and you thought it could not get worse

In no way do I have a view on if this is true or not as it is the thing that comes to mind is this could get ugly. It is followed by " what the hell "

Rape allegation against division manager reveals ‘highly sexualized’ culture at state agency
BY WALKER ORENSTEIN
worenstein@thenewstribune.comM
Editor’s note: This story was reported in collaboration with Austin Jenkins of public radio’s Northwest News Network.
An inappropriate sexual culture festered for more than a year within the upper ranks of the state Department of Fish and Wildlife until a rape allegation against a former division manager brought it to light.
A law firm hired by Fish and Wildlife to investigate claims of sexual harassment spawned after the alleged rape found that a group of workers in the agency’s upper echelon often held or tolerated sexually explicit conversations at work. Some engaged in other inappropriate behavior both on the clock and after hours.
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The firm, MFR Law Group, also reported that the behavior, including at least one case of workplace sexual harassment, largely went unreported and unaddressed by the agency’s top leaders.
The News Tribune, The Olympian and Northwest News Network obtained the report in May through a public records request. The report, issued in 2015, had not previously been made public.
The news outlets asked three experts on workplace culture to review the report.
Steve Hirschfeld, a San Francisco-based lawyer who investigates corporate harassment issues at Hirschfeld Kraemer, said the MFR Law Group investigation showed “a workplace that is highly sexualized with a lot of, presumably, unprofessional banter.”
More than a dozen people named in the report seemed aware of at least one instance of inappropriate behavior. Many were in management positions.
Information revealed by the MFR Law Group investigation forced reflection among top leaders at Fish and Wildlife, who say they were unaware of brewing problems. They took steps to respond to fallout of the rape charge and the agency’s problematic work environment.
But they also painted the issues as emanating from one small faction of an agency, which is composed of roughly 1,900 employees working in Olympia and six regional offices across the state.
“It looked to me like it was this small group of folks going beyond the norm,” said Joe Stohr, deputy director of Fish and Wildlife.
Stohr spoke for the department because Director Jim Unsworth joined Fish and Wildlife while police were investigating the rape allegations. The previous director announced he would retire a few months earlier.
Micah Alpern, a consultant at A.T. Kearney who has helped multiple Fortune 500 companies through culture changes, said the report also revealed other flaws in how the agency operates.
“It comes across as a culture of hesitancy to speak up,” he said.
Manager accused of rape
Scrutiny of the agency’s internal culture began after one of its division leaders, Greg Schirato, was accused of raping another agency employee.
Schirato has been charged with second-degree rape and first-degree burglary in the case. He’s pleaded not guilty and is awaiting trial in Thurston County Superior Court.
Schirato, known as an influential and well-liked figure within Fish and Wildlife, joined the agency in 1983 and worked his way up to become deputy assistant director for the Wildlife Division in 2010. He held that position until 2015 when he was fired in response to the MFR report and the rape allegations. Schirato is appealing to get his job back.
According to court records, the alleged rape occurred in December 2014.
Former Fish and Wildlife employee Greg Schirato, 55, is pictured in a screen grab from a prior television interview with KING TV.
KING 5 TV Courtesy
Schirato attended the agency’s Christmas party and then went out drinking in downtown Olympia with three co-workers, the records show.
One of the women who accompanied Schirato and the others said she went home afterward and fell asleep while “very intoxicated,” according to police.
The next morning, she woke up with clothes undone and found signs of a break-in, according to court records.
She called police and said she had intermittent memories of being sexually assaulted while she slept, records show.
Schirato, 55, was charged in April 2015 after detectives said they linked DNA and other evidence to him.
His attorney, Richard Woodrow, said he is confident Schirato will be proven innocent. He said Schirato did not enter the woman’s home that evening.
I DON’T THINK YOU’VE HEARD ME SAY WE’RE NOT CULPABLE. I WISH WE DID KNOW MORE.
Joe Stohr, Deputy Director of Fish and Wildlife
The woman who made the allegations declined to be interviewed for this story due to the pending criminal trial. She has since left Fish and Wildlife.
In January 2015 — while police were still investigating the rape accusation — Schirato and the woman made accusations of sexual harassment against each other at the agency.
The resulting 29-page report by the MFR Law Group found Schirato sexually harassed a woman who reported directly to him and who is not involved in the rape case. The report shows that Schirato told that woman she would be “fun at night” and made comments such as “I can’t believe how beautiful you are; you look so amazing.”
Schirato denied the harassment claim.
According to the report, four women also told MFR investigators that Schirato looked at them or watched them “in an inappropriate manner.”
In addition, some co-workers told MFR that Schirato tried to recruit them for sex.
The MFR report also states that Schirato hosted parties attended by colleagues. People went skinny dipping during at least one of those gatherings, the report shows.
The report states Schirato routinely talked about sex at work.
The firm says at least 11 people reported hearing Schirato make sexual comments or tell stories with sexual overtones. One woman, a manager at Fish and Wildlife, said Schirato brought up “getting naked at parties ... more than a dozen times” at work.
A man who used to be Schirato’s subordinate told MFR investigators that Schirato would talk about sex the same way someone “might go to the office and talk about NCAA basketball.”
Even Stohr, the agency’s deputy director, said Schirato once told him about being naked in a hot tub with women while on vacation in Las Vegas. Stohr said he redirected the conversation, which happened briefly in passing.

