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#946274 - 01/09/16 09:39 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4393
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I am posting up a recent letter from the Advocacy on the situation with ocean harvest. For the purpose of full disclosure Tim is my brother and I have known Ron & Art for years. Now to say my brother and I agree on everything is a reach in fact we often disagree LOUDLY. That all said his letter on ocean intercept hits the nail on the head. We as citizens have poured tax payer & our own money into habitat restoration, property setbacks, blockage removal, sewage just plain everything. For what? In order to restore salmon runs you have to let them come home and that is the issue. Until ocean intercept fisheries are addressed nothing will change. I will shut up now.

I have a graph that was done that shows that only 3% of salmon harvest ( Chinook ) in South East Alaska originate in Alaska. Yell if you want it. Also several other graphs the show the impacts and values.

For you GH folks I can also send you a graph showing the values of both the Rec inriver and bay fisheries.



Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy
PO Box 179
McCleary, WA 9855
thfwa@comcast.net

January 8, 2016

Pacific Salmon Commission via: email in PDF format 1155 Robson St.
Vancouver, BC V6E 1B5, Canada

Re: Request For A Reduction In Harvest Impacts
on Southern Bound Natural Spawning Salmon Stocks

The Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy is a non-profit organization based in Washington State. The purpose of the Advocacy is “Provide education, science, and other efforts that en- courage the public, regulatory agencies and private businesses to manage or utilize fish, wildlife and other natural resources in a fashion that insures the sustainable of those resources on into the future for the benefit of future generations.” (www. thfwa.org).

Advocacy members and their family and neighbors have personally spent decades investing in salmon production through volunteer projects that have raised millions of Chinook, Coho, and Chum salmon that contribute to the pool of fish caught in the Pacific Ocean. Our members and supporters have joined with other Washington citizens and property owners in contributing billions of dollars in habitat restoration, state operated hatchery production, culvert replacements, property devaluation, loss of timber harvest, municipal or private sewage and storm water improvements, etc. under government mandates wherein the stated primary purpose is the recovery or sustainability of natural spawning salmon stocks in WA streams.

With all this effort and investment, salmon recovery has struggled to succeed. Instate fishing has declined and ESA listings have plagued the state from the Columbia on the south to Puget Sound to the north.

Over the last 4 years, the Advocacy and others have invested thousands of hours in assisting the Washington Fish & Wildlife Commission in adoption of two new salmon management policies for the coastal terminals of Willapa Bay1 and Grays Harbor2. The policies prioritize conservation over harvest, install hatchery reform and place an increased emphasis on achieving escapement goals for natural spawning stocks. In simple terms, an all out effort is underway to avoid further ESA designations and return natural spawning production to numbers adequate to sustain viable fisheries in the future.

The effort underway went forth with the knowledge that harvest inside the terminal has to be managed in a manner that could often require reduction of harvest inside the two terminals in order to achieve escapement goals. Using 2015 as an example, tribal and non-tribal commercial


1 http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/fisheries/willapa_bay_salmon/
2 http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/fisheries/grays_harbor_salmon/


seasons were curtailed for Chinook in Willapa and Grays Harbor. Recreational fishers in both terminals were forced to forgo retention of un-marked Chinook. Then, the much smaller than expected 2015 Coho return forced closures of tribal commercial, non-tribal commercial, and recreational seasons within both coastal terminals.

Even with all these measures and sacrifices, we believe it is clear escapement goals for natural spawning Chinook in Willapa Bay in 2015 were not reached. The adjustments in non-tribal and tribal fisheries inside the terminal, combined with a recent lowering of the escapement goal, might have allowed us to reach escapement goal for Chinook in Grays Harbor. We further predict that Coho escapement goals will not be achieved in either terminal even with the closures as once again the conservation burden fell on the terminal fishers who waited patiently for their turn to fish as harvest continued on schedule on the ocean.

We recognize that the citizens who live on and around salmon bearing streams are stewards of those streams and will pay a significantly greater price than non-locals for the production of fish that are likely to be harvested on the open ocean. However, in providing this subsidy to fishers in other regions, the harvest rate applied outside the terminals by PSC should not make it nearly impossible to achieve escapement goals or threaten the locals with additional burdens from ESA listing of species resulting from a consistent failure to achieve spawning production at a rate that insures the viability of the stock for the future. Unfortunately, such was the case in 2015 for Chinook in the Willapa and for Coho in both coastal terminals.

