12 ft. leader on the cowlitz?

I recently moved to Puyallup from the Peninsula. I've been fishing for steelhead for years, but this I certainly never thought I'd see. I went to the Cowlitz for my first time (Blue Creek) and there were 20 or so guys on the bank throwing 1.5 oz lead with 12-20 foot leaders. Needless to say, they caught fish. I DIDN'T. WHY DO THEY DO THIS AND WHY ARE THEY SO SUCCESSFUL? HELP....Also, what should I bring down there for a future trip in the way of gear. Thanks so much for your help.

They're doing what's called lining. The leader travels down the river and gets caught in a fish's mouth. It drags downstream untill eventually reaches the hook. It looks like a legal caught fish but in my opinion it's snagging. People have many different views on this issue.

Flossing!!!!!!!

Snagging!!!

It's a head shot and it's snagging.
Sorry zozo, but thats the way I see it.
I used to work with a guy who fished the cowlitz religiously, with 80in. leaders.
Yeah, it's flossing, oh yeah!!!!!!!!!!

That's OK, Flickyourjig. You are entitled to your opinion. It's stil a head shot and that, my friend, is all that really matters.

A "head shot" is the only thing that matters? Zozo, you can go suck on a monkeys nipple. If a fish doesnt voluntarily take your bait/lure than you are flat out malesting fish. Linning is another form of snagging fellas.

Sorry Zo for the monkey b.s, i just couldnt help myself...you dont line fish do you?

keek your hooks sharp fellas...

There are still some open sores around here regarding the whole lining/flossing issue. Some raise the question "How am I supposed to know whether it is flossed or not", which is valid as long as you are using common sense fishing tactics.

I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, but running more than 36" (I'm being generous here) of leader while casting from the bank on a small stream tends to make me think that you are trying to floss a fish. After all, drift fishing is all about feeling the fish take your offering and how can you do that if you are running 6' of leader?

What it comes down to is morals. You flossers know that you are using a loophole in the current regulations that likely will get tightened up soon. If you can live with your actions, then bravo.

Flossing is Snagging in my book.

The boondoggers in boats on the Cowlitz have a reason for using a 6 foot leader.....it's necessary to get the proper presentation as you drift downstream. There's no reason to go longer than 3 or 4 feet when bankfishing. The ONLY reason to do it is to floss. If you think I'm wrong, then explain to me why a leader more than 4 feet is needed for bankfishing, and I'll retract my statement.

They're flossers, I'll tell ya, flossers!

[ 08-19-2001: Message edited by: Dan S. ]

Sorry guys, I can't help it if I don't think that there's anything wrong with lining fish..... Yes, I do it all the time and I regard lining as a valid tactic. If a fish is hooked in the mouth, it's going on the grill,simple as that. I could care less if the fish intentionally bites my junk or if it gets hooked soley because it was unlucky enough to have it's mouth open as my 10 foot leader comes drifting down to it. I know, I know, this is going to piss you guys off, but I really don't see the difference between a biting fish and a lined fish.

Zozo, I don't know you from squat but you have some very , very, very, low morals. I would definitly teach my children and grand children to stay away from people that have no morals. Jim Marquis The Duck

Zozo, if you think lining is OK, then how come your apologizing to us for doing it?

The mentality your using here seems more inline with commercial netters then sportfishing. Isn't the sport in sportfishing derived from tricking a fish into taking your presentation. If you really don't care wether they bite or not then why don't you just buy your fish from the market? In the long run it's probally cheaper then buying licenses, tags, gear, etc...

Good luck...you may need it.

