rail line boat launch

are there environmental reasons to not build new rail line type boat launches in saltwater? the obvious one would be steel in saltwater. but I am not even sure that is that bad?

and yes I am thinking of putting one in for a private residence. I want something just also want to be friendly to the fishes. so ideas would be encouraged.

thanks

It would rust, unless painted/protected. That doesn't seem much of a problem. How it was anchored could be an issue. One problem with any launch is that it can stop sediment movement so it should either be on legs/pilings or laid directly on beach.

Depending on the size of boat and length of launch needed it might work best to have a "portable" launch. Out in spring, back in for winter.

Ideally, and many of my friends say I live in a fantasy world anyway, you should have a local regulator (WDFW Habitat, County, City) to brainstorm a solution for that location. How can I get my boat in the water in the best manner for me, the beach, and the environment. I my experience, this yielded some of the best solutions to what had been very intractable problems.

You need to also run it by the Tribe that is in the area. (The tribes have very large "usual and accustomed lands", not just reservation). They will have to give the OK or you could find yourself in litigation. (Especially if there are shellfish) There is also the the environmental impact study that needs to be done, the permitting process, the natural resources guys and of course, the county and city folks who need to weigh in. Remember, the land owner does not really "own" the land to do as he wishes. He just pays tax on it...

The levels of bureaucracy are almost insurmountable! Just take a look at how the Suquamish tribe has stymied the elevated ramp installation at Point No Point for over FIVE YEARS and that was after WDFW went through County and State procedures!!

The final required permit will have to come from the Corps and their rules allow only one installation per beach property; for example, a launch or a mooring buoy and there is a limitation on the number of mooring buoys per acre. They will also send your detailed project out to all of the tribes having U&A rights for the area of your project. It was at that point that the tribes objected to the PNP ramp (even after significant improvements in mitigation were negotiated with WDFW).

If your proposed project (rail or mooring buoy) involves DNR land you will need to obtain a permit from them prior to submitting to the Corps. My experience was that the DNR was fairly easy but it took two years to process through the Corps.

If you move forward be prepared for long delays and multiple moments of extreme frustration.

I drove by the beautiful launch parking lot at PNP twice this weekend.
Empty at 6:15 and again at 1:00.

Do you own the tidelands you were think of building this on?
SF

I re-built a marine rail system many years ago. Permits were not a problem then, but much more difficult now from what I hear. My buddy on Hood Canal was told no Army Corps permits are currently being issued for docks etc. because tribes are not approving them. May be a different story in other locations. Surplus rail is quite durable in salt water, mine are still useable 40 years later. If you can get a permit, guidelines will require that the rails are set on blocks above the surface of the beach. Much easier to do this if you are upgrading an existing rail system rather than starting from scratch.

Good luck.

Re-think the concept of "own". Share is probably more accurate. There are distinct demarcations on where a property owners land ends in relation to the tidal marks, and even this is being challenged by the tribes. If you live on property that has a saltwater shore, you may not really "own" anything beyond your door. If there are shellfish, then your really lost. Of course, you still get to pay premium taxes on all of it.

I get that as I have a number of friends that own property on PS and the canal. Some have experience tribal shellfish harvest on their property after receiving prior notice.
Not every deed is identical in regards to ownership of beach front saltwater property.
SF

well it is in Alaska.... so the permits and stuff are not the issue.

the issue is do I want this type of system in my food supply? or should I build some form of removable wooden rail and trolley system with untreated wood?
I know we have.... a lot of ex researcher's and wdfw types here, as well as many grad's of the fisheries programs at the state schools on the board. as well as many guys who have real world experience here. some have already answered, but what am I looking at for damage to the environment? and I do realize I have limits as the beach is the road for the people on the other side of me. although I am not sure they have a legal easement, I am not going to be the guy to take the bureaucracy to the woods.

wood will rot. and will need to be replaced a lot, rail line If I can find it, will last me the rest of my life. but I don't want to have to travel further for crab because I put this in, I don't want the salmon to not swim by the beach on the way to the creek because I put this in. the beach is rocky with some streams nearby so sediment could be an issue. that may just mean I can't go as far out as I want. because I don't want to mess up the "road". elevated close to shore should not be an issue, putting it in the ground further out where the travel is will be the only hope there. so there are going to be some limitations, to tide cycle. there is a rope/pully system there for low tides. but I didn't want to store the boat out there that much...
so it may be a combination set up rail to point A and rope to the morage buoy, get the boat out only at high tide. that would reduce it's time on a rope to less than a week most of the time as there will be a high tide I can move it in at that is not dark.
anyway I am overthinking it now.....
please feel free to send me thoughts and links. as for boat size I am thinking 22 foot alumaweld with a pair of 75 hp's on the back.... don't need it to go 50 mph but need to be sure it will get me home, but that is a completely different topic.

What kind of shoreline do you have? Natural or some sort of bulkhead? Might want to do some sort of sling instead. Totally out of the water removes some issues. Only be launch able/retrievable at the appropriate tide level, though.

We are trying to get permits for stone steps. The bottom one will be inset into the bank so there will be encroachment to the beach. It will be interesting to see the regulator's comments.

We have a gill net out front for the first time since we've been here, that I've seen.

If money were no object I can envision a boat house with rails leading into it. I can think of one private, one boat boat house still in use here in P.S. with rails into it. For the neighbors build a plank crossing.

I have seen a few saltwater ramps and such that are actually cut into the shore, above high tide. Boat houses too. Money becomes more of an object but it makes some of the issues like sediment migration a smaller point.

This question, though, highlights a real problem we have. We approach a project with "I want to build X here". That immediately sets up a conflict. Rather, "I want to do Y (launch a boat, keep water out of my basement), how do I do it?" Best projects I got built were where we started with the result and worked backwards.

It changes the mindset of all involved to what would work. I do know, though, that some regulators don't want to do this as it means they have to propose and support rather than simply say no. It also meant that I and my crew had to learn new ways of doing things. I had a really smart crew.

my shoreline is natural. fairly steep with a hillside that will bury me and the house at some point I am sure. the tidelands are flat for a long ways. what do I want it to do.....
I want to be able to store boat most of the time out of the water. I figure on fishing from boat every few days at most. I have power so a winch system is in the realm of feasible. before winter I will want it to go under cover. the current cover structure is parallel to the shore and too short for the boat I want. and has a muddy bogish area between it and the house. the rope pulley system is on the other side of the house from the boat storage structure and seems to be communal with the neighbor. the property lines make me think there is little room for a new storage structure between the house and the line.... but maybe.

my thought is to build a rail toward the storage structure. hook the trailer to a winch and launch and retrieve with that trailer only. train wheels on it would be nice. jack up the structure spin and raise it so the boat fits under and mount a winch. easy peasy... yeah right!
what I could likely get away with would be a small floating dock that the boat can run up on to for the summer and take it to the launch 1/2 mile away at the beginning and end of every season. driving on the beach. but I am still looking to go big.
Eric

Creativity might work. I would try and get somebody from the (City/County) to come out and brainstorm on the specific ground. A "custom" trailer with big wheels might work just fine, at higher tides. I am enough of an optimist that there is a reasonable solution out there, if heads can get together.