The Ultimate Hangback (vid)

For a while now I've been advocating the merits of the hangback rigging for salmon trolling.

Finally came across an underwater video of a coho caught on "bare" hooks. I gotta admit the video was never actually intended to be a demo of my hangback technique. In fact, the hooks are actually rigged in standard, closely spaced mooching fashion. But just keep watching because the video goes on to demonstrate the ultimate hangback "floss job" of the same over-achieving kamikaze coho that gets caught with an EXTREMELY exaggerated "hangback" of about 3 ft.

I've tried to explain the mechanics of hangback "flossing" on willful biters numerous times to people who still don't get it, or flat out REFUSE to believe that's really how it works. See for yourself! A moving picture is worth a bazillion words!

Watch as a couple of small jack kings take a stab at the trolled dodger and herring combo.... first swiping at the dodger, then repeatedly at the over-sized herring (well, over-sized for the jack).

Then along comes the adult coho for its shot. Notice how the salmon follows from behind, but when it finally decides to make its assault, it lunges forward off to one side and slashes at the bait from the right side of your screen, then it swims off with the bait. It doesn't get hooked because from the coho's chosen approach, the business end of the mooching rig was literally "shielded" by the bait. Not only does the coho NOT get hooked, but it strips the bait from the hooks altogether. DANG! Had the coho approached from the opposite side, it probably would have been hooked.

(NOTE: Had that herring been rigged "hangback" with a fully exposed trailer hook, that fish could have been hooked from EITHER approach!)

But all is not lost! Notice how without the restrictive heavy load of the stolen herring, the dodger's kicking action suddenly comes to full life. Mr. Overachiever Coho is now stimulated into another attack on the bare dodger!

He comes back for a look at the tantalizing dance of bent metal, and curiously bumps the dodger to size it up. Comes back for a second look and gives it a tentative nip to see what it's really made of. Then he decides, "Holy smokes that thing is still kicking.... I'm gonna show it who's boss!" Coho lunges forward one last time and bolts at the dodger with a full broadside assault, once again from the right side of your screen.

As the flat smooth plate of hookless trolled metal slips out of Mr Coho's jaws, he gets "flossed" by the trailing leader. With coho broadside to the axis of the troll path, it takes less than a second for three feet of leader to slide thru his jaws.... only to have the bare mooching hook end up skewering him in the hinge of the jaw from the outside in. Incredible footage and a perfect video demo of the mechanics of my hangback technique!

http://muttleycrewfishing.com/web_media/coho_gets_hooked_by_bare_hook_after_stealing_herring.wmv


I played with hangback spoons in my swimming pool a few months ago thinking that would be a really good way to rig Coyotes and North Point Nailers for ocean trolling. This video is proof in my eyes that it will be absolutely killer!

Remember the ultimate merits of hangback rigging are for the benefit of the fish! Outside in eliminates the risk of mortal vascular hookups thru the tongue and/or gill arches. It also results in the most easily accessible hookup site to easily and instantly release that fish with an elegant no-touch technique.

For the sake of the fish... just do it!

...and how far back off a spoon would you run the leader/hook set-up...

I had my spoons rigged with a 4-5" trailer.

The vid just affirms that it can be a lot LONGER than that and still work just fine!

Someone on Ifish postulated that this might be the mechanism for the Lake WA sockeye fishery. Never done it, but I'm curious to know if veterans of the fishery have ever noticed if the fish are hooked outside in?

Maybe it's also the mechanism for the "magic" beads that folks troll at Neah and Sekiu.

cool vid but it's miss titled. that's a King







































Hang backs rule.

Think I'll rig something up for the salmon seasons. I have a couple of the new Brad's Cut Plugs and may tie up a hang back on one of them. When mooching, I'll let the trailing hook dangle, but usually not too far past the tail. Guess I'll lengthen that set-up, too.

From my experience, hang backs are almost 100% effective.

that fish wanted that thing know matter what..

What a learning experience...... Thanks for posting..........H

Doc,
We were fishing B.C. king a few years ago, and the lodge provided these huge herring for bait. I tied up 100 leaders for the group with a hang-back hook for these large herring. We ran out of big bait, and the supply barge brought in a much smaller bait for the lodge. Hook-ups went way up with a longer hang-back, with the hook set you describe. Because of the bait or because of the hook???, but I tie all hang back now and the results have been good. With the bigger bait the hooks can be 16" apart. Might try more space based on your video.

