Room temp pellicle formation?

Been smoking salmon for years but recently tried Tom Nelson's recipe and was blown away.... Perfect balance of sweet/salt... THat said, I've always refrigerated fish after taking from the brine to form the pellicle... Nelson states he leaves his at room temp for 18 to 24 hours before smoking??? Am I just paranoid or is this totally safe? Inquiring mind wants to know if the room temp air dry is dangerous?

i air dry mine at room temp for 1-2 hours then smoke...

squaw candy, the REAL squaw candy, takes 20+ days to do, and theres no issue with it, leaving it outside next to a fire to dry and smoke, the recipe you are talking about should be OK.. start at 10 or 12 hours and see what you come up with...

I've never made anybody sick.

Full? Yes... but sick... Nope.

If you've ever been to central Alaska and have seen how the native Alaskans do it... 18 to 24 hours at room temp ain't a big deal with salt & sugar cured fish.

Happy smokin' Buggy!

Good news!

I find that a pellicle forms in the smoker, I just take mine from the brine, pat dry with paper towels, and stick it in the smoker for 18-24hrs, depending on the thickness of the chunks...

Best I ever had was from a native woman from Homer, she cold smoked it for a week, the brine included Jim Beam and pineapple juice as the "secret" ingrdients. It weas a deep mahogany all the way thru, and ambrosial!

Recently did a batch of fish and am done with short-changing (skipping) the pellicle forming process.

I tried putting the fish racks in the kitchen with the box fan blowing on them. Ran out of time, but it was working. After an hour, the fish was getting tacky, but not quite right. Smoked it anyway. This batch turned out better than my average albumen-streaked but tasty fish. I'm going for appearance now.

Letting racks of fish sit on the kitchen counter for 3-4 hours or more is problematic.

The garage has lots of work bench space (Clean...it has a 10' kitchen counter/sink like a kitchen). The problem there is the air is potentially polluted with dog hair or sawdust.

Outside, well....it rains. The easy-up shade thing is an option.

Wife informed me that the wall oven has a dehydrator function. Going to give it a try.

Curious how the rest of you have conquered the challenge of open-air drying.

Thanks,

Mike

I put it in the garage or on the covered back porch for a few hours. Quit doing the kitchen thing due to the garlic I put in the brine.

I do mine inside on the counter, two big chief racks at a time, I give the pellicle forming time for 4 to 6 hours at room temp., never had any issues after 35+ years. I smoke at a low temp. by adjusting voltage so my fish is preserved and smoked, not cooked. The salt brine is doing your preserving, the smoker is for flavor addition and more importantly, moisture removal. I'll rotate racks every 6 or 7 hours letting the water that is being accumulating on top of fish pour off by tilting during rotation. Amazing amount of moisture is pulled out by doing this. Good luck and good eating! Bob R

I do it in my shop fridge for 18+ hours usually about 24.

I wish I could use the kitchen counter, but my wife would freak, the shop counter is plenty big but the cats would attack it.

Pellicle is A1 important.

Patience thru pellicle formation is KEY.

Not just for appearance, but for S-M-O-O-T-H internal texture in the final product.

If you like sawdust smoked fish, then it really doesn't matter.

It'll just look ugly AND taste bad.

I take it from brine and rinse then to the racks. I let sit overnight on the racks, in my smoker. Then smoke the next day.

I never do this and my smoked fish always turns out incredible.

Bingo!

Here is a link to the Recipe/process

I am 100% with Ryley. (6666 posts!) Never bothered with it. Seems unwise to leave food out like that. I will put my smoked fish up against any!

Too many variables too many different methods being used to say one person is right or wrong. A wet brine with a high heat smoke could start with a low moisture meat because the brine cured it. Someone else like less salt and the same process could yield a higher moisture content meat that needs to lose moisture before smoking. Every batch is different for me I use a dry brine and a low temp smoke . Some of the fish has to brine longer than other fish to yeilds the moisture content I like before I smoke. I like it real dry before it hits the smoker. So I brine for 4 to 5 days and dump moisture from the fish daily and rotate in the brine. Same for pepperoni , landjager and Salami and prosciutto's if I treated every batch the same I would get inconsistent results. I have to read the batch and make adjustments based on what I see. I do not cure any meat above 40 degrees that is universal.

