Rough surf kills 2 women, clam digging

Two women died Friday after rough surf swept them off the beach as they dug for clams.

A 70 year old was reported missing, in the Long beach area and a 61 was missing in the Tokeland area. Both bodies were found Saturday.

Please be vigilant.....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/clammers-disappear-die-separate-eerily-similar-drownings/story?id=52855434


Both died with limits heading back to the car. Totally tragic and avoidable!
When do we start a common sense approach to our shellfish “seasons”?
There is no need for these planned late at night digs, or derby style shrimp and crab openings.
Razor Clams should be open November-April. Only closures for health advisories, and lack of abundance’s on certain beaches.

Shrimp and Crab should be close to year round. You get X amount of days to crab, you register online before you go out. It’s that simple.

This is a ridiculous post. Most minus tides occur after dark throughout most of the winter. Both of these deaths could have been avoided by a little common sense. DO NOT become separated from your "buddy". Do not clam alone. Do not turn your back on waves. What this has to do with shrimping and crabbing is beyond me. For one a totally different set of safety procedures is called for when boating. If you are complaining about shrimp and crab, why not start a different thread rather then just throwing crap into whatever thread you read? And I don't like the idea of limiting crab harvest to a certain limit of days. What if it's a bad day? Still gets counted against you? And I should register with the state prior to going out? That will be a cold day in hell!
Melanie was knocked down by an incoming wave years ago, pushed her right up the beach. As we do not get separated I was there for her. We laughed, but she uses more caution about waves these days. Be safe out there, we are. Bob R

There are plenty of daytime tides. These Women lost there lives because they got turned around in the surf with lights in every direction.
In a small group this would not happen. I don’t know why you would not want more opportunities to Clam?

For Crab and shrimp obviously I am talking about Puget Sound where we have limited seasons and punch cards for crab.
You probably don’t know about this since you are busy killing wild fish and starting flame wars on posting forums.

What a joke! Like we need more dates for clamming? You'ed have to be a pretty poor digger to need more dates. As far as "killing wild fish" just what are you basing this on? I don't fish for steelhead, and if you think that pointing out absurd ideas is "starting flame wars" with clowns like you it's shooting fish in a barrel. Having a "flame war" with you would be like picking a fight with a 5 year old. Your previous posts speak volumes along those lines. And I lived in the Puget Sound area for 25 years and crabbed quite a bit until the tribes wiped them out in the South Sound. I DO keep wild kings in the ocean, If you think we should throw them back to give more opportunities to the tribes, then YOU throw them back. If you don't want people to comment on stupid ideas then don't post them. And it's not like I see you at any state meetings we go to .Bob R

Summer crabbing in Puget Sound begins 1 July and runs five days a week through Labor Day - not exactly a derby mentality unless one believes that crab can only be caught on the opening week (which may be closer to the truth than I want to acknowledge given the way it has been going).

Wow! I like it! Way to get your dander up Bob.

Wow! I like it! Way to get your dander up Bob. [/quote]

Yeah, well, I get pissed when other rec folks push ideas that curtail other fishermen's opportunities to harvest food. It's not like clams are in short supply, but open it to unlimited clamming is a sure way to screw over all of us. The digs are set by abundance, we even get extra days sometimes due to tribal folks being generous when they have a surplus. It's not always "us vs. them". We've lost more then enough opportunities as it is.
And Larry B. is spot on, "derby mentality" indeed ! Why limit crabbers by how many days they go out? If you don't catch legal crab why lose a day?
I never heard either of his suggestions proposed when input is asked for by the state, if either was suggested at the state level I'm sure LOTS of us would have responded in a negative manner.
Oh, and one more thing. I am sorry that two people lost their lives doing something that we enjoy greatly, BUT if their partner had not lost sight of them (don't get more then 10 ft. from your partner) they prob. would still be alive. A lesson for all, the sea is unforgiving. Bob R

there's a couple things that could have happened. followed the surf out too far, too old to move fast, rogue wave, got knocked over by wave and disoriented. my guess is rogue wave like the one at Pacific beach some years ago that went halfway up to where the cars were parked and took out many lanterns. we noticed it was coming in too much and quickly headed up the beach, it would have been thigh deep where we were digging had we not got out of there

Jake should go back and read his attached news article again, he made some assumptions on the cause. There was mention of a "big wave" but no definitive cause for the accidents. I'm sure these deaths could have been prevented but no one know what happened including Jake

If you want to go back to the old days of long seasons it is really easy. Just reduce the catch per day so that instead of (say) 10 you get 100. Reduce the limit to 1/10 of what it is or reduce the daily effort to 1/10.

The fisheries are set to fish to a number. Just give ideas to hit that number with more days.

Wait, the answer is hatcheries. WDF did have, at one time, a Razor Clam hatchery. Get Brian Blake to sponsor a bill that would put one on every beach and we can fish all year. 'Cept maybe for that Domoic Acid thingy.

