Snoqualmie

Recreationally, is the Snoqualmie done?

http://www.theeastside.news/snovalleysta...f9bd655146.html


New specialty steelhead license plate to support wild steelhead conservation efforts. But wondering if "guiding hatchery operations" really means no hatchery operations...not looking good for Puget Sound steelhead sportfishing!

http://www.theeastside.news/snovalleysta...0608d7574d.html

wow....that would be a great loss.

My 1st steelhead, a summer run, was caught on a fly...fishing just below where the Tolt River runs into the Snoqualmie. The year was 1965 and I was fishing for sea run Cutthroat. That was last time I fished in steelhead water, with a fly rod.......

Time goes by so fast.....glad I had many good years before Bolt Decision and all the gill netting, population growth, etc. put us in the dire straits we are in today....

I just shake my head....granted I have NO biological background to offer any scientific opinion, but it appears like another lost opportunity for the sportsman.

I also caught my 1st winter run (drift fishing) on the Snoqualmie when I was 12 or 13 on my 4th cast, probably 1984. We used to fish right below the Falls. Early to mid 80's the fishing could be great at times. Especially glo-ball fishing in the summers...

I loved to float the sno and typically made it down a couple times a year. Fun river to take newbies on and get them into a fish.

The tualips had a Steelhead netting opener in all of the Area 8.1 sub areas this year, wonder if that had anything to do with the low return? we may never know.

With regards to the article, I can understand both points of view. IMO, the best course of action is to remove the hatchery fish and let the river be. Let nature fix itself, because it doesn't need Mans help by attempting to augment the population in any way. The fish will re-populate the river with a little time.

Suspect the "poor" returns to Tokul Creek were due to lack of smolt plants.

The bulk of Chambers Creek hatchery steelhead return as 2-salt which for this year means from smolt releases in 2015 when no hatchery steelhead smolts were released.

The remainder of the adult hatchery returns would have been as 3-salts with only an estimated 26,000 smolts released in 2014.

From reports across Puget Sound overall hatchery steelhead returns seem to be down from last year.

Curt

I sort of agree with this but only if the river is open for C&R. Otherwise the poaching is so off the charts the population will only go down the longer actual steelheaders are kept off the river.

I'd actually buy one of these if all the money went to enforcement of closed rivers. But how we do it now is one fish forward and 20 fish in the smoker!

That's the best thing BUT that should include NO NETTING of any kind by anyone.

This

Be interesting to see how the state moves forward on the Snoqualmie. They are wrapping up a genetic study that apparently shows little to no crossing between the wilds and the hatchery. Where do we go from there?

On Riley's point about the Tulalips- anyone in the everett area see nets working over the last few weeks? They have a season every year. It's their participation that counts (or hurts as the case may be).

I get the need for in system brood stock. Canada has done it forever. How much longer do we have to wait for such plans to be completed and implemented? It's been 2 years now and seems like no progress. Seems not to be a priority. Don't see any reason why wild collection can't start now on all PS rivers. Volunteers would be jumping to assist. Quinaults on the coast are planting 400,000 a year from brood stock and having huge success with returns. They are even selectively breeding only 15# and up, and you know what they get back? Brutes! Seems that model could followed for the future in Puget Sound. Seems like a no brainer to me. We can study it to death and that,s exactly what happens in the meantime. I don't have many years left to fish and hope it changes soon. It's all BS as far as I am concerned!

And Smalma can jump in here on this but back in 70s WDG decided to "breed up" the Skamania summers. The 1-salts were smaller (duh) than the 2-salts. So, they used the big fish in breeding. Crashed the program, as the additional year at sea reduced the survival to where the run was not sustaining itself. But they got back "Brute" summers.

Not sure what the situation with the Skamania summer fish have to do with this thread but for those that might be interested.

The selective breeding of summer-run fish occurred in the 1960s/early 1970s at the Skamania Hatchery in SW Washington. The resulting hatchery fish were pretty amazing. During the 1980s the average hatchery summer fish was larger than the average winter with most summers in that 8 to 12 pound range with a surprising number of 3-salt fish (some years a quarter or more of the run) which typically were in the mid-teens though occasionally one would see fish in the high teens/low twenties. The best year for large fish was the summer of 1983 where I personally saw 6 hatchery fish over twenty with one beast that measured 41.5 inches.

Once the production (egg takes) moved to Puget Sound hatcheries in the mid-1970s the selective breed ending though the run remained predominately 2 and 3-salts through the 1980s. The program hardly crashed with the average return to catch during the 1980s on the Snohomish typically in the 1 to 3% range. While the age structure changed in the 1990s the return catch consistently held in the 1 to 2% range until about a decade ago. The marine survival of the those hatchery performed better (smolt to adult returns rates compared to the 1980s) than hatchery and wild winters until recently.

