Occupy Skagit

Copied from other fishing bulletin boards:

On April 6, 2013 a number of people will be staging a protest over the closure of the Skagit River to catch and release season for steelhead which ran until the end of April. We would like to see WDFW reinstate this season. We feel the reasons WDFW used to justify the closure are flawed and the c&r season does little to no harm to the Skagit steelhead. Closing the river only serves to deny us of yet one more oportunity to fish. If you care to join us we are billing this little protest as "Occupy Skagit". The goal is to get as many people as we can to show up and "fish" the Skagit on April 6th. Nothing illegal, no hooks allowed. As one fisherman put it; "If WDFW is going to pretend to manage our fish, I am going to pretend to fish for them." This is a somewhat organized event. We are planning to notify certain media outlets and also show up at the commisioner's meeting the following week. Please join us.

I think we need to get a banner or T-shirts or hats with that slogan printed on them. It is a classic line.

I will be there. I can take turns casting a hookless Rvrfshr spoon and a hookless Intruder.

"Occupy Skagit" Sounds like some good casting practice.
I might show up.

That's my birthday, and that's where I spent my birthday for fifteen straight years, give or take...until it closed a few years ago.

I've heard rumors about the numbers the last couple of years, and those rumors, if true, would be good enough to re-open the river thru April.

I plan on being there.

There is also an "Occupy Skagit" facebook page here:

https://www.facebook.com/OccupySkagit?fref=ts

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,

The rumors are just that - rumors. Last spring the 6,000 escapement goal was exceeded by a small amount. Other years haven't even been close, and this year is predicted to be considerably less than last year. All three brood years that go into the forecast were very low.

Still, since fly fishing is notorious on this BB for not catching steelhead, I think the Skagit would still be a great place to go not catch them, or not, as the case may be.

Sg

Catcherman,

If you think Occupy Skagit is classic, have you heard who's behind it?

Steel Team Six.

So, I could legally dump the boat in and pull hookless plugs? That could be A LOT of fun seeing some super hard take downs. This sounds interesting...maybe if it works out ok, an "Occupy Skykomish" could be in order? The year I got into steelheading was the first year the C&R season on the Sky was closed, or maybe the year before? I've only been steelheading for about 4 years now I guess.I didn't know enough about steelhead at the time to realize what a bummer that was.

it would take some pressure off the OP streams too having puget sound rivers open to catch and release as I'm sure everyone can agree. I feel like spreading pressure out would be much healthier than only having a few streams open.

yea....i live between the Skagit and Stilly and 50 miles from the Sauk. Got to do the catch and release thing one year when I bought my drift boat. Now just go to forks. It would be nice to do some steelheading in March and April around here.
I tink i try this occupy Skagit!

I fish with a guidde that gets fed up with management and described fishing wiht no hooks. It will be called biting. When the plug rod buckles, hey guys I think I had a bite! Nice we are 5 for 5 today. Looking good.

about time i wasthinkin somthin neededto be doneabout this extreme lackof managememt ability and iM reddy to feel the bumppulltugorgrab again. eXtrmely proficient steelheaD at eating plugg n boberdoggled offeringz to.missing speedo fishin mixer an chappel in apriL...
speakin of april Im needen too tie some vokeyinspired buggs, some hoggs in thet river.

Redd,

One step at a time, one river at a time. Since WDFW will probably feel obligated to send an agent to make sure protesters are indeed going hookless, I don't think it serves the cause well to have protests scattered across multiple river systems. The Skagit is a pretty large area to patrol as it is.

The philosophy of Occupy is that no one is in charge. You can set up your boat however you wish. So far I'm reading about hookless flies, hookless spoons, hookless plugs. Since the protest is about having a CNR season, I assume that means no bait. Oh, and your non-hooks have to be barbless.

Sg

So far I'd say count me in. I'll put the boat in, do some plugging and spoon some bars.

I think this is an outstanding idea to get WDFW attention and let them know how much we miss our beloved seasons. Our opportunities keep dwindling in front of our eyes and it seems all we can do is watch it happen.

If you deploy hookles gear dont be surprised if you are issued a harassment of wildlife ticket!!
Just saying

hmmm....meh, still worth it.

Definitely a worthy cause- fished for many years and cannot- it has had it's effect on many great guides that make a living on c&r season

Is there supposed to be a set location for us to all show up to?
Or are we all just going to run around the river and fish?