there are lots of allegations well supported throughout members of the agency. This is not new news to many who work in WDFW in Olympia and Montesano. The report in the Olympian newspaper really underplayed the extent of the impropriety of the actions among some of the highest leaders in this agency. Real x rated stuff. Certainly not all leadership involved, and NONE of enforcement people. We will see if Schirato names any of his cohorts in a plea arrangement. There is a lot to tell here.

Question: do you think high level male administrators should take female interns and prospective employees alone to a mountain cabin?

I wouldn't be so sure about no enforcement involvement....

Should be clearer. The article was about the Schirato incident. There was also a WSP investigation that has not seen the light of day once it went to the Director's Office.

"Question: do you think high level male administrators should take female interns and prospective employees alone to a mountain cabin?"

I think the women should be smart enough not to get involved in such situations.

So they should be smart enough to tell their boss to fuckoff? Sure that works.

They should tell them exactly that or stay at home in the bedroom.

Humpygate

Plant fish....................not swimmers.

Plant fish....................not swimmers.

Sounds like Fox News and their problems. It looks like too much hanky panky and not enough management. Something smells fishy!

Back on the front page of the Daily 0 with the report of firing 4 at the Wells hatchery. Boys continue to be boys at WDFW.

OK it is to strange not to C&P

Report of sexually explicit ‘locker room talk’ leads to firings at state fish hatchery
BY WALKER ORENSTEIN
worenstein@thenewstribune.com
AUGUST 16, 2017 7:00 AM
Editor’s note: This story was reported in collaboration with Austin Jenkins of public radio’s Northwest News Network.
The four highest-ranking employees of a state fish hatchery were fired last week after an investigation into sexual harassment claims found rampant sexual conversations and hazing that led at least one woman to leave the office.
A private investigator hired by the Department of Fish and Wildlife to scrutinize behavior at the 17-person Wells Hatchery complex near Pateros found three male fish specialists routinely talked about sex and asked explicit sexual questions of coworkers.
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The investigator also reported the trio used insulting or profane nicknames for coworkers, such as “Miss Piggy,” and talked about the bodies of women who were visitors or state employees.
The hatchery’s manager, Jayson Wahls, was the fourth employee fired. Investigators said he did not stop “locker room talk” by subordinates and even brought Maxim magazines for the men’s bathroom at the hatchery.
The consulting firm Daphne R. Schneider and Associates said in its late-June report to Fish and Wildlife that Wahls “essentially condoned and promoted this sexualized atmosphere and sent a message to employees that it was acceptable.”
Fish and Wildlife is not pursuing criminal charges against the four because their misconduct did not appear to rise to that level, agency spokesman Bruce Botka said. Also, the consulting firm did not conclude anyone had been sexually harassed.
Fish and Wildlife Director Jim Unsworth said Monday the report showed graphic language that left him “startled and taken aback.” He said the behavior was unacceptable and the proper response was to fire the four managers.
“Looking at the evidence and how long it occurred and how it’s impacted some folks, it just seemed that was the appropriate level to take care of it,” Unsworth said.
The former employees could not be reached for comment. They can still appeal their firing. A lawyer for a union representing Fish and Wildlife employees did not return a request for comment.