My smoker has plated, carbon steel racks.
If no skin present,and where the plating has worn, I will get carbon staining on the product.
Not the end of the world, but ugly.

I've never tried stainless steel racks...maybe that would help avoid the stain.

There are also smoking mats...like a synthetic mesh that might be the answer.

The best solution of course is to leave the skin on next time and smoke skin side down.
If your brine has a salty tendency, cut back on the salt or shorten the soak time.

Better yet, start using the "dry" brine method.
Here's one...
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=64066


The importance of establishing pellicle explained herein...
http://honest-food.net/2012/08/12/how-to-smoke-salmon-recipe/

Failing pellicle and temp control will yield cooked (not smoked) product, garnished with that fugly white curd (albumin).
Not fatal, but upper tier fugly.

http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/pdf_Files/smokingyourcatch.pdf

J F C, Ryley post up ASAP before something really bad happens.

In medicine, a bunch of bureaucratic pinheads got together and assigned a 5 digit code to every known human affliction (International Classification of Disease) For zhits and giggles, early in my medical school days I looked up the code for 666.66. It wasn't good.

Something along the lines of menometrorrhagia.... uncontrolled raging female bleeding from psycho-bitchiness or some such thing.

I'd post up quick, dude.

And right next to it in the big book.... "Chimney Syndrome"

Yeah... what he said.

BUTT f'ugly and dry as saw dust.

Nuthin' a blindfold and a little K-Y or AstroGlide can't fix.

I doubt that I cook any meat...fish, chicken, pork, beef...to anywhere near the AMA's recommendations...they'd rather I make it all look like charcoal before eating it.

I have always got a better result with letting my fish get a good pellicle on it before smoking...usually twelve hours in the shop, with a box fan blowing across it.

I rotate the racks every once in a while so that the ones closest to the fan don't get drier.

Fish on...

Todd

Yeah, I'm around 115F for most of the smoke.
Duration is usually around 14 hours +/-.
I don't think it would hurt to crank up the heat for the last hour, although I don't typically do it.

I did have a batch that was a little soft...would have benefited from the heat crank up.

I lol'd when I saw that you posted something about food safety...

Perpetually eating "on the edge" does a body good.

+1

Fish on...

Todd

I'll take your word for it.

That 14 day old clam performance was one for the record books.

Anyone for a bowl of tortilla chips and month-old "kim chee" salsa?

Overnight wet brine in the fridge, quick rinse in the morning, pat dry w/paper towels, 2 hr air dry in the fridge and then a 4-7 hr hot smoke usually gets me close to this………..

Pickle it!

This. I should put up the recipe,it's unbelievable.

So I have learned to keep it simple when it comes to fish. Sugar salt and water,brined overnight. I rinse and let it dry for at leats 8 hours and smoke in apple chips,and not much,I like a little less smoke . Maybe 2 pans.

I'll personally vouch for this dude's smoked summer runs... DEE LISH!

that looks good

I've been using half as much salt and a 2 day dry brine to achieve the proper amount of emulsification for the last several years with excellent results..give it a shot on your recipe.. my recipe is on recipe forum.

The Pickle Recipe is too easy. Piper shared some with me a couple summers ago and I have been hooked.

In Quart jars, fill with loosely packed bite size chunks of Coho. Add 5/8 cup salt. Fill with white vinegar. Wait 5+ days.

Rinse . Repack in large mouth pints alternating with slices of onion. (I threw in some jalapenos in recent batch) .

Heat to boiling 2 cups vinegar (I am using cider) 1 cup sugar and 1 tbsp pickling spice (I use more). Throw in some ice to cool. Fill jars. Seal tight. Wait another week. Enjoy.

All my fish are skinless and boneless before going into the brine. It works great. I'll still brine for 2 days. Keep the temperature low at the start too avoid the curd.

Even an old dog can learn new tricks. Maybe.