Rockport is always a good gathering spot

Open the Skagit for C&R!!! I watched a old school steelhead VHS recently where this guy fly fishes for steelhead on the Umpqua with no hooks, looked like alot of fun having the fish strike the fly multiple times without getting spooked.

Sounds like a good time to me and anything that can help to open our fisheries back up would be a good thing, Skagit, Sky, etc.

I'm not a lawyer and I'd like to fish all that water as much as anyone but I think this would clearly fall under "harassment" of an ESA threatened species.

I think bobbing around in a boat and being present would send a good message...casting without hooks would not, and I'd say there's a better than even chance that you'd be violating the law, too.

Fish on...

Todd

OS will talk with WDFW LE before the event. The un-official un-organizers intend a lawful protest.

Our unity in this event is where we can show the commission we can actually agree and support each other for all to gain. We can do this. Go to OS Facebook site ,upload photos,
join in conversation,and strengthen the cause...

Any one contact the tribe? They can use bottomless dip nets.

I really like this idea, but as a few have suggested, best make sure nobody that is participating per the "rules" gets made an example of by enforcement first.

I also like salmosalar's idea of hitting up a breakfast joint on the way there. If everyone participating makes a note to buy some sort of tackle from a local retailer and buy a meal at a local restaurant, the economic benefits associated with open sport seasons would be reiterated, yet again. Better yet, some could even book a stay at a local motel for the night before (or after, if you plan to throw back a few while participating). As a rule, no matter what you purchase in the area, mention to the clerk, etc. that you are in town for Occupy Skagit.

I'll keep an eye on the ol' calendar, and if things work out, I may just come out. I have been meaning to get up to the Skagit Valley for years; this seems like a great excuse.

I can think of one bar that has missed out of a lot of money from this closure and one grumpy 'ol man who is probably even grumpier now that it's been several years since he has had the opportunity to yell at me and my dog

I'm in!

So, just to play devil's advocate (sort of), what are the arguments in favor of opening up the C&R season?

Wouldn't it increase impacts/mortality on a threatened run that we all want to recover?

Go!

LOL!

I'm sure ol' J.O. has found plenty of other folks to yell at...but he sure did seem to make a career of cruising our camp and looking at you and your dog like you were child molesters

Fish on...

Todd

I think this is a valid question. We criticize WDFW for running the the fisheries into the ground but then beat them up when they close down a system that seems to need protecting. There may or may not be enough fish to warrant a fishery but the system certainly isn't "healthy".

This is a regular internal conflict for me.

Extremely salient question MPM. Why open the Skagit to CNR fishing? Well, when NMFS proposed listing Puget Sound steelhead, the agency noted that while past fishing and harvest had been a factor for decline, fishing, including the limited harvest allowed since the 1980s and 1990s were not a factor affecting stock status. That being the case, if previous CNR seasons did not adversely affect stock status and abundance, a reasonable thinker might conclude that CNR seasons going forward would not adversely affect stock status and abundance, nor inhibit steelhead survival and recovery (important ESA words there).

That would be the biological reason for re-opening the river's CNR seasons. The additional biological argument is that when the river is open to fishing, there are more eyes on the water, repressing the off season poaching that occurs, or reporting it when it's witnessed. The social argument is that it would increase the very scarce western WA opportunity for winter steelhead fishing, particularly in the PS region. The economic argument is that it would restore lost economic activity in the Skagit Valley, mainly in the form of motels, restaurants, gas stations, fishing guides, and so on.

The best argument for not re-opening the CNR seasons is that no fish ever benefited from having a hook stuck in its mouth. The next best reason for not re-opening the CNR seasons is that fisheries management is work. Since closing the fishery in 2010, WDFW has to produce a pre-season run size forecast in cooperation with the Skagit treaty tribes. Then they perform spawning surveys and calculate the spawning escapement. They don't have to deal with a single sport fisherman, you know, the group of license buying citizens that pay a significant portion of their salaries. You see, for a management agency, there isn't much of a downside to closing fishing, and it's less work. At least there isn't a downside so long as you don't peruse internet fishing bulletin boards and read that sport anglers are grumbling and complaining about closed waters and reduced fishing opportunity.

Did I miss anything?

Sg

Another biological reason would be reducing pressure (harvest and CnR) on OP stocks since they won't be the only rivers open. Actually, since the fishing pressure has little to no effect on the fish abundance there, too, it's probably more of a social benefit to spread out the fishing pressure more.

Fish on...

Todd

Yeppers Todd. Social benefit.

