Washington Coast Steelhead town hall 5pm.

Get on wdfw website and get registered for this virtual town hall as they’ll not only be discussing not fishing natives but ending the season on December 1st for hatchery fish as well. Special thanks to the turds who made sure fighting for hatchery fish was a possibility. Today 5pm, be there or lose a fish.

I say they will go with option 4 cause they fkced things up so bad ..

they should do a license buy back

They need to go back to wild steelhead retention, ever since they closed it it’s gone to ***t & they know it. Now they can’t handle 2,000 hatchery fish coming back to the hatchery before they hit the nets. What’s next? Asking anglers to pay retroactive fees for lost opportunity? Everything hit the fan when they eliminated wild harvest... look at the data(& regulations).

Are you fuking dense or something? What part of those wild escapement numbers don't you understand? The Quillayute is marginally holding on, while the smaller tribs they didn't talk about like goodman, mosquito and the dickey have tanked.
Under escapement up and down the whole coast with only the hoh and Quinault barely making the numbers, and a scant 3k fish over in the Quillayute won't make up for all the anglers coming from across the state to pound on it....
Bringing their covid and flat brimmed hats to forks and fuking with a town in ways it, and most of the west end isn't prepared to deal with.

Thought from last nights meeting and a quick review..basically painted a very bleak picture for the next couple years of steelhead.

Main point were that all but 3 of our major watersheds are all under escapement this year..
*Chehalis is 2000 wild steelhead under
*willipa is 500 under
* queets/clearwater 650 under
*hoko is 500 (they have ZERO fish at the hatchery now!!)
Humptulips is 600 under as well!

Hoh and upper Quinault are like 300 above, but I don't feel that's enough to allow a fishery, IMO.
and the Quillayute system is 3300 fish over...which isn't really that much, certain NOT a good year out there, but they have a lot more wiggle room than any of the other coastal streams.

With that being said, they gave us 4 options
1. early closure (like Feb 15th) -this way they could max efforts on hatchery fish before the wild component really shows up.
2. Quillayute only - since this is the only system above escapement more than 10%, open it, and only it for fishing, rest of the coast is closed
3. Gear/harvest restrictions - shifting rules coast wide to no bait, barbless, and close the retention of all trout under adult steelhead size (to protect future populations) and *my fav* close fishing from a floating device on several streams.
#4. Close all coastal streams.

Obvious 1 only shifts out pressure, still has bait and some higher hooking mortality, and disproportionately effects the early part of the wild run.
2 has obvious issues because with the Quillayute system only being over by 3k, it most likely won't support the 80% western washington fisherman flocking to it to recreate, not to mention the large influx of GUIDES that would be there as well.
3 does a good job of evening out pressure and still allowing access, lowers hooking mortality and effectively closes down certain sections of river not fishable on foot...BUT it doesn't take into account how some of the streams like the Chehalis are dangerously under levels and we don't need to be pounding on stocks that are ALREADY under escapement and HAVE BEEN the majority of the last ten years!
#4...well this one is obvious, DEFINITELY the smartest move, but also definitely the one we will get the least public...or guide (shake my goddamn head) for!

So I feel that a heavily modified #3 Should come down the line, closing rivers like the Chehalis and some of its tribs not doing so well, the willipa bay streams, queets/clearwater, and shifting the ones closer to the escapement goal to gear restrictions and on smaller tribs no floating devices.

It's NOT good, and netting has about 1% to do with it, our overwhelming data shows HUGE losses of juvenile steelhead as they outmigrate along the coast...that couple with incredibly poor ocean conditions the last 3 years and it start to make sense... reading between those lines I'll remind you that we still have 3 brood cycles out there maturing that have had to deal with those poor conditions their whole lives, so I would guess the outlook for 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 aren't going to look much better. Ocean conditions have improved over the last year but we don't know how long that will last before the PDO(pacific decilosilation) becomes an issue again. With that being said a coastal closure would most likely mean a closure of tribal fishing as well (me personally I'm about 95% confident that would happen honestly)

** I'd like to distance myself from reefskunks comment**


Lol, ya right, I aint no yellow belly like that, what you said is spot on and correct, though I can imagine the amount of support from the guides... local guys get it but the part timers coming out there, the cadys, the lpj's, the chris ashley's ..
None of those tools will get it and will have a fit

Might be a good season to employ my "hookless" flies and just work on learning to cast left handed and making cack-handed casts.