RC bios have told me, though, that much of or RC production of young comes from a relatively small area and turrets spread them up and down the coastline.

I'm always hearing about Homer Alaska and the razor clam digging.....the following article was interesting....


http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_new...19bb30f31a.html


Limit change from 60 clams to 25.......

The limit on the east side Cook Inlet beaches was historically 60 a day and 180 in possession from the 1960's. Every diggable tide is open all year, but most of the traffic happens from May - Sept.

As numbers and sizes of clams at Clam Gulch started to decline, the state decided to reduce the limit to 45 a day with 90 in possession out of concern for frank wastage. Who the hell needs 180 clams per person anyway?

Oh how the locals HOWLED about taking food off Alaskan dinner plates! Within one board cycle, the limit was restored back to 60/120 despite dwindling numbers and size.

Then the bottom finally fell out, esp at Ninilchik.

The limit was reduced by emergency order to 25/25 in 2013.

By 2014 the entire population had utterly collapsed and clamming was completely CLOSED. It has remained closed ever since.

Interesting how fish managers are so unwilling to consider the possibility of over-exploitation until the stock is virtually on death's door.

In the Motherland, we Ornamentals call this the foo king principle.

They are completely unable/unwilling to do the right thing until it's too foo king late! Same old story, just like salmon and steelhead

Interesting excerpt from an ADFG technical report as the issue was being brought forward to the Board of Fisheries back in 2010.

"A frequent response from diggers to the lack of clams or lack of large clams north of Ninilchik was a concern that the resource was overharvested and restrictions were needed. Although this response is understandable, examination of the fishery reveals that restrictions are unnecessary for conservation and would likely have little or no effect. "

J F C !

I was on the beach in the late 60's, granted the season was long...I'm not sure it ever closed????

What I remember was digging, mostly at night...and having VERY FEW other diggers.

If I had my way, out of Stators would be paying many times what they pay now for a license......I know its good for tourism but tough on the resource.

What many readers don't know....At one time, you could get a "commercial license" and dig as many as you wanted....wash tubs full, oh hell,,,,many don't know what a wash tub was....lmfao

FYI The hatchery was at the Willapa Bay Shellfish Lab (now called Willapa Bay Field Station) in Nahcotta. It started out as a pilot project (mid 1980's ) just to see if they could be reared in a hatchery environment. Once they found they could it morphed into an enhancement project. Biggest problem was they could never prove any of the clams they planted survived to make a contribution to the fishery. They tried various ways to mark with dyes, tetracycline, etc but didn't find anything effective.

At that same time they had a subtidal enhancement program that ran out of Montesano. They would collect clams just offshore in 20' of water or so. They towed a small sled with jets that would liquify the sand just enough to collect set clams ( 3/4 inch or smaller). They would get maybe 4-5 5 gallon buckets full of set clams a day and would then relay them for transplant to the research areas that were set up. Once again they couldn't prove it made any difference and both programs were defunded in 1988 or 1989.

[/quote]
What many readers don't know....At one time, you could get a "commercial license" and dig as many as you wanted....wash tubs full, oh hell,,,,many don't know what a wash tub was....lmfao [/quote]

There still is a commercial razor clam fishery which occurs only on the detached spits at the mouth of Willapa Bay. Been closed the past two years due to biotoxins but they might get a shot this year. Season used to start when the rec season ended but now usually starts April 1 and goes 8 weeks or so. Need a boat get there. Need a right of entry permit from DNR and a commercial license from WDFW. All landings have to go on fish receiving tickets. There is info and past fishery reports on the WDFW website if you are interested. Good diggers in good years can do a couple hundred pounds on a tide....average digger maybe 1/3 that.

I have a letter from IDFG where somebody had asked them how they managed trout. Note the acronyms. It was (kinda/sorta) tongue in cheek as more "real" information followed but it really does describe how management is accomplished.

1. Fish Until Community Collapses Under Pressure (FUCCUP)
2. Planning As Needed In Crisis (PANIC)
3. Synthesis in Nature (SIN) hatcheries......
4. Restore Ecosystem Production Emphasizing Native Trout (REPENT)

It's an endless cycle, FUCCUP, PANIC, SIN, and REPENT

There still is a commercial razor clam fishery which occurs only on the detached spits at the mouth of Willapa Bay. Been closed the past two years due to biotoxins but they might get a shot this year. Season used to start when the rec season ended but now usually starts April 1 and goes 8 weeks or so. Need a boat get there. Need a right of entry permit from DNR and a commercial license from WDFW. All landings have to go on fish receiving tickets. There is info and past fishery reports on the WDFW website if you are interested. Good diggers in good years can do a couple hundred pounds on a tide....average digger maybe 1/3 that. [/quote]

I know that the commercial crabbers have used commercial permits to dig razors for crab bait (!). Don't know if this is still done, but it was 10 years or so ago. Bob R

http://www.chinookobserver.com/co/local-news/20180206/two-die-in-rare-winter-drownings



I didnt make the assumptions. Your right no one knows. But two Women died on seperate beaches at the same time under nearly identical circumstances.
This is after WDFW and social media annoucements of planned night time clam digs. These announcements bring in people from all around.
What will happen at some point is we will lose the ability to have night time digs for safety reasons. Then we will have less opportunites.
This can be prevented by having reasonable seasons like everywhere else on the West Coast.