Angler crowding is a positive when measuring angler use. I've never seen a WDFW document where high angler density is described in other than positive terms. If high angler density on the OP ultimately results in over-harvest, then just close that or those rivers too. Problem solved. While opportunity is desirable, it's not essential to successful management. sorta' t.i.c.

Yeah, as far as the fish are concerned, it seems like opening the Skagit C&R system would maybe have a negative impact on the Skagit run (although perhaps minimal), but might have a positive impact on OP runs.

As far as poaching goes, my thinking was that it would be easier to identify poachers when the season is closed, since anybody fishing is poaching (or, at least, violating the law). I wonder if there are actually any reliable statistics for poaching during a closed season v. a C&R only season.

MPM, reliable statistics exist nowhere within fisheries management. With the exception of licensing dollars raised, of course.

MPM,

Maybe you're a genius and can tell me how a Skagit CNR season would have a negative impact on the Skagit steelhead run when NMFS official status review says that neither recreational nor treaty fishing has adversely affected the stock over the last 20 years. If so, I need that info. Heck, the NW Science Center needs that info.

Regarding poaching, I'll share a little secret. WDFW patrols rivers that are open to fishing more than they patrol rivers that are closed to fishing. Wanna' know who knows this? The poachers. And no, there are no good statistics.

Sky Guy,

Ow! Low blow man, low blow.

Sg

Salmo, the first rule about all Data is that data is dirty, and the data we have on escapement, harvest, etc is about as dirty as it gets! How an agency can make any type of decisions whilst acknowledging the data is manipulated inaccurate is difficult to understand. Erring on the side of caution is the best approach in this specific case.

It is difficult to tell when you are are being sarcastic most of the time, including now. Are you saying you personally agree that "neither recreational nor treaty fishing has adversely affected the stock over the last 20 years"? Or are you just stating their position?

Salmo g.,

As you mentioned, a hook in a fish's lip never did any good to the fish. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a C&R season might have a negative impact on the fish. You'll note I said that a C&R season "would maybe" have a minimal negative impact. Unless you think agency determinations are infallible (I'm pretty sure you don't), that's not really inconsistent with NMFS past findings, right?

I'm still skeptical on what effect closed v. C&R has on poaching.

Bob Hooten, a BC ateelhead manager, pushed hard and successfully to get C&R fisheries for BC steelhead. His comment to me, after seeing what happened in the 20+ years they were in place, is that they did NOT help the populations. Why, he doesn't know. But the runs did not increase.

So, while C&R certainly works for resident trout, sea-run cutthroat, and native char it does not seem to have helped steelhead.

On the other side, C&R certainly didn't harm the runs either. I would think tracking the numbers in his region would be quite the task with constant commercial gillnet fisheries coinciding with the steelhead run. The Tyee test fishery is only a "best guess" indicator and probably kills more steelhead than the C&R fishery by a long shot.

what's the Tyee test fishery?

The Tyee test fishery, I believe, is the one conducted on Skeena. The record is pretty clear up there that the various groups conducting net fisheries have hammered steelhead excessively.

I should have been more clear. The C&R area I was speaking of was Vancouver Island. The outside streams don't have net fisheries. Those on the inside do.

CM-
Hooten is correct of course; CnR season have not/did not help the Salish sea wild steelhead populations over the long haul (as measured as increased run size). But to be fair neither did reduced wild harvest, wild steelhead release, gear restrictions, shorter seasons, closed seasons, etc. Clearly other factors are also in play which seem to dominate/override potential benefits from reduce fishing impacts one would logically expect.

A huge factor has to be one of timing; when those things were being implemented these other factors (marine survivals being one example) were increasing their impacts.

To the board in general -
Do you expect that at some future date things like marine survival will improve and we may well see larger runs?

If those increases occur do you see some potential for some fishing opportunity?

Do you think a CnR season would be the one of the first approaches considered in any increased fishing opportunities?

If you answer yes to those questions how should the manager's proceed? As things are currently structured even if on the Skagit we were getting 10,000 wild fish a year back the season would remain essentially the same as most of the current allowable impacts (measured as a per cent of the run) are being used up.

Do we wait until the entire Puget Sound ESA listed populations are delisted? Or do we exaimine approaches similar to that used for Puget Sound Chinook where allowable impacts were determined for specific rivers based on the status and productivity of each of those stocks?