Curt

I remember an article by Ayerst that said the selective breeding down at Skamania didn't work and my response was to the "breed all the big ones"

That river hasn't fished good for 15+ years. Better off fishing the Sky.

How has that nature fixing itself worked out on the nisqually, puyallup, cedar, and Sauk? Loosing out on hatcheries means loosing out on opportunities that we will never get back.

I wish that they would pick the brutes for each year class to spawn. The current requirement to spawn jacks is regressive and contrary to natural selection. The genes for jacks are always within the fish of every year class. No need to spawn them.

If the hatcheries had selected the brutes from each year class every year we would be seeing some excellent returns.

look at the Puyallup and Nisqually escapement, its quite encouraging right now.

Remember those selected summer runs down south. My best was a 19 pound buck. But just how long would it take wild fish to recover in the sno Q ? Still waiting for the cedar, Sauk, nisqually, etc to recover. And then to get approval to fish ? Don't see it.

Skyrise,

Recover to what? I can argue that PS rivers are at their contemporary carrying capacity for wild steelhead based on the habitat conditions that exist these days. Freshwater production of smolts varies slightly according to how wet or dry the years are during their juvenile residence time. Adult returns vary dramatically according to marine survival conditions that include all manner of natural predation. Harvest of wild steelhead has been so low over the last 20 years or more that it is not a factor affecting wild steelhead abundance. Therefore, what does recovery mean? If it means increasing to a level of abundance that existing habitat conditions cannot support, well then, prepare for disappointment.

Sg

Brood stock works, it was a huge success on the Satsop, The Nisqually is a prime example that a PS river left along with all it's habitat degradation. Is doomed without our help.....

2salt returns are down this year all across the State, the 2 salts where weak returning this Summer in the Columbia, just as they are on the coast and Nooch. My average is over 10lbs per this year, not sure if I have even caught on less then 10 lbs. and the sad part is with the Ocean we had the last two years. Next year is going to be worse, this years two salts that did not return strong, will be next years 3 salts. And we will be in the same boat for two's as this year. So if the La-Nina stays with us, 2020 will or should be our next good return year, with both represented.
Make it a great day,
Formally,
Met'lheadMatt

Really what would help is to not deplete the bait fish in the PS. The PS is our nursery, yet we give them little chance to survive... Salmon or Steel.
Stop netting the bait fish in the nursery, and fish will return healthy and stronger. The bait is nothing like 20-30 years ago

The failure to address or even admit to the simple fact that modern human conduct in just living is incompatible with salmonids is the problem. Period, no debate it is a fact. What is required to protect fish is then reduce harvest, stop further habitat destruction by preserving the best natural watersheds free of our influence, determine those that really pretty much done under and utilize them for hatchery production. Then the final shoe which is intercept fisheries which must be restrained for any hope to get salmon runs stabilized.

Strange as it sounds it will take all those actions to stabilize salmon in WA St. Years ago a friend who worked for the agency had the time to pour through historical data and came to the conclusion that the average Coho run in the upper Chehalis only was about 180k with the upper Chehalis being described as a Coho producing SOB. Habitat has been degraded to be sure but for the coast of WA our problem is not habitat ( it is a huge thing but has stabilized in the last 20 years ) but harvest. In fact PS misery is being driven by harvest depending which fish and stock as to degree.

I agree with almost all of this. I'm not sure it is as complicated as some make it. I find it interesting as someone who does habitat restoration how often we are seen as the enemy by folks who never lift a finger for the good and want to build and live adjacent to critical areas. I understand how they value their rights and land but why are the habitat helpers and protectors the bad guys? Why do Americans always hate on those that are just trying to help? I understand that maybe we think our [Bleeeeep!] don't stink (environmentalists have this problem nearly universally) but we still are trying to do right by the habitat and that isn't a bad thing. Few want to hear the truth. Ive heard biologists called "lesbians" or "Indian lovers" as if that has anything to do with their work. Americans feel things that aren't there and could use a logic course. Brain wires are crossed everywhere hence a guy like Trump being seen as a solution to our problems.

begin with the understanding that when species were actually listed under ESA that cumulative human impact on that date was excessive and shown to detrimental to the species survival. So, in the 90s, or earlier with other species, the impact was excessive.

What have we done since then? Added hope many humans to WA, BC, AK, OR, the world? Paved over how much land? Continued harvest of the resources; not just the listed species but the species they eat.

Bob Lackey, and others, have been pointing this out regarding salmon since the turn of the century and it keeps being ignored.

My commute to work takes me from Snoqualmie Falls along the river through the valley. I used to detour along Fish Hatchery Road to see how many rigs were at Big Eddy, Tokul and Plum's... now all that can be found are a few lone souls practicing their spey casts in Fall City. Sucks. Hopefully Tokul gets their egg take this year and we can go fishing again.