My appologies are for for the fact that you all seem to take offense to what I am saying, not from the fact that I find no moral wrong in lining a fish. This is a board of opinions, and my opinion is that there is nothing wrong in lining fish. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to decide for himself what he feels comfortable doing.... If a lined fish makes you feel like you're doing something wrong, then don't line fish. There's no way I'd ever line a fish if I thought that there was somehow something wrong with doing it. Evidently, I am in the minority here.... That's OK. I've been the minority before. I really do not mean to ruffle any feathers with the whole lining thing.... I just really don't see the wrong in it. I don't see how lining a fish is akin to snagging a fish..... I've never, ever gone out and purposley snagged fish, but on the other hand, I have gone out and lined them. Maybe some of you guys out there have a problem with that, but from the guys I see out there with ten foot leaders (not just on the Cowlitz) I'd say there really aren't that many of you. It's OK to disagree on things, it's what keeps me coming to this board. If any of you havbe been following my recent posts, you'll know that I've posted on this topic before, and you'll also know that I AM NOT A SNAGGER.... At least not in my book.

Hey Zo Zo:

I have a loaded question to ask you.

Is the morality of lining a fish (because the law allows it) for sporties, any different than the morality associated with the tribal netting (because the law allows it)? Seems to me that the answer lies in who ends up with the self serving gratification.

Zozo, you're a very sick unit to defend flossing. Everyone is trying to do what they can to help the resource, than there you are trying to destroy the fisheries by flossing.
You should be ashamed of your self.
Don't you have any pride? Whats the purpose of wanting to floss? Do you need the meat or do you just enjoy traumatizing fish?
Jim Marquis (Duck In The Fog)

Just curios. 99.9% of the sockeye caught in Alaska are lined. There are 1000's of fisherman partaking in this on a daily basis and it is widely known and accepted.

The ? is, do all of these folks have no morals and are they all terrible people like you say zozo is?

Saltine,

The difference is, it's legal there......it isn't here. That's all.

For the most part Zo,I agree with most of what you say.

But on this point......Sorry no,not this time!!!
Flossing is just a kinder word for snagging
it takes very little skill,that's why a lot of those gubbers do it....because they can't get a fish the real way.................Os

Hey ZoZo, I think it's time to change your moniker.

Duck In The Fog, I have a question for you. You switched the "d" and "f" around and seperated one word into two on your moniker, didn't you. Clever, I just noticed that. F***in the dog! :p

Sounds to me like Dan S. is using presentation as a way to justify flossing.If a 4 ft. leader is good for a bankie,why isn't it good for a boatie.Just because you use a 6ft. leader with a small gob of eggs on it and your fishing from a boat doesn't mean your not doing exactly as your criticizing other people.Whats worse?A flosser,or a flosser condemning somebody else for flossing.At least ZoZo is honest about how and why he does something.To me thats a lot more in the way of having morals and integrity than using an excuse to justify doing the same thing.Trying to make it look o.k.
Little ZoZo,Some people may not agree with your tactics.But they dam sure can't question your honesty.2Thumbs up for that. It seems like we could use a little more around here.

Well Cowfish,its like Dan S. says.Its all in the presentation.Its what seems to matter whether your talking fishing, morals,attitude,or anything else in life.If you make the right presentation enough times, the fish,or the people you are making the presentation to will most likely take the bait sooner or later.

Morality really has nothing to do with it. Legality does. If you keep a flossed fish, you're breaking the law. Do I think ZoZo is immoral, no. Not any more immoral than I am for speeding. However, we're both taking a risk, because it's illegal.

Huntnfish.....there IS a difference between being on the bank, and being in a boat. Are you gonna boondog from the beach? How? You gonna cast that 6 foot leader and then run down the bank a half mile so your bait drifts lazily along? In a boat, the 6 foot leader makes gives you the proper presentation.....from the bank, it doesn't do anything a 3 or 4 foot leader wouldn't do. Telling me I'm justifying flossing just shows you don't know much about boondogging or sidedrifting. I use 6 foot leaders sidedrifting and I've yet to floss one. Try sidedrifting with a 3 foot leader and see how many you catch............