More to the point if we are going to look at an individual basin approach should the development of the criteria (a length process) under which any potential fishing can occur wait until there the runs have improved? or should that occur more proactive so that it would be in place when things improve so that potential fishing could happen years earlier? Any new approach will require a revamping of the allowable impacts as determined by NMFS and likely some modification of the WDFW Statewide Steelhead Management Plan (which by the way is 5 years old and is due for a review).

It should be obvious what the answers to those questions are for those supporting the "Occupy Skagit" movement! If your answers are different then continuing sitting on the bank doing nothing is probably the appropriate approach.

Why the Skagit?
In the context of Puget Sound steelhead the quality of its freshwater habitat ranks near the top, it was the poster child of wild steelhead CnR fishing, and it is likely the first large PS systen to see decent wild runs again (2012 saw the escapement goal exceeded). That combined with one of the more conservative wild steelhead escapement management makes the Skagit a logic starting point.

As always just a former steelheader's viewpoint.

Curt

As always Curt, thank you for your valuable insight. My wish is that someday I will have another chance to legally stand on the banks of the Sky in April and wet a line. Of course, it seems the Skagit would have a better shot at an opener and I wouldn't complain about that. I really miss the Sky the most when those monsters tested everything you had.

I also miss the Sky C&R season because before that the Skagit/Sauk C&R was damn near solitude. After the Sky C&R ended it was a zoo. No surprise but it was the first time I became aware of the "anglers flocking to the next trough" phenomena.

Sky Guy,

No argument that fisheries data is "dirty." However, the issue is whether the data are clean enough to use in analyses that support management decisions. To that, I think the Skagit steelhead data are sufficiently adequate. Precision is not necessary. Reliable year to year index data that vary in response to harvest and environmental inputs are "good enough" to manage anadromous fish populations. The claim that anadromous fish populations are mis-managed using that data is debatable according to point of view and management objective. The interests favoring increased conservation tend to be disappointed, while the interests that favor maximum harvest think the data and models work as intended.

AP,

Yes, it's hard to tell when I'm being sarcastic. I should use a different font or learn how to insert those emoticons. I was being both sarcastic and serious in that post. Sarcastic about MPM being a genius and serious about neither recreational and treaty fishing not adversely affecting the Skagit steelhead population over the last 20, heck, let's make that 30 years. Obviously, every steelhead taken by incidental fishing mortality or direct intended harvest was an adverse outcome for those fish. But that is very different than effects on the population overall. For those mortalities to have adversely affected the population, they would have needed to result in lower subsequent productivity. That wasn't the case. Population size ranged up and down with freshwater productivity generally independent of escapement size, meaning enough steelhead spawned to produce enough juveniles to seed most of the productive rearing habitat. By all indications, the adult population size has been constrained by ocean survival, particularly early marine survival, when compared to coastal steelhead populations. There is no good evidence that adult run sizes would have been larger had more fish spawned in the parent generation. That's why I'm fairly confident in agreeing with NMFS official review that neither recreational nor treaty harvest has adversely affected the wild steelhead population.

MPM,

Although you think it's reasonable to believe that CNR seasons might have an affect, I'm curious how that could be when the fisheries agencies have determined that actual harvests of steelhead haven't adversely affected the population. In that context it's a pretty long stretch to conclude that CNR seasons have any measurable adverse affect, particularly an affect that might limit population or DPS survival and recovery in ESA terms.

Sg

Angler pressure is rediculous. The way I see it, it needs to be spread out. Look at the Nooch this year. It's been a complete Sh!t show. Now wait til next year when there is no more early winter run fishery on the cowlitz. Where do you think all those people will go? I'm guessing the Nooch. if the bankies want to get to the other side of the river they'll be able to walk across the boats to get there. Haha.
And we're just talking hatchery fish there.

I feel that if some of the puget sound rivers and creeks had the C&R season reinstated it would really help spread pressure out. With the OP streams having a bonk a' Nate season it doesn't help that they are the only place to go either.

Can someone enlighten me on how the biologists get their numbers for wild fish on our puget sound rivers? I bet they would rethink their numbers if they went out with guides during peak run timing and fished bait for a day or pulled plugs. Being the only boat on the river I'd imagine they would hook quite a few.

These are just some thoughts from someone who doesn't yet know much about fisheries science (me). Just trying to fish and learn about the resource. Fishing the Sky in the spring is much more affordable for me than dragging the boat to the OP. If the C&R season was open on the Sky I feel like the amount of OP trips I personally take would be cut by 50% at least.