The least they could do is let us fish the hatchery runs, makes the most sense.

Make anglers choose the the one river they are allowed to fish.

One for the whole winter and one for the whole summer.
Period.
Or
Make anglers choose one county to fish.

Pick a unit bitches.......................Just like Idaho just did with the non-resident deer hunting.

11/25/2020

My take:

1. 1.5 hours of WDFW talking about things most sportsmen already know.

2. After 8 months of C-19 closing of WDFW offices and I expected a plan, nope 4 options. Need to have a strong WDFW to make decisions to protect the wild fish.

My suggestions: Won't be popular

1. 5 year plan....... No fishing from boats on tributaries. Boat only used to get from point A to point B....

2. Cut off points on all tributaries, no fishing above these dead lines.

3. Maybe limit the days of the week......Wednesday - Saturday, rivers open....Sunday - Tuesday rivers closed.

I'm sure there are others but I wanta fish........

Oh to WDFW personnel that use Wild steelhead for spawning, at least put the males back in the river they came from.......yea, some will probably die BUT some might live to return again, for sure when they are surplused, "they die"

On the Wynoochee River, NO wild steelhead should ever be hauled from the trap and placed in the lake..........put all the hatchery ones you want up there.

Something that would help fish which are in the shitter across the board and alleviate pressure from the 206/253 guide crowd..
BE REMINDED that a bit of basic math on guide numbers, # of clients, daily catch average shows that this COMMERCIAL component of our fisheries may routinely encounter up to 70% of the fish needed for escapement (cite greg springer)

But the bigger deal may be for local residents...since there is ZERO advanced medical care facilities anywhere around there and guides have, for the most part, thumbed their nose at the guidelines and any idea of social distancing or coming to town prepared so they don't have to patron local shops for supplies while they *happen to be* asymptomatic.

Recreational fisherman alone are going to be flocking there more this year if we have a season just because of the forecast.. that will surely account for its own problems

If sport fishing is even a meaningful part of the problem (which I doubt), why are the drainages that get hammered THE MOST by guiding the only ones forecast to make escapement? Doesn't seem like anglers are largely responsible to me, but it does seem like extinction is inevitable at this point, so why not just let us flail away to the bitter end?

Option 5: Let us fish until they're gone. I guarantee it won't be a C&R encounter that kills the last one, no matter what they decide. A gillnet, a cormorant, or a "blob" is FAR more likely to deal that blow.

I would like to know why they kept it open for C&K up until a few years ago and now that it went C&R the numbers got worse. I have a feeling the natives just netted harder when they saw increased fish come back that sporties didn’t take because of C&R. As hard as it is to take for some on a C&R fishery it might of kept other factors in check. I really liked when it went to 5 fish a year limit. I didn’t take any but it was fun chasing the big one. Ever since it went C&R, no bait, single hook s*** I said screw it, not even worth the time. I want that fishery back! What were the numbers like when it was 30 fish per season? I understand the guiding pressure is high but what a load of [Bleeeeep!] regulations now. You can’t even fart without somebody taking a picture.

In the town hall WDFW says they are co-managers with the tribes and they don’t manage tribes. As much as I care I think wdfw should needs to allow as much kill as the tribes do. Why be goody 2 shoes when you shouldn’t? Just because we release all fish and use completely stupid methods to angle doesn’t mean the tribes are out there doing the same. The tribes don’t give a [Bleeeeep!] what we do they are out the for themselves, it sounds like were just out there to help them.

Here's what we've come to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LZo9ugJTWQ

figure it's about time to stick a fork in things. i don't know how anyone can consider themselves a serious steelhead fisherman any more, it's just fighting over scraps at this point. getting up early to play bumper boats and deal with crowds to maybe have a shot at a fish just isn't worth it to me any more. especially with the "new generation" of hyper-aggressive anglers chasing youtube glory.

i busted one of my favorite rods 4 years ago. i still haven't replaced it...that's saying something. i seem to end up spending most of my time outdoors with a rifle or shotgun in my hands than a rod these days. i've just reached the point where the crappy hunting in this state is more enjoyable than the crappy fishing.

