Willapa Basin gets the AXE!

Following the lead of the Columbia Basin and its horrible chinook returns, the ENTIRE basin closes to ALL fishing (rec and commercial) until further notice.

Yeah... it's that bad for chinook

huh? I guess no one has been on the rivers recently.. there's plenty there we just need rain to move em. That's a shame.

Here is the official link from WDFW

https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/erule.jsp?id=2214


A question I have is there a possibility that Grays Harbor and its tributaries could face a similar closure, or are we in better shape here?

WTF? There's more than enough in the Nemah and Naselle's hatcheries and the Willapa is off to an ample start with a good amount staging for the next water movement. Is there a political bargaining game going on with the non-tribal killnet fishery?

WDFW could post the numbers needed to meet egg-take needs versus the numbers on hand now to make the decision transparent.

Here is the link as it is posted. https://wdfw.wa.gov/hatcheries/escapement/2018/092018.pdf

Without pulling the model up the last number I had was that hatchery chinook were at around 29% of forecast data in commercial with rec showing about the same. NOR's were lower. So the Naselle at 111 NOR with a 60 M to 40 F you could say the jig is up.

To be frank after 2020 returns regardless of ocean or other conditions this is the coming norm. After 2024 it will likely be worse as then the NOR's in Willapa will be lacking any substantial staying that back filled the NOR void. You will have hatchery fish ( as in the past ) but a small NOR population on its own after many generations hatchery straying.

Amazes me that the summer fishery off Westport, was limited, then suddenly the Chinook limit was raised from 1 to 2. Did this increase in Chinook take, cause the Columbia, Cowlitz and Willapa problems????? I don't know, but it sure couldn't have helped.

You guys still question WDFW fisheries management????

That is laughable.

You know they will screw up and have failed for decades.

Hell.........................They're right on schedule.

Excellent!

Hopefully there are sufficient Coho to reopen the Willapa fishery once the Chinook spawning season is complete. It isn't a pretty picture.

Next year will be even worse

Wdfw really is pathetic. good luck on the hump this weekend everyone.

Good God..... What a joke. Some areas down there are polluted with chinook.

MSY really has nothing to do with biology. It is basically an economic evaluation; what is the minimum investment (spawners) for the maximum return (dead fish in the boat). It looks at a single stock as if that stock exists totally independent of the ecosystem. Further, it is backward-looking. If, for example, the ocean becomes less productive because pinniped predation (Larry's favorite) an MSY analysis will only show that escapement is not producing human catch. So, lower the goal.

Further, we know that the ocean has long-term cycles; longer than PDO. These are ignored too.

Using MSY we'll continually lower the goals and keep on fishing.

Ah ............ guy the nets and rec harvest was at about 29% of forecast on hatchery and lower on NOR's. Nor's at 15 to 20% of forecast will shut down any fishery regardless of the number of hatchery returns present.

We had rain early sucked a bunch in that held on the drop. Thats it in a nutshell, not a river full of fish. The minutes of the Willapa Advisers meeting are posted with documents on WDFW's website. If that is to much e mail Barbara at R6 and get on her mailing list. Staff has been pretty good about getting info out but cannot force folks to read it.

Give that man a GOLD star.



No matter how depressed the run, there is always an MSY e-goal that can be calculated... and that's what the bass turds will fish it down to.

Will Grays Harbor and all of it's tributaries be next?

I have a friend that lives on the Willapa and he says the hatchery if loaded with kings. Forks creek was full of fish and lower river has fish boiling everywhere. He drove up the Nemah and Naselle and says the rivers are teaming with fish and the water too low for fish to get to the hatchery. he said they should have walked the river to really get an idea of how many fish are in there before they closed the whole somebitch down. Watch and see how many are called surplus ( MISS MANAGED ) in the end.

This. if anyone has spent any time on these rivers in the past month they'd know they are loaded with fish.

One of the results of hatchery production is often the over-harvest of wild fish. They are different.

Back in the 70s, PS experienced two problems with Chinook. Hatchery surpluses in most systems and under-escapement of wilds. The WDF solution? They lowered the wild goals on the streams, like the Green, with the most egregious surpluses. They were then happy to report that they could now achieve the wild goal and avoid surpluses.

Consider now that they will try and produce more hatchery Chinook for the SRKW. If, at the same time, they try to rebuild the wild runs then we may see even more "surpluses".