A chance to gain back a C&R season, Hell ya im in and i will have 5 or 6 more boats in on the action. I'm willing to stick up for whats right and for my childrens ability to enjoy what I have over the years.
As for mortality it is a case by case situation, if we as fisherman teach and educate each other and our youth on the way these fish should be handled (or lack there of) the mortality rate would not even exist.

I find it somewhat amusing that the people out fishing complain about all the people out fishing.

Agree 100%

I'm part of the problem and I try not to complain but it's so gut-wrenching sometimes that I almost feel like hanging up the rods for good, so I complain. A Skagit C&R season would be a nightmarish zoo this day in age but I would fish it for sure.

Seems to be a lot of hate toward WDFW when they are the ones in fact trying to get the feds to adopt a steelhead harvest management plan and change the 4.2% harvest rate. Without a steelhead harvest management plan in place, the only way to have a C&R fishery is to reduce take elsewhere, mostly from the tribes, and we should know by now that it is NOT an option.

from what I can tell, it all seems like a waste of good energy...

Steeliedrew- For steelhead, Bios count redds in the gravel throughout historical indexed stretches of river by foot, boat, and helicopter. For the areas outside of these indexes they use expansion equations and that right there is where the numbers get foggy. In an attempt to clear things up in the case of PS steelhead, WDFW has been looking at these outer areas (basin-wide) basin by basin, for the past 4 years. Steelhead tend to get caught multiple times which makes a strong case against your survey method ; )

So, can someone please tell me how WDFW could allow a C&R fishery on Skagit wild steelhead, or any other PS stock fro that matter?

It is not legal for them to do so. A C&R fishery is a "Direct Take" of an ESA-listed animal, you are targeting the wild fish. For those of you who are arguing that it's only catch and release, it doesn't matter much what the hooking mortality estimate is, if it's not 0% it's a direct take take under the ESA and it's currently not permissible. Right now all allowable impacts (4%) are used up to get at the early-winter hatchery fish from Marblemount. Those hatchery fish are the only reason anyone is fishing at all for steelhead in Puget Sound rivers. WDFW can get these "Indirect" fisheries permitted, because they are targeting the hatchery fish and are still managed to not exceed the 4% total impact on the wild fish.

Not trying to dismiss people's desire for the return of these fisheries, just trying to add some context to the discussion.

Just on the Skagit a few years ago there was a directed fishery on adult summer Chinook without a problem. What it took was federal approval of fishing plans that allowed such fisheries under very specific conditions that had been predetermined and approved as not representing a significant increase in risk of extinction of the population.

Then again on the Skagit the killing ESA listed bull trout (two a day over 20 inches) is allowed. Again this is federally approved and in the case of the bull trout (aka Dollies) the spawning abundances have increased rather dramatically under that regulation.

As always fisheries management can be complex and the devil is in the details. However I see no reasons that if the necessary was done and a plan approved that such a fishery could not occur under the approved conditions (for example on run sizes expected to exceed 6,000 spawners). The point in calling attention to the Skagit CnR via Occupy the Skagit is get the ball rolling on the development of such a plan in proactive matter so that when the populations rebounds things would be inplace for a fishery. Without that advance work any potential fishery will be even further in the future.

BTW -
Power companies, loggers, developers, etc are killing ESA listed fish each and every day via habitat impacts.

Curt

Curt,

Thanks for your answer. I was going to go on and detail the differences between the current STHD fishery situation, compared to the other listed species, but I felt I was already getting too "weedy" and boring for folks. I can't speak to a future Skagit fishery, I was mainly pointing out the current landscape and the current lack of options for WDFW.

Thanks

That says it all. Thanks for the articulate synopsis.

Seems the only way to save the wild fish is to STOP all hatchery plants of steelhead. At that point, there would be no fishery to incidentally take any wild fish.

Maybe give them a chance to recover?

OTOH, the greedy side would say plant a token run of late hatch fish to target.... and C&R the "incidental" wild bycatch.

JFC.... did I really just type that?

Must be the Sig's NW Ale talkin'

It's pretty clear to those of us who fish that no fish ever benefited by being hooked and caught by an angler. Complete preservation, of fish and their habitat, is the perfect solution from a fish's point of view. But OS is not about the fish's point of view.

OS is about steelheaders who would rather fish than see their favorite river closed to fishing forevermore. Realistically, that is the present outlook simply because there is no plan, and only a vague intent to plan, to ever open the Skagit to fishing for wild steelhead again. OS is about developing such a plan, as soon as possible, so that anglers may fish the Skagit again in their lifetimes.

