Skagit Steelhead Season

If you haven't seen it yet, WDFW issued a news release this morning announcing that the Skagit and Sauk Rivers steelhead CNR season won't be open this Feb. - Apr. The reason is the low preseason runsize forecast of 3,963 steelhead. That is below the 4,000 minimum required for a season under the Resource Management Plan developed by the state and tribal co-managers and approved by NMFS in 2018.

It's sad, but given the extremely low returns of hatchery winter steelhead thus far this season, it's not surprising that wild steelhead runs would be below average this year as well.

That's convenient for them. I guess we should all be greatful that we had one last full season on the Skagit. I'm sure they will leave all of the coastal rivers open though.

Here it is:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/catch-and-relea...d-projected-low


My sense is that this won't be the last. The Oly Pen rivers might be next.

Last two weekends a guy from Chilliwack BC was at my chosen fishing spot on the Nooksack an hour before first light because the fishing is so lousy and crowded up there. If fishermen from Chilliwack choose the Nooksack over the Vedder, and are posting up in their spot way before daylight, we steelhead fishers are surely fukt.

Yup congrats.

Wild fish all the way fern feelers.

From a population standpoint on the Skagit, there isn't much difference between 3,999 and 4,000. It's schitty.

I assume their will be absolutely zero nets in the river then. Right?

I expect that the usual test fishing will occur where biological data on the run is collected. This occurs every year, including the nine years the river was closed to steelhead sport fishing. Worrying about that is worrying about the wrong thing IMO.

How about "bycatch" in the Baker sockeye fishery?

How would more hatchery fish keep the river open in March and April?

37 projected fish? And I thought our fish management in Cali was fked up. Wait ,it is. 37 fish

I used to wade nipple deep in the tailout of the cedar run on the Chili well before light. Course, dozen fish days out of a couple good holes were a reasonable reality back then.. if the fishins good.

Fill the rivers with fish and then fish on them.
or scientifically support the excuses not to.

Maybe you missed the memo.

We DID fill the fivers with fish. They left as babies, went out to sea, and never came back as 2-salt fish.

Some 3-salt and 4-salt fish are coming back...but 2-salts seem to be gone.

Downside: Fewer fish to be caught
Upside: If you do get one, it will be probably be a good quality large fish.

The other memo coming out seems to indicate the wild component is having returning issues as well.

This has nothing to do with wild/hatchery steelhead and management practices. Has everything to do with climate change (natural or human made) and how it's effecting our oceans and the critters in it.

Got the memo.
Change Tee Pees.

Plant more white-man.

Anyone want to buy some nice fishing rods?

Why does golf have to suck so badly and be so boring?

I could always take up bird watching.

OH JOY!

I am no fisheries biologist but I can read and understand data. And make a fairly well thought out analysis of coincidence and causation. Parker is absolutely right, the more fish we have put out into the ecosystem, the less that returned. Partially this is because of generalized ocean conditions (which are likely not going to get better in the short term), partially it is because salmon and steelhead are one of the top predators in the ocean but they must depend on growing rapidly in order to attain that status. More fish, same amount of feed = smaller salmon & steelhead. Smaller salmon and steelhead = more predation on them. We want the easy solution, make more fish. It's a fool's paradise....

Natural resource management has been strongly siloed across the board for a long time. Development doesn't hurt fish. Making lakes multi-species is fine. Harvesting everything at MSY doesn't affect anything else.

I believe, based on information my colleagues share, that the whole damn Pacific ecosystem (terrestrial and aquatic) is setting up to collapse. The information has been there for decades; it seems that we have reached some sort of tipping point that is being pushed by climate change. But, without CC we would still be facing issues.

For too long, for example, the ocean was a "Back Box". Poor returns-bad conditions. Good returns-good conditions. But never seemed to actually try to determine what those conditions were. Same with food chains. We kept harvesting all levels, and mutual declines kept it all in some sort of balance.

Then, we protected some apex predators, they increased, and (oh my gawd) they ate more.

While it was pretty well established that the declines in adult salmon size were (30s-90s) fishery related there were a couple of exceptions. It was rather well recognized that the bigger the pink run (at least Fraser) the smaller the individual fish. Even then, we had the information that food out there wasn't limitless.