Word on the street is that #3 will happen soon. Look for the WDFW email soon.

IMO, if steelhead fishing from a boat is going to be that big of an impact to the fishery, it's time to just close it all down - statewide.

Nope.

If this goes through it will mean NO FISHING from a boat, moving or anchored.

Can you gillnet from a boat? Asking for a friend...

I'm fine with no fishing from a boat (with the exception that the wadeable runs will be clogged with spey dudes who don't move their fvkin' feet). It'll make the side drifting, bead "fly" guides learn how to earn their fish. I like a good plug takedown as much as the next guy, but I'd rather grind it out old school than not fish at all,

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12/03/2020




Chest Waders and a looooong rod, you'll be good to go !!!!!!!!


Be safe, everyone................

Generally steelhead runs closely follow silver runs in numbers. The central coast greatly exceeded forecasts for both hatchery and wilds. I’m an optimist.

The boat thing has been discussed here many time and it generally ends with a discussion of the Deschutes with regards to the massive success of rebound of the local wild stocks. I’m a fan. This creates refuge areas dispersed throughout the entire drainage and not only the headend of the water shed. Probably implemented in a drainage by drainage basis. No bait hurts but I’ll get over it. Todd’s sales will skyrocket.

If the management objective is to reduce gear encounters with steelhead, then prohibiting fishing from boats makes sense. I think I've read that something like 70% of steelhead are caught by anglers fishing with guides who fish from boats. So a lot fewer steelhead are going to be hooked under this kind of regulation. Makes it tough for guides though. I wonder how guides will respond? Switch to walk-and-wade guiding, or get a non-resident OR guide license?

Hey Paker, just because fishing from a boat with a guide is the only way you can catch a fish doesn't make your chosen method an all or nothing proposition.

Last fisherman standing on the rock fishing for that very last steelhead, please turn out the lights when you leave.

Note: If it's a fly flinger, they won't actually hook or catch that last steelhead, but will be bitching about how everyone destroyed the wild steelhead as they continue to flog the water, ascot waving in the breeze....

Double Note: This will only apply to the coastal rivers, whatever those may be. As for the rest of you boat owners, feel free to continue to fish out of boat for your depressed runs of wild steelhead.

Carry on.

What rivers will be affected by the boat law?

In managing, there is a number of animals that can be killed/caught. As the number of humans change them increases, that number gets taken faster.

First big sport fishery I was involved in managing was the '80 Lake WA sockeye. It was open for weeks and finally died a natural death as interest waned and fish moved into streams to spawn. Now, because of increased "technology" that same fishery lasts days.

If you want a months-long steelhead fishery then catch per day has got to be low. You can limit the number of anglers or you can limit their success or limit their access to fish. Managers are in a no-win situation because somebody's favorite means of fishing will be affected.

Look at how ell the up-river recs are treated because we worship marine mixed-stock fisheries for salmon. They've seen this for decades.

Does anyone know what exact areas wdfw meant by no fishing from a floating device?

My guess is that it would be for all the coastal streams.

There aren't many of them if you break it down. Quinault, Queets, Hoh, Bogachiel, Calawah, Quillayute, Sol Duc. The other streams are too small to fish from a floating device.

The status quo will not sustain coastal steelhead stocks. It's evident that WDFW cannot effectively manage the resource and the only likely course of action that will elicit change will be through the courts. Let's hope citizens and advocacy groups can collaborate and present a unified voice and legal challenge. It appears to be the only hope.

Climbing gear and inflatable tree houses are the new wave of tapping the last frontier steelheading!!!!!! I don't need no stinking boat....

In the last 5 years why has it gone from wild retention no gear rules to possibly being shutdown is what I don’t get. I understand the no wild retention & gear rules were meant to curb declining numbers but now it’s come to closing it down. Obvioulsy those rules didn’t work as intended.

