Sportsman need to Save WDFW From themselves !!!!!!

Ok people,
Here it is, I don't know if any of you understand the grave situation we are in as sportsman with the WDFW and there lack of enforcement/ Information officers to properly serve us as sportsman and to protect the resources that we all love. After many conversations and observations I can clearly see that the higher ups in the WDFW and Enforcement do not have a clue on how to run, train, educate and staff the personel that they are putting out in the field to help us out and protect our resource. In a nutshell they are trying to run there enforcement officers like a police organization which it is not. They are suppossed to be resource officers, people who have a passion for fishing and hunting and want to protect the resource that it here for the next generation as well. Yes they are suppose to right tickets to offenders and educate those who have mistakenly done wrong. But they are not suppossed to be out looking for dope grows and pulling over speeders and such.
Also I don't know if you have noticed but we live in a very diverse state. We have every ethinic group that there is out recreating and enjoying the outdoors. Do you know that we have no Black officers, no Asian Officers, no middle eastern officers, no Indian officers and only 1 hispanic officer!! If you go to any average size police dept. in this state you will see officers of every race and of both genders. WDFW has ZERO diversity which makes them look like a bunch of redneck, white supremisist officers. This needs to change, especially being that you have a large number of Asian and african american sportsman.

It is time that we as sportsman ask the questions and take this to the commission and legislature and start the wheels of change. If we don't do something now we will lose the right to our resource. We need to form a group or a colalition to present the issues at hand to the commission and legislature to get the wheels of change moving and to hire a new batch of officers to compliment the under staffed group we have now and to add some diversity to the group to properly serve the diverse population of sportsman out there.

I know to some of you this sounds strange coming from me with my somewhat colorful past, but I do care about the resource and the people who protect it so lets stand up and take notice and help ourselves out.

Peace
Fly

I'm no expert on WDFW enforcement policies, but it seems like the one thing we could do to improve enforcement would be to allow the department to keep some portion of the revenue generated by citations and use it to hire/train/pay enforcement officers.

I realize that creates some dangerous incentives (like the podunk town speed trap used to keep the local town solvent), but it would probably be better than the lax enforcement we have now.

My two cents.

Superfly, I couldn't agree more. There really needs to be a whole shift in attitude and "in field" operating procedures of the WDFW. They should work in COOPERATION with sportsmen and use the general public as a resource, seeing as how the WDFW and the general public should be working towards the same goal.

One caution here, and that is "Diversity for the sake of Diversity" is just some more PC Crap. And we are now Full Up on PC Crap. I would be all for retaining Ticket Revenue in a Restricted Fund account, Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut this Department has already shown it's total and flagerant disregard for Restricted Fund useage, i.e., the Crab Catch Record Card & Puget Soud Blackmouth Restricted useage accounts. And the State Auditor Sonntag, the supposedly Watch Dawg of these Restricted Accounts has Hid his BallZ quite Well in ferreting out misuse and abuse. Here's an idea, how about a Sales Tax on all Things/Transactions that are Tribal Casino's to fund WDFW LE?????? Wouldn't that be "Special" in light of the Hood Canal Fiasco.

The bottom Line on this idea is that we Voting Dummies keep voting for the same 's in Power, and like dummies, expect different results. That is the classic definition of Insanity.

Rant Off, I feel sooooooooooo much better

Some good thoughts Fly, but I'm afraid that with State revenues tanking, the next round of state budget cuts will likely reduce the number of WDFW enforcement agents even more. We may need to advocate another license fee hike just to keep the LEOs we have now.

Sg

:

And I thought reverse discrimination had been made illegal in this State!

Anyway, what we should be looking for is the BEST candidate for the job. Period. Final.

If you want more minority officers then one positive approach is to advertise the openings with emphasis on those minority communities. Might I suggest that part of the problem is that those prospective employees find better LEO jobs than what WDFW can offer (and that those WASPS filling the jobs are more into the career field because of their love of the outdoors than the money).

Even Edmonton Alberta was in Seattle at a recent job fair seeking candidates for LEO. Funny thing was that the media reported several prospective candidates had come in thinking the openings were in Edmonds. Yea, hire those guys, eh!

There may be a couple of experienced ex-S'Klallam officers looking for jobs soon.

