be first in line for the rewards.

Top
#1005187 - 03/09/19 09:57 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: Carcassman

The only short-term chance the SRKWs have is closure of all marine mixed stock harvest of Chinook, coastwide. Prosecute Chinook fisheries after they have passed by the SRKWs (rivers and bays).

At the same time, pinnipeds need reducing, dams need breeching, habitat needs restoring, and the fisheries that affect Chinook food base need managing. Those are the longer term solutions.



OUTTA the ball park.... W-H-E-W ! ! !




Simultaneously, North, Mid and South PS could see a boon in numbers if seasons were allowed. Optimistically speaking of course.


That seems to be a quantum leap in optimism given that P.S. marked selective Chinook fisheries are primarily constrained by impacts.

What are the current impact numbers in the Straits/San Juans and how might those numbers affect inner P.S. fisheries if they were to be shifted to those inner Sound areas?

And I will throw into the mix the potential for increased hatchery production.

And since I don't have a Cray supercomputer the answers are outside my capability (ignoring my personal computer limitations, of course).
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1005194 - 03/09/19 12:03 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1269
Loc: WaRshington
We’re talking about closures 2020 forward and we don’t even have 2019 seasons set???

Facepalm.
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

Top
#1005200 - 03/09/19 02:27 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: GodLovesUgly]
spokey9 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Ravenden, AR
Originally Posted By: GodLovesUgly
We’re talking about closures 2020 forward and we don’t even have 2019 seasons set???

Facepalm.



It's honestly more realistic to assume closures then open fisheries anymore
_________________________
Beware of the 3 inch Perch

Top
#1005201 - 03/09/19 02:45 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Each and every Chinook that is killed before maturity is a fish the is unavailable to the whales. Because the numbers are way down (Chinook) even closures may not now be enough. I mentioned earlier that in the 80s Nooksack and Samish had Chinook returns to the bay of 80-100K+ and now the whole damn Sound has how many?

We have gotten ourselves, of our own free will, down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon with a legal requirement to get out now.

Top
#1005205 - 03/09/19 05:20 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Each and every Chinook that is killed before maturity is a fish the is unavailable to the whales. Because the numbers are way down (Chinook) even closures may not now be enough. I mentioned earlier that in the 80s Nooksack and Samish had Chinook returns to the bay of 80-100K+ and now the whole damn Sound has how many?

We have gotten ourselves, of our own free will, down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon with a legal requirement to get out now.


Let us not forget that hatchery production has been reduced significantly since the '80s and seal population is up exponentially since then while actual harvest by WA fishers is way down and that reduced number includes adult fish taken in areas generally past the primary SRKW feeding grounds. Point being the "we" is all of us - not just recreational fishers.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1005210 - 03/09/19 08:02 PM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
So if NOAA-F/NMFS wields the Policy hammer on PFMC, would they not have similar influence over the NPFMC which has jurisdiction over Alaska's marine fisheries?

If the whole premise of all this posturing is that US-managed fisheries should not be LOW-HOLING the endangered orcas, then curtailing chinook exploitation in Alaska MUST be part of the overall package.

Is it safe to conclude that this could finally be the hammer that puts the northern intercept fisheries in Alaska on notice to make them accountable for their impacts on stocks destined for a migratory path thru the SRKW's feeding grounds?

Carcassman? Salmo G? Cohoangler?
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#1005231 - 03/10/19 09:48 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
Tsk, tsk. Come on Eyefish, you know the sovereign nation-state of Alaska does not yield to the SUS (southern US) over un-shared conservation issues. I say un-shared because AK does not have an endangered orca problem. WA and BC have an orca problem. The NRKW population segment is doing just fine (low-holing the SRKWs). Any global observer can see that the SRKW, like its SUS Chinook angler, is doomed to extinction. On the evolutionary pathway it is quite clear that low-holing is simply a survival adaptation. Darwin would no doubt approve!

Top
#1005238 - 03/10/19 10:31 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
It has been my understanding that the SE Alaska Chinook fisheries generally hammer fish bound for BC and that BC generally hammers fish bound for the SUS.

If that is generally the way it is relative to the SRKW primary food source I wonder to what extent NOAA/NMFS can wield the ESA club to protect Chinook bound for BC rather than SUS.

As for Barry Thom's recent letter to WDFW he seems to have finally emerged only to focus on the crappy, picked over low hanging fruit while ignoring the bright, shiny fruit at the top of the tree.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1005239 - 03/10/19 10:54 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Nobody has a hammer to hit AK. Their view is that fisherman south of the AK/BC border have enough fish available to feed the SRKWs. If SRKWs are so important to us down here, we'd take the appropriate action.

Kinda like their interpretation of Hoh v. Baldridge. They will take conservation actions after everybody else has exhausted their options.

Top
#1005241 - 03/10/19 11:18 AM Re: Future restrictions for Ocean Salmon fisheries? [Re: Jaydee]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
US-managed marine fisheries are controlled by eight regional "Fishery Management Councils" which include the PFMC and NPFMC.

http://www.fisherycouncils.org

If NOAA-F can legitimately push against one FMC, they can do so with ANY of them.

At its base, this has been framed as a LOW-HOLING problem. The SRKW's in Puget Sound are getting low-holed by these fisheries which stymie not only the total number of chinook available to SRKW's, but also the ability of the population to produce the older larger phenotype they prefer to eat.

If PFMC is gonna be forced by NOAA-F to swallow its lumps for chinook conservation, it should insist that NPFMC do likewise. I think Mr Anderson is plenty smart enough to articulate that position.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
CHUBS
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 939 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13521
eyeFISH 12766
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63773 Topics
645302 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |