rumor

just heard that the Chehalis and tribs to close sunday.. anyone else hear this?

I’ve heard the same. From angler reports I’m hearing there is a decent number of fish in the system. I wonder if it truly is lack of fish driving this.

Well I heard March 15th, around the middle, a couple of weeks earlier than the normal closing.


Not sure whats driving this early closure......been wondering every since the QIN shut their season down...........

Not just a rumor. It’s the REAL deal.

Dropping the e-reg tomorrow.

Hatchery escapement seems to be at least tracking with last year(in the skookumchuck the counts are 6 times what they were last year at this time), so what gives? It’s not exactly like the sport guys have been hammering on the fish with all the high water we’ve had.

Quins run the show!!! wdfw does what they are told!!

Wild escapement is 2k below needed escapement, Hatchery fish tracking well. So no wild impacts to spare. Sunday is last day to fish for entire basin, and tribs

On a second thought if wilds are not meeting objectives, why does TPU truck them above dam for release, their prodegy will never Help the system. They need to truck the clipped fish back down river and let wild go, above trap or in a lower river trib.

At this point, I trust the Q's fishery management and decisions far more then WDFW. WDFW has missed the mark so often, and has proven to be so corrupt that I don't even know how some of you can sit in a room with them. Pure corruption and deceit.

So they doing spawner surveys prespawn in blown out water. Weve seen alot more wild fish this year to this point than i can remember.

With steelhead, spawner surveys are to count redds. Even when there are fish in the stream, something less than 10% are seen. This is based on weekly surveys on known numbers of fish. So, they will count redds.

How does WDFW really know now what wild fish return is? It is only Feb 14 and a lot of wilds haven't even entered the rivers yet. They will be returning all the way into April. I know in one well known Chehalis trib that the wild return (and hatchery return) is more than at this time last season. This kind of smells like the QIN has something to do with this. Another possible explanation is that with the added higher hatchery plants in the Wynooche (winter steelhead) because of mitigation maybe the state wants more hatchery fish to get back for brood. There are plans also to plant more hatchery steelhead in the Satsop.

The point is that the quin's didn't get to fish with the high water, when all of the hatchery fish showed up, now they are on the states @ss about a rec closure.

We didn't get to fish in the high water either.

I highly doubt WdFw could get accurate redd counts with the spike of high water we have had most of the season so far.

Apparently because of the high water, the tribe lost net days. That’s why they are shutting down sport fishing. This isn’t some anti tribal BS either. That’s from the horses mouth. That is if WDFW officers are apart of the horse. So we don’t get foregone opportunity like they do? That’s about right.

Interesting that the Humptulips is not included in the closure. Is the Hump somehow getting a larger return of fish this year because Hump fish are able to amazingly avoid the bad ocean conditions. Is the QIN still netting the Hump? HHHMMMMM. This smells kind of "fishy".

With projected numbers like that, why tease us with a season?

It's either we have numbers to sustain a fishery or not.

WDFW won't know what this year's return of wild fish is until after they spawn and spawning survey data is analyzed. This closure is based on the pre-season runsize forecast for the wild run, a number they have known for awhile. The decision to close now is likely based on that fact, and well, of course whatever the Quinault Tribe told them to do.

If they knew the run was coming back that low why was the fishery even opened? They don't do in-season updates. Have to let QIN fish?

Thank you Salmo. If WDFW forecasted a low run of wild fish, maybe they could have imlemented selective gear rules (Barbless hooks, bait ban, no scent) and maybe a one hatchery fish limit from the beginning of the season. This could have lessened the impact on wild fish and allowed for a longer sport season. But the QIN could have put an end to it anyway. If we don't fish, you don't fish.

This is a double post but judging by reading this thread it might be helpful.


With the Steelhead closure scattered among several threads I thought a dose of reality might be helpful. When the QIN pulled for conservation the reported harvest number was 249 ( no break out on H/W ) which is not good. Then factor in that the QIN are non selective so their impacts on wild are substantial. Using the 2016 / 17 run reconstruction the 10 yr average for QIN is 583 W and 1376 H. The Rec impacts are 94 W and 5226 H . These are the average for 10 years with years up in number as well as down.

Recs on average harvest a greater portion of Steelhead than QIN ( remember Chehalis tribal are also in the states share but not in these averages ) because we are selective. So at the time of the QIN shutdown the 249 net harvest on average would have an impact of 99 W fish. As the river was mudville I doubt that Rec impacts were at 99 when the agency shut things down, in fact the 10 year average says Rec could fished normal seasons and still not equalled the QIN impacts on W.

Simply put this is not about conservation but rather about the QIN fisheries being non selective and Rec are selective. Just as in the Springer closure this is what it is about and frankly the agency just rolls over to the QIN on this issue. After due thought and consideration I think I am giving them to much credit. They are not even in the game!