Jessica Randklev The News Tribune
The consultant’s report was obtained Friday through a public records request by The News Tribune, The Olympian and Northwest News Network.
The firings come after the news outlets reported last week on a 2015 workplace investigation that found a sexual office culture among some in the Fish and Wildlife department’s upper ranks.
That investigation, which had not previously been made public, was spawned after Greg Schirato, a deputy assistant director for the Wildlife Division, was accused in 2015 of raping a coworker.
Schirato denies the allegations and has pleaded not guilty to charges of second-degree rape and first degree burglary in a pending criminal case.
He was fired, but no other disciplinary action was taken after the workplace inquiry.
Allegations in the report
Most of the 30-page report on the Wells Hatchery centers on the behavior of three top-ranking fish hatchery specialists.
One of the three is Scott Moore, who is a supervisor who reports to Wahls. The News Tribune and The Olympian are naming him and Wahls in this story because they had supervisory roles and responsibilities. The newspapers are not naming the other two employees fired because they were not supervisors.
A redacted version of the report appears to show at least seven people said Moore and the other two specialists “frequently” used sexual language, told sexual jokes, asked sexual questions and made sexual references. This usually happened in the hatchery’s break room.
The three deny much of the conversation or crude behavior took place, but all acknowledged some of it happened.
This alleged behavior went so far that it drove one woman from the hatchery, the report says.
She told the investigator “the major reason” she left for a seasonal position at the nearby Methow Hatchery was because of “constant, daily sexual banter” and negative comments from Moore and one of the specialists about her work and the work of other employees.
She said the three men frequently asked her sexual questions or made crude comments, the report says. At least one suggested she prostitute herself when she works on fishing boats in Alaska because she could “make a lot of money,” according to the report.
The woman told the investigator she didn’t complain about the behavior to Wahls because “she did not believe it would do any good, and was concerned it could be held against her.”
The investigator’s report was sparked in February when two employees of the nearby Omak Hatchery told a Fish and Wildlife police officer about concerns they had regarding behavior at Wells.
The report says several people who have recently left the Wells Hatchery said the sexual atmosphere was “part, or a significant part of their reason for leaving.”
Wahls told the investigator he did not hear much of the sexual banter or name calling at the hatchery and said what he did hear was all in “good fun.” He said he did not stop it because nobody had complained about it, the report says.
Moore acknowledged sexual talk in the break room happened, the report says. But he downplayed the significance of the behavior, telling the investigator it was “just a group of guys” engaging in “locker room talk” and that it “has never gotten out of hand.”
The report says 10 employees “regularly” heard sexual comments and jokes in the break room while Moore was there.
One of the specialists denied some instances of sexual conversations to the investigator. He acknowledged others or had slightly different recollections of them.
Another told the investigator “sex comes up every once in a while” and said it “could be” that comments had been made about the bodies of women who were visiting the hatchery. He denied some of the sexual comments and questions others accused him of saying in the workplace.
Coworkers reported to the investigator all three men used crude, sexual nicknames for others, such as “vag.”
While the men mostly denied using the nicknames, Moore and one of the specialists admitted to calling one employee “tripod” as a reference to male genitalia, the report says.
Possible agency changes
Unsworth, the Fish and Wildlife director, said Monday that agency managers are expected to keep their workplaces “free of harassment” and make sure “people feel confident to come forward” with complaints about misbehavior.
When they don’t, they risk being fired, he said.
He also painted the agency as one that may need to improve its workplace culture and management training.
Unsworth said the reports of a sexual environment at Wells Hatchery made him question whether the methods the agency was using are effective.
“In this case, I think you could say probably not with these individuals,” he said.
Unsworth said he is considering an agency-wide look to see whether fear of reporting misbehavior is common. The 2015 report of a sexual culture among some at headquarters states it went on for more than a year because nobody reported issues to top management or human resources.
Barbara Baker, a commissioner on the nine-member Fish and Wildlife Commission that sets policy at the agency, said the department’s sexual harassment policy is strong but managers need to implement it better to encourage reporting misconduct.
She recommended an “assertive” training program for staff members that “goes far beyond what we currently do as an agency.” She said managers need to reinforce alternative ways for people to report problems.
“Staff need to understand that there are other avenues to report this kind of conduct and nothing can happen until it is reported,” she said. “Then after that, they need to trust that, to the extent possible, their privacy will be respected and also that management will investigate or take other actions to ensure the problem is remediated.”
Unsworth said Fish and Wildlife is considering sending higher-level managers more often to the agency’s remote outposts to check in. The agency owns or operates 83 fish hatcheries, as well as other rural offices.
Unsworth said some agency issues might stem from being a male-dominated environment. The Wells Hatchery complex, which has oversight of some small nearby agency pit-stops, currently has 10 men and two women. The roughly 1,900-employee agency is about 31 percent women, according to Botka, the agency spokesman.
While Unsworth said fishing and hunting fields have made strides in hiring women since his early days working for Idaho, his agency has a ways to go.
He said Fish and Wildlife administrators started talking Monday about hiring people to better “seek out and promote people of different genders and different ethnicities.”
“We’re not experts on that,” Unsworth said.
State Rep. Brian Blake, D-Aberdeen, said Fish and Wildlife should look to get help for an agency culture that he said needs “serious work” in places.
“I think that the commission who governs this agency needs to step up, and through the director, communicate very strongly that there needs to be somebody in charge that does have this expertise and the ability to change cultures,” said Blake, chairman of the House Agriculture and Natural Resources Committee.
The private investigator’s report also notes other issues at the agency.
It says Wahls likely misused government funds in several ways, such as borrowing hatchery equipment for personal use. The report hatchery employees raised safety issues, but they were outside the scope of the investigator’s work.
Preliminary information from a Fish and Wildlife officer said there were allegations that Wells Hatchery employees were coached to provide false numbers for fish stocking records

