No Skokomish River this year?

in my email
https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/northfalcon/2018/finalized_fisheries.html

Yah, what the heck Ron Warren?

"We cannot — and pretty strong words — go another year without fishing in the Skokomish River," Warren told members of the Kitsap fishing club

One very fundamental element of the "New Age" of Co-Management harmony fostered by the recent Plenary Meeting would have been permitting Recs to again fish the Skokomish River for hatchery clipped-fin Chinook as they had in years past.

Maybe it was just one of those things that Ron Warren promised, and later failed to achieve. From the Twin Harbors inward to Puget Sound, this seems to have become a pattern of sorts.

After that secretive "end run" around the Commission re: the 10 Yr. Puget Sound Management Plan, and all the uproar that resulted--he carried on as the lead Fisheries Mgr. into NOF...

What does his current Employee Performance Eval look like at this point in time?

Perf eval? This isn't the private sector where results matter. If anything, rewarded at our expense!

Total Agreement...ironically, it was the Commission's scathing Performance Review on Jim Unsworth that played a heavy hand in his "decision" to resign the Director's position.

This officially ticks me off. There is no excuse for the department to state they are continuing to "work with the tribe". Last year I talked to a staff member that stated he just needed to work out some details but that an opening was going to happen. Then Ron Warren and promises that the season would open up or a legal challenge would be made. Now they come back with continued negotiations? From my discussions with the staff member, negotiations were going on for at least a year. The closure has been for much longer. So, what is the delay. Clearly they can not get to an agreement on a fairly simple issue for close to 2 years.



Now look at the tribes statements.....
Miller said the tribe and state have not directly discussed reopening the fishery in 2018. The tribe will continue to defend its claim to the river, he said.

And Ron Warren's Statement>>>>Speaking at a Kitsap Poggie Club meeting in Bremerton Wednesday night, Ron Warren, head of the Department of Fish and Wildlife's fish program, said the state will bring forward a fishery package for the Skokomish River during this year's North of Falcon salmon season-setting process.
"We cannot — and pretty strong words — go another year without fishing in the Skokomish River," Warren told members of the Kitsap fishing club, many of whom remain outraged by the river closure.


Then the state's latest statement >>>>>Skokomish River: A portion of the Skokomish River remains closed to non-tribal fishing this year, due to an ongoing dispute over whether the river is part of the Skokomish Reservation. WDFW will continue to work with the Skokomish Tribe to resolve the matter

From the statements, I am left with these impressions. That, as stated, the river will remain closed this year. Not, may open, or a opening is being negotiated, but will remain closed. That the tribe has no intent on negotiating. And, three, the state intents do keep "negotiating".

Is any scenario in which we are not either being misinformed or clearly lied to?

From what I can gather from what the Attorney General's office stated, the only way to legally challenge this is to open it up, allow the Tribe to either sue the State or cite an angler, and then let the courts make a decision. Not opening it up or making means to do so appears to make it clear the State intends to do nothing.

I am not sure if this would legally work but this is how I am feeling.
At some point it may be necessary to just go down and start fishing. If the State tries to enforce the rules, it can be claimed they have no jurisdiction, having given in to the Tribe's claims. If the Tribe cites someone, then they will be forced to prove jurisdiction. Any opinion on this Todd?

I know most of you hate this fishery anyways, but the potential of what it could be should be considered. There is no reason it should open with the same regulations as the past. Regardless what happens, a clear opportunity for a reset is present.

If it doesn't open, they should put a six chinook limit in MA 12 south of Ayock.
SF

Some of the PS marine fisheries are better than I would have expected given the messaging leading up to NOF. I wonder if the Skok got horse-traded down the road for something in the salt. I won't make many friends by saying so, but the way that fishery was conducted on our part (ie. us rec's I mean) I'm OK with that, it was an embarrassment to WA sportsmen,

fb

Got to disagree vehemently with that perspective. There is a big difference between shutting down a fishery (if necessary) until a problem is resolved (and in this case State action was being taken) versus being totally displaced by a Sovereign Nation. Once that river access is gone it is gone forever.

Apparently a last minute "oh by the way" problem at NOF was mid-Canal Chinook.

I'm OK with that (disagreeing), and I respect your opinion on that.

fb

So only marine-grade ladders necessary this year...

Anyone that is surprised that RW didn't keep a promise on the skok hasn't been paying attention. He's been not fulfilling promises for well over a decade now and its been obvious if you were paying attention to salmon management in region 6. Now that he has a bigger role, expect more/bigger promises to be broken.

Its always a horse trade for something, but the rec's always seem to get the short end of the stick in the end.

I'm still going to the river a few times just to take a few dumps.

RW will bow down to tribal and commercial pressure at the expense of sportfishing every time. No spine.

I just put zincs on my 24 footer. All ready to hit the water....

I'm reaching the conclusion that it's worse than that. Nearly everyone everywhere wants to get along with the treaty tribes on fishery issues. However, a couple of the most influential managers in the Department's Fish Program want to get along with the tribes so much that they readily sell out recreational angler interests, you know, the 98% of us who pay the taxes and buy the licenses that make the very existence of WDFW possible. If WDFW cared about the constituents who make its existence possible, there is a simple, non-spineless jellyfish negotiation with the Skokomish Tribe. No non-treaty fishing on the lower Skokomish River, then close George Adams hatchery, not at some future date, but today. And when the last few year classes of hatchery salmon return this year and the next 3 years, open Hood Canal right in front of the mouth of the Skok to 5-day a week non-treaty gillnet fishing to prevent a dangerous over-escapement of hatchery fish that might otherwise breed with wild salmon. Cork 'em.

Amen. Take any existing smolts and release them into the nearest kiddy fishing pond.

Huevos? We don't need no stinkin' huevos.

To add to Salmo's thoughts, switch up production. Move Chinook to Hoodsport and try to move them to Quilcene NFH. Do only chum in the complex of hatcheries that are on the Skok.

I know they did Chinook at both sites so it can be done. There are established net and rec fisheries. And while still not really all that pristine, the Skok sporties should, from what I have heard, feel welcome on the Big Quil.

there isnt enough room on that little stretch of that little river to house any more idiots than the ones already showing up....

more people would destroy that fishery, its been going downhill for the last 15 years anyways, no respect for the fish, nor fisherman there that want to actually fish....

Evo said it. There's a reason the the Quilcene is often called the "Kill Scene."

Lots of very pale-looking "natives" standing on the bank at the mouth, waiting for the fish to enter the river so they can snag them, and if you fish in the estuary, they'll gang up on you and try to chase you off. I asked the local enforcement guy why the snagging is allowed to happen a few years back. He explained that anyone claiming to be native is assumed to be native, which means they are allowed to snag fish. Pretty weak....

I’m native....to Washington.
I look like it too.
Break out the trebles.
SF

If ya take a half pack of black yarn and use pencil lead to whip finish it to your treble...it's like coho Viagra. You hook a so many in the vent as they try to mate with it

From the Bremerton Sun>>>
"Skokomish Tribal Chairman Charles "Guy" Miller said Friday there was "brief" discussion of the Skokomish closure during the salmon meetings but the tribes did not offer to reopen recreational fishing on the river. Miller said no further negotiations have been arranged with the state. Skokomish representatives are open to discussing solutions with recreational fishing groups and Fish and Wildlife officials, he added.
"We're certainly willing to meet," Miller said. Skokomish Tribal Chairman Charles "Guy" Miller said Friday there was "brief" discussion of the Skokomish closure during the salmon meetings but the tribes did not offer to reopen recreational fishing on the river. Miller said no further negotiations have been arranged with the state. Skokomish representatives are open to discussing solutions with recreational fishing groups and Fish and Wildlife officials, he added.
"We're certainly willing to meet," Miller said. "

This is exactly why we need to get into those meetings. So did the state push the issue, or is he lying.
kitsap sun

Well stated, Krijack...but just one more addition to a long list of examples of WDFW BOHICA: "Bend Over--Here It Comes Again."

They say one thing, then do another...and the only way any credibility will result is via your crystal clear conclusion!

Just move the fish to the Satsop, the Skoks will be over to net them soon. I wouldn't mind a few to actually keep in the Satsop. Im probably killing enough of them with eggs down their throats, be nice to eat a couple. Of course it wont last long when the tribe claims "accustomed fishing grounds" anyways...might as well enjoy it while we have it.

Can't move the HC fish out of basin without jumping through tons of hoops, including co-manager approval.

You can. though, move the money to support more production...

If the powers that be determine the Skokomish belongs to the Tribe alone, I guess I can accept that. The problem I have with all these State-funded fisheries being closed or going limited access (besides the obvious, negative impact on my opportunities to fish) is that the citizens of the State are being robbed of fish they paid to produce in those systems. If people want exclusive access to public resources, make them pay (what it's actually worth) for it themselves, or else stop providing it. Individuals, corporations, and sovereign nations alike. Wanna pay to play? You got it!

I don't think there is anyone out there, including the Tribe, that has studied the issue that thinks that the Tribe's claim to the river is above questionable. The tribe will never just agree they don't own it, but at the same time do not want to get the claim in front of a judge.

It is looking to me that the State solves a few things by doing nothing. One, they get the Tribe to "like them more"; Two, they do not have to address the issue of snagging or have to actually police the fishery; They do not have to tick off the masses by resetting the fishery into something other than a snag fishery. and lastly, they can just sit on their butts and do nothing, which, in government, is the preferred approach.

From what was told to me by a staff member and what seems to be hinted to by the Tribe (Charles Miller), is that the fishery could be easily opened if the state would just reign it in a bit. But in doing so, the state would have to take responsibility for making new rules and enforcing them. That seems to be much harder for them then to just point the finger at the Tribe and do nothing. Given the time, my goal will be to convince them otherwise. I am giving Mr. Warren a few days to come out with something, but after that the phone will start ringing, and hopefully, some political pressure can be put on the department. More and more I am convinced this is almost all on the Department and their reluctance to actually do anything.