The talk about recovery and letting the fish recover before fishing again is a discussion based on false assumptions and unrealistic expectations. Wild Skagit steelhead are a population in no particular need of recovery. What, you say, it's consistently produced runsizes lower than the escapement goal. Therefore that must mean the population needs to recover to a higher level, and must do so before any fishing can resume. Enter the false assumptions and unrealistic expectations.

Wild Skagit steelhead are the most abundant in Puget Sound. Since 1978 the runsize has averaged 7,822 fish, ranging from a low of around 2,600 to a high of 16,000. The spawning escapement has averaged 6,857 steelhead after harvest, both incidental and directed. As far as anyone can know for certain, this variation in population size is completely normal. There are good years, and there are bad years. Freshwater floods and droughts limit the outmigrating smolt population from year to year. The freshwater habitat has not really changed much in the last 30 years. Some parts have degraded further, and some parts have improved. On balance it would be hard to quantify any significant change. And marine survival factors limit the percent of smolts that survive to adulthood and return from the ocean each year. Given what we know about run sizes and escapement over a more than 30 year period, there is no logical reason to believe that wild Skagit steelhead runs will ever in the future consistently average above the present spawning escapement floor value.

The escapement goal is an artifact of uncertainty. The aggregate model that escapement goals were developed from in the 1980s calculated a Skagit spawning escapement goal far above 20,000. Since that seemed impractable and unrealistic, so biologists rather arbitrarily picked 10,000 as an escapement guideline. In the 1980s when marine survival was higher than it is now, that value appeared realistic. As more data were collected and analyzed, it was apparent from spawner - recruit analysis that the MSY/MSH escapement goal would be much lower, slightly less than 4,000. That seems low for such a large river basin, so the co-managers settled on 6,000 as a buffered escapement floor for some interim period. The take home message in this paragraph is that no relationship exists between the Skagit wild steelhead spawning escapment goal and the actual productivity and capacity of the Skagit River basin to produce steelhead. Please re-read the last sentence and be certain that you understand it.

The last paragraph means that the Skagit wild steelhead spawning escapement goal is arbitrary, and possibly capricious. It's meaning is primarily make believe then. This leads me to the question of for what purpose are Skagit steelhead managed? Is it strictly species preservation, like a petting zoo, except you can't actually pet the animals? Or is the purpose to conserve the population for the mutual long-term benefit of the species as well as human social and economic benefits. If the purpose is the former, then the present course is the one to stay on. If the latter, then a change is required.

OS is an evidence-based approach to steelhead management. Studies show that incidental mortality is significantly lower than the 10% value presently used by WDFW and NMFS. Skagit steelhead productivity shows that CNR seasons from 1981 through 2009 have no measurable effect on population size. Even the combination of CNR incidental mortality and the limited directed harvest indicate that fishing mortality has had no measurable effect on wild steelheaad population abundance over the past 30 years.

OS does not propose CNR fishing the Skagit run into extinction. The evidence strongly suggests that isn't possible. OS is simply pointing out that, above some arbitrarily selected threshold runsize, mangement regulations could permit CNR steelhead seasons to be implemented with no measurable risk to future population abundance. And during that period, anglers can obtain the social benefits associated with CNR fishing, and the local economy can benefit from added fishing activity. These benefits can be enjoyed while simultaneously conserving wild Skagit steelhead for as long as steelhead habitat is also conserved. It's just about that simple, but for the way the PS steelhead ESA listing aggregates Skagit steelhead. Just because change is hard does not mean change is not possible.

Sg

Good one Salmo.

Thanks.

Knowledge is power-thx for the boost SG, OS is lookin good on facts...we just need to be present!!

Steve,
Thanks for the excellent speech. It not only helps to understand the relationship between C&R fishing and returns, but also provides the historical context for how we arrived at such a situation as exists today.

Hopefully you don't mind if I copy it and spread it around where needed. (with full credit)

Salmo, thanks for your efforts and rationale on this. I responded on the other board cause I couldn't believe the Cowlitz BS that it turned into. I will be there and probably will use my 6wt with a skater. After all the purpose is to not catch fish! Not likely to get April steelhead but suspect the dollies will be all over that and if the surface take is all I get, that will still be fun. Considering camping at Rockport and would love to share a brew and meet fellow CR proponents.