And they still haven't released the WSP investigation...........

Rape? Did she buy a fishing license? If so, then I'd say yes, she was raped.

Bit on the news today that Douglas PUD has pulled their contract with WDFW for Wells and Methow. In the past I have heard rumblings from others who fund mitigation hatcheries that they are unhappy with how some things are done. Wonder if more will follow suit.

It's possible. I know that Tacoma Power has the option in its FERC license to contract with another party or operate the Cowlitz hatcheries itself. They have continued to contract with WDFW since the new license was issued in 2002 however.

The Douglas action should send a clear message to WDFW that in addition to producing mitigation fish, the hatcheries cannot reflect negatively on the PUDs image.

I know Tacoma has been at least unhappy in the past, as has Seattle. I wonder that if Douglas is successful then some sort of consortium, like NWIFC, might be set up for the PUD facilities. Some sort over oversight, maybe a single location for Fish Health, an so on while the individual PUD operates things.

Why wouldn't they all choose someone else? I would think TP would look at WDFW's complete incompetence on the Cowlitz and make a change.

Who would that "someone else" be? Maybe the Cowlitz Tribe if they get more organized but I think Douglas' issue was that WDFW essentially embassassed them as it is their facility and money. Douglas wants to have more control of what goes on. Image is probably a big part of it.

Coming on the heels of the Schirato Incident it really looks bad.

Draining the swamp??

The swamp definitely needs to be drained. There are rumors that WDFW has played fast and loose with the hatchery budget, and also fast and loose with their fish numbers released. Time for the Commission to step up. Obviously some of upper management is the problem. There was s similar situation at the George Adams hatchery near Shelton a few years ago. Hidden cameras in the women's restroom, sexist comments, etc. WDFW management should have gotten the hint and made sure other hatcheries were in line. Looks like they didn't. Question: How much more bad stuff coming? Will it be swept under the rug, or dealt with?

I find it amazing that Leadership had no clue about what was going on. The are a lot of skeletons still buried. Plus, of course, the money and fish counting issues.

I think the action Douglas PUD is taking is good for WDFW in the long run. The Department depends heavily on mitigation revenue to provide and maintain FTE jobs in the agency, but has often taken the contracts for granted. The multi-million dollar shake up should cause WDFW to improve its fiscal discipline in fulfilling contract obligations. That would have the benefit of improved relations between the Department and the utilities it contracts with, and the utilities would probably feel better about contracting with the Department, whether they are forced to by license requirements or not.