BS

Plant fish white man.

If only the fisheries scientists knew what you know. We could plant more fish, but those hatchery steelhead smolts cost a bit over $1.00 each to raise. When ocean survival was as high as 10%, a release of 100,000 smolts generated 10,000 adult steelhead. Not too bad at $10 per adult steelhead generated. With this year's smolt to adult return rate that appears to be around 0.01%, you're looking at $10,000 to generate one adult steelhead. Please send a cashier's check for $10 million, and you'll get your fish.

Sounds like f and w and these scientists need to do a little more research to figure out why these fish have such $hitty ocean survival rates.
Fish and wildlifes Job is to protect and preserve our natural resources, right?


With return rates like that, that's money well spent. Not

I think your math needs a little work there Salmo, the return is nowhere near 0.01%. Based on todays Jan 16th report, the hatcheries on the Nooksack, Stilly, Sky, and Snoqualmie rivers have returned a grand total of 112 fish to their respective collection facilities. The total plant on these rivers was 486,767.

That would be a return of .00023%.

A return of .01% from that years plant would have returned almost 5,000 fish, which in recent years would be a normal and acceptable return.

I think it's safe to say the Chambers Creek hatchery program is on the verge of complete collapse.

On a more important note, it really sucks the Skagit/Sauk fishery is closed...again.

Ike

So there Archimedes, based on the numbers I posted above, how many fish would you have to plant to have a viable recreational fishery on these rivers?

Ike

Sorry Ike, but it isn't Salmo that needs to check their arithmetic. You are off by a factor of 100. Where you say that a return rate of .01% would have returned 5000 fish, it actually would have returned only 50 fish. Why? Because .01% = .0001, so multiple roughly 500,000 smolts x .0001 and you get 50, not 5000.

Put another way, your calculation of the return rate is also off by a factor of 100:

112 returns divided by 486,767 releases = .00023 but to turn that into a percentage you multiple by 100. That makes your estimated return rate .023%, 2.3 times what Salmo suggested.

I barely graduated high school, and can safely say that Ikissmykiss needs to work on his math

SAD F'in state of affairs...Wild Steelhead are functionally extinct. Humans are pretty disgusting animals,on par w roaches, fleas and mosquitos. Cheers

Plant half a million smolt to get back 100.... J F C!

Lol! You're right, my math does need some work. I knew what I was trying to say.
Unfortunately, you can put the decimal point and percentage sign anywhere you want and this will still be an unprecedented piss poor return of hatchery (and possibly wild) steelhead to our rivers.

Ike

Steelhead evolved to require repeat spawners. I have seen data from AK and Kamchatka where the run is 50-90% repeats. I had thought, way back, that steelhead were just big trout and letting the whole population spawn once (works well for trout) would work for them. It doesn't. Somehow, we need to find ways to significantly increase the number of repeats along with all the other recovery actions.

A summerrun sighting!!!

Repeat females spawners can be important to population stability in at least part because those repeat spawners tend to have significantly more eggs than the first time they spawned. Have noted that as marine survival declines the portion of a returning steelhead population average age declines. See fewer fish with longer periods of marine rearing; the portion of say 3-salt fish decline. It may be the case that that elevated mortality continues in at least some degree the entire time the fish are at see.

Let's look what a repeat spawner rate of say 75% really means. It means that the productivity of the population is so low that it takes 4 spawners to produce one fish the next generation. What one typically sees as one moves to the north fringe of the steelhead range we see increasing rates of repeat spawners. Move beyond that extreme range of steelhead; say northern Alaska or eastern Kamchatka the O. mykiss no longer express the anadromous life history - only find resident rainbows.

From what we know of the biology of O. mykiss as the productivity of rivers have declined the resident life history likely becomes more important. I would argue that for most of the Puget Sound rivers the combination of freshwater habitat loss and poor marine survival has driven the over-all productivity to where continuing presences of O. mykiss maintaining the resident life history is essential. In effect the productivity of those waters has been driven below that which supports anadromy - much like those waters beyond the extremes of steelhead distribution.