Cowlitzfisherman, This doesn't pertane to you for I respect you and your opinions. But this unethical way of snagging has got my feathers ruff up. I just can't condone this way of snagging and do nothing. Has it come to this method of snagging to catch fish. I will give credit to ZoZo for telling us this,
at the same time I think it wasn't the smartest thing to do. Apperantly he has no pride in the way he fishes. Don't know how old he is but as soon as a lot of you learn that the numbers are not important than and only than will they start to enjoy the sport we love. Duck In The Fog

Finally, I get what all these losers at Blue Crick were doing last winter. I inquired about this practice with the the fellow I was touching elbows with at the end of the line and couldn't seem to get a straight answer about why everyone was using 8' leaders. The funny thing was is that I ended up foul hooking a big Steely on my 30" 8 lb leader and had a blast until it snapped off down stream and I found a large scale left on my hook. I would have certainly let the fish go if I would have landed it because #1 the law requires it and #2 how could a self- respecting angler take pride in keepin a snagged/flossed/netted/dynamited etc. fish? This is supposed to be sport right? Keep it real..

Dammit, You Guys! If a fish is hooked in the mouth, it's legal, simple as that. I challange anybody to prove me wrong. Show me where it says that I can't keep a fish that is hooked in the mouth. Lining is not snagging. If a fish is hooked in the mouth, you can keep it. Final! If you look at 99% of the fish caught boondogging on the Cowlitz, the hook is in the fishes mouth, but it has penetrated in from the outside. Is it wrong to fish like that? I don't know, why don't we ask some of the guides who fish the Cowlitz? Duckinthefog: Yes, I am a "Meat Fisherman". If legal to do so, I keep the fish I catch and I take them home and eat them. Yes, I love to line fish.... I lined one this morning as a matter of fact. It was a chrome bright chinook hen about 18lbs and chocked full of eggs. I kept the fish because it was hooked in the mouth.... Right in the bottom jaw. I will eat the fish and use the eggs for Steelhead this winter. I caught that fish in front of about 30 guys today. There was no shame in it. None at all. It was a legally caught fish. I don't care that the fish didn't "bite" my junk. I put a hook in that fishe's mouth and that is all that matters to me. Am I a bad person? Do I have poor morals? Are you better than me because you refuse to engage in such "Brutal" tactics? Maybe, but I've got a freezer load of fish and only four punches left on my Steelhead card, so in my book what you have to say doesn't really seem to matter that much. If you disagree with my tactics, then that's fine. It's OK to disagree with me. But if you want to attack my Moral Character, if you want to question my integrety and my honesty over something as stupid as this, then we have a problem. I'll be down on the Skokomish this Wednesday at around 8:00AM. I'll be the one with the red tiger striped fishing vest. Come on down and say "HI", then maybe we can discuss what a loser I really am.

ZoZo,

I'm not looking down my nose at you, but make NO mistake. It IS illegal. The WDFW Regs CLEARLY state that a fish must "voluntarily" take your offering. See page 13, under the definition of 'Snagging'. That is black and white. Flossing is you voluntarily getting it in the fish's mouth. I'm not gonna tell you you're immoral or anything, but you really should admit that flossing is illegal. Of course, so is speeding....and I'll most likely be doing that all the way home!

Dan, You may well have a point. However, I am just about 100% positive that nobody....NOBODY, will ever be able to convict me in a court of law. Think what you want to of me and my tactics, that's fine. I'm not going to appologize for lining fish. If I thought I was doing something wrong or immoral, then I wouldn't have ever posted it in the first place. A lot of you guys out there are lining the fish you catch. Do I try to line fish all of the time? No. However, when the occasion calls for it, I'll put on a ten foot leader with a 4mm red bead above a 3/0 hook and a lining I will go. Sorry guys, but I really don't see the wrong in it. Also, being a "Meat Fisherman" like I am, it's not like I am down at the river "Traumatizing" one fish after another. I take my limit and I get the Hell out, so Duckinthefog's little crack about tramatizing fish really doesn't amount to a pile of $hit. Yeah, when I fish, I go to harvest. I only keep Hatchery fish, and I don't hang out at the river all day long ripping on sides. Hell, some of you touchy feely, C&R Fanatics are probably doing more to destroy the resource than I ever could. You come down to the river and you sore-mouth the $hit out of God knows how many fish, you play them out on light tackle until they are half dead. BTW, this causes lactic acid to build up in the fishe's blood stream, and it could be fatal to the fish. Then, you let the fish go so you can go do it all over again. Oh, let's not forget the way some guys gill the fish for the photo op. The worst part is, YOU ARE DOING IT TO NATIVE FISH!!!!!! Hell, I just cme down to the river, get my two fish, and leave.... Hatchery fish, no less. So, who's more immoral? The liner who kills two hatchery fish, or the hard core c&r Fanatic with the noodle rod and the six lb. test line, sore mouthing and subsequently killing one Native Fish after another?

I will agree that Zozo has his opinions based on a liberal interpretation of the rules and he surely won't be invited to go fishing with me, but to compare his technique to fishing Alaska reds is just not accurate...
Reds are just not biters...they feed on krill in the oceans and there is NO presentation that will attract a strike in the Alaska rivers. Lining those fish is the only way to harvest without a net.
These are the facts.
I had some real moral reservations about this until the DFW in Anchorage enlightened me with the facts.

Rip-Lipper

Blue Creek as been this way for probably more years than you are old! With that being said, you must understand how that particular fishery has been managed by the WDFW. Blue Creek is the only entrance to the Cowlitz Tout Hatchery that the fish have. Now what does that tell you?

90% of all the steelhead that have been raised there returns there, if not caught. There is a fish barrier in Blue Cr. to stop all fish from going any further. It is located right above the Blue Creek Trout Hatchery fish ladder.

Some people complain that people are harvesting too many fish at the mouth of Blue Cr. by snagging or "lining" them. That may very well be true, but think about it from there point of view, it might give you a total different prophetic, if you know what is really going on there.

For years, the WDFW Project Biologist staff has been trying to open up that tiny little creek up to harvest (what kind of harvest could you have?). If you ever walked it, you would know just how ridiculous that would be. Talk about a SNAG fishery!

Things are changing, but are they for the better, or are they for the worse? The point is, WDFW wants those fish to be harvested, and if they can make a few bucks on giving out fines while doing so, that's also great and OK with them too! One thing you can count on for the very near future, the games at Blue Creek will continue! Education and this BB will may change a lot of things in the future.

Thanks Bob for letting us air this on your dime!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Hey ZoZo,

Don't worry.....I won't hold any of this against you. I'll keep my eye out for you on the Skok, and say "Hi" if I see you.

Don't let yourself get ruffled, differences of opinion aren't worth getting too worked up over. It'd be a boring world if I never had anyone to argue with!

Small bead and a 3/0 hook... thats just wrong.... lol good god

ZO ZO

With those balls of steel of yours, I would stay away fro magnets!!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

GFC - so am I understanding you correctly that if a fish is hard or tough to get a strike from in fresh water, its ok to floss/line/snag. I've caught Sockeye while nymphing with a strike indicator up there so I know they bite, just not very well. Don't get me wrong either, I've caught hundreds using the 'traditional' method. Just a little curious why its ok to line a fish when they're lockjaws, legalities aside since this really is a moral discussion and laws are open for some grey areas.

Don't feel bad Dan, I just got done doing a little speedin' myself. Hope no one saw that will think less of me.