As an example of the hardship placed on those inside the terminal, on page 51 of PSC’s annual report on Chinook harvest (TCCHINOOK15-1_V1, PSC.PDF) it states in 2014 “....on average 86% of fishery-related mortality on WA coastal stocks” results from PSC sanctioned fisheries located north of the Canadian/WA border. Relating that mortality to Willapa Bay, the returning runsize of Chinook natural spawners coming across the bar into the Bay was below the escapement goal. In simple terms, the number of natural spawning Chinook heading for Willapa Bay was reduced by harvest in AK and BC to the point the runsize into the Bay was well below escapement making achievement of the escapement goal impossible even if all fishing inside the terminal was canceled. It is important to note that this phenomena is not limited to 2014, but rather the norm in Willapa for over a decade. Neither is it limited to just Chinook as the same shortfall in runsize below escapement goal occurred in 2015 for Coho in both terminals resulted in season cancellations though seasons on the ocean proceeded forward on the initial schedule.

In accordance with the Advocacy’s purpose referenced earlier, it is our belief that the elected officials and citizens of Washington state should have the opportunity to fully understand all the reasons why the billions already invested by Washingtonians have not produced the anticipated conservation results and the list of threatened or endangered stocks continue to grow in Puget Sound and elsewhere. It is therefore our intention to engage all in a long over-due discussion regarding the reasons why the state is plagued by the failure to recovery natural spawning salmon stocks.

The latest indicator of the need for such a broad based public discussion is the overfishing notice recently published by NOAA in the federal register for Willapa Bay and Grays Harbor fall Chinook and Coho in the Hoh River further up the coast. We believe the citizens will quickly ask

“Where is all this fishing occurring?” With 86% of fishing mortality occurring north of the WA/ Canada border, we expect most eyes to then turn to the PFC processes. The question we expect to hear is “If we can’t get PFC to let enough back to the streams to meet escapement goals, where’s the incentive for Washingtonians to continue pouring billions of dollars in public and private resources into habitat restoration and hatchery production?” At this point, the Advocacy doesn’t have an answer that we are confident the majority of citizens of Washington would find acceptable. Especially when responding to the family living on Willapa Bay that recently lost a quarter of a million dollars in harvestable timber due to setbacks intended to protect habitat for natural spawners that have yet to materialized in the nearby stream due to harvest impacts.

As we move forward in our project to engage all in discussions about how we can restore natural spawning stocks in Washington, the Advocacy respectfully requests that the Pacific Salmon Commission consider seasons north of Washington’s border for 2016 forward that reduces the impacts on natural origin salmon stocks that have either struggled to meet escapement goals or noted under ESA guidelines. In the case of Willapa and Grays Harbor Chinook and Hoh River Coho, we are requesting a decrease in northern impacts on natural spawners of 10% per year for five consecutive years or until such time as the number crossing over from the Pacific is expected to be at least 110% of the escapement goal for two consecutive years.

In presenting this request, we recognize that the Advocacy is not accustomed to the processes used within the Commission to establish quotas and harvest rates and some might frown on our approach. In our defense, at this point a relatively small percentage of Washingtonians even know the Commission exists let alone understand the impact the Commission has on the economic well-being of the state’s citizens. Then, the closed to the public meeting processes used by the Commission when establishing seasons north of WA do not provide the normal regulatory transparency we are accustomed to in the U.S. leaving one uncertain how to participate.

If anyone in the Commission has recommendations on how to participate in a more effective fashion, we will give all suggestions offered due consideration. In the meantime, we will be moving forward with our plans to engage the public and elected officials in a conversation about the difficulties and obstacles that need to be addressed to insure recovery of natural spawning salmon stocks in WA streams.

Respectfully,



Edited by Rivrguy (01/09/16 03:39 PM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#946318 - 01/09/16 08:10 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
So, what is Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy take on ex WDFW director Phil Anderson’s participation in these matters?
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#946368 - 01/10/16 01:15 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Their take is to engage the key players (Chair Anderson included) in the respectful manner expected of any party wishing to address the PSC on these matters. The emphasis will be on becoming more educated about PROCESS, and how best to navigate uncharted waters to successfully bring about meaningful change to benefit the home team.

Having the backing of Director Unsworth and the Commission (our WFWC) will be important in moving the issue forward.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#946385 - 01/10/16 02:26 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy

The Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy is a non-profit organization based in Washington State. The purpose of the Advocacy is “Provide education, science, and other efforts that en- courage the public, regulatory agencies and private businesses to manage or utilize fish, wildlife and other natural resources in a fashion that insures the sustainable of those resources on into the future for the benefit of future generations.” (www. thfwa.org).