Some interesting data can be mined from the hatchery escapement reports. Skookumchuck is acutally running closer to 7 times the number than last year. Last years showed no wild fish yet, but this years has 8 to the hatchery so far. The end of the season only showed 20 fish last year, so this years run looks to be better. The Wynochee is showing essentially the same number of wild fish at the dam as last year, 31 this year vs. 30 last year. The Humptulips is showing almost 40% more hatchery steelhead back this year as compared to last year at the same time. It will be interesting to see what happens, but at worst the high water appears to have allowed the wild fish to come back at normal numbers and to be allowing many more hatchery fish to come back. So, if the run was allowed to be open and the closure based off the fact that numbers appear to be coming in as predicted, what are they basing this one? And, since the rivers closed do not have an early hatchery season, if the plan was to close it regardless based off numbers, why did they open it at all. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Krijack, I was looking at the same numbers as you. A lot of things don't make sense with this decision. Not making sense is a general thought when it comes to WDFW and its decisions. The tribes have the power and they call the shots. So, this is the definition of "co-management". Really.
When the QIN suspended netting the Chehalis we all knew the writing was on the wall. It was just a matter of when WDFW would close it.

I see that the QIN is continuing to net the Humptulips. Their net schedule calls for 3 days /week through April 15. It is also still open for the recs. The Chehalis system is the only system closed to the recs on the whole coast. Doesn't it seem obvious that if the QIN was still netting the Chehalis sportfishing would still be open? I wish WDFW would just be honest and say "We had to close the Chehalis system to sportfishing because the tribe told us to". Just be honest. Please.

There are more than a few situations of "If you fish, we fish" regardless of allocation status. Sad, but them's what happens.

WDFW screws it up again!!!!!

Fishing has been great in this basin.

Plenty of fish.

Apparently the only ones that didn't know it was WDFW.

Bunch of clowns.

If they can't figure out how to make a mid-season assessment then perhaps they should all get their walking papers.

LOSERS!!!!!!!

Any one ever file for a public disclosure release from the department? I am not sure if I have time, but think it would be real interesting to see what happens when I ask for the following
1. Any internal or external notes, emails, correspondence or exchanged data between the tribes and the Department relating to the original season setting,or relating to any discussions between the State, department, or tribes about the setting of the original season.
.
2. Any internal or external notes, emails, correspondence or exchanged data between the department and other state agencies or officials, including the governors office relating to the original season setting, or relating to any discussions between the State, department, or tribes original season.

and 3. and 4. the same information relating to the the ongoing season and the agreements to cancel the ongoing seasons.

If given, that might give us a much better insight into what really is happening. My guess is that they would try to hide between the nation to nation cloak of secrecy. Who knows, it might give someone a chance to blow open that veil of secrecy. I am just not sure I have the time, money or expertise to follow through on what probably will be necessary to get that information.

You have heard of the three lawsuits dealing with NOF, right?

This is what was filed on the Spring Chinook Closure. Feel free to use it.

This is a request for public records. Please forward to me in electronic form any and all communication records of any kind and text on mobile devises that were created, transmitted or received by the Department, its staff, or the Fish & Wildlife Commission related to the Chehalis River Basin and tributaries closure to all fisheries on July 2 2019 outlined below in the press realease.

Reason for action: Streams and rivers where spring Chinook hold and stage through the summer are experiencing lower than normal stream flows. Spring Chinook hold and stage in the Chehalis River, South Fork Chehalis River, north and south forks of the Newaukum River and the Skookumchuck River. Low stream flows decrease holding and staging refuges and elevate vulnerability and pressure on these Chinook. Any encounters of spring Chinook could subject these fish to stress, injury, or death

WDFW makes their decisions before they know the facts.

Why don't they make mid season decisions on closures instead of making decisions based on facts from a month or 2 ago???
They manage our resources like a weatherman predicts the weather.
Toss your stupid computer models and look outside.

So pathetic.

Nothing to see here.....move along.

Collect our license money THEN shut things down.

Literally every trib full of fish!!!!!

What a bunch of pension sucking idiots.

You (the Royal You) does not want WDFW to make decisions based on known data. That would shut down all the marin mixed stock fisheries and move the fisheries into terminal areas where they could be updated based on in-season data.

WDG tried to develop ISU's for steelhead in the 70s and 80s and decided that they couldn't get accurate estimates. So they went with fixed rate fisheries. I won't argue that I think they were wrong, but it seemed to work.

Now, I suspect that they lack the staff to put onto that task (salmon are much, much, more important than trout) and I also suspect that the actual catch data is not available in real time. You would need net catch (daily) and sport catch (at least weekly) and it is now too expensive to get that.

Or common sense.

WDFW proudly selling WA sportsmen a license to nowhere.

...and yet we all have a 2019 license and will buy a 2020 license.

We sure are some tough talkers on this board. Pretty tall too, as we stand on our soap boxes.

Hey I know, let's form a group circle and come up with more ideas on how we can screw each other over on the river.

Let's restrict access to our own rivers.
Let's restrict fishing from our own boats, as my way of fishing is less harmful to the wonderful fish than yours
Let's restrict guiding and guides.
Let's implement gear restrictions
Let's implement bait bans
Let's implement fish holding practices
Let's shutdown state run hatcheries and broodstock programs
Let's implement tribal run hatcheries and broodstock programs on all rivers because that is better.

Let's just bend each other over and have at it...all while the tribes and WDFW sit back, watch, and laugh.

Or pick up the phone and call them idiots.

(360)249-4628

Let them know how you feel bent over.

A 360 number.

Go figure. All the 206 numbers are in use for homelessness and gun control issues.