Dan S. sorry,I probably shouldn't have made my remarks so personal. No I don't know much about boondogging,Only done it a couple times.I'm just a poor ole bank maggot.
I don't understand why you need a 6 foot leader to make a lazy natural drift out of a boat.But if your fishing the exact same water from the bank,a 3-4 foot leader will work.Why would'nt that same 6 foot leader also give you a better presentation.As long as your in a spot where you can still cast it.
Little zozo made some good points though.About cnr,light lines etc.Isn't repeatedly catching fish and releasing them about the same as molesting or harrassing fish.Maybe not legally but morally,I would think so.
I don't fish for steelhead a whole lot.But I know people that do.When they are out boondogging they go for the long leader for exactly the same reason zozo does.Sure you might get more biters because of a better presentation.But they also line their share of fish.I probably cought 2-3 fish boondogging.At least one of those was not a biter.So I know it happens.I have a hard time believing you have never lined one while doing this.Maybe you just never really paid that much attention to it.
When it comes to hatchery fish,(salmon)Wouldn't you rather see them harvested and put to good use.Rather than end up as dog food or something of the sort.Sure a few dead ones in the river and on the bank are good nutrients,but From what I saw last year there were plenty for that.I say hookem,landem, eatem.

Thank you, Dan. I'm really not the horrible B@stard some of these guys are making me out to be. Huntnfish: I couldn't agree more. Cowlitzfisherman: No balls of steel here. Just an honest guy who refuses to lie to others, or to himself. A lot of guys who post on this board talk a good line, but when push comes to shove, a good percentage of these people will be down on the river bank, ripping and tearing with the best of them...... It's a fine notion to say that the reason we fish is so that we can commune with nature and find peace within ourselves. I have no idea just how many times I've heard hunting and fishing compared to religion. Guys talking about the majestic Steelhead and their undying love of the fish they pursue. I'm much more practical than that. I hunt and fish because I am a predator and I derive enjoyment from the act of killing and eating the fish I catch and the animals I kill.

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: LittleZoZo ]

ZoZo, I may be straying on topics but you mentioned h0w many punches you have. So what.Do you really think it matters to any of us? That's alot of fish!!!! Nothing better than freezer burnt fish. You forgot to tell us when it's time to start throwing them away. By the way I've been steelheading and salmon fishing for over 50 yrs. and never lined a fish that I know of. This is not a personal attack, I just don't condone linning fish. Forget the numbers and enjoy the resource. The Duck

If the state was concerned about flossing they would restrict leader length.

Jerry Garcia

You Got it right!!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook?????

Danny boy you better slow down

ZoZo I will commend you on the size of B***s,

But I beleive the old days of just filling a freezer because we can is over

I will not try to impose my morals on you.I'll be sure and say Howdy on Wednesday.....Os

BTW not all of us C&R Fanatics use 6 lb test and noodle rods

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

Duck in the Fog are you maybe just a bit jealous that Little zozo has a freezer full of fish.I think if he's in it for the meat he probably takes pretty good care of his fish. If you have a family A person could go through that many fish pretty fast.Sure if they get freezer burnt and go to waste thats bs.Then he doesn't deserve to catch fish.But I would be willing to bet there are an awful lot of fish that people release as part of their cnr that die as they float away,and what do they say about that.Damn I thought for sure that one would be o.k.Well shucks I better get my line in the water so I can hook another one.

Heh Osprey good to hear from you, miss yass!!! PEACE!!!

I hope I never piss you off...



[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: RPetzold ]

Hntnfsh, first what is there to be jealous about. I don't want a freezer full of fish. I might keep 3 fish a year and they are ate within 2 days of being caught. I see you are into the numbers game, someday when you grow up you'll learn that is not what it's all about. Then you will have serenity too.
Jim Marquis (Duck In The Fog)
P.S. How did this come to c&r?

One thing I have noticed fishing some of the hatcheries around this state is that the fish and game are more worried about the boundries and gear (barbless) then what you are doing. I know of at least two places that fish and game has issued tickets to the guy who kept crossing the boundry marker but yet said nothing to the guys using 3/0 + hooks with painted bananna weights or "lining". In my opinion, I really don't think the f&g cares what or how you fish in front of hatcheries (the ones I have seen) as long as they have there escapemnt. After that they close the gates and the rest of the fish are stuck out in front trying to get in and then what?
Thats when the free for all seems to happen.
Every one knows these fish are not biting yet c&r guys along with snaggers are fishing for them, in this case whats the harm? They have there escapement and not opeing the gates and the fish will all die , what do you do then?.

Im with Jim on this one. Numbers dont mean jack. A guy that fishes in solitude will outfish a guy standing at the hatchery outlet any day. Fishings not about putting up numbers like football, its for our own enjoyment. I fish areas like reiter just enough to get a fish or two for the BBQ and the rest of the time spent hunting steelies in no mans land.

If getting rid of excess hatchery fish is the reason for lining, than why not give them to the indians in trade for not netting the lower stretches?????

Duck in the Fog I feel peace and serenity everytime I kill something for dinner.It brings a certain calm to me.Thats good enough for me.And no matter what I catch or kill it does'nt go to waste.You said you would'nt let your kids around somebody with morals like little zozo's Well I would be more concerned about kids being around you.They would obviously get the feeling that everybody was a bad person,just because you don't agree with their ideals.So where does that put you in that big pile of morals.I know,better than everybody else right.Because your Ideals and morals are all that matters.

Well after I made that last post I realized that a lot of us including myself,need to understand that everybody has their own thoughts and feelings on how everybody else should or should not do things.I don't think that its necessary for us to personally insult other sportsmen.I don't think thats what this site is supposed to be about.Maybe if we don't agree, a point would be better taken if we kept the personal insults out of it,and made our points with somewhat logical reasoning.
I saw some personal slamming going on and it kind of ticked me off.So I couldn't keep my mouth shut.But I know I handled my responses wrong also.I'll try not to respond that way anymore.But I will stick up for what I believe in,and thats the right of everybody on here to express their opinion and not get ridiculed or belittled for it.
As far as I know I never said anything about my fishing habits that disclosed whether I was in it for the sport or the meat,so any thoughts by other people on that are pure speculation.All I did was express a point of view, and defend the right of somebody else to have a point of view.I don't remember ever saying that I agreed or disagreed with them.
As far as the cnr part of it,What I was pointing out is that either way you look at it its a waste of resources and its not right in either instance.
So I do now hereby agree to be more civil and try not to offend anybody in a personal manner.But I'll argue a whole lot more, on a more civil note though.Arguin is like fishin ,its a mighty fine sport,sometimes we just need to use a little more finess.

well, I joined this one late as usual. Flossing is illegal, in fact fish must be hooked from inside the mouth to be considered legal, not from the outside in. Flossing is snagging and in my opinion no better than someone using a 9/0 treble and snagging fish in the back. Flossers are losers and should be prosecuted, it is legal in some areas of Alaska but not in WA or OR. If you do it when I am watching, I will turn you in as fast as I will crack a brew.

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: salmontackler ]

For the record.... It's not just about the number of fish I catch. I love to fish and I love to catch fish. Just because I don't subscribe to Duckinthefog's "Zen" approach to fishing doesn't mean that I am less of a person. Also, there is nothing at all wrong with wanting to keep fish for the freezer. None of my fish goes to waste. I smoke, can, or pickle a pretty good portion of the fish I catch, the rest gets cooked and eaten. Those punchcards are there for a reason boys. And yes, fishing means much more to me then simply obtaining meat. However, there is a certain sense of satisfaction I feel when I return home from a day of fishing with a couple of chrome brite fish to show for my efforts. Bottom line: I don't have a problem with keeping a lined fish or ten. If lining fish is something that you have a problem with, then don't do it. If you are above fishing around a bunch of Liners, then stay away from those kinds of fisheries. And, if you do choose to turn me in for Lining (prove it) then that's your choice to make. If that makes you sleep easier at night, knowing that you've rid the World of yet another hardened criminal, then turn me in. I just hope you can get your hands on that Cell phone before I get my hands on you.