Also, the teeth on those kings can raise hell on a leader. Outside-In-hookups relieve leader wear, the front hook often imbeds elsewhere during the fight, and if it helps the lost or released fish, "JUST DO IT!"

Thanks for the feedback, ned.

The one drawback as you start to lengthen that trailer back there is just like as you said. The top hook will often stick in the most exposed/convenient spot.

For me, with a 8-9" hangback it's the pec fin on a 20-30# king. Trailer sticks in the max plate, but if the fish turns just right during the fight, the top hook will find that exposed "wing" on the same side. Makes the fight a bit tougher as it becomes very difficult to turn a fish "off axis" so to speak. Fish tends to come in doing the mega spiral of a whole bait herring.

With an even longer hangback, I've occasionally also managed to find the ventral fin on smallish coho with the top hook. I would think that 16" of hangback would have that occurring more frequently with med-large coho, and smallish kings as well.

I'd recommend you hang that hook back just far enough that you KNOW it stays just outside the mouth on the biggest fish you are likely to encounter.

I tried the hang back hook last year at Westport mooching. It seemed we just left one more hook in the fish that took it deep. Maybe trolling or hoochies might be different but with bait they seemed to just take the third hook even deeper.

Three hooks?

That must be the obvious difference. I've only ever rigged with two.

The front hook is just there to tow the bait... in my experience, it rarely ever catches the fish. It's just basically there to hold the bait.

It's infinitely more likely that the second hook is the one that's gonna catch the fish. If tied short with the trailing hook placed within or alongside the bait (ahead of the tail), that hook is also gonna get taken deep when Mr Salmon tries to ingest your bait. That's where the standard mooching rig is going to incur the lion's share of mortal bleeders. Hanging the hook back well beyond the tail ensures the second hook is almost NEVER taken within the fish's mouth.

Going to a third "hangback" hook really isn't a hangback rigging at all.... it's just another hook added to an already lethal standard mooching rig.

Bottom line, the key to not mortally wounding fish when fishing ANY type of bait is to NOT bait the hook that is going to catch the fish.

Cool video!

Are the mechanics different with a flasher? It seems like the dodger only moves the line in 1 plane. With a flasher moving the line in 2 because of the full rotation, how would you compensate? Or, does it not matter, as the fish will keep attacking until it gets "lucky" and flosses itself?

Thanks for posting that. I am definitely going to give it a go. Looks like it will make releasing those native coho a lot easier.

I always knew you were a flosser at heart Doc...

Isn't this essentially how all Lake WA sockeye are caught, by flossing 'em with a single hook?

Is using three single hooks legal?

Ike

LOL! Hmmmm. I've been fishing in Alaska now for almost 20 years and have caught a lot of salmon and that one was definitely a silver. At least it was when I got it in the boat.

I find this thread quite amusing since I shot the video. Did any of you ever think about contacting me to ask me what method was used.

Not to be disparaging, Doc, but the rear hook point is totally exposed. It sticks out of the herring on the bottom just in front of the tail. That particular day I was using herring that had been thawed for a couple of days (don't ask!) and it just wasn't staying on my hooks very well. The silver just happened to knock it off and then came back for more. Thankfully.

I've watched about 100 videos like this that I've shot over the last 10 years or so and that is the place that is most likely to catch silvers other than the front hook. I have found that leaving the trailing hook totally exposed just doesn't work quite as well since silvers that I've seen on my videos often times hit the herring from the side and a "hang back" hook misses those aggressive strikes. Also, I don't know about Washington and Oregon, but here in K-Bay and Cook Inlet there are rules regarding snagging fish. I'd rather miss one than have to release one that I caught in the belly.

If anyone has any questions about my videos please feel free to contact me. I'm more than happy to discuss them.

Sorry to dispute this, but in my experience the front hook catches about 90% of the fish I bring into my boat. The trailing hook is usually in the fish's throat with the rest of the herring.

I think you're missing the point about hangback, Dave.

Your short-spaced hooks are definitely NOT the "hangback' style I am referring to. If the spacing of hooks fall within the full length of the bait, the hooks will be ingested just as you describe. The hookup will be inside out and highly likely to be deep.

The hangback technique I promote fully exposes the trailing hook COMPLETELY behind the bait with the express intent of hooking that fish from the outside in with the trailing hook.



We have rules in WA against snagging, too. Willful take is the first and utmost requirement.... followed by anywhere in the head.



