new fly line..

so i have decided im going to put new line on the Hardy... i dont know much about fly lines except that i have a "rocket taper" on my Cortland... this line will be used on my Sage 7100 RP 10' 7#...

so how should i go about this? Shooting Head? Rocket Taper?

also what brand, Rio, Cortland +444, SA?

id like to use it for everything, but id also like it to cast easy and not be difficult to handle and deal with...

thoughts from the pros?

thanks, Nate...

Are you looking for floating or sinking line????? It all depends on what your going to be using it for.

Google.

thats what i dont know... what should i do for all around? i have sink tips with loop systems that i could add if i want i suppose... i also have a spare spool that i could put a sink tip on and the other a floating line..

id like to use it for Cutts, Trout in lakes, Salmon (not near as much)... i figured i could get away with using weighted flies if i didnt get the sink tip.. but obviously it wont work in deeper rivers, so i may just get 2 lines... i just dont want to spend a bunch of money on something i dont know a ton about...

my dads not here anymore, which is why im asking you guys... all he did was fly fished, so im trying to atleast be half the well rounded angler he was...

and this is why i asked here...

http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?subject=2107

this just confused the sh!t out of me... so if i get a line for trout in large lakes and rivers, its a 6# line, but my rod is a 7# (all 3 of them), so can i even put the 6# on a 7? will it work correctly? will a 7# line not cast smaller flys for trout?

One line, one rod and one Google seach won't cover it all.

If you're lining a Sage RP 7100, you have a fast action 7 wt rod. That rod will throw a lot of things, but if it were me I'd stick mainly to 7 wt lines, maybe an 8 for certain things. If you want to do "everything" with one line, you're screwed. It doesn't work that way.

How many spools do you have for the Hardy? And which model and size Hardy? If you only have one spool, then more than one line is kinda' pointless.

That rod is a good length and line weight for summer and fall steelheading. It's a bit heavy and overkill for SRC and trout fishing in lakes IMO, but it would certainly work. You can maximize the versatility of the rod with a Versa-tip line. Several brands offer multi-tip lines. They usually come with a floating, intermediate (slow sinking), fast sinking, and extra-fast sinking tip, 15' in length. I've never bought one, but I've been making my own since 1977.

As for brand, most of them are good, and you don't need the most expensive top-of-the-line line to have good results. Actually, Orvis is having a sale on some good Wonderlines right now ($29 for $65 lines) via mail order and Web. I just bought 3 6 wts, and I've bought others when they were on sale too.

If you don't know your Rocket Taper from a shooting head, I suggest you start with a WF7F (weight forward 7 floating) line or a 7 wt multi-tip, but those run well over $100 (probably why I still make my own).

Oh, and put some backing on the reel under the fly line (usually 20# dacron). How much depends on the size of the reel spool and of the fly line.

Good luck. It sorta' looks like you might need it.

Sg

its a Hardy Marquis 7#... i have 2 spools for it.. i also have a Cortland 7# that came with my GSH 1000 Cortland 9' that my dad bought me when i was about 15 years old or so... i also have another 7100 RP thats a 9' rod.. like i said all my dad did was fly fished (since the late 80s to his death in 05), and only fished for Steelhead really... i know all about backing, roll casting, i however cant really cast regularly that well, and i think it may be due to the age of the line....because about 10 years ago, i could cast that rod rather well... not so much anymore... and im by far from even really being a "intermediate" fly caster, but what the hell, always fun to try new things and get better at them...

i just never got into it when he was around... and i know i have a long road ahead of me.. but i would like to start out on the right track, to help with any other bumps in the road that i may encounter...

Multiple google searches how about???

Redhook,

OK, a few more things. The Sage 7100 RP means that it is a 7 wt rod and 10' long. If it were 9' long it would be called a 790 RP.

When you say " . . . a Cortland 7# . . .", what do you mean? Is this a line, as in 7 wt (not 7# cuz it isn't seven pounds), or a model of Cortland reel? If it's a line, do you have any clue what wt (weight) or type it is? If not, take it to a fly shop and ask; that's likely the best way to find out.