And how is the P.S. crab endorsement money being spent? Unlike the other two endorsements that one has no advisory group oversight and I seem to remember the original SAO audit found accounting discrepancies which were allowed to be corrected but were not further described nor quantified in the final report. Transparency??

I don't know who someone else would be? I'm sure there are companies that have aqua-culture down to an efficient science. Is there some law that says TP or other utilities couldn't contract with a private entity?

That question of having a private company do it has been discussed many times but there is a significant difference between how WDFW, the Tribes, and Feds raise fish and a private aquaculture operation.

WDFW has to produce fish that will survive for as many years as 5 or 6 after release and then return to spawn. In commercial aquaculture they need to produce fish that convert food to flesh efficiently. They don't really have to swim well, avoid predators, or even look good. Look at the mouths on the AS, a hatchery fish released in the wild would not survive.

Different concepts in accomplishing very different jobs.

Oh hell if the facility goes on a low cost contact or they just hire a outside firm to run it ( and there are many choices ) there is no doubt they can get a huge cost reduction. Hell I have little doubt that they can beat the states cost with a reduction of 30% or more. Key here just run one in place. Ever seen a state hatcheries payroll? Having dealt with WDF&W cost structure it is not even a contest. Which is why WDF&W goes out of its way to insure things like this do not happen.

If all the PUDs and similar organizations abandoned WDFW and contractor ted with themselves or others it would create some interesting funding and staffing issues for the rest of the State hatchery system.

and then the unthinkable ..... contract it to a tribe. Damn that would be fun on so many levels I cannot count that high!

Rumor I heard, from an occasionally reliable source, is that the Yakamas will take over Wells and Methow.

Does the state have a "prevailing wage" requirement in its service contracts? If so, payroll savings will be in how many employees they hire and their efficiency.

And if it is a for profit operation there is that nasty profit percentage.

Yes WDF&W has a prevailing wage requirement on everything it does and a payroll load on bennies and admin that would make Warren Buffet shudder!

Wages and operation costs could be covered or at least supplemented by rearing chum and selling the surplus roe from fish over escapement in most hatcheries. Only problem would be ensuring the money stayed in the hatcheries.

No problem; I am sure that tribal interests would gladly open their financial records.

Don't know about hatchery folks, but at least some of the tribes pay their Biological Staff WAAAAAAAAAAAY more than WDFW pays theirs.

Wasn't talking about tribal hatcheries, the casinos more than cover their costs lol

I heard they are turning the Trout and Salmon hatcheries into topless water parks.

Yup CM they do as the gas tax has made them pretty flush with $$$ so control of the production would be the goal. What I was hitting on was contracting out to a private firm which is much has much lower than either tribal or state operations.

I would think that money savings would mostly come from reducing overhead, support staff, and many of the other ratholes that drain a budget. Plus, the PUD-facilities would not be used to support/backfill state-funded operations.

But, it is not just saving money. It would be about creating better publicity. One has to admit that in the last few years WDFW has shot off most, if not all, of its toes and is working up to the knees and higher in self-inflicted "issues". For a wide variety of reasons they seem to be unable to present a transparent, fully functional operation.

There would be cost saving just in government employee savings. The amount government employees accomplish compared to profit driven employees is, well, different. A private employee who is expected to produce a product and faces the likelihood of getting canned gets a lot more done and cares a lot more about success. You'd have less employees, which is the expensive part of any business, and those employees would give better results (or they'd get canned and someone who could do the job would replace them).

Look at the Cowlitz debacle. How do you think private employees and managers would have done if they watched the fish get eaten for years and then acted dumbfounded that otters and dozens of birds ate them? And what was WDFW's answer? It sure appeared to me that they paid someone to drive circles around the ponds (I watched it a number of times from the BC launch). Is that efficient? Not only is it expensive, but the birds simply flew up into the trees and waited 10 minutes for the guy with the truck to get done with his lap. Then, back to eating fish. The incompetence is mind blowing.

And, I don't buy for a minute that private aquaculture companies couldn't produce fish for release as opposed to sale. The blueprint is there. The fact that they have a different goal now means nothing.