It sounds like well worth goals that others from around the state could back considering escapement goals aren't being met in other areas as well.

Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Having the backing of Director Unsworth and the Commission (our WFWC) will be important in moving the issue forward.

There was some discussion at the F&W commission conference call Friday about the upcoming PSC meeting in Portland, OR starting Monday Jan.11 where the director and some members of our state F&W commissioners are attending.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#946392 - 01/10/16 03:43 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Here is the latest 11-yr dataset for marine harvest of West Coast chinook stocks visually presented as pie charts sized in proportion to actual catches.



This compares to an older 5 yr dataset I've posted in the past...



Take home story is the same, though....

WE GETTIN' LOW-HOLED, BOYS.... BIG TIME!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#946395 - 01/10/16 03:54 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
WA still has a choice. They keep asking/insisting/regulating that the landowners modify actions to "preserve" and "restore" fish. The Tribes sued WADOT offer culverts, asking even more money of the state. To what end?

We are not getting the fish back. Why produce hatchery fishing if they aren't coming back for the folks who paid for them to catch them?

I can see this getting right down to money. Money will not be spent just to make AK or BC have better fishing.

But I would have to disagree somewhat with Doc on "We getting' low holed boys" because we is catching a lot of those fish. We have met the enemy and he is us.

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#946462 - 01/10/16 06:40 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
The part I find interesting is that Gulf of Alaska and Bering Sea fishing activity is not accounted for in the PSC numbers. God only knows what the true exploitation rate of our north-migrating stocks REALLY amounts to.



_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#946468 - 01/10/16 08:34 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It amazes me that salmon managers use fractional data sets to evaluate and manage the stocks. How can you evaluate a stock's productivity, proper harvest level, sustainability, and so on if you don't what is produced by a given spawn?

Since all those fisheries are "managed" the data has to be there.

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#946477 - 01/10/16 09:13 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
One of the big issues is that "phantom" interception is occurring year round in so-called AK "winter king" fisheries... with virtually no sampling to determine stock of origin. Due to the statewide king crash of the past decade, recent efforts have been made to step up the sampling rigor... not so much out of a concern about how many BC/PNW-origin fish are being taken, but rather to see how many Cook Inlet-origin fish are being taken.

Example... right now, folks are paying hundreds of dollars to go charter fishing for dinker 10 pound and smaller "winter kings" in Homer with really no accounting for whose fish are getting low-holed.

When Cook Inlet spawners are potentially present (April 1 thru Sept 30) an annual limit of 5 chinook is enforced. But during the "off season" of Oct 1 thru Mar 31, a generous bag of 2 kings of any size daily with NO ANNUAL LIMIT just sort of reinforces this idea that it's OK for Alaskans to target these "winter" fish since they are NOT impacting stocks of local Cook Inlet origin spawners. Who cares.... take all you want all winter.... ain't hurting local stocks a bit. (Sorry, Rudy, just telling it like it is)
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#946695 - 01/12/16 08:36 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4393
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

This press release is out for the meeting so I thought I would pot it up for those who do not receive them.



NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
January 11, 2016
Contacts: Joe Stohr, 360-902-2650, Michele Culver, 360-249-1211, Guy Norman, 360-906-6704

WDFW invites public to help identify
conservation and recreation priorities

OLYMPIA – State fish and wildlife managers are asking people in coastal communities to attend a public forum next month to share their views on the values and priorities that should guide the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).

The meeting will take place from 6 to 8 p.m. Thursday, Feb. 4, at the Willapa Harbor Community Center, 916 W. First St., South Bend.

“We hope to hear from commercial fishers, charter boat operators, people active in recreation and tourism, and others who care about fish and wildlife management along the coast,” said WDFW Director Jim Unsworth. “This is a chance for the public to tell WDFW managers what we are doing right, where we need to improve, and where we should focus our efforts and our funding over the next five to 10 years.”

The meeting will be the seventh public forum conducted through WDFW’s ongoing outreach initiative, “Washington’s Wild Future.” More information is available online at http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/wildfuture.

Unsworth, along with senior WDFW managers and regional staff, will be available to hear residents’ views on fishing, including commercial gillnetting in the Columbia River, Grays Harbor, and Willapa Bay, and Pacific Ocean fisheries, and hunting, razor clam management, habitat protection and restoration, licensing, law enforcement, and other fish and wildlife issues.