To that point it should be obvious that a significant management paradigm is needed to encourage the expansion of the resident rainbow populations in our rivers. That change requires total bait bans (selective gear rules) to reduce incidental hooking impacts as well zero bag limits every where in the anadromous zones. That sort has been a difficult sell to both WDFW and the angling public.

Curt

It never occurred to me before, but now that you mention it, it makes a lot of sense that the repeat spawning life history does a lot to explain how hatchery steelhead programs are so much less productive than salmon programs. I have never heard of hatcheries releasing spawned steelhead to migrate back out to sea, potentially to return and spawn again. I wonder why that is? If you are trying to replenish a natural resource with artificial production, it stands to reason you'll get better outcomes if you mimic, to the greatest extent possible, a natural life history for the species in question. I would imagine an adult steelhead is much more likely to survive another year at sea than a smolt is to survive its first year at sea. By that rationale, repeat spawners probably find their way back to the gravel at a much higher rate than smolts spending their first year(s) at sea.

I don't think gillnetting is a leading cause of the decline, but I do wonder how many rebrights and repeat spawners die trying to migrate back and forth....

Plant fish instead of scientific Blah Blah.

Remove 10 guys pensions and plant fish with the coin.

Do it again and again until we get more back then just lame excuses.

Thanks for the addition Curt. Respawners are essential to species diversity and overall population productivity. However, a run made up of too many respawners, as Curt points out, indicates a very low productivity of new recruits in the population. High respawner rates at the northern margin of the species occurrence makes sense considering the overall lower productivity of rivers at those latitudes. Unfortunately it's become too easy to forget that WA and OR are, or were, the center for steelhead as a species, and the region where the species enjoyed its highest rates of productivity. Respawner rates of 12 or 13% are normal and indicative of a high rate of new recruits in each cohort of steelhead. Darn near makes my head explode to think of how much we actually had here and how very little is left.

And to WDFW X 1 = 0's credit as the resident fucktard whisperer, 10 pensions wouldn't produce the 112 steelhead that have returned to Puget Sound this year. It looks like love ain't the only thing money can't buy.

Salmo G

Proudly creating excuses, representing TPU's best interests, and planting less fish for a generation.

I have asked, at a number of the Pacific Coast Steelhead Management Meetings, for a single data set of wild steelhead where the R/S averaged greater than 1.0. Nobody from AK, BC, WA, OR, or CA could provide data from a single stock.

So, while as Curt says, further north repeats are a larger fraction, they re required everywhere. Some data showed that CA and OR, along with BC and AK, had fairly good numbers of repeats it was WA that had them in low single percentages. An artifact of fishing methods and locations?

" An artifact of fishing methods and locations?"

Yes, for the coast and Puget Sound, but more likely because of dams on the Columbia River system. With improved conservation measures in the late 70s and 80s, respawner rates hit that 12% and 13% in north PS rivers at least.

Summerun... AP... Ike...

J F C what's next? A Coley drive-by?

Welcome home, boyz!

Because I live in an area that in my life time has watched 20-30 pound steelhead go from MANY to FEW.

We all watched as Washington State now allows NO sport caught Native/Wild steelhead to be retained, UNLESS you are on a tribal river.

You can point finger at what has caused decline on Large Steelhead. The bottom line is sports probably should have been curtailed years before when they were and Tribal gill nets that in my area targeted early hatchery steelhead, UNTIL WDFW stopped many of the early plants of winter run steelhead. QIN now nets November until late, April/May, as we all know that is Native steelhead timing, and what I can't find is "how many spawned steelhead get caught in nets, on way to ocean....thus never get a chance to spawn a 2nd or more times.....

It'd be nice to see WDFW and tribe, set a date when NO FISHING is allowed when the majority of Native steelhead are in the systems....for 4 or 5 cycles of these fish. What is going on now....JUST ISN'T WORKING!!!

You can check out the Quinault bank guide thread on I-fish if you really want to read all the excuses.