If you have two spools for the Marquis, I'd put a WF7F Cortland 444 peach floating line on one spool. It's a classic and casts and handles real well. Depending on what you plan to fish for and where should determine what line to put on the second spool. I make or buy a multi-tip and have a bunch of sink tips to maximize the versatility of the rod.

Someone who knows all about backing and roll casting wouldn't likely use both words in the same sentence, just to offer you a clue about how clueless you may be. I cast lines that are over 30 years old just fine, so it's not likely that the 10 year age of your line is the cause of your casting. It's more likely you're just a [Bleeeeep!] caster. Don't worry, most people are.

Word of advice: some guys buy a $600 fly rod and wonder why they cast like chit. They would be miles ahead buying a $100 rod and spending $400 on casting lessons, but most won't.

Sg

Smart advise.

Redhook,

Read what Salmo g. wrote.
Then, read it again.
Then do exactly what he just said without trying to add yer smarts to it.

His suggestions for lines and lessons are spot on.

If you choose to respond to anything or anyone else on this thread, you're likely going backwards. Now would be the time to listen, shut up, and execute the plan that has been given to you.

-AP

SG and AP, well said in each case.

Redhook, not knowing what I don't know makes me look stupid on a regular basis, so I feel your pain. How does the saying go, "better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt?" Take it slow, glean a few bits of knowledge from those that you can, and it will mostly start to make sense after a bit more homework.

In defense of those that haven't been immersed in this fly business for decades, myself included, all of this jargon and inconsistency between brands, manufacturers, and cliques is pretty confounding to try and figure out from a beginners perspective.

Take "spey" lines for example. How about rod weights and action in relation to intended application? How about fly design concepts for fly fishing as a whole, let alone "traditional" or personal preferences on "style." If you haven't tried to boil these things down to a beginners level and/or teach someone about them, I would recommend it. It quickly becomes apparent how foreign most of this crap is even for folks that generally get fishing.

Best advice I can give you right there. The act of teaching someone something brings out all of the areas you aren't clear on or don't know. This stuff isn't going to make sense over night.

AP and Salmo bring up great points as well. They have years of experience and if they are willing to share it, LISTEN. That's it. If you don't agree, keep it to yourself and figure it out the hard way. I can honestly say I have learned a lot about the sport from both of these individuals from their posts. Rarely have I disagreed with what they have suggested and more often than not, it has saved me a lot of time making the mistakes on my own.

well, needless to say, some of the responses pissed me off... so today, i decided to cast in the yard for a minute with 1 line on the spool that was on the Hardy...

Salmo, i messed up, its an #8/9 Marquis, not a # 7, but that probably doesnt matter much...

i tried different grip positions, and made sure not to snap my wrist...

i got about 60-80 feet out... not good by any means, but better than i was doing with another line last season...

i think i will get a versi tip for the spare spool, and use the bright orange line on the hardy for floating... i still have the peach rocket taper line on the Cortland, and it looks fine, no cracks, kinks, nothing... but i know for a fact its over 15 years old and is likely the +333 line, and from what ive heard, isnt very good line...

and just to get things straight, i didnt buy these rods, i got them because my dad dropped dead on Christmas Eve... cool present huh?

he was a phenomenal caster, but like i said, i never really got into it when he was around, so i missed out...

im going to take the 7100 to the lake tommorow, and try casting from a boat... ill let you know if i catch anything...

i dont have the money, or time to take classes right now, its just not an option... so, ill probably end up just giving up and putting the rods in the closet for another 10 years.... thanks for the help....

Besides a few of the standard PP barbs, people here are actually trying to help you.

Before you get entirely discouraged, take advantage of all the FREE lessons that exist. I just went to a "spey clave" a couple weeks ago and learned a lot. Something about human nature makes people actually WANT to teach other people things. I got to cast some rods and learned that the line on my spey rod is pretty "wrong". I got to try a different line on the rod and it was a different creature entirely.

Did your dad have any fishing buddies that you still know? I almost guarantee they would be honored for you to ask for casting help. 1 hour with the right individual will make your casting SO much better. Plus, much like golf, you won't have to undo all the bad habits that you're bound to create.