Want wild fish? Get rid of hatcheries. Want hatchery fish? Blow away the wilds. Look at the comments here. There are (lots, gazillions, way too many) hatchery fish out in the river; let us kill them. And, as Rivrguy points out, there just aren't very many wilds and the release mortality, if every angler was law abiding and highly skilled, would still significantly impact the remainder.

Over 200 years of hatchery production in Willapa Bay, no true wild fish remains in this system.

Any fish left alone to spawn in the wild, rear in the wild, and return to repeat the process will over time evolve to be WILD. They will adapt to the system as it exists today. But, keep putting in hatchery genes that are adapted to a different rearing environment and you get mongrel progeny.

It is true that the original, un-mixed natural stock probably doesn't exist. Unless one holds to extreme racial purity beliefs that doesn't matter if we let what surveys to spawn from the wild is allowed to spawn in the wild without genetic pollution from the hatchery fish.

Besides, the environment had changed over 200 years (hatcheries being more like 120 years old in the PNW) that something genetically pure from 200 years ago wouldn't make it today.

So if the QIN numbers suck this week, will grays harbor rivers be next? If the Humptulips is any indication (likely not) the GH fishery should be pretty darn good. I’ve done some looking around, needless to say, plenty of coho around. Going to be dark by the 1st. I’m sure WDFW will do the right thing...LOL

I've been to Aberdeen the past few days......QIN is getting fish, gill netters are taking some fish, set netters behind the Mall had fish hitting the net, Rivrguy and I waiting for a while to see if they would "pick the fish", we both wanted to see number and kind but they never showed while we were there.

QIN also nets 9/30 - 10/02.....I would hope QIN shares the catch numbers with WDFW, quickly, gut feeling is there will be fish for the sport season.


Chinook and Coho jack fishing was OK, not great, and there were a few adults that were released or broke off...…..


Do the fish need rain???? Yes, I'd say it would help both Willapa and Grays Harbor but we all know what can happen....once it starts it can get ugly fast and some years it stay ugly.

Most fisherman I've talked to have been 2-3 Kings on the lower Hump. A few Silvers in the mix.

This is the reason I didn't like the new exclusion area at the mouth of the drainage.

IMHO selective harvest should have been allowed there.

Selective harvest works only if the non-selected stock can withstand the mortality that would occur. It is all a numbers game but that is what has to be.

If you want a fish to eat, WDFW should directly surplus fish out of the hatchery to consumers. Some Tribes do this, other states do this. Protects the Wilds, utilizes the Hatcheries.

WDFW FISHING RULE CHANGE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov

September 26, 2018

Salmon fishing to re-open in Marine 2-1 and the Willapa Bay Control Zone

Action: Marine area 2-1 (Willapa Bay) and the Willapa Bay Control Zone to re-open for coho and chum salmon fishing. The daily limit is six salmon, up to two adult salmon may be retained. Release chinook.

Effective dates: Sept. 27 until further notice

Species affected: Salmon.

Location: Marine Area 2-1, Willapa Bay Control Zone.

Reason for action: Fall chinook returns to tributaries of Willapa Bay have been significantly lower than preseason predictions and hatchery returns are lower than needed to make egg take at this time. Historic run-timing and stock composition data suggests minimal fall chinook encounters are likely to occur in marine area fisheries.

Additional information: Anglers must stop fishing for salmon after the adult portion of the daily limit is retained.

Managers will continue to assess chinook returns and species composition of marine area fisheries in order to determine if additional actions are warranted.

Information contact: Chad Herring, South Coast Fishery Policy Analyst, (360) 249-1299.



...Fishers must have a current Washington fishing license, appropriate to the fishery. Check the WDFW "Fishing in Washington" rules pamphlet for details on fishing seasons and regulations. Fishing rules are subject to change. Check the WDFW Fishing hotline for the latest rule information at (360) 902-2…
Persons with disabilities who need to receive this information in an alternative format or who need reasonable accommodations to participate in WDFW-sponsored public meetings or other activities may contact Dolores Noyes by phone (360-902-2349), TTY (360-902-2207), or email (dolores.noyes@dfw.wa.gov). For more information, see http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/reasonable_request.html.

This message has been sent to the WDFW Regulatory Information mailing list.
Visit the Emergency Fishing Rule Website at: https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/
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And

WDFW FISHING RULE CHANGE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov

September 26, 2018

Salmon fishing to close in Willapa Bay tributaries

Action: Sections of Willapa Bay tributaries will remain closed for salmon fishing until further notice.