After reading through this and some of the things referenced, I think I have learned a few things. I have always thought the "ugly white curd" was fat coming out of the fish. Although it has never bothered me, nor anyone to whom I have gifted much fish, I think I will try drying my fish a while.

I have taken the fish out of the brine. (in since this time yesterday)
It's in the fridge til around this time tomorrow, onto the racks and into the garage until Monday AM. Then into my too hot smoker for too long .

Pictures Monday. (but only if it's not butt ugly sawdust smoked looking )

That's some of the prettiest smoked fish I have seen in a while.
Nice job....I know it tastes awesome.
chuck

The white stuff is protein and can still come out after air drying if the smoker gets too hot.

Whats the white stuff in Seagull [Bleeeeep!]? Ha!

I'd pay for that

Thanks for the kind words.

Speaking of paying, I'm in Top Foods doing groceries recently and in the seafood isle is a 2 lb. chunk of smoked king…….$40.00!!!

What a racket!

One more, for what its worth.

I have always had rapid pellicle formation at room temperature.

I use a dry pack method that removes a lot of moisture -
50%/50% rock salt and brown sugar + fair amount of lemon pepper

I roll damp filets in the mixture coating all exposed flesh, pack them - first row skin down, then flesh-to-flesh and skin-to-skin in a glass bowl. Depending on filet thickness (skin on), 4-6 hours on the counter, 6-10hr in the fridge for pack time, with a restack (top to bottom) at the 1/2 way mark. Liquid extraction is significant.

After "brine" , rinse, pat dry and rack. Pellicle forms in 30-60 min at room temp. I usually give it 1-2 hours.

I use a shake and bake little chief that is wrapped in 3/4" insulation and is pretty much set up for winter only smoking (40 degrees and lower) typically 12-18 hours, with three pans of apple mixed with alder for chips.

I brined with my usual recipe. I did let it air dry in the garage for 12+ hours. I also didn't smoke as long as usual so it is much softer. I think I prefer it a little drier. It certainly didn't stick to the racks. That alone is worth the time to air dry. I still have some white stuff. I guess that is from the temperature I smoke at.

Not nearly as beautiful as Eric's, but ...

I was originally just worried about bacteria formation doing such a prolonged room temp dry time. Guess I shouldn't worry about a 12 hour room temp dry?

Gutz - That looks good! The sliced fillet is a neat idea. Probably makes serving it a lot cleaner/appealing.

The yellow screen under the fish in the top photo. Is that silicone?

Thanks,

Mike

Thanks Fever.
I have cut to the skin for a long time. Seems to get brined better that way.

Drying screens

http://www.sportco.com/store/pc/Smokehouse-Big-Chief-Drying-Screens-914p43895.htm

I also put the cuts in the fillet and it works great! I also on occasion have skinned and cut into strips aprox 1 inch by 1 inch, this works real well, and you have no skin to dispose of while eating. One other thing, once you use the screens you will never go back....they work GREAT!!!

Very nice lookin' sammin Eric !


Look Ma, deep red and no curd !

Hey, all bacteria ain't bad.... ya know what I'm say'n?

Let's talk about 10 day poke, lol

batch that's smoking now was left in the garage on the smoker racks for 8 hours overnight, this morning I put a fan on it for 45 minutes then brought the rack in the house to "warm up" the product a bit before putting it in the smoker.

GENIUS....

YOU FOUND IT!

Like the video snippet says, without fermentation we'd all be living a life "un-cultured"

Right, fp?

I usually will lightly rinse the dry brine from the fish, pat dry then put fish on a rack and use a small oscillating fan to help move the air around. It usually takes about 2hrs to get a nice pellicle to form at room temp.
I dont think it matters which route you go, as long as you can get that pellicle to form.
I got some I am tending to right now, about another 30 min and ready to pop in the smoker.

Been using TJ Nelson's recipe for years and I am still alive. I even dry it in the middle of the summer in my garage for 24 hours. Maybe I have been cheating death, but the fish sure turns out good. Biggest concern, keeping flies and other bugs off of it, also don't trust the occasional mouse that gets in the garage, but if I don't see it, no worries.