Tribal police boats?

Does anyone know what sort of authority tribal police boats have? For example, could they stop you en route to fishing and do a full safety check like the Coast Guard could do? Check your license if you are actually fishing? Fine/ticket for boating and/or fishing violations?

Were you in their nation?

Lol. I guess it depends on who you ask. I suspect they might define their boundaries differently than we would.

In all my years in the San Juans, I'd never seen them. Now, I've seen them twice in the last couple weeks. Both times, I was cruising home after fishing and was 5-10 miles from the mainland. Both times, they chose to get within 30 yards of me at 30 mph for no apparent reason. The first time, I thought they were on auto pilot or didn't see me because they aimed right at me and only turned behind me at the last minute.

I suspect there main purpose it to "guard" the crabbing grounds from poachers.

First, the Coast Guard has certain unique authority over and above that of general police officers to include tribal.

Here is a link to the RCW: http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.92&full=true.

There is a procedure set forth in that RCW whereby individual tribes may enter into a law enforcement interlocal agreement with local authorities (commonly the County). In short, the tribe(s) must provide sufficient proof of insurance and their officers must be certified.

Here is a link to the interlocal agreement between Snohomish County and the Tulalip tribe: http://www.narf.org/nill/documents/201110snohomish-tulalip.pdf.

I could find no record of an interlocal law enforcement agreement involving the Lummi tribe.

Your questions might well be the basis for a presentation by your local County law enforcement official. My questions during such a presentation would revolve around how does a non-Indian know what authority a tribal officer may have over them and how that may change depending on location. Can we demand a copy of an interlocal agreement? Call 911??

Another interesting question is if ticketed by a tribal officer (operating under an interlocal agreement) for an infraction while on a reservation and that ticketed individual wants a hearing does tribal court meet Constitutional requirements?(think Jury of Peers)

My guess is that they would have the right if you are on reservation and would have the right with an injurisdiction off reservation. They likely would not charge you with a criminal statute, but would use a civil provision (think traffic law) so they could maintain jurisdiction. Again, remember, this is a guess.

What ever happened to the case in Brinnon where the Tribal cops busted/asaulted the elk hunters? That was not on rez.

Just burn some Sage and you will be free to run with the white buffalo.

http://www.ptleader.com/news/county-won-...cab720bb00.html

As I recall it went away rather quietly; only publicized "damage" was that the senior tribal cop (of the duo on site) lost his job. Lots of denial from the senior LE back on the reservation.

That event is a perfect example of why the large insurance requirement tied to any interlocul agreement. Two adults and at least one small child held for hours at gunpoint well off any reservation. State trooper who showed up didn't take control and WDFW LE never did show.

Ultimately determined they were legal both as to WDFW regs as well as having land owner approval.

No authority whatsoever. They also can not arrest or take you to jail on "their" nation. They call the local Sheriff.

I am not an attorney nor am I deeply immersed in this issue but am interested in how you reconcile your position with the RCW and the example of such an agreement as allowed by the RCW (Tulalip and Snohomish Co)?

The Snohomish Co/Tulalip agreement reads, in part, that:

"Each Authorized Tribal Officer may exercise the powers of a general authority peace officer, as provided for by applicable law, within the exterior boundaries of the reservation and outside the boundaries where authorized by law.

7. Exercise of Powers. Authorized Tribal Officers shall comply with all
requirements under chapter 10.92 RCW, as adopted or amended hereafter, when exercising authority as a general authority Washington peace officer."

Larry makes a good point! Many tribes do not have such an agreement. I have never heard of a tribal court using their authority to prosecute a non tribal person, at least not successfully.

Tribal/county agreements are a whole new ball game though, we have to wait to see what comes of it. lots of room there for liability issues on both sides! I don't see whats in it for the county in these instances. Mostly a headache I would imagine.

I think the biggest advantage is that if there is a crime just off reservation the tribal police can often get there quickly. Think of how long it would take if a crime took place just outside the Neah Bay boundary. The tribal police could get to the location quickly and secure it, then hand it over to the sheriff. In return, if something big happens on reservation or someone tries to flee, the sheriff can assist. Even with the agreement, both sides simply hand over the case to the other side. I know in Pierce County the Sheriff detain most drunk drivers until the State Troopers show up and then take over. In the same way, they try to hand off other criminal cases to the Sheriff. I was involved in a case where we stopped a fall down type drunk driver. The sheriff responded, detained the guy, then waited another 10 minutes for the state patrol to show up and make the actual arrest.

When I was surfing the web on this topic I could not come up with a consolidated listing of WA tribes which have consummated such a deal.

I suspect it is a minority of tribes in part due to the insurance requirement. And some County officials may not want to get into it because the insurance coverage requirement is perceived as insufficient.

Anyway, none of what I understand about this type of arrangement allows non-Indians to be tried in tribal court. However, Senator Patti Murray included a provision in the Violence Against Women Act that allows, under certain circumstances, for a non-Indian married to a tribal member and who is accused of domestic violence to be tried in tribal court.

Why??? Because the FBI which has jurisdiction wasn't allocating manpower to the problem. Should be interesting the first time a tribe attempts to try such a case in tribal court......something in the Bill of Rights about being tried by a jury of your peers. But that is another issue.

Another aspect is that some land with the original reservation boundaries has been sold and is no longer tribal. That issue came up on the Quinault reservation when the tribe tried to tax such properties - and lost. Similar properties exist on the Tulalip reservation or are under long term lease to non-Indians.

The other scenario is where the BIA has spot zoned a piece of property (think the Cowlitz tribe's new casino lands) far from any existing reservation with its own LE.

They got a deal on the boats, they are a kick in the ass to drive and they don't need no stinking badges.