Tacoma's Cushman hatchery is already run by PSFMC. The Corps threatened ODFW with contracting out at some SW hatcheries a little while back.
Though,the model for the private guys is that one or 2 guys at the top gets 100k/year and the workers get 13/hr.
..Some places are really bad..make your jaw drop...some people have complained..but they usually get blacklisted and runoff ...it turns into a he said she said thing."stories differ so we can't tell what happened"....it's a small industry where do you go ? that's why people just leave, it's easier than fighting... Bullying seems to be ok with HR too...

The only reason people get in trouble is if they admit anything...

Stuff was going on a GA for years and the solution was to move people around....only the camera and someone's journal got things going.

Of course the private sector can do it, too. What they don't know now, they will learn. Nobody thinks government employees are somehow more capable of aquaculture (or anything). That's never been what this is about.

I think people that think this is evidence that we need to get the government out of operating hatcheries would do well to consider what's happened to public access to fish and wildlife since the State saw fit to lease all our land to private logging companies. It's not hard at all to imagine a time when our WDFW license won't entitle us to any hatchery fish, and with the wild fish circling the bowl, just what do you think that leaves us?

Private companies exist for the sole purpose of creating profits. Creating hatchery fish for sport fisheries doesn't create profits. So just what do you suppose any self-respecting company would do when given the choice to sell their fish for commercial harvest or just create them so sport fishers can have an opportunity to catch them?

The government work that is most valuable to citizens is the work that pencils out on a corporate balance sheet most poorly. Seek to make that work "more efficient" at your peril.

The mitigation requirements would be the same, right? I don't see how it makes a difference to our fishing rights (or lack thereof) if WDFW gets paid to raise the fish or if someone else gets paid to raise the fish. Either way, they are just acting as a contractor to produce fish that are required to be produced.

The problem with WDFW is there isn't much honest, institutional desire to get it right. Failure is fine as long as the money was spent, everyone followed the process that's in place, and everyone collects their paycheck.

Mitigation fish are just that and who raises them is not really a issue to the mitigation only the ones paying the bills and the ones raising the fish. I find it amazing that someone would think that WDF&W could do anything cheaper than the private sector. If the facility is intact and the NPDES permit ( discharge permit ) is in the owners name then it is just moving bodies. Frankly the private aquaculture folks have way way higher standards as if they screw up they loose money. If you have not noticed that is not the case for the state employees.

To the bit back some on wages. The state facilities are manned per union contract. Private facilities have skilled positions and unskilled. Skilled positions pay reasonably well but the non skilled positions much lower. This is the case with the state as they contract out mass marking manning so those folks get around minimum wage. The average hatchery for WDF&W pays up for all positions if they are full time. Do the job requirements require that wage structure. Nope about 50% of a state hatcheries positions pay way more than skills required for many things.

Think of it this way. To build a 777 requires huge investment in people and skills cost so the planes do too. Can Boeing build a business jet as Gulfstream does? Yup but lord at what price? That overhead load cannot compete in thin margin highly competitive aircraft. WDF&W's structure by itself dictates that they are very pricey.

After that this. The state hatchery folks were and are some of the greatest folks to work, ( mostly ) It is not them it as they do their jobs but rather that cumbersome top heavy system that is process driven rather than results orientated. That simple.

Even if a private company were to take over operations, it'll still be funded by the state & feds. If you've seen how public funded construction by private companies is constantly going over budget then you'd know what would happen to our hatcheries. Anytime there's tax dollars funding whether by gov employees or a private firm being contracted there's always bloat and waste

On construction cost the state is way way past private as they do the designing. Any changes required are not the contractors but rather within the design. I have seen projects blown by contractors but it is usually a design flaw or management failure. State projects run with prevailing wage that applies to the contractor also. Any construction project designed and built privately is going to be way under state cost as long as it is free of the state government. Hell the admin on a state funded anything can run between 25% and 50% and gets worse if federal funds are involved.

The old joke was if the state did a pamphlet on how to use ass wipe it would be 50 pages long, color photos, and cost 10 million to design before publishing. It is what it is.

i wonder if a private entity be allowed to work employees 10 days in row without overtime like wdfw does now? ...