Redhook,

Re: casting lessons. The Washington Fly Fishing Club offers lessons one evening a week at Green Lake (Seattle) around this time of year. If that's not close, look into whatever club is near you - ask at fly shops. Most offer fly casting and fly tying classes, usually for cheap.

8/9 Marquis is nice, and the 7 is a bit small. I have a 7 and a 9/10. I use the 9/10 on an 8100 RP.

You may have gotten 60-80' feet out, but dollars to doughnuts you didn't cast 80' of fly line. A 444 Peach is not a 333; otherwise it wouldn't be a 444. Some people like the 333 lines. I don't. There are better options in that price range, like the Orvis sale I posted about above. As I said, I've got a 444 that's 30 years old, and it casts just fine.

Sorry about the loss of your dad. That sucks and shows that life ain't fair some times. Honor his memory and learn to use the gear he left you. Like an angler. Not a cracker.

Sg

no he didnt... he was extremely secretive about his fishing... he wouldnt even help me out with how to get to his spots... his response was always (figure it out yourself, i did).... and i did... he also would never come to the Green with me, or any where that had ANYONE near by... he would however tell my what to use, then, said figure it out, you will, i did....

my dad was also extremely sensitive about his rods and gear... he wouldnt let me take the Sages anywhere, ever... not because i was bad with my gear, but because they were his, not mine... and i respected that... towards the end of him being here however, he would kick me one of the Fenwicks when something happend to my stuff...but they were still his, and he made me remember that....

when i first started fishing for Cutts when i was under 10, i stole one of his flies he tied, actually, i stole about 10 of them... i thought i was being like him... but actually, it pissed him off... for one, i stole from him, and didnt ask... and second, dragging a Royal Coachman around with no weight on it in a paddle boat on a spinning rod ISNT fly fishing lol.... but i still kept doing it... then i brought home the 28 incher, and he bought me that Cortland GSH 1000 i said i had...

he took me to a spot that i regularly fished on a river near my cabin, and i couldnt cast, so he showed me how to roll cast... i caught a 2 pound rainbow that day, will never forget it....

he used to take me to 2 bit on the Sky alot too, but he would be casting all over the place, all the way across the river like it was nothing, catching fish, and here i am not being able to figure it out... rod quality? maybe... lack of skill? most deffinately...

so i gave up....

and didnt touch a fly rod for close to 15 years.... casting the Sage is hands down easier than casting the Cortland, could be due to the action tho, i have no clue of how fly rods operate in that aspect....

i just dont see the point of letting rods and stuff of that caliber sitting in the closet doing nothing for god knows how long... they were built to be used...

using his gear, his flies, and trying to do what he did and failing gets quite disturbing and hurts me...

just typing that last line, i had to stop and wipe my eyes, thats how much it hurts me.... noone knows anything about me, anything that ive dealt with, anything thats been taken from me....

so yes, it bothers me... if thats bad, sue me, i will message my name and address to send the papers....

people need to look past the phuckin way i type, and see the bigger picture of why im even on these forums.... because if my dad was still here, i wouldnt be...

Was that 28" cutt a Searun?

yes, and was the largest one ive caught to this date, and will likely never be replicated, or exceeded... 5 pounds all day long...

Redhook,

I think you posted that you're 33 years old. If so, you should start acting more like an adult than a child, unless you're developmentally retarded.

Guess what, 28" is larger than the state record SRC. And 5 # is skinny for a 28" SRC. I'm guessing you estimate (badly) rather than measure fish length and casting distance. No offense, but you're dad didn't cast all the way across the Sky at 2 bit unless your dad is Steve Rajeff (world champion many times over). Just to give you a clue. BTW, you can post anything you can type, but you're gonna' FAIL badly if you try to BS me about fly fishing and salmonids. These are things I know a bit about.

It makes sense that your dad wouldn't let you touch his gear if you're "bad with gear." Sage and Fenwick and Marquis are good stuff and shouldn't be in the hands of a klutz. So maybe putting it back in the closet for another 10 or 15 years would be the best option.

Uh, who's to say your failing? Don't be such a cry baby. Can you make 50 out of 50 basketball shots from the foul line? I ask because my daughter when she was in grade school complained that she couldn't make a basket. I asked her how many times she tried. She didn't know (it wasn't many). I told her to make 50 shots and keep track of how many she made. Then make 50 shots the next day, etc., etc. Since she was a musician she understood the concept of practice and training. In a few weeks she was making a lot of shots.