The dept. is already down 100 officers from just a few years ago, we and the resource cannot afford any more cuts. Also they need to Remove the "POLICE" from there uniforms, these guys are suppossed to be "GAME WARDENS" not city Police.
So.....When you have a few hundred asians fishing the duwamish waterway who is going to get more answers and more respect? a warden who is of asian decent and speaks the language or a whiteboy who looks like robo cop? pretty clear to me that the department enforcement division needs a house cleaning from the top down and that is first to remove the former state patrolman who is running the enforcement division and needs to retire since he has 37 years in and is most likely so out of touch with reality that he cannot see the forest from thew trees.

That is where we start.

Peace
Fly

Look, I respect the Enforcement folks at DFW as a whole.

Give Management at WDFW the static. You know where it ends is a result of where Management starts...

Jesus left us with a future. We sleep now with the fire 'cause Management was allowed to provide for the industrial, commercial take.

This mindset at DFW needs to change. The boots on the ground are not the problem IMHO. Staff at Harvest, at any cost, Management leave us fishing out of escapement.
In the military I trusted my life to my fellow team members. I would trust the Enforcement folks. Can't say the same thing for the Harvest Management.

No comment @ this time.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

The only thing left to do is get involved and encourage others to get involved. Develop an army and we will win...If you want change involve yourself, involve the ones around you.

Gotta agree with Fly here, tho I can only imagine he's posting this cause he doesn't know any insults (yet) in Russian or Vietnamese.

Even city cops know that the best way to gain trust/cooperation is to have someone who speaks the language. Don't necessarily need to hire ethnic minorities, but they do need to start hiring/training for the ability to communicate in a second language.

I tried to explain to a couple asian clam-diggers I ran into near Point No Point that the season wasn't open a couple years ago. They looked at me, then at each other, mumbled a bit and went right back to digging.

Another issue is one of outreach. A WDFW rep needs to be meeting the minority user groups to communicate proper use of our outdoor resources. WDFW pamplets are printed in English - a few handed out in other languages would be a good start.

Since all these changes are dependant on money, I doubt much will happen in the near future. But the direction can be established right now if we're able to get our point across.

.02,

Brian

I hear you.

I've been jacked around, even had one of my passengers knocked down to the floor in MA13. Gotta love the gal that shouts to keep your arms up as one lands a fish. I pass my CWP along with my punch card and license. Then I'm asked if I'm armed?
Perhaps I ,surprised, ran into her as she was scoping anglers at the S hole on the Satsop the year before.
Quite fitting description, location and attitude.

It's not fair to paint the whole group to the mess the former Director left as he went away.

Ok Fly, what prompted this?

I wanna hear the story(s).

The last few interactions I've had with WDFW enforcement has been Brian out in the OP. Class Act officer and sure as heck hope the rest are like him.

I did see a young "go getter" type out in Forks last year that liked to bark a lot - and snapped a little bit at Stam. Heard he barked at a few guides, but I think he's moved on to "bigger and better" things.

I've gotten WDFW's employment opportunities emailed to me for years now and the only people they are hiring have nothing to do with field work. Today's openings are for: Fiscal tech, Regional Director (ok, maybe), Management Analyist and Customer Service Specialist. Why the hell can't we get more people out in the field, whether it be bios, techs, enforcement, etc? I guess that is kind of a retorical question. Seems like there are plenty of tribal folks in the field. Maybe we need some state run casinos...

Alexander's always been a pretty good guy to deal with.

I'll admit that I had to check the calendar to make sure this wasn't April 1st, though.

So we wave our public resource goodbye?

In favor of Commercial, industrial impacts offshore?

No doubt a very, very complex issue. The rabbit hole is deep and the deeper you look, the farther it goes. I don't have experience with how things like budgets and staffing go on a state level, but I am learning a bit about that whole process in the federal system. Through my work,I interact with folks from a few different agencies from time to time.

As has been said, all of this "it would be great if" or "why don't they" stuff seems to come down to a case of the right people in the right place. I have a simple mind and so it is helpful for me to boil complex issues down to simple concepts. The WDFW has many challenges laid out before it, no question. Most great things don't come without a fight and without toil. The right people don't offer excuses, they offer solutions. They don't throw up their hands in despair and give up, they keep working and eventually succeed.

Effecting change in a multi-layered, multi-faceted beaurocratic machine like most State and Fed run organizations has to start at or near the top. Change chan't usually take place quickly in these beasts either. Even with the right people in positions of power, it can be years, even decades before the fruits of labor are seen, if they ever are.