The meeting will include a brief presentation about the importance of fish and wildlife management to Washington’s quality of life and the economies of communities throughout the state. Participants will then be invited to talk in small groups with representatives of the department’s Fish, Wildlife, Enforcement, Licensing, and Habitat programs, as well as Unsworth and his staff.

Comments will also continue to be accepted on WDFW’s website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wildfuture/form.html and by email to WildFuture@dfw.wa.gov.
Editors: A high-resolution photo of Jim Unsworth is available at http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/.

Persons with disabilities who need to receive this information in an alternative format or who need reasonable accommodations to participate in WDFW-sponsored public meetings or other activities may contact Dolores Noyes by phone (360-902-2349), TTY (360-902-2207), or email (dolores.noyes@dfw.wa.gov). For more information, see http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/reasonable_request.html.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#946827 - 01/12/16 08:04 PM THE BIG LIE....
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
The whopper of whoppers...

That salmon conservation efforts on the part of the Home Team would pay future dividends in helping to bring the fish back home. That the folks making the sacrifices to be better stewards of the spawning/rearing habitat, the folks doing nutrient enhancement, the restraint shown by JoeQ fisherman to help WDFW make escapement goals would help to produce that next generation MEGA-run.

And there lies the essence of THE BIG LIE.

All that effort, all that sacrifice... for what?

To line the pockets of distant northern intercept fisheries that are reaping the lion's share of the benefits of conservation/restoration efforts here at home in the Great PNW.

We've all known about it for the past decade.... and more than a few (myself included) have b!tched about it on this board over the years. But what to do? We all ultimately shrug our shoulders with a defeatist "Oh well...."
.
.
.
.
.




WELL.....

All of that is about to change.




_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#946828 - 01/12/16 08:08 PM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Piper
Unregistered


did you win powerball?

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#946829 - 01/12/16 08:11 PM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eugene1 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 885
Loc: out there...
I hope you bring it Doc!

We need change.

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#946830 - 01/12/16 08:18 PM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Yikes! Doc's gonna go all Guns of Navarone.

We should probably go ahead and start that bail fund now...
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#946832 - 01/12/16 08:24 PM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
'Twon't be me leading the charge, but I'll do my best to pitch in where/when I can.

The group to watch?

http://thfwa.org
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#946834 - 01/12/16 08:28 PM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
The first step of this journey starts here...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2tWjgmgVy3yTkx3dU1acUpSdG8/view
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#946835 - 01/12/16 08:34 PM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
THFWA has taken this fight to bring the fish back home to a whole new level. It is deserving of its own thread so folks can see the genesis of international salmon reform from beginning to end.

I've asked Paker to extract the appropriate posts out of the FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET thread and move them to this thread.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty stoked about the prospect of what will be posted here by the time this thread reaches page 25.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#946873 - 01/13/16 06:33 AM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
lundboat Offline
Alevin

Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Tacoma
This is great!
How does the normal working guy help out?

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#946886 - 01/13/16 08:39 AM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: lundboat]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4393
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
http://thfwa.org/ is the guys website.

The thing is folks that the FTC thread is about getting information to folks that is hid from the public view by the process and Grays Harbor. The Advocacy is about the fish. Early on when working the issues Tim coined the phrase " The Big Lie " to describe this massive push to save salmon by habitat restoration and just disregard harvest which means we as citizens have footed a bill in the billions now, for what? Habitat is critical but it is harvest as far back as when Teddy Roosevelt was pres that has time & time again driven the collapses in the last hundred years.

I think the last straw for the guys was when before any terminal harvest Willapa would not make Chinook escapement even with the new management plan. So for the Advocacy it is game on and my brother is going to drive the establishment right up the wall. His back ground of dealing with oil related regulations, feds & state, and fighting the oil companies tooth and nail has given him a set of skills that the fish establishment does not normally see in fish world.

The key for all of us that value fish is simple. We can not force the change and if we do try will likely fail. It is the Rec fisher, farmers, cities, land owners just plain ALL of us that can. When we all come together and put aside our differences and tell WDF&W and the other agencies NO MORE MONEY until this stops. It is really a WE THE PEOPLE thing that is the power and the Advocacy has that thought front and center.


Edited by Rivrguy (01/13/16 09:27 AM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#946893 - 01/13/16 09:22 AM Re: THE BIG LIE.... [Re: eyeFISH]
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 666
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10

You'd think the PFC would understand the fish are not THEIRS, but OURS in origin, and by helping US it actually helps them in the ocean harvest....

kinda common sense, isn't it?

If they harvest 86% of a given run of fish in AK/BC waters, what will their percentage be when there are zero fish?

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