That's what usually happens when action is taken too late and it's combined with the other thousand cuts.

I believe that after close to 30 years of "recovery management" that most of the listed Chinook and steelhead head stocks in WA are at lower levels than when listed, as are the SRKWs. There are two possibilities. Either we have not done enough in the last 30 years of they animals are headed to extinction despite our efforts.

Seems that "Recovery" has become like lots of kid's sports; we give participation trophies and really don't care about the results.

There's a lotta' meat to chew on in those two short paragraphs C'man. We've spent over a billion state dollars and a lot more federal dollars on habitat improvement since the ESA listings. As if dollars spent somehow translates into species recovery. We pat ourselves on the back for all those habitat improvement and fish passage restorations achieved, which despite the cost, is barely a drop in the bucket in contrast to the magnitude of habitat degradation we did, and amazingly (to me) still do. While at NMFS I had the astonishing (again, to me) conversation with managers who did not perceive any issue with using the number of ESA Section 7 consultations completed as a yardstick to measure progress toward recovery, instead of, as I proposed, the delta change in abundance (increase in numbers of listed fish in listed populations). Ergo, completed consultations = participation trophies in the form of "atta' boys (and girls)" and annual bonuses and awards and even promotions.

I'd like to think it's as simple as having not done enough (we haven't) to reverse declining trends, but my stronger feeling is that we have long since set the stage that governs productivity so that the declines we have and are presently witnessing are mostly beyond our control. I think a long-lived species like the SRKWs really drives that home, at least for me. I think we've made perturbations to the ocean since WWII that are greater than we have the capacity to counter.

I don't completely agree that we don't have the capacity to counter. We don't have the will because, at its root, the problem is way too many people (world-wide), wasteful consumption, and the like. Having said that, we are really close, though, where the decisions will have been set in concrete (at least in human terms) and the resources just go away.

I also think we have the ability to counter. Read the Boldt decision. Old Boldt was most concerned about conservation. And we have failed miserably since then. We have the ability to counter through an advisory process or through the courts, but WDFW doesn't have the will, and especially A.G. Ferguson.

Sorry Jaek. Looks like it's time for you to buy the Oregon license.

Much whining and moaning when no bait/no boat was first instituted.
Fishermen adapted and the fishery improved.
Step-casting heartily encouraged.

At the end of the day, it's the thing to do.

WORD!

Right up there with, "If you don't kill them, they WILL spawn."

So what happens to the disabled fishermen and women who bought boats to fish and cannot stand on the bank and fish????

Well now I think DW needs to see that post as I think he might want to nicely explain why you are wrong.

Boat to the left is my 17' jet boat......I sit 95% of the time in the boat, last 3-4 years my age, 80, and now a problem with balance. It is a struggle for me to move about my house. I CAN NOT CLIMB DOWN RIVER BANKS ANY MORE, I need a wading pole in the summer time, and can't wade in very deep water......winter steelhead, from the bank, is not something I can even think about doing, water flow just to much....those that know me, know that just to be on the river "helps keep me alive".

I even have a cane to get from my seat, in the jet boat, to get something out of storage, in the front of the boat......

Sunday, 12/13/2020 will be the last day I can enjoy something I've done for 75 years. Oh I'll fish again but with the decisions WDFW makes, probably not until August/September in the Chehalis River for Coho jacks and then adult Coho.

I'd give quite a bit to have the abilities I had just 5-6 years ago.....I think WDFW assumed everyone that fishes, should be able to jump out of a boat, go to the river bank and fish from there......many older adults are in for lots of boring, stay at home....because of this no fishing from a boat!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Be Safe.......Go Hawks !!!!

I am a veteran. Served overseas three years of my life.

I have the scars to show my past was real.

Will the state make greater public access to the river banks?

There was a time when WDG had the "Citizen's Wildlife Heritage" program, initially funded by the Region 6 Fish Bio. The idea was to get access to lands for hunting and fishing. Before that, there was effort by steelhead anglers to get bank access and it included putting in stiles so that anglers could cross private land to access streams. Wonder what happened to those programs?