INDIANS now want to be partners in the Dams they have Damned?!?

Fisheries Newswire:

PACIFICORP, YAKAMA NATION WILL APPLY FOR PRIEST RAPIDS LICENSE

PacifiCorp and the Yakama Indian Nation have signed a preliminary
agreement to file a joint competing license application with FERC for the
Priest Rapids hydro project, now operated by Grant County PUD.
Representatives of the utility and the tribe indicate their goal is to
more broadly share the benefits of the two-dam, 1900-MW project with the
region. Grant County PUD, which holds the existing license, now uses about
37 percent of the output; the rest is under contract to 12 public and
private utilities, with the region's four IOUs receiving the most. The
current license expires in 2005; PacifiCorp and the Yakamas must file
their competing application by 2003.
http://www.newsdata.com/enernet/fishletter/fishltr129.html#4
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Hmmmmmmmm! I find this very interesting in light of historical Tribal damnation of Columbia R. watershed dams. The Yakima Tribe is one of the more powerful among the Columbia Tribal Commission, which have been documented as using the non-Indian built dams as their trump card in negotiations to get unfair and illegally higher fish allocations than Treaties and Federals Courts have mandated. Now the Yaks have "signed" a hypocritical agreement! This proves money is much more important than native fish runs to them - which has already been demonstratred via other actions. - RT

Wonder if some shiny beads and a bottle of red eye might get um to change their minds.

As much as your sister in a new dress that Mama made drives you wild, Chuck.

Seemed funny at the time, carry on.

Chuck, I laughed. Thanks for the chuckle.

You guys are a bunch of clowns. I can't help but laugh at how stupid you are.

So you think that the current management cares more about the fish than the indians??????? Hello???????????

Hey NZed
Y dont we stay away from the name callin all that leads to is a bunch of pissed off fisherman and trust me you dont want that.

Everyone knows that all they care about is MONEY! and MONEY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dances OUT!

So wouldn't the tribe that's holding a license for a hydroelectric project be in conflict with the Bolt decision?
How can you be responsible for mitigating project damages and at the same time reek back half of the mitigation benefits back to yourself? Wouldn't you be getting into a "monopoly" of some type? You sell a public resource (water) and you pay for project mitigation with the funds that are generated from that resource, and then you get half of the benefits back to yourself. I think the tribe might be biting off more then they can chew on this one.

Lets here from the legal minded folks on this issue.

Cowlitzfisherman,

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Hey Kiwi,

If that's all you have to say, then get lost. I'd say "stupid" is pretty well defined in YOUR post.

Dam licensing isn't JUST about fish, genius. It's about power rates, too. And we don't want some British firm teaming up with the tribes in operating OUR utilities. Do you want to look into forcasted rates if PacifiCorp and the Yakima tribes DO get the license?

Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.........

Doesn't matter particularly who owns or operates these dams. Priest Rapids and Wanapum are non-federal dams that operate under a federally issued license from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. If Pacificorp and the Yaks prepare a license application that is more in the overall public interest than Grant PUD does, then it would only make sense for FERC to issue the new license to the competing applicant. Of course, if the competing applicant gets the new license, they have to pay the original owner the current market value of the project, and that could result in a lawsuit just to determine that.

These two dams are very valuable power producers when measured against their capital and operating costs. However, Grant PUD hasn't been particularly cooperative in mitigating the fishery impacts of these dams. And BTW, these two are major fish killers on the mid-C, so owner/operators who are more amenable to fully mitigating project impacts on fisheries might better serve the public interest. The dams would still produce a hell of a lot of power, at a very slightly higher cost. Fisheries mitigation isn't cheap, but it is a pretty small % of the cost of energy. Unmitigated projects are stealing from the public in my opinion.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Gambling casinos, cigarette sales, fireworks sales, hotels, Home depot, Wallmart, etc, etc, etc. I dont think theres any real Indians left, at least in the pacific NW. In other words they have become white, and have learned how to play the white mans game rather well. Do they really care about fisheries? It doesnt look that way. Money seems to be the goal now. So where is the real Indians? Maybe in Montana or Dakotas.

Ain't it something how an indian tribe can do as much damage as a liberal, white corporation?
Pack sand in your ass, KAHUALA BEAR!!!!!!
!!
Teepee creepin in the wrong hemisphere on the wrong night for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And tou voted for clinton----Take that with ya!!!!! :p :p :p

Hey NZ
I guess you have all the indians life styles figured out! I have a couple questions.

How much do they pay for rent each month?

How much do they get from the gov't each month?

Well lets hear it you seem to know everything about anything. If you cant figure it out then just ask cuz I am sure I or some other fisherman could tell you.

One more thing where are you really from the Northwest or somewhere else cuz if your from around the here you have no Idea what the problems are like.