I guarantee it....snagger

The challenge and the 'sport' of fishing is fooling the fish into 'biting' the offering on the end of your line. Taking advantage of the fact the the fish swims while opening its mouth to manuever your line into its mouth is not 'fishing'. How about spending less time learning the feel of a leader dragging through a fishes teeth, and spending more time learning how to cure good eggs, or match the corkie and yarn size to what they want to 'bite'.......

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: backlash2 ]

Excellent -- now we're back to threats of physical violence:

"I just hope you can get your hands on that Cell phone before I get my hands on you. "

I guess the legality issues have pretty much been covered, but just for the record, this is what snagging is, according to the authorities that will haul your sorry a__ off to court: "Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth."

ZoZo, go on and rationalize all you want, but you are breaking the law. You clearly aren't mature enough to accept the consequences of your actions, but sooner or later your number will come up. It won't be because of me turning you in, I'm staying away from the rivers. I don't want to have to explain to my kids why Dad got threatened or beat up or shot for trying to do the right thing.

Regards.

Mike
Woodinville

The rules also say if a fish is hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue, it should be kept if legal to do so.
I for one let them all go. That does not make me holier than thow. I fish 50in. leaders and hook all my fish on the retrieve.
Ganging up on a single board member for being honest with you guys will likely bring out there bad side. I know it would me.
By the way, Fish and Game turns there head on this matter everyday. If hooked in the gill, eye or tongue, it should be kept.
What WDFW is saying is that a HEADSHOT is legal----sad but true----Easy boys eggy!

I don't think so. You are stretching things a bit. You can hook a fish through the eye or the gill from the inside of the mouth, which is of course what WDFW has in mind.

At any rate, the determining factor is intent, both on the part of the fisher and the fish. Both are pretty much impossible to determine. The fisher is the only one that really knows what his intentions were.

Regards.

Mike
Woodinville

I am not threatening physical violence. I am simply being honest in that you have your way of dealing with things that you don't like, and I have my way of dealing with things that I don't like. If you want to turn me in for lining, you'll have the Balls to do it right out in front of God and everybody and deal with my wrath while we wait for the Fish Cops to get there. If you want to avoid all that, then you can always sneak off into the bushes and call the Fish Cops in private.... However, that would exhibit a fundamental lack of Balls on your part, and I personally would rather be called a Snagger, or anything for that matter, then to have to live with myself knowing I didn't even have the Balls to handle a situation like a real man. Also, I am not rationalizing lining. I have never once tried to give some reason that would make lining OK. I have simply said that I line fish, I enjoy lining fish, and that I am very good at it. I have also said that if you have a problem with lining, then don't do it. There if no rationalization at all. I don't have to rationalize anything. The other thing that I would like to address is the legality in lining. By now you guys should be familiar enough with me and my opinions on this matter to know that I am not overly concerned with the legality of the whole lining issue. However, I will say this on the subject: Knowing something and proving something are two totally different things. Secondly, there are several condradictions in the Game laws... Enough so that I could beat any kind of Lining rap they could stick me with. Lastly, just because something is Legal, doesn't mean it is right to do. To the same token, just because something is Illegal, doesn't mean it is wrong to do. For example, it is legal in most states to marry your second cousin (Hey Y'All might be familiar with this law) but just because it is legal, does that make it right?

ZoZo, For the most part I just don't aprove of the way you fish. Believe it or not some of my old buddies line fish, but I still enjoy being friends with them. As a person I can't and shouldn't judge you. You're probably a good person. I don't know. I do believe that making threats in this forum is not justifiable. You not knowing who you're dealing with could get you into a lot of trouble. You might win ,you might get your ash kicked. It's time for you to realize that this is not a personal vendetta. We shoud not carry it further then that.
If you put this mess into perspective you'll understand that this whole topic is blown out of proportion. Duck In The Fog.

Oy.