With smaller budgets, less money, less manpower, the WDFW will certainly have it's work cut out if anyone there really cares about and hopes to achieve their stated mission. Even with the right person calling the shots, it is likely not possible in their current state. Things like budgets, staffing levels, resources, levels and types of training, diversity in the workforce, etc. all come about (or should) in support of the greater mission, the big picture. With a leadership team in place that not only understands the broad scope, but more importanly how to get there, it is possible.

Budgets can be fought for, policies can be changed, training and job descriptions can be improved. But not easily.

I listened to a talk given by the superintendent of a prominent national park earlier this year. When questioned about how he was going to handle a particular issue with one group of user withing the Park he responded by saying "our responsibility includes the visitors, but first and foremost it is to the resource." That is to say he understood the mission of the Park Service, that these lands were set aside for the people, but more importantly they were set aside to preserve their natural state. He went on to provide a well thought out solution that catered to the majority of the group of users, leaving the folks at either end of the spectrum a little restless, but the majority was pleased. No matter how hard you try, you will never please the world.

Balancing the concepts of "user enjoyment" and "resource conservation" is like trying to find the perfect mix of oil and water. Personally, I, as a user, wouldn't mind if folks like the WDFW put more emphasis in the resource.

To me the department is spread to thin.

The region 5 game department seems to do a great job with the short staff they have down here. We could certainly use a few more officers in the field....

Keith

I'd be happy to see more enforcement out in the field.

The buget cuts, lack of filling vacant positions, do not clear what could have been.

His name is Corey and he is a good guy once you get to know him.

I have an idea lets contract the PT Skallam tribe to do the game enforcement for the state.

I have a very large problem with that. This Country is a English Speaking Nation with a uniquely American Culture. If somebody comes here legally, then it is THEIR OBLIGATION to learn our language and culture, i.e., adapt/assimilate. If they want to stick their heads in THEIR cultural sand, then THEY should PAY The Penalty. The example of clam diggers not knowing that clams were out of season should have prompted the American English speaking person to report them and insist the appropriate LEO's take action. That is what Citizenship is all about. By not becoming involved, you only enable ignorance/law violations/American Cultural Insult.

I continue to believe that a program to train and deputize some volunteers (minimum commitment, free annual license as compensation, reasonable standards for candidates) would be amazingly successful at increasing the liklihood of people getting caught and therefore dramatically affect behavior.

There are plenty of retired ex-military, former civil servants, or even just plain ordinary resource loving folks who are spending time out there helping out.

Ski areas have ski patrol, works pretty much like this. Why in the world wouldn't we try this, in a pilot proram?

No, we stick togehter as much as possible and support people who are willing to do the heavy lifting to change the culture from Harvest to conservation. Otherwise, the MPA will cover our open waters.

Im just convinced, we cannot overlook the demand for food. Buying out licenses, doesnt increase the food supply, if its not harvested.
A little perspective is needed. I saw a show last year in which Erin Burnett from CNBC went to INDIA. Its all about developing markets, ie business opportunity. They have thousand of people each month, who ARE NOW ABLE TO EAT TWICE PER DAY. So, whats for dinner? How much salmon would it take to feed millions of people in INDiA. (currently, other fisheries are being overharvested )

Yah know, this is NOT a new idea, but a great idea!!!!! There is an existing model for this in both Washington and Oregon, Reserve Deputies Sheriffs. I know I was one for almost 12 years. I had to attend a BPST certified training course that lasted almost 7 months, two nights a week. I still remember my Oregon BPST Number. If the Oregon Sheriffs Deputy was used as a model, it would also address and solve the "Jurisdiction Problems." In Oregon (don't know about Washington), a Deputy commissioned in one county has color of authority in all Oregon counties. And City commission police officers, only have color of authority within the geographic boundaries of that city. Also, as a commissioned LEO in Oregon I was required by statute to maintain a minimum of 36 hours of formal training every year. No money charged hands, it was strictly volunteer, however, if I was injuried (which I was one time), the sheriff of Multnomah County paid Workmen's Comp insurance on all of us so we were covered for injuries. I also had to buy and maintain all of my own equipment (uniforms, equipment, sidearm, etc.).