If you want to learn to fly cast, first, more important than practice, is training. You FIRST need a basic lesson or two. Then you need to practice what you're instructed in those lessons 15 minutes a day, 4 or 5 times a week, or 7, and then get a couple more lessons. I can have anybody who isn't a natural born klutz casting decently in a month. Like most thing in life, it ain't that hard, but it takes some instruction and practice. So quit sniveling about being disturbed and failing, hell you haven't even tried yet. So if you get the "bigger picture" of my posts, you'll understand that while the loss of your dad was sad, he left you things that apparently meant something to him. You'd honor him by learning to use it competently. That is quite a bit different than trying it on your own once or twice and then being upset that you didn't get it. Almost nobody does. But almost anybody can by doing what I described above.

Sg

Amen.

Amen again.

im not BSing Salmo, even WhiteDog himself has seen a 28 inch Cutthroat come out of the canal... ask him...

it was dead on at 28 laying flat on our porch next to a Stanley tape...

records, i dont care about records... records get broken, and the last thing i cared about when i caught that fish was the record...

you can believe me or not, i really dont care... but like i said, ask WD, it may surprise you...

also, i said im NOT bad with my gear... i have a Lamiglas S Glass from the late 60s early 70s that i use as my Koke rod... everythign i have is always cleaned, and properly taken care of... the point of him doing that, was they are HIS, and i needed to get my own... work for it, pay for it, own it... which i did quite a bit... and, is one of the best lessons he ever taught me...

i fully understand you are a fisheries biologist, and one hell of a fly fisherman, and fisherman in general... but im not a dickweed that lies about what i catch... ever... so now, i basically take pictures of everything i catch... because without them, its pointless... as just like right now is showing....

so, like i said, ill bring the floating line, and run lead eyed flies to get down... might even cast for bass, which is something i dont even fish for either, but have flies that will work most likely... ill report about it when i get back... with pictures, if i do any good...

RH, I think your period (.) button is stuck.

Salmo, your no better than anyone else. The rod and reel you use should make no difference. I have taken up fly fishing recently, its a blast and im hooked. However I have fished gear with fly fisherman who respect me, not because of another good method i choose (gear), but because i am fishing, Im putting native fish back, and not leaving my trash on the river. Thats all we can ask for really?

Elitist do more harm to the sport than good. Sure they give their money to the CCA and other conservation efforts; which is a good thing that I have no problem with, but come on, thats not enough. We need to pass down methods of conservation, and our knowledge about fishing and sportsmanship. Elitist push people away and make them feel stupid, just because they didnt get it as fast as someone else doesnt mean they are stupid...

I really feel that this will be met with some harsh comments, but look at yourself first....salmosalar, how dare you? Who are you to tell someone they cant fly fish.

Im thankful for the person teaching me. He has a lot of patients for a guy who needs a lot of practice like me. Stop pushing people away, give them a rod (fly, spinning, bait...whatever) and watch them go to town. Teach them to conserve, keep the banks clear of trash and have fun doing it.

Get over yourselves.

Redhook, keep going! Do your dad justice and catch some fish, and dont be afraid of the losers who think they are better because they work in the fisheries department or whatever.

The more I fish, the more i find its not that hard, throw something at them that looks like food, they will probably eat it.

Redhook,

I'm not saying you lied, but a 28" SRC is larger than the state record, and at 5# would be a very skinny trout. That's all. If you insist your fish was 28" and 5#, well that's on you.

I guess I thought you said somewhere you were bad at caring for gear. If not, that's super, because you've got some good stuff that was your dad's. I hope you take care of it.

Jgreen,

Congratulations on taking up fly fishing. A lot of people find it's great fun.

I don't believe I've ever said I was better than anyone else. More knowledgeable about some things, sure. Maybe my posts have been hard for some to understand. I think I've made a fair effort to help Redhook, while at the same time telling him to not try and BS me. Ya' see, it works like this: I'm more inclined to want to help people who appear to appreciate the assistance than people who don't. Very simple.