HONESTLY...to a person that is in the know about what sometimes happens on this river...during catch and release season...or during the December/January open period.

It is best kept CLOSED...
how many times do you hear about someone getting nailed on the mighty Skagit poaching a steelhead. NOT VERY OFTEN ..if ever.

Honestly..... I routinely (this past winter) "more than once" sat a bar with other fishermen bragging about native steelhead meeting their ends at the hands of "sportfishermen" whom rationalize their behaviors with the 1974 bodt decision and the natives gillnet practices.

KEEP IT CLOSED.. PERIOD or there wont be any more.

I would love to see it open for a C&R, but it lets in the greedy white fishermen whom have to have it "now" even tho they can wait till the fall and have their fill of all the salmon they should need.

With this being said...i am caucasion.

It is best kept CLOSED...
how many times do you hear about someone getting nailed on the mighty Skagit poaching a steelhead. NOT VERY OFTEN ..if ever.

If the river is closed there aren't any law abiding fishermen on the river to report poachers.

Poaching will happen no matter what the regulations are. Always has and always will.

In spite of the years of poaching, the years of wild fish retention, the years of netting salmon, the years of C&R angling, the bountiful years and the very poor years, the last three decades of ever increasing human encroachment, the ever more efficient angling methods, the numerous floods and a host of other things - the Skagit population of wild steelhead is right on par with where it was 34 years ago.

The main thing we are not doing now that has been done for the past several decades is C&R fishing. Of all the things I listed above, C&R fishing is the least impactful to the future viability of the run. But other than wild fish retention, C&R angling is the only activity that has been shut down. In fact, every year it is the FIRST thing to get shut down.

OCCUPY SKAGIT!

Well put.

doubt it...if you let a catch and release season occur it opens it up to natives and their gill nets.

good luck....you and all ur pals will most likely get a ticket. And it will remain closed...despite your efforts.

ANOTHER WAY TO HELP!

One of the things we'd like to do on April 6th is collect names of those who support the movement to regain our C&R season on the Skagit. It will be something akin to a petition, but not binding, and will be carried to Olympia to help in illustrating how broad the support for this season is. For those of you unable to attend the Occupy or the Olympia meeting this is how you can still represent your support.

For this purpose we would like to get your name and home town – we do NOT need your full address.

To avoid duplicates, we ask you to reply by email and not to this thread. That way all the info is in one spot.

The email is: cr_skagit@yahoo.com

How can your bassin cousins help the cause?

There are three ways to get involved.

1. Show up in Rockport at The Howard Miller Steelhead Park the morning of April 6th and join us in some faux fishing.

2. Show up the following weekend in Olympia at the Commissioner's meeting and voice/show your support.

3. Send us an email with your name and hometown and we'll carry them to Olympia for you. cr_skagit@yahoo.com

Show up in Rockport and I will make sure you get a spey lesson from someone, even if I have to do it myself!

email sent

Thanks for the emails!
Keep 'em coming!!

For those of you who have expressed concern about the legalities of "Faux Fishing"

I talked with our local enforcement officer. They will be there and will probably check a few outfits before they go in to water. As long as there are no hooks everything will be fine. He respects our right to freedom of speech and wishes us the best of luck.

One concern they have is that folks who are not associated with us, will try to take advantage of the situation. I've known this particular agent for over twenty years - He plays no favorites. I feel sorry for the fool that gets caught actually fishing the Skagit on April 6th!

I look forward to seeing you all there!

Probably wouldn't need to renew my license, since we are just pretending to fish.

The lower river is open for trout now?
Is this so indians can net the river for their share? Seems a little weird to me.
Do you think this will take away from a catch and release season up stream??

It's open to fishing for cutthroat trout. Historically the river was open year-round below Mount Vernon. This is a return to that scenario. It is believed that ESA listed fish do not linger in this stretch making themselves vulnerable to capture.

This has nothing to do with tribal fishing.
I see no way that it can impact a C&R season upriver. That season is currently non-existent and prohibited by federal law.

Hopefully we can change that!


If you want to push your luck, that is your business...

It's coming up soon now! The Occupy is on Saturday and the commissioners meeting is the following weekend.

Those of you unable to attend either event can still have your support recognized by sending us an email with your name and hometown.
cr_skagit@yahoo.com

Many thanks to those of you that have taken the time, every single one of them is important!

Thank you Curt for your leadership and hard work!! See ya there....