Breaking the law is, by nearly any ethical standard, wrong. You may choose to do it anyway, but it does not lessen the wrongness of doing it. BTW, punching someone's lights out for calling you in to the poaching Hotline will most likely get you jail time. You can practice being a "man" while you're in there

All for a few slabs of meat that you could have picked up at Safeway

Duckinthefog: You make a valid point. It's hard not to take some of these remarks as a personal attack. I am of the same opinion as you in that just because we disagree on an issue, it doesn't have to get personal. However, when people are telling you what a horrible person you are, and telling you how they would tell their children to stay away from people like you.... Well, it's hard to take that kind of a statement as anything other than personal. As far as violence goes, you're right, I could get myself into all kinds of trouble by spouting off to someone that I've never even seen. I might win, I might get my @ss kicked. It doesn't matter. the better part of valor lies in the act, not in the end result, ie, I've had my @ss kicked before..... It's not that bad. I would rather get my @ss kicked knowing I tried then to turn tail and run just to save my skin. I'm not about fighting and confrontation, quite the contrary. But, when everyone gangs up and starts to issue insults and personal attacks, then I go on the defense, and that's when I resort to confrontation and violence. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about me. I'm just a regular guy with a wife and three kids. I like to fish. I enjoy the company of most of the guys I meet on the river. I've never gotten into a fist fight on the river, and for the most part, the other fishermen I've encoutered over the last 20 years or so, are some of the best people I've met. I'm in it for the fish, not all of the other B.S. This will be my last post on this topic as I have grown bored of it. Later, guys.

He, he, if you think that getting your a__ kicked is "not that bad," then you've never really gotten your a__ kicked. You may have gotten slapped around a bit by someone that knew not to really hurt you, but when you really get your a__ kicked, you end up in the hospital, you may not work (or fish) for 6 months, you may inherit a colostomy bag, you may even get dead.

This is the great fallicy about all of the so-called "men" who brag about kicking so-and-so's a__. Unless you have some training in how to rough someone up without maiming or killing them, the outcome is usually pretty grim. One of the things I learned in the military (and since forgot) was how to quickly remove someone's will to fight, and it usually involved the loss of at least one major body function, and sometimes all of them at once. Are you willing to gamble that whoever you're pissed at has these skills still fresh in his/her mind?

Regards.

Mike
Woodinville

Finegrain & Littlezozo

You guys are both getting out of line and pushing this issue up way to far! It's only a thread! Anybody who's lived past 40, doesn't want, or need any more pain. No fish is worth more pain. Everybody needs to let it go and move on. There is a ton of other stuff that we can all get excited about. Lets do that!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

This is getting ridiculous where is the Sherrif, all this energy and we put it to use slamming each other, how about devoting some to the real issues like getting nets out of the rivers. Whether or not a fish is lined is pretty piddily if you ask me. What do you say we drop this thread.

I agree!!

Lets move it on.

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Piscatorial SMACK DOWN, BRUTHAH!

posted 08-02- 09:16 AM AkDT (US)
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Contender,
"Lining" Reds is the most productive method of hooking and catching them legally. Some time of sparsely tied fly is tied to a leader or directly to monofilament line. A sinker is attached 18" or more above the fly. The sinker should weigh enough so that it bounces along the bottom.

If Reds are present and the current is strong enough to keep them moving upstream without milling, then as the leader or line passes through the fish it will often pass through their open mouths. The line will then slide through their mouths and the hook will set inside their mouths. This "type of strike" is often not a strong one and one has to learn to feel the right time to set the hook.

It took me many years to figure out what was happening. I remember thinking that the fishing always got better when my fly got battered up for some reason. I also used to think that Reds were sure nice because, unlike Kings & Silvers, you didn't have to get up early in the morning for the best fishing. (grin)

However, there are exceptions to the general rule that Reds will not strike a lure. I have caught them using a jet diver & eggs on the Kenai and have even caught them using a Mepps spinner. However, I would not attempt to catch a limit using such methods.