I agree that the gear one uses makes no difference - to a point. There is some real junk around, especially some old stuff. But the industry is extremely competitive these days, and most gear is very serviceable at all but the very lowest price points.

Sg

I'll just say this in regards to a 28" searun cutt. If you did indeed catch a cutt of that size, it was likely a steelhead / searun hybrid.
As far as it being 5 lbs, a fish that length would likely be in the 7 to 8 lb range unless it had spawned recently.
5 lbs at that length would be a real thin, snaky looking fish.
I've fished for them since the 60's. The largest I've ever been fortunate enough to witness was a 24" specimen. A fish of a lifetime and one I wish I'd had the enjoyment to caught myself.
It takes a long time for searuns to get big, so any searun cutt over 20" is a true trophy in my book.

i dont have a problem finding a job, if you must know, my girlfriend is in school for nursing, and takes the only car... and i dont live near any buses... THATS WHY....

also, before you try to correct someones spelling,and make fun of them, you should make sure you spell correctly as well....

its grammar... not gramar....

stone and Salmo,

do you know the ration of sh!t i would get if i said that fish was any larger than 5 pounds? i already get enough crap saying it WAS 5 pounds... if you guys want to see what the place has to offer for yourselves, i can give you the directions to get there... including where to launch your boat, tube, raft, whatever.... my brother got one a couple years ago that was all of 3 1/2 pounds, and last year he got another one that was pushing 3.... they are around... not 28 inchers, but over 20s arent uncommon.... they arent common by any means, but they are around...

When you post stuff like a 28" searun was only 5 lbs, would you expect anything less then to get a ration?
You'd come off at least half way believable if you said it was 7-8 lbs.

look stone, im not trying to argue about a damn fish ok... like i said, WD has seen one of that size himself... ask him...


anyways, im going fishing, ill let you know how i did when i get back...

Redhook,

You do realize don't you, that what WhiteDog has seen and the fish that you posted as having caught really have nothing to do with one another except that they are two separate accounts of fish, and not the same fish? It's like you don't get the difference between events/topics/items that are related or unrelated. You seem to just scramble things together whether they logically have anything to do with one another or not. Do you know the difference between two things that are coincidental and two things that are causal?

The fact that other fish are caught around this area of HC that you refer to has zero to do with the implausibility of catching a 28" SRC that weighed 5#. If you do not understand that, then there is valid reason why other PP members think you might be developmentally retarded. NTTAWWT cuz nobody is by choice.

Several of us are trying to help out on fly fishing and casting, but I must say you're doing your part to make it less than easy.

Sg

Redhook,

Are you really 33? Seriously. If you are, why don't you have your own car? People and couples solve transportation issues all the time. Seriously.

Sg

my block cracked in my truck, and i dont have 4-6 grand to fix it right now... does it really matter?

anyways, time to make a crappy report...

thanks for the help Salmo...

and fine Salmo, the fish was larger than 5 pounds... i under guess my fish so that i dont look stupid... obviously that didnt work...

now commence to telling me im full of sh!t, for catching a fish far larger than the recorded state record, is what it is....

again, thanks for the help, and the motivation....

I'll go ahead and say it. Based on your track record and propensity for offering blatantly false, inaccurate, and/or ill informed information, I think your full of shi t

I am sure it was a nice fish, maybe it felt like an 80' cast, sure the Sky is narrower in some spots than others, but the facts likely tell different stories entirely. Just because you want to believe something is true, doesn't make it so.

lol every redhook thread is full of fail. yet i read them all for the

Had to read this several times to decipher. Good luck dude, you're gonna need it

Purely awesome. haha

I remember awhile back where every thread was redhook and Avid arguing. I appreciated that about Avid.
Where are you at???

There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure.

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TTT!

Ahhhh yes a true classic.

This puts Nate in perspective doesn't it?

I bought a 9' 5 wt redington. Crosswater. For the price the rod seems to be a really well built rod and feels great. I'd like to learn. I live so close to Lake Sakajawea I thought it would be fun to pull a few stockers out and look at girls walking the lake. The slope from the waters edge proved to not aid a my learning. Need to take some casting lessons.

That explains the ascot. It's a just some fancy code word for a bib!