You may have hit the nail squarely on the need for WDFW to clean up the fishery. Kind of odd, that the Skoks can legally snag. I remember, a long time ago, when WDF had a few places close to hatcheries where snagging was legal and in the regs. Those fish are there to be moved.

From experience with chum, requiring single circle hooks would significantly reduce snagging. Release of a snagged fish often required just giving them slack. It would make enforcement easy. Non-circle is a citation. No intent needed, no need to watch them fish, just check the gear.

Mr. Warren nor anyone else could gives a rat's as$ about phone calls or emails or any communications from the recreational stakeholders. We presented thousands of emails, signatures and hundreds of calls and all we got was the finger!

There were discussions with the Skokomish on opening the river, but they were not done officially, since that may have gotten to the commission and then to the public. They were done in "secret" using "select" members of the fish mafia and involved a "deal" for more concessions like Baker lake eyed eggs being increased to the tribe, and other concessions. From what I heard, the demands just kept coming, more and more until the talks broke down.

The tribes have the power over WDFW and that is primarily because of two people. One who is in a management role and the other in the AG's office. Combined they are doing the tribes bidding through secret deals and lack of spine.

If you guys only knew about how much crap is being done under the table, by not only the WDFW, but by individuals in the fish mafia and in various groups you would be floored.

The recreational community is being taken to the shed because there is a prevailing attitude that we are just a bunch of dumb, ignorant snaggers who cannot and will not organize and therefor are very easily manipulated and ignored no matter how much we may think otherwise. Trust me, those who you think are representing you, are only representing their own prestige and position since they are in the "good ol boys" club and they sure like it there because it strokes their ego.

What does it take to compel a public servant to come forth in an honest and sincere manner? Given the present scenario at the federal level, it seems to me that the general lack of truth and integrity has trickled down to all levels.

When I was brought up, I learned that your word was your bond...and that commitment was a direct reflection of your personal character. There are many individuals on this blog that both share and exhibit those points-of-view.

There are WDFW management personnel who have followed a different path, plain and simple...and all the plenary meetings and calls for unity and harmony you collectively muster won't amount to a hill of $h*t until they commit to the greater good for all parties involve--not just themselves.

I talked to a tribal friend, former neighbor. He echoed that the State needed to make this a less hostile environment before a fishery could resume.

I believe this is the point WDFW needs to address in a days of the week regulation or whatever to minimize gear conflict.

I miss fishing the Skok.

I miss the peace, quiet, and tranquility of the river......



And most of all, I miss my ladder.



I will say that the kings were of high quality and very tasty.

BTW, your girlfriend says "Hi", Coop.



Oh, and Vhawk says "Hi" to you all too!

I 100% fully support a year round sportfishery on the Skokomish, because it would keep anyone who thinks that looks like fun from ever being on a river near me, pretty Chinook or not.

And...that's the "nice" part of the river. Get some pics along the cutoff road and you will see the "real" Skokomish Chinook fishery.

Fish on...

Todd

Apparently I have grown a bit more accepting of the clown shows, if not only to use them to keep the clowns somewhere other than where I am...anyone remember this rant from 11 years ago?

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/368686/1.html

There are a bunch of dudes on that thread that I miss...it's been a long time since I have seen hide nor hair of them, and a couple of them are no longer with us.

Fish on...

Todd

That was an awesome thread!

Still don't know why JG shut that one down.

Hell, I think I'm going to open it back
up.

I move we open that thread back up.

I say we keep it going. Mob rules. Any seconds on this motion?

Personally liked the Stam/Todd fights. Unfortunately, I don't think they hate each other these days. And Sol is gone, along with most of the fun people in that thread. Bummer. Maybe it should just stay locked and buried...along with all the other turds on the Skok.

One of the last times I visited the river was for the limited Float/bait only fishery. There was almost no one on the river. A complete reset with these type of restrictions are what the department needs to do and what I think the tribe is holding out for. I am starting to think the department doesn't want the old fishery, but does not have the guts to upset the snagging masses. There is nothing inherently wrong with the river, just the mentality. The department has an excellent opportunity to change that.

I agree...and the snaggers may be surprised to find that they can actually catch fish, if they try.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. I don't think there's much to add to that thread, Paker, but I am glad I was able to find it and give it a quick read.

The good ol' days

IMHO Harvest Management at WDFW is to busy jerking off over the numbers of fishes.
They are ill equipped to deviate from the former fisheries mindset. Time for Staff to move on...

WOW....


VHawk threatened to sue me

That’s where I learned to float fish eggs. Has some amazing bobber runs and the fish almost always cooperated. Just think if they weren’t being harrased from the power lines up! These fish cut great to!

I watched some guys trying to snag with bobbers at the cutoff during the bobber only fishery, it was funny.

You make a great point. Beyond the chinook snagfest there were quality fish to catch.
More coho and the later chum through December...

Wonder who Evo is? I feel like someone has a man crush. Try to find my old posts and all I see is Evo reminiscing over old times. Mom is that you?

So are these ladder guys the pillagers of the Sound ?

VHAWK sighting!!!!!!

Cooooool.