People like you really piss me off
Dances Out

A good many of us are quite well informed and also mature enough not to go around spoutin off like some corn cobber. I for instance, know alot of our tax dollars went into helping restore runs in the Yakima. And alot of our money has gone into helping tribes improve their way of life. Which I am cool with, I am fairly sympathetic to their cause. I believe, however, they can't be allowed to run roughshod. Giving them the retail taxes from a store while we also give them dollars to build houses and schools is a good example.
My previous post was meant as a joke, which would probably piss off both indian haters and sympathizers alike, so be it. I will not allow my sympathetic approach to indians blind me from the reality of some situations as it apparently has with you NZ.
Give a man whatever the hell he wants and eventually he just won't give a crap anymore.

Thanks for the insight Salmo. ...

As for you New Zealot, I feel compelled to quote your initial post in this discussion thread about an important news release: "You guys are a bunch of clowns. I can't believe how stupid you are." ... To open your part of this discussion with that phrase demonstrates both your questionable intellect and poor disposition. And while some of our posts may appear, or in some cases actually be, a one sided view only, your's is certainly that without question. Let me show one example ...

You mention only how much the Indians have done to restore runs to the Yakima and Umatilla rivers. What you didn't mention is that it has been done with our money and developed technology. Jed Volkman is the non-Indian trained fish biologist in charge of much of the Umatilla salmon and steelhead hatchery. It's a similar situation with the Yaks. ... You also failed to see the other side of this equation. Those same 2 Tribes belong to the Columbia Region Intertribal Fish Commission. The Yaks are among the most powerfully represented by this Commission. They threatened frivilous and unethical (amounting to blackmail) federal lawsuits to get some of the Snake River dams removed. In light of the utterly unfair Fed. Judge Belloni to allocate 50% of the harvestable COlumbia fish to the Tribes (as Fed. Judge Boldt did in the cases of NW Washington Tribes), the Fed's cowered to the Commissions demands that they get 6 1/2 times the allocation of Col. chinook salmon of non-Indians (commercial and sportfishers combined) because of being concerned of the outside chance of another disasterous decision in favor of the Tribes. And the Tribal Commission pushed for and got an increase of Fed. ESA (Endangered Species Act) impact on wild chinook salmon from 9% last year to 15% this year!!! Totally unfair and actually illegal by Fedreal Court decree. The Tribes are gillnetting and killing wild fish at an improper rate; and getting away with it. Also, the Col. Indian gilnetters have refused to go along with WDFW & ODFW urging to switch to the new tooth tangle nets that allow wild native fish to be released - unlike the certain wild fish killing gillnets! They have also now made an official request (request for them = demanding via another threatened unethical lawsuit) for the clipping of all hatchery Columbia chinook salmon to be stopped! These 2 major things will not allow for the selective harvest of hatchery fish, and the continued killing off of wild ESA salmon. Now with these FACTS in mind NZ, what do you have to say about such as the Yak and Uma hatcheries?!? ...

A person (you NZ) that comes in namecalling right out of the gate, and talks smack about things he doesn't know &/or not want to reveal in attempting to make a point is just LAME! ... Then you have the audacity to calls all of us Indian haters. Most here don't hate Indians - we hate the wrongful things they do to wild fish and to sportfishermen! ...

Now go back and re-read my initial first post statement to be discussed within this thread. -

'I find this [see above signed agreement] very interesting in light of historical Tribal damnation of Columbia R. watershed dams. The Yakima Tribe is one of the more powerful among the Columbia Tribal Commission, which have been documented as using the non-Indian built dams as their trump card in negotiations to get unfair and illegally higher fish allocations than Treaties and Federals Courts have mandated. Now the Yaks have "signed" a hypocritical agreement! This proves money is much more important than native fish runs to them - which has already been demonstratred via other actions'. ... I will also add that they have demonstarted time and again in the Columbia region and NW Washington region total disregard and disrespect of white sportfishermen - even 'in your face' disdain! Many of them are the ones with most of the "hatred" within. - RT

Thanks RT!

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: Dogfish ]

Every time I read your post, NZ, I come away with the same conclusion, What an ignorant,blind,bleeding heart liberal!
The only fisher I've heard who can turn a streambank into a steambank.
RT ain't the only one you've pissed off but it's enough.
How do you breath with your head that far up your a$$?
Sorry chuck-This kinda thing pisses me off too!
ROO- What a dink!--------Your hopeless.

I might add that 4 years ago the Tribal Comm. agreed to go to 9 inch mesh instead of six inch in their gillnets to lessen their impact to summer steelhead runs. Not only have they refused to use the new tooth tangle nets, but they have never switched over to the nine inch mesh to lessen their impact on the steelhead. Another fine example of the tribes 'caring' about the fish.....