We've been discussing that 2-salts seem to be the least present these days, which is bizarre on its face. It makes zero sense that fish that mature faster should be the least numerous contingent of an overall population. That said, the data seem to point to that conclusion. As I understand it (not all that well), the QIN programs use the biggest fish they can find. Some of those are likely repeat spawners, but most are likely just 3-4 salt fish on their first spawning return. Anyway, if fish with longer life histories are faring better than those with shorter ones, it might explain why the hatchery fish from the QIN programs are doing better than others (if still not very well). Another thing to consider is that the habitat in the Quinault and Queets drainages is the best habitat left in the state, and that might mean better returns per spawner invested...

Just came out today

Quinault Indian Nation
POST OFFICE BOX 189 » TAHOLAH, WASHINGTON 98587 • TELEPHONE (360) 276-0211
Humptulips River and Area 2C Commercial Fishing Regulation- 03 Winter Steelhead Season 2019*2020
January 14, 2020
This regulation replaces regulation #2 for the remaining January schedule in order to revise set-in and pull-out dates and times. The Humptulips River, from its mouth upstream to the railroad bridge at Newton, and Grays Harbor Area 2C, will be open for commercial gill net fishing for authorized Quinault Tribal fishers according to the following schedules.
The winter fishery will begin at 6:00 am on the opening day and end at 6:00 pm on the closing dayofeachweek. Openingandclosingdatesareasfollows;
Stat Wk 1
04 05
Set-in
Monday, Jan. 20 Monday., Jan. 27
Pull-out
Friday, Jan. 24 Friday, Jan. 31
Gear: Maximum mesh size for these openings will be 6 Vi inches.
**A1! Green Sturgeon must be released immediately when encountered.
White Sturgeon Size Retention Restriction: Only White Sturgeon that fall within the legal size slot limits may be retained, during authorized commercial treaty fishery openings in the Humptulips River and Grays Harbor Area 2C. The lega,! slot size limit for White Sturgeon is 38 to 54 inches (as measured with fish lying flat on its side, tip of snout to the fork of the tail fin).
White Sturgeon must be measured immediately upon removal from net. Sturgeon outside of the legal size slots are to be immediately released. The removal, or mutilation, of the head .or tail of any sturgeon prior to delivery is prohibited.
The total subsistence bag limit per authorized fishermen for the season is 30 white sturgeon.
Tagged Encounters: Sturgeon with spaghetti tags, located near the top fin, should be reported to Quinault Fisheries as to: 1) tag number and color, 2) date and location caught, 3) length, and 4)
Humptulips 2019-20 Winter Commercial Steelhead Reg.- 03-Jan 14, 2020

I
16-JPN-E0E0 13:06 From:360E76468E
Paee:EXE
whether the fish was retained or released.
Sales of Fish: A fishermen may only sell their catch to authorized Quinault Nation Buyers with the following exception: a fisherman may sell no more than a daily total of 3 salmon and steelhead (combined) directly to consumers.
Boating Regulations: In addition, all boats participating in off-reservation treaty fisheries shall carry personal flotation devices (PFDs) and visual distress signals, in the number and manner required by 33 CFR Part 175, as adopted by QBC Resolution No. 13-383(A)-92,
All other provisions of the QIN Grays Harbor Fall and Winter Off-Reservation Salmon/Steelhead Fishing General Regulations will be in effect.
According to the General Regulations, it is each fisherman's legal responsibility to see that alJ catch is reported on the daily fish ticket. This includes: commercial, incidental sales, take-home, and ceremonial catch.
All catch must be reported each day for each ground (to be reported immediately after the fish are brought to shore, before the fish house closes, or if the fish house has already closed, then it must be reported by 12:00 noon the next day the fish house is open.
FishTickets: FishticketsshallbeissuedatthetimeofpurchaseusingtheQuinaultElectronic Fish Ticket System (QEFTS) per QIN Business Committee Resolution No. 18-104-97. Two receipts will be printed at the time of the transaction, each signed by the fisher (seller) and the buyer and each keeping a copy for their records. The electronic fish ticket will record the person- that actually caught the fish under a valid QIN permit Or authorization; his or her ED number, and the ground location number, if applicable, or a notation of drift netting. If a person is signing a fish ticket as an assistant, helper, or hired fisherman, the electronic fish ticket shall also include the name and identification number of the fisher being assisted.
All catch must be reported each day for each ground (to be reported immediately after the fish are brought to shore, before the fish house closes, or if the fish house has already closed, then it must be reported by 12:00 noon the next day
&L
Quinault Policy Spokesman
Off-Res. Fish Committee
Humptulips 2019*20 Winter Commercial Steelhead Reg.* 03-Jan 14, 2020

