I have a DREAM....

Well mebbe not me personally... but at least Blake does.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=2417&Year=2017#documentSection

Wonder who's gonna produce these 10 million kings? Are the eggs just gonna rain down from Heaven by the good graces of the Fairy Godmother? Mebbe he's counting on the Easter Bunny?

HB 2417 - DIGEST

Creates the legislative task force on the recovery of southern resident orcas to gather evidence and make recommendations regarding the recovery of the orcas.

Makes an appropriation from the general fund to the department of fish and wildlife to increase hatchery production of Chinook salmon and other salmon by ten million fish per year.

I have a dream too. That most of these would be used to establish a viable run of Hatchery spring Chinook, from the Chehalis stock, into the Skookumchuck. Not sure if would work, but the rest could go to doing the same thing with the white river stock in the Green (king county). I would love the chance to fish for some springers in a smaller river. The Green of the Toutle never got that many but was fun while it lasted. Oregon has a few small stream runs left and they are a blast to fish.
It would be interesting to see if there is a study that indicates the time of year and areas where the orcas are running into the most trouble finding fish. I personally question shoving most of these fish into the Columbia system is the best way to help the Orca's.

Good questions! My understanding is that the Frazer River Chinook have been a primary source and secondarily Puget Sound Chinook. Southern WA coast/CR????

But at least they are proposing GF money although a State study would seem redundant to Federal actions/responsibilities. How about the Feds look at how northern fisheries are impacting P.S. returns relative to both Orcas and WA's ESA listed salmonids and effect some positive recovery actions.

http://q13fox.com/2018/01/12/feed-killer-whales-bill-hopes-to-help-struggling-orca-population/

Release the smolts and the seals still eat them, BC and AK will still catch them. If he is truly serious about this helping whales and not just a backdoor way to increase fisheries than include a section that no WA-based fishery can harvest ANY of these fish until, as adults, they have passed where the whales can access them.

I believe Chinook output from WA hatcheries is off roughly 60% since about 1985 so this proposed legislation is a start if the goal is to have more returning fish all factors considered.

IMHO the quickest boost to the Orcas would be to limit northern interception. Rather not wait for three to five years for the hatchery production to ramp up.

Here's a 5 yr snapshot of what was going on a decade ago...



And here's a broader 12 yr span.... same smell.

I really like this idea!

70-80% Salish Sea Chinook are traded to Canada for Alaskan take of Canadian stocks?

For sure, the US/Canada Treaty needs to be reformed!

WDFW mind set....NO hatchery springers will be raised to go into the Chehalis system.

Many years ago, about 35, some members of Grays Harbor Chapter of North West Steelheaders, had the idea of using a pond up by the Skookumchuck Dam to raise "spring salmon". I remember Tom Pentt, 2 members of the Chehalis Tribe and myself drove to the "holding ponds" below the dam. I don't remember exactly what happen but the ponds ended being used to raise Coho for the Puget Sound area, end of any chance for Springers in the Chehalis drainage.

Chehalis Tribe had a program to raise Springers but it never got off the ground......

I'd love to have a chance for a Chehalis springer, again, but wild run has trouble making escapement.

Oh, Qin and Chehalis tribes does/can net on them.....Chehalis Tribe does not report any catch figures to Region 6.......grrrrrrrr

If, in fact, it is the goal of NOAA to stop the Killer Whale decline then closing the northern interceptions is the best and fastest was yo do it. It will provide fish in Year-1. The hatchery proposal, even if works, will take 3 years from first egg-take to show a benefit, if the interceptions in ALL fisheries of the new production are held to 0. Which is faster than the benefit from any habitat work.

Which leads me to conclude that the Killer Whales can just go die.

They're trying!

On paper, I'd be happy with 10MM kings...if it weren't for Northern interception. Why should we waste even more of our tax dollars further propping up BC and AK fisheries?