Less that 48 hours away now! If you are too lazy to wade in maybe you can hold one of these:



Be seein' real soon now...:)

BroodBuster, Ikissmykiss, and I will be in Adirondack 1 at HMSP...we'll get there tomorrow night, be there all day Saturday, and head home on Sunday afternoon.

We're planning on floating from Marblemount to Rockport.

Fish on...

Todd

Any archers out there bring your bow. I'll be spending Sunday afternoon at the Derrington walk thru course.

Gonna be some color in river...might want to bring some silver.

A splendid turnout and one of the best things I've ever been a part of.
Thanks to everyone that showed up and/or emailed their support.

Next Saturday is the "second salvo", we make a formal presentation to the WDFW Commissioners. This will be during the public comment period on Saturday morning and take up only about 45 minutes of your time. The room holds about thirty chairs. It would be nice if it were standing room only!:)



And we made the local paper:
http://www.goskagit.com/all_access/catch...e28aaba3a0.html

Anybody care to share? How was it for us who couldn't make it? Got any pics? Anybody get take downs on hookless plugs or spoons? Inquiring minds want to know.

We've got some pics over here!

A big THANKS!!! to all who showed up and have written emails supporting this effort!

A huge thanks to Salmo G, Smalma and the rest of the organizers of this event as well!

The event was well attended...maybe 100 or so?? I was surprised (disappointed) by the lack of gearheads there though....I'd say the attendance was 95% fly fishers. Tim (fishnfool) was the only one tossing a 50/50 hookless spoon made by some obscure manufacturer. Later in the morning however Robbo and TJN showed up with some serious gear including "Big Red".

Great demonstration none the less. A lot of interesting conversations. Kudos to the organizers.

S'okay Beezer, I saw some gearheads trundling around incognito. But yeah, the majority were packing fly rods. No matter, it was a good turnout and helped raise awareness about the issue.

Redd, we managed to make the local paper, online and in print, which is read by thousands here in the valley.
http://www.goskagit.com/all_access/catch...e28aaba3a0.html

We also managed to make two radio shows simultaneously that morning. I don't know how many listeners they have, but it has to be more than a few.

Keep in mind, this was only the first salvo and probably the part of the coming struggle that will be remembered as the most fun. The real work begins next Saturday, 8:30 am at the commissioners meeting.

Join us there! Nothing would make a better impression on the nine commissioners than to have the room filled to standing room only while we make our formal request for basin specific allowable impacts.

April 13th 8:30 AM - Natural Resources Building
1111 Washington St SE, Olympia, WA - First Floor, Room 172

The 'Squeaky Wheel' gets the grease!

SD, I fished skated chum fry patterns and did raise 5 fish, one which struck 3 times. Pretty sure these were all dollies. It was fun but frustrating at the same time. I clipped my hooks at the bend cause I didn't want any question about being legal. It was great to see the turnout including 3 WDFW guys. Thanks to the guys that organized this, I hope it moves forward and I'm planning to make the meeting on Sat.

A last reminder of the meeting in Olympia tomorrow.

I'll be taking the names and signatures of nearly 500 supporters with me. It's not too late to get your name added. Send me your name and hometown to cr_skagit@yahoo.com

45 minutes of your time on a Saturday morning can help fill the place to standing room only.

em sent

We came, we sat down, and we talked.
I get the feeling that they understand the logic behind our message and would like to restore our opportunity. They also know that it's a complicated process that has to be done step by step through proper channels. It is after all a federal agency that we have to ultimately deal with - and the burden of that process falls directly on the WDFW

Once again I want to thank everyone that showed up in Rockport. Because of that event and the coverage it received they knew we were coming and wanted to hear our comments. Twice we were congratulated by individual commissioners on our 'style' and I was personally thanked by one before the meeting for our efforts.

More radio on the Outdoor Line. We got a mention by the WDFW director near the end of his segment and about a ten minute host discussion towards the end of their show. You can hear both of them here:
http://theoutdoorline.com/podcasts/

At some point yesterday's meeting can be listened to here:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2013/
I don't know how long it takes them to get it posted up, so maybe check it in a few days.

And last but for sure not the least a big thank you to The Outdoor Line Show and the personal time you guys have given to our cause! clap

You can cross the first step off the list!

SAWEET!!! Great feedback....,nice to meet ya Tim.

We're happy to help Wayne and appreciate all the work that you guys are doing on this. When it re-opens we'll have to do some flyfishing together on the mighty Skagit