It's WDFW's best managed resource. We dig at night all the time. You can't dumb proof everything.

When I was involved with commercial management there were times when the fisherman had to make a decision. Do I fish in the storm or stay home. Some, unfortunately, died from going out. As an individual you have to decide whether or not conditions are safe for you.

With a limited resource we are fishing/clamming to a number. If numbers are left, more time is given.

There was another thought floated here that is of concern. Some view that the openings are for subsistence. Not that I eat what I catch but what I catch is what I have to eat. Recreational fisheries/hunts, at least in the populous states, are for recreation with the harvest being a benefit, especially with limited resources and an expanding human demand.

Do you really think that WDFW or someone else from the state is going to shut down night clamming because some folks don't use due caution when out in the real world at night? As pointed out above people make their own decisions as to whether or not to go out when the surf conditions (or marine conditions when boating) are marginal and thusly are either safe or not. It's their choice, not some hand holding state group. It has been pointed out that there are things you do to stay safe, the state advises people to use caution and not turn your back on waves. We've said clam in groups. Pay attention. What is it that you do not understand? Should we legislate against people who use due caution because of foolish people who pay with their lives?And where else on the West Coast do they have "Reasonable seasons" for razor clams that due not have night time digs? I'm having a harder and harder time figuring out where you are coming from, you seem to have a hard time in the darkness. Sounds like a personal issue, to me. Bob R

These Women lost there lives because they got turned around in the surf with lights in every direction.

Jake, that was an assumption. There was talk about a possible medical problem, and a big wave, and who all knows what else. We don't know for sure what happened and neither do you. Problem with most people is what they think happened soon become fact as far as they are concerned.

Sad.

That’s not saying much?

You certainly can’t dumb proof Wdfw. This announcement has been up for 3 days now without correction:


Razor clam digs approved March 2 and 3

Action: Opens Razor clam season

Effective date: 12:01 p.m. March 2 through 11:59 p.m. March 3, 2018

Digging is only allowed from: 12:01 a.m. through 11:59 a.m. each day.

Species affected: Razor clams

The specific low tides for this opener:

March 2, Friday - 6: 54 p.m.; -0.8 feet; Mocrocks

March 3, Saturday - 7: 34 p.m.; -0.3 feet; Mocrocks

Locations:

Mocrocks Beach, which extends from the Copalis River to the southern boundary of the Quinault Reservation near the Moclips River, including Iron Springs, Roosevelt Beach, Pacific Beach and Moclips.

Reason for action: Harvestable numbers of razor clams are available.

Information contact: Dan Ayres (360) 249-4628, Region 6 Montesano


Sending folks out in the middle of the night with no chance at clams.

I have already seen posts on other non fishing sites asking if the digs are at night. Also there are the usual folks from Portland heading up with there shovels. Thanks to social media. Last year wdfw announced a dig, then closed it due to biotoxin. I know people that went anyway and had to toss there clams.
If the best way to manage our clam resources is by social media announced seasons then why not do that with all our non razor clam beaches?
Instead of several month to year round seasons we could have one day or weekend social media announced openers. Retired Folks in RVs could drive the whole circuit, hitting a new beach every weekend. Wipe every living thing off the beach and move on. This would flood our state parks and make things way easier for Wdfw to manage.
I am for the night time clam digs. Just not the current system of social media sending everyone to pound sand in the dark at the same spot at the same time. This will cause a end to night time clam digging, not just for the ocean but everywhere!
If we allow this to happen it will be our fault for saying “how high”? every time Wdfw asks us to jump.

If you had ever dug razor clams you would know that you can dig 2 hours before a low tide , usually we are limited out an hour in. This tide (Friday) means it will be light 'till 6:00 or so, at least an hour to dig. Your rant and logic are difficult to understand. The times posted are the times when tides are at their lowest. You think they should tell people different times to limit how much is harvested? I'm going to go dig clams now, have fun arguing about digging clams! Bob R

If you read what was posted closely, and if we assume that is directly copied from WDFW, the OPENED digging from midnight to noon (AM is the morning) and the low tides are in the afternoon (PM).

I hope they simply screwed up the announcement and not the actual reg.

Can you read, bob?

Just out of morbid curiosity I checked the WDFW announcement on their website. Yep, the allow digging in AM and the low tide is in the PM. So, all you folks out there tonight are in violation. Guess the agency needs money.

I just called Region 6....

They were not aware of the mistake........way it reads, could be lots of people digging tonight...

and then

could be lots of people digging in the morning.............

I just came home from Aberdeen......LOTS of vehicles heading West !!!!!

Hope LE is in a good mood..........