That last pic is definitely an exceptional hookup, but I use it only to make a point about a legal WA hookup on a willful biter. 95%-plus of all the biters I hook are "flossed" with the LONG trailing hook (just like the coho in your video) and end up hooked from the outside in somewhere in the maxilla or mandible.

I too have an under water camera, I think I picked it up about 15 years ago and I can say for sure that flossing is not what happens with Lake Washington Sockeye, but there are many misconceptions on the set up.

Sockeye will follow the hooks, not the dodger, in fact I've never seen one attack the dodger. Up to five or six will come up behind the hook and at times each will take a turn at tasting it, they will swim up, take the hook in their mouth, hold it for split second and then spit it out and you will never know it happened without the camera.

The reason for the short leader is because at the very slow speed used for these fish the dodger doesn't move much, this results in little movement of the hooks. The only reason they get hooked is because the hook moves and pokes them, then comes the head shake and hook set. With a long leader just as many fish took the hook into their mouths, but the hook never moved, or if it did it was too little and too late, with a short leader the hook moves much more, resulting in the hook set.

Sometimes we watch the camera and hold the rod, as the fish just starts to take the hook into its mouth you pull, this improves the hook up rate.


I have not used the camera on lake Sammamish Kings, but I use the same bare hook rig and they seem to be hooked in the mouth.

Most salmon will bump into the camera and show no concern for it, but steelhead will stay clear, at least I've never been able to get one to come after a bait with a camera close enough to see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback on the sockeye "takes"... certainly NOT a hangback mechanism at work there.

Pretty interesting that they find the bare hooks so attractive. I would think something sparkly like Krystal Flash tied sparsely to the hook would look more like shrimp feelers/antennae.

What would be a good way to rig a hangback to a spoon?

I can't say that using anything on the hook really helped, it seemed that about the same number of fish came after the bare hook as a decorated one.

I tied a reverse Nushagak knot in 40# Max UG with a 5" loop exiting forward thru the hookeye of a mooching hook. I then put the loop into the trailing split ring.

Then I got to thinking how much chafing that would undergo over the course of a fishing day.

A better plan is to use the loop to tie a Palomar to a Duolock snap. This eliminates chafing and gives you the full strength of doubled 40# Max UG to the hook.

Snap the entire hangback rig onto the butt end of the spoon. VOILA!

Looks killer in the pool!

It's kind of a joke around here. I believe you.
We fish where we need to release a lot of the fish we catch down here. Not hooking a fish inside of the mouth is a bit of the goal.

The problem is the fish was actually hooked INSIDE the mouth and not from the outside in like you say. I remember it very well because I was really surprised to see the hook inside its mouth.

I don't know about Washington laws, and I have no qualms about snagging fish where legal, so don't get me wrong, but where I fish the law states that the fish has to be "hooked in the mouth" (exact wording from the regs), so it doesn't matter much what the fish was "willfully" trying to do. I wish it was like that here because I've thrown back some nice fish that have been obviously hooked elsewhere in their body.

Hey bb, just curious, any feedback on how the hangback spooning went this last year.

I had excellent success once I figured out I need a minimum of 50# Max UG to prevent chew offs.

Never did deploy any of the hangbacks with double 40# to palomar to snap that I described and played around with pre-season. Gotta remember that next year.

Hangback spoons produced admirably in the ocean, inside the jaws, as well as upriver. EVERY fish strategically hooked from the outside in without a single mortal bleeder in the bunch!

I am definitely sold!

The 2011 hangback spoon season starts in earnest on June 18 for me.... can't wait!

Doc

I missed your post/question last winter. Being a creature of habit, I didn't try the set-up. I will be trying it this year, though. I've got an idea I need to play with. If it works, I'll let you know.

BTW the setup in the pics is 50# Max UG snelled to a sickle then tied to a stout barrel swivel. A mini hoochie was slipped over the barrel swivel and the whole works was then attached to the stock split ring on the spoon.

FYI rigging hangback removes much of the direct mass from the butt end of the spoon that would normally slow the action down a bit. Adding the swivel/hoochie helps to compensate for that by restoring mass to the butt end.

Don't know if this is what is happening for those that use the pair of bare hooks on a short/snappy leader behind a flasher for these fish. OTOH, I generally tend to look at where the hooks are, and I don't recall every seeing any were I'd say "Yup, that one was flossed for sure!"

But, I can say that this is NOT happening when one uses a Michael Bait behind a hotspot, trolled as fast as humanly possible, as all of the lake fish are gaffed up in the mouth, through the eye, through the tongue, with a big 2/0 siwash hook.