MY DREAM. Restart up the South PS Blackmouth delayed release program out of Capital Lake! 10 million a year out of there would have enough fish to feed the the Orcas, Recs, Tribes and any commercial entity! Clean it up to make it work. Make the dead zone a live zone again! F the wild fish competition argument and ESA BS. If you do it from the end of the sound some will stay some will leave North, but then at least all PS participants will get a crack at them. I will admit I am selfish. The way it exists now I have to go north to Everett and the San Juans for any viable winter success. F that! Why is it so good there? Because they put the numbers up there! I want what it used to be back in the 80's here South of the Narrows. All it ever takes is planting the numbers. Lets make South PS the Salmon Capital of the World envisioned by Bill Wilkerson, Norm Dicks, and all the dudes that had a vision for that back when. Flame on!

While we're dreaming, hell yeah I'd get on board with that RUNnGun!

But upon awakening, it looks a lot like the deck is stacked against those whales that don't have enough sense to switch away from salmon over to harbor seals. . .and us humans who like salmon too are pretty screwed.

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There are already populations of Killer Whales that eat pinnipeds just fine. They are our transient stocks. They are at least behaviorally different, have different language, and are quite possible biologically different species. As has been shown in other KW populations, especially in the Antarctic.

I wonder why the big hoopla la between Chinook and Killer Whales? Sure, it is what it is, a food source. If all the Chinook were gone you think they would stop searching for food? They're not so stupid that they would starve because no kings to eat. They move to the next best thing. Seals, Coho, Pinks etc. A few years ago KW were in Dyes Inlet feasting on a big return of Chum. Also some rouge KW went into Hood Canal and wreaked havoc on an excessive population of Seals there. They are opportunists like most other predators in nature. I think they deserve a little more credit than they get.

I thought that there's two kinds of Orcas. Salmon eaters and seal eaters. Sound Orcas are salmon eaters. The ones that you see eating seals are transient pods from Cali that sometimes move into our area. I wish they would visit more often. At least that's my understanding - could be wrong....

No that's correct (the current level of understanding on the two populations of orcas we see in the Salish sea). I think once the resident population gets stressed enough, it'll broaden its appetite to preserve some herd genetics. It's just tough to watch the short term consequences (lots of dead starved whales) of decreased carrying capacity due to not enough fish.

What's the path forward to some discussion on limiting the northern intercept fisheries impacts? Just starting the discussion would be helpful.

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Andy Appleby made an excellent point about the wisdom of simply making more hatchery fish to feed the orcas. How effective would it really be?

As it stands now, we see surpluses of hatchery kings at many facilities. Hatchery fish are swamping hatchery racks and the spawning gravel with unwanted pHOS.... kings that manage to skid by uncaught by our fleets and uneaten by the endangered orcas.

Will making more hatchery clones actually do anything to help the orcas plight? Or will it simply create greater problems for fish managers to deal with even bigger surpluses of unwanted hatchery fish? In many cases, we can neither catch... nor the orcas eat... enough of 'em at current levels of production as it is. How does making more really help?

Brian Blake wants to save the orcas... Uh-huh.

Pretty sure the plan is for every one of those chinook that doesn't get eaten by orcas to be eaten by humans, after being purchased in commercial markets, supplied by the Willapa Bay Gillnetters' Association (and company).

While not supporting Blake's idea too much, just how many Killer Whales feed inside Willapa? If the answer is none, then that is where fisheries on Chinook should be. AFTER they pass by the whales. Not before.

Which means that Chinook that come through the Straits (Juan de Fuca and Johnstone) and through the San Juans are probably where the numbers should be bumped.

OK, I'll be the one to bring this question to the table...but not to hijack the thread, more just for consideration:

Is it possible that by egging and raising fish that HAVE made it back to the hatchery, that we have somehow genetically engineered fish that are not prone to "bite"?

See the following for another option to increase the biomass of PS Chinook for the orcas and other uses.

https://tidalexchange.com/2018/02/09/fisheries-management-for-dummies-1-bigger-fish/

Curt

Selecting for large hatchery broodstock seems like a good idea. I doubt it would have the desired effect, however, because regardless of genetics, chinook take several years to mature, which requires them to survive multiple fishing seasons. I'd argue their ability to survive 4 and 5 years of relentless fisheries is a bigger factor in shrinking average size relative to genetics.

Still, I like the approach of proposing simple solutions that won't require controversial policy changes. The cumulative effect of trying all the quick and easy solutions should amount to at least something at the end of the day. I wish we could do more, but for now, I think this is the best approach.