LOL

Little lipstick on the pig would help the optics!!!!

this is why i feel sorry for anyone entering fisheries or aquaculture nowadays...especially since most of these people have degrees of some sort and have student debt...the people you work for hate you,think you're a bunch of lazy ,undeserving scum...you wonder why you didn't get the raise the bios and techs got(10 percent raise )and you didn't? as a tech and bio i'd get OT after 40 hours...even in private aquaculture i'd get OT after 40 hours...get out while you can....if you have a CDL you can make more driving for safeway....i know someone that quit wdfw and drove for safeway and retired 10 years earlier than if he'd stayed in hatcheries...

it's a dying career unless you can be the one guy at the top.....

I need an experienced dump truck driver in the Olympia area.
Pays well, health insurance, and 401k.

Nearly impossible to find a decent dump truck, lowboy, side dump driver in Central Washington now...private scale $25/hr (and Davis Bacon work depending) with medical and 401k also. Our guys are getting max hours also...

I have a masters of science and help manage restoration projects. My typical day this time of year is driving a dump truck or excavator, spraying herbicide from a huge truck tank and just doing grunt work..In the winter I do a lot of site visits, planting, and set up the new projects for the summer construction season. We have lots of hours, good benefits, and steady work. It feels like we are working for a noble cause and we are typically contracted and need to do good work to get work.

Anyway, we have a hard time finding good workers because everyone qualified coming out of college thinks they should not be doing the types of tasks we do. Seems like every young gun just wants to work with fish and wildlife and design and plan but not sweat and get dirty. Its pretty sad that so many in the environmental movement have this short list of what they find acceptable tasks. I wonder how bad gov is this way.

Ive always jumped at the opportunity to get paid to learn any skill since I feel it makes me more valuable, but sometimes when I am being interviewed for my dream job I feel it is a knock that I do what I do because I must be dumb to not get paid to sit at a desk and email all day.

There are bigger problems than budget in the environmental type job area. The key employees that get the work done and dirt under the nails are greatly undervalued and the people who email all day are over valued and kid themselves that they are irreplacable or the most important. The more I see it the more I want to start my own contracting company. I think I could easily lap many of the gov government subsidized companys I see.

Absolutely true!!

The constant pounding on public sector employees as a group by politicians as well as individuals ultimately ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

When I started out in the business you started in the field. That did include some construction of needed equipment, trap installation, and all sorts of data gathering.

Not to pick on WDFW (but it so much fun and so easy), look at the org chart. Where did folks come from?

Used to be that you started at the bottom and worked your way up. And the stairway could lead to the Director/Deputy Director level. Now, if you start as a Tech or Bio 1 there is often a ceiling at the divide between science and policy. Policy folks come in as low-level policy folks and move up.

But, before we blame WDFW, how many colleges have field courses where you actually handle the animals? The UW hatchery is now closed, at least the salmon part of it. Too much learning is looking at a computer screen.

Unfortunately the only fish exist in the office so there is little work to be done in the field.

time goes faster when you're outside......that's what i always liked...screw the office..

lots of new folks have gone to hood river or bellingham tech etc...where they do get to handle fishes a little...or worked in alaska or oregon and lots have volunteered/temped before getting on too......the UW people seem to end up more on the fisheries side of things ...

there's also turf wars between the fisheries side and hatchery side....not much crossover allowed...if you were in hatcheries it's hard to get a bio/tech gig...and vice versa...


another tough aspect is that hatchery folks in general seem to be a bit more conservative.....lots of hunters/gun rights types and not a lot of fans of wild fish...and some dislike of big government and 'socialism'(even though they're benefiting from 'socialism' by working for the gov't) so they vote conservatively. unfortunately, the people they vote for are the same ones that don't want to give them a raise....or get rid of them altogether...

Bottom line is you cant save fish or grow fish at a desk, and thats where budgets are going.

If you want to work outdoors and be close to the fish and other critters, you need to get into enforcement. It's dangerous, but never routine.

no doubt about that... the only boats on north puget sound are ferries, game wardens and poachers...

Tug was a good one.

Ain't many left.

What Tug said. Did that for 30 years. Lots of variety in the work.