Effective dates: Oct. 1 until further notice

Species affected: Salmon.

Location: North Nemah River from Nemah Hatchery barrier dam to N700 Rd.; Willapa River from Fork Creek to Hwy. 6 Bridge; Fork Creek from Forks Creek Hatchery rack upstream 500’ at fishing boundary sign; North River from Hwy. 105 Bridge to Fall River; and Smith Creek from mouth to Hwy. 101 Bridge.

Reason for action: These sections of Willapa Bay tributaries were scheduled to open Oct. 1 for salmon fishing. WDFW previously closed the lower stretches of these tributaries to protect returning fall chinook.

Fall chinook are returning to tributaries of Willapa Bay in significantly lower numbers than preseason predictions in all fisheries. Closing the salmon fisheries will increase the number of hatchery fish available to make egg take goals at this time.

Additional information: Managers will continue to assess Chinook returns and re-open if warranted.

The following sections of Willapa Bay tributaries remain closed to salmon fishing until further notice:

Bear River from mouth to Lime Quarry Road; Naselle River from mouth to Naselle Hatchery attraction channel; Middle Nemah River from mouth to Middle Nemah A-Line; North Nemah River from HWY 101 to bridge on Nemah Valley Road; South Nemah River, from mouth upstream; Willapa River from mouth to Fork Creek; and South Fork Willapa River from mouth to Pehl Rd. bridge.

Information contact: Chad Herring, South Coast Fishery Policy Analyst, (360) 249-1299.



...Fishers must have a current Washington fishing license, appropriate to the fishery. Check the WDFW "Fishing in Washington" rules pamphlet for details on fishing seasons and regulations. Fishing rules are subject to change. Check the WDFW Fishing hotline for the latest rule information at (360) 902-2…
Persons with disabilities who need to receive this information in an alternative format or who need reasonable accommodations to participate in WDFW-sponsored public meetings or other activities may contact Dolores Noyes by phone (360-902-2349), TTY (360-902-2207), or email (dolores.noyes@dfw.wa.gov). For more information, see http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/reasonable_request.html.

This message has been sent to the WDFW Regulatory Information mailing list.
Visit the Emergency Fishing Rule Website at: https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/
To UNSUBSCRIBE from this mailing list: http://wdfw.wa.gov/lists/unsubscribe.html

True.....but ugh...…….I've worked egg taking at hatcheries, also helped filet fish for food banks......I do not eat any "red meat fish" unless I catch them myself or were shared from others in my boat.


Many hatchery fish or brood stocked fish are just too far past prime eating..

WDFW FISHING RULE CHANGE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov

September 28, 2018

Most Willapa Bay tributaries to open for coho

Action: Opens salmon in Willapa Bay tributaries with scheduled salmon seasons, except the Naselle River. Salmon daily limit is 6 fish, up to 2 adults may be retained, and no more than 1 adult may be a wild coho. Release all chinook.

Effective date: Oct. 1 until further notice.

Species affected: Salmon.

Location: Bear River; Fork Creek; Middle Nemah River; North Nemah River; South Nemah River; North River; Smith Creek; Willapa River; Willapa River; South Fork.

Reason for action: WDFW previously closed these areas to salmon fishing to protect fall chinook, which were returning in lower numbers than expected. Over the past week, active brood stocking efforts conducted by hatchery staff and volunteers have been significantly increased, making it likely that hatchery production goals for fall chinook will be met on the Willapa and Nemah river systems. Additionally, the proportion of females in the broodstock collected in these systems is higher than expected.

Returns of fall chinook needed for hatchery production in the Naselle River system are still short of the production goal. The Naselle River will remain closed to salmon fishing.

Retention of fall chinook is prohibited in all fisheries in the Willapa Bay watershed as a conservation measure in order to focus harvest opportunity on coho.

Additional information: Gamefish seasons remain as scheduled in the Washington Sport Fishing Rules pamphlet.

Information contact: Chad Herring, South Coast Fishery Policy Analyst, (360) 249-1299.



...Fishers must have a current Washington fishing license, appropriate to the fishery. Check the WDFW "Fishing in Washington" rules pamphlet for details on fishing seasons and regulations. Fishing rules are subject to change. Check the WDFW Fishing hotline for the latest rule information at (360) 902-2…
Persons with disabilities who need to receive this information in an alternative format or who need reasonable accommodations to participate in WDFW-sponsored public meetings or other activities may contact Dolores Noyes by phone (360-902-2349), TTY (360-902-2207), or email (dolores.noyes@dfw.wa.gov). For more information, see http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/reasonable_request.html.