I wonder if Cenci is readinjg this???? Or at least BushBear who has Cenci's ear

When I think of all the 1,000's of days I have spent hunting and fishing and I can count on one hand the interactions I have had with enforcement. That doesn't seem right. Granted I spend a lot of time in a boat but I've talked with the older guy in for forks brian I think was his name last year and he never even checked my license or my pair of brats. What's your guys thoughts on oregons enforcement? From what I understand the state police are the enforcement for odfw, how does that work? Couldn't agree more though about our wardens focusing on the resource and not a guy drinkin a beer while driving on a dirt road hunting, or some fisherman burnin one. Especially if we are going to be thin on enforcement they need to focus on the resource.

The biggest thing about being a good steward vs, civl patrol is the willingness to make the call and not feel like you are a high school nark. It should'nt take payment or freebies to make the call. They dont want the hassle or the responsibility of showing up, getting harrassed or hurt. I dont want a civil partol coming around with a piece of wool trying to find a burr where the barb use to be.

i do not know if the CCA rewards program will be increased. A few have collected, but it has not stopped poaching. I guess if by wearing a LE hat, would make a difference, Id do it.

A sign at ramps and large parking areas, should include the poaching hot line number.

I spent almost four years as a reserve deputy sheriff after my military service.

I hold Enforcement in high regard. HM looks to favor stupid places when they try to be everything to everyone, and play the right games

And they make it so, to promote the most harmful, least sustainable levels of commercial harvest.

Shame on Region Six and Five Staff for buying into this garbage!!!

Ummmm, how do you know there are no asian officers, or black, or others? I gotta call BS on this. You got some nerve. I personally know there is an Asian officer in Mill Creek region 4.

You are pretty ignorant, WDFW officers have one of the hardest jobs of ANY LEO in WA State, and for you to spout off about dope grows and how they shouldn't be looking for that is just moronic. Last time I checked growing dope is illegal, and they do encounter this "IN THE FIELD" where they belong. What are they suppose to do when they are investigating a fish and wildlife violation and come across a field of dope, on our public lands? Get a clue, the budget is drained. These guys do a great job and if that involves busting dope growers, or catching DUI's then so be it.

BTW, their uniforms say WDFW Enforcement Officer.

The problem is NOT WDFW officers, the problems lie with the department itself, and the politics of this corrupt state, and the corrupt public officials that keep getting re-elected.

FishOrDie

THIS REALLY TICKS ME OFF!
I want to know where you got your information because it is INCORRECT!

There has been an asian officer with WDFW up in Clallam County since the mid 70's and he is still to this day working for the agency. Last year the agency hired another asian officer and he is in Snohomish County.

As for indian (native) officers there are several within WDFW enforcement, in fact they make up 3% of the enforcement department.

African americans and middle easterns are the least likely to work in law enforcement and that is a proven fact!

Do not believe this guy he is feeding you misinformation. If you want the true facts send me a pm!

The governor recently announced a "natural resource reform plan" which would move WDFW Officers to WSP, without our resistance it IS going to happen

WDFW used to have a reserve program until about 10 years ago when the agency cut it for many reasons including safety and funding (of course). So it is actually not a new idea

You are not following me, we need more "Game Wardens" Not Cops, they are spread way to thin and are over worked and often times alone on an island out there trying to do a job to protect "our" resources which we should be doing alot more to protect. We need to attack this at the highest level, there is no where near enough "boots on the ground" or as we said when I was in the army " trigger pullers" Less manangement and more officers and information officers !!!
Pretty simple eqaution !! and bigman, YOU ARE WRONG !!!
Got my info from the inside !!!

Peace
Fly

So would you like me to provide you the names and email addresses of the Asian and Indian officers so you can tell them yourself that no Asian and Indian officer works for WDFW? This is pretty amazing considering I have worked with one of the asian officers and two of the indian officers in the past 2 months.... Who is your "
inside" source?

I admit I do agree with you on this issue. Prior to this decade WDFW Officers were only able to enforce hunting and fishing laws. However in the past 10 years WDFW Officers became general authority officers which means they can enforce any law of the state no matter if it's traffic, drugs, and so on. The thought was that WDFW Officers come in contact with general authority crimes all the time while in the woods (especially drug and alcohol violations) and instead of having to call the WSP or Sheriff Dept to respond to handle the situation the legislature gave WDFW Officers the authority to handle any criminal activities by thereself. Great idea however some officers have taken it to the extreme. There are some WDFW Officers who make traffic stops for things such as expired tabs, stop sign violations, speeding and so on. Should a WDFW Officer be doing that? Probably not. Now if a person was DUI would I want a WDFW Officer to stop the person, yes because they are dangerous.