So if you were issued a ticket by tribal Police who do you pay?

The Dog Soldiers.

I am sure that any citation will include very clear payment instructions -
should one elect to make such payment.

Sorry didn't make it very clear, would the money go to the tribe or would it go to the state? if your not on the res how could the tribe site you and expect to collect the money, i dont believe they can try a nontribal member in there courts, why would our state allow tribal police to cite nontribal members and expect to collect,

The first part would seem easy to answer. If one receives a citation written by a tribal officer and that recipient decides to simply pay up then my guess is that the money goes to the tribe.

Beyond that simple scenario it gets really murky to me. To the best of my limited knowledge the state law which allows tribal cops to become general state law enforcement officers does not involve court systems.

I believe that IF the Tribal LE has received the authority to enforce against non-tribal folks that they will be enforcing non-tribal law. Say you are speeding and they catch you. Citation would be to the state system. Same when WDFW, who has now broad authority, busts you for DWI. Goes into the normal system.

As with any citation, avoid paying at your risk.

And that is a pretty reasonable assessment if the tribal cop is enforcing State law.

The first rub is how does one determine that said tribal cop also has general WA peace officer authority under an agreement with the County?

And, secondly, what is the legal process if one is ticketed by a tribal cop who is also a WA general peace officer for a tribal infraction and the recipient wants to fight the ticket in court? Tribal court??

Legal advice would be a good thing to get. Except for that recent law on domestic violence on rez I am pretty sure that Tribal regulations apply only to tribal members.

My non-attorney guess is that if a Tribal Officer has the authority through agreements to cite you for a violation of state law, the citation will go to state court.

If they don't have the authority, or may wish to make things "cleaner", they can call in a local PD/sheriff/WDFW and have them do the citing.

About now would be a good time for some lurking WDFW officer or other Peace Officer to weigh in with facts.

If they don't have jurisdiction I question their authority to hold you until local LE arrives. That was the crux of the Brinnon fiasco; the two tribal cops were well off their rez and took it upon themselves to take two hunters into custody at gunpoint along with a small child and keep the adults handcuffed for hours. Frankly, those tribal cops should have gone to jail on a multitude of charges but neither the County prosecutor nor the State to include WDFW (illegal to interrupt a legal hunt) had what it takes to protect its citizens.

After calling State Patrol, the trooper stated that all the tribal police have been comminisoned and hold the same authority as a regular officer, he stated if you were driving down I-5 speeding he could pull you over and cite you but would be addressed in the county you were cited in not tribal,

After calling State Patrol, the trooper stated that all the tribal police have been comminisoned and hold the same authority as a regular officer, he stated if you were driving down I-5 speeding he could pull you over and cite you but would be addressed in the county you were cited in not tribal,

Interesting info if what they gave you is accurate.

The Trooper also mentioned if you wanted questions answered to call the Nisqually tribe, in his opinion, he stated they have one of the best tribal non tribal relationships in the state of Washington, when it comes to fish & wildlife enforcement,

And this was in what alternate universe??

He didn't say it was good, he said it was the best in WA. With much that is done with natural resources in WA the bar is either close to the ground, one the ground, or even buried. So, "best" is relative.

Well, there is that perspective. Can't disagree. Note that the Nisqually tribe is one which refuses to negotiate and enforce crab harvest numbers within their U&A.

I'd demand a state trooper if I was pulled over off res by tribal cops. If their stance that they are a sovereign Nation when it comes to negotiations, then as far as I'm concerned their police have no jurisdiction off that "nation's" land. I would consider it a violation of my rights to have them hold or cite and I'd challenge it as such in court. I might lose but i wouldn't just accept their law enforcement rights off res.

Unless I was on tribal land and thus subject to their laws I'd stop just long enough to ascertain that they were tribal police at which point I'd tell them to KMA and break contact. I'm not subject to the laws of a sovereign nation in my country. F'ck them and the horse they rode in on.

https://leb.fbi.gov/2012/may/indian-country-and-the-tribal-law-and-order-act-of-2010

What you have to remember if stopped by tribal police is that IF they are acting with a Sheriff's Commission, they are acting as the County Sheriff, not as a tribal officer. So they would have jurisdiction within the county IF the respective sheriffs choose to give them that authority, and I doubt that many would. Sheriffs, and Chiefs of Police for that matter, want CONTROL over those that represent them. How do you discipline a tribal officer if not under your command/control? Years ago the Nisqually tribal police proposed the State Department of Fisheries commission their officers so that they could enforce state laws on their U&A against non Indians. Fisheries countered with something like "Great idea, and you can commission our Fisheries Officers with your authority so we can come onto the reservation and enforce our laws." The tribe declined to give up any of its soveriegnity (sp?). I don't think tribal police officers have any authority over non Indians unless it is granted by local law enforcement - and the tribal officer better have really good I.D. if he stops a non Indian. Just my opinion, but I'm somewhat informed on this issue.

It is necessary for the State to CLEARLY let folks know which tribes have authority over non-tribal members. If they have authority and you blow them off they that would be flight to avoid prosecution which might be a bigger thing than whatever they stopped you for.

As a US citizen we have oversight and control of our law enforcement, especially county sheriff. They are beholden and answer to us in theory. Some Mickey Mouse tribal pig doesn't. I won't have to worry about dealing with a tribal cop with a grudge against whitey in this state but if I did I wouldn't recognize their tribal authority and I'd make it a federal case if need be. I don't give a rats ass if the sheriff anoints them by decree because that ain't how it works in America and an unlawful order is still unlawful.

Besides most tribal cops are too busy stealing kicker motors and crab pots to worry about upholding the law. If there's reciprocity then our cops can go onto the Rez and enforce our RCW's. I'll bet that'd go over about as well as a fart in church.