That would be bizarre if 2-salts were absent every year and 3-salts were plentiful...but I would be far more worried about the likelihood that the 2 salts are absent because that entire age class died as juveniles, and this year's 3 salts were already a year old when that happened.

Fish on...

Todd

Back when the Pyramid Lake cutthroat vanished, I think the last spawning run was averaged 20 pounds. Great run!. Next year it averaged zero as all that was in the run was old fish.

The lack of 1 salt and 2 salt returns should be scary because they should be most abundant. Unless, for whatever reason, the older fish were what was spawned in recent years and they are creating a run of 3-salts.

Since we don't have a button, insert Like with sad face. Makes a lot of unfortunate sense.

[Bleeeeep!]! Where you getting this anti-hatchery propaganda little Hanker spanker? How's about put up, or shut up? I'm pro fish. That's hatchery fish and wild fish. I just explain differences between hatchery and wild fish when folks pose questions. If you interpret explanations as being anti hatchery fish, well then, I can't help it if you're stupid. And you probably can't either.

The fact is, we don't know that the Quinault get such good returns of hatchery steelhead because we don't know either the number of smolts released or an estimate of the number of adults that return. Without those numbers it's impossible to know if Quinault return rates are any better or worse than WDFW's. Since the Quinault is a coastal river, it probably gets a higher rate of return than Puget Sound rivers, but we have no idea if it is any better than other coastal rivers.

Basically why, if management is supposed to be Court-mandated "Co" we can't get the answers? It is possible that QIN is doing things "right" and if WDFW tried it we might have success.

Why won't WDFW ensure that all the numbers from egg takes to plants to escapements to returns to catch are rapidly and accurately reported and shared?

Hatchery release info on steelhead by QIN can be obtained from the coastwide salmon and steelhead release data base RMPC.org. This data base shows steelhead smolts releases by QIN into the Quinault basin averaged 253K during 2009-17. As far as I know there is no corresponding data base of harvest and escapements in the Quinalt system so survival rates can't be calculated.

I tried to go to the site you mentioned and was unable to reach it. Are there special permissions required or a slight difference in spelling? TIA.

No special permission required. Try google search on:
Regional Mark Processing Center.

FYI. I have from a reliable Quinault tribal guide that the runs are way down this year so far. 3 days last week on the Salmon in perfect conditions 5 fish. It should be peaking now. We would do that per person in a day in good conditions. Seems to be following what's going on coast wide. The season is far from over, but it's beginning to appear even their program is struggling to get numbers back. I wonder how their brood collection is going on the lake?

Have not. Been only once and nothing going on, but not in the tribal area and in marginal conditions. Hard to buck up when I've experienced double digit days, and hear of lots less this season. Onesies twosies ain't it, but most might think that's hot. Double digit hookups per person, at least for my group, used to be the norm. Seems not this year. If you have a report please share. It's no secret any more.

What we do know is that they use in Basin stock for Hatchery steelhead and it's been incredibly successful over the years. Their Hatchery personnel there really care and handpick a lot of the larger size fish for their brood. There are other rivers as well that this has been successful but some rivers not so successful. Is a whole nother can of worms of science then I'm sure Salmo can fill you in on with the disadvantages using native stock for Hatchery steelhead but in the end, I think we all just want to see more fish.

Yeah I forget the guys name up at the salmon river hatchery but he is very enthusiastic and loves his job. He always comes down and talks to folks and asks how everybody's doing. He sport fishes and gill nets and it is his livelihood so maybe that helps too.

Friend of mine is fishing the lower Quinault yesterday and today and is doing well. Just texted me this morning.

Thank you my friend, I got in. Lots of information there,it will take some time to digest!