I have worked with officers from many different natural resource agencies across the country and I have noticed one thing. In agencies where the officers have full police authority (and most in the US now do) the younger officers tend to be more like police officers (enforcing all laws) and the older officers tend to be more like game wardens (sticking strictly to fish and wildlife laws)

aside from the racial issues
i can only remember 2 possibly 3 encounters with game wardens since about 1965
granted i don't fish but a dozen or two time out of the year but it seems i see people fishing illegally/snagging almost every time i do get out and zero enforcement

while watching the news tonight i see 6 wardens/wdfw/? they call them now with their thumbs up their asses and their brand new suv's trying to trap a bear in bremerton ?

it would seem to me that a overweight short ugly warden with camo pants could walk up or down any river on the west side and write at least $5 g a day in tickets to pay his/her and 3-4 office personal wages

more feet on the ground regardless of race would be nice

The reason why they were at the bear issue you saw on tv is because WDFW officers top priority is public safety and bears/cougars in a city is considered public safety. They are mandated (by law) to report to a public safety issue before they do any fish/wildlife enforcement. May sound dump to some, however when there is a bear running through Seattle (like there was this year) and the public asks where are the WDFW Officers and they say "o we were just checking fishing licenses on the river" i think we know what kind of a public relations mess that will be...

GW's should be just that. Looking out for wildlife infractions, and NOT COPS. They should be bitchslapping poachers and educating the public, and not waiting at a boat launch and writing dad up in front of the family for one crab that's a 1/64th" too small. They have a tough job that Im certain of.

I heard that GW's are now being trained at the WSP academy. Anyong know if that is true or false???

In all the years I've been fishing, I have not once been checked by a GW. I've been checked hunting a couple times, but never while fishing.

In BC, I've been checked by fisheries a few times and a LOT by fish counters.

WDFW Officers do not attend the WSP academy, they actually attend the Basic Law Enforcement Academy (BLEA) in Burien. Only WSP troopers go to the WSP academy, all other police/sheriff/WDFW/DNR Officers go to BLEA. The WSP academy is about 6 months long, BLEA is about 4.5.

If you are going to say that WDFW Officers should not go to a police academy, then that is just not possible. Every law enforcement officer in the state must go to some type of police academy. State park rangers go to a state park ranger academy that is ran the same way as BLEA just not accredited by the BLEA academy. Gambling Commision agents go to BLEA, Liquor Control officers go to BLEA and so on. So WDFW DOES have to send their officers to BLEA

bigman? where do you work? affiliated with? whats your story?

I prefer not to say in the open forum, I will send you a PM though.

thats cool
it's a bit obvious you are not river boat pilot

hahaha
as i said
not a river boat pilot
good to see you posting bigman
even if your handle is a bit ? yea, that

Thanks for the info bigman. I know they need to go through some sort of formal training.

It just seems like they act like cops. Maybe my expectations of what they "Should be" are wrong

Area 7 has some good game wardens, however they do allot of patrolling out around tokul creek, tolt river and the snoqualmie river. I have seen them out on the Snoqualmie atleast a dozen times in the last year. I have only encountered 1 game warden on the Snohomish/Skykomish however, and that is after i called to report multiple Russian poachers that where fishing on the Wallace river under the railroad/bonking wild springers.
However i have several game wardens personal numbers on my cell phone, and i have made several calls: Particularly to Game Warden Jason and he is on it every time, mad props to him...

I've known people who've worked for WDFW, and if there's one dept that's run on a shoestring, it WDFW. They were driving 1980's old enforcement Blazers held together with duct tape and leaking fluids. There's some areas in this state where there's one Gamey for an area the size of Rhode Island. At least that's how it used to be. Its not like WDFW gets Fed grants like DOT, can sell timber or shellfish like DNR, set up speed traps like Dept of Revenue (WSP), generate interest like DRS, or collect payroll taxes like L&I. They get by off budget scraps.

If you don't like the level of services, don't vote for Eyman initiatives and complain about taxes.

Your right Irie, my best friend is a trooper and he said its the running joke, they call themselves tax collectors because he said they are directed to write tickets and collect revenue !!!

Peace
Fly

Your "best friend" is a trooper? I doubt it.

Dam Hoh.

You and I both know Joe well.

For some reason, it doesnt suprise me at all.

Actually, this is Sol at Hoh's house. I forgot to log him off.