This message has been sent to the WDFW Regulatory Information mailing list.
Visit the Emergency Fishing Rule Website at: https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/
To UNSUBSCRIBE from this mailing list: http://wdfw.wa.gov/lists/unsubscribe.html

Mcclellan, Barbara A (DFW)
<barbara.mcclellan@dfw.wa.gov>

1:44 PM

Hi All, Attached are updates for the Willapa Bay marine recreational fishery similar to what has been going out. The catch estimate is inclusive of data through yesterday, Sept. 27, 2018.

We had staff out yesterday on the docks. We have staff out today as well and they will be out there on Sunday for the last day of September.



Also attached is an update of the Naselle Hatchery rack returns through yesterday, Sept, 27, 2018.



We will be opening the freshwater systems in Willapa Bay effective Monday, October 1 except for Naselle River. WDFW previously closed these areas to salmon fishing to protect fall chinook, which were returning in lower numbers than expected. Over the past week, active brood stocking efforts conducted by hatchery staff and volunteers have been significantly increased, making it likely that hatchery production goals for fall chinook will be met on the Willapa and Nemah river systems. Additionally, the proportion of females in the broodstock collected in these systems is higher than expected.

Returns of fall chinook needed for hatchery production in the Naselle River system are still short of the production goal. The Naselle River will remain closed to salmon fishing.

The regulation will be daily limit of 6 fish, up to 2 adults may be retained, and no more than 1 adults may be a wild coho. Release ALL Chinook. Retention of fall chinook is prohibited in all fisheries in the Willapa Bay watershed as a conservation measure in order to focus harvest opportunity on coho.

The commercial fishery will fish Monday through Friday next week, Oct. 1 – 5 in areas 2M, 2N, 2T, and 2U.

They will be required to release All Chinook as well.



Summary of marine recreational landed catch data online can be found at:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/creel/willapa_bay/



Summary of commercial landed catch data online can be found at:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/commercial/salmon/landings_willapabay.html





If you have any comments or questions about any of the information provided, you can call Chad Herring or myself directly or send an email to WillapaBay@dfw.wa.gov.

Thank you,

Barbara

I guess it sucks for real , even the netters. Managed to scratch out a small, fat King this year in 8 hrs of trolling. Saw a big, heavy Grey Whale blow by from 100 yards, although!

One thing happening up in AK, so it may be more coastwide but un-looked for, is some real food issues in the ocean.

Pinks seem to outcompeting everything else up there. Since ours are down it may no be such an issue here. The biggie is a decline in size at age. In the past, the fish got smaller due to harvest (hook and line) of young fish. They got younger due to the same thing for Chinook.

Now, though, there isn't the food to let them grow to normal size at age. Further, the larger fish die on the return home because in the warmer water they can't eat enough to meet metabolic needs. It is not that they aren't eating, it is that they fill up on metaphoric celery instead of a loaded pizza (an example most here will get). They vanish.

So, if this is true, then AK/BC could have a pretty good fishery on the immatures (abundance-based) and then the adults just drop away. What is left is smaller but in what looks to be good shape because they got enough food to fill their stomachs.

The closure of Willapa Bay and it's tribs is not due to low fish returns. The 3 hatcheries totaled 9330 spawnable fish which could have conservatively produced 11 million eggs, (9330 x .4(females) x 3000(eggs per female). The egg take goal is a bit of a mystery but should be around 8-9 million if the governor's request for increased Chinook production is the plan. Low warm water and Ick caused excessive mortalities (4607) especially in the Willapa (837) and Nehma (3562). While mortalities are normal for all hatcheries usually they are in the hundreds not thousands. Those 4607 morts could have produced another 5.5 million eggs.

The problem is raising 3 million Chinook in the Nehma which is nothing more than a PISS ANT CREEK. Great stream system for Chum, but too little water and too many Chinook for consistent results.

The mortalities in the Nehma are the only reason the Naselle remains closed for any salmon fishing. Something needs to change.

They opened the Naselle River.

https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/erule.jsp?id=2234

Limit of two adults, only one of which can be a wild coho. No Chinook retention at all.

Chum's are mostly C/R, so for all practical purposes, the Naselle Rv is coho only.