Why people pack heat?

(I know this one has been on the board before-but its high time.)

Or should I say guys that cant fight. Amazes me that guys think they need to pack a gun on the river. Definately a sign that the guy is a wuss. Makes for a guy to be all talk --"Im not scared of "so n so" I have a gun"

If you need to pack a gun go hunting.

thats all I have to say about that

The reason is very simple.

1. We have the right to pack.
2. An armed society is a polite society.
3. The ability and willingness to fight is usually related to blood alcohol levels and personality disorders.
4. Fist fights are more likely to get you killed than backing out of a situation with your hand on a holstered gun.

Call me a wuss but I will live alot longer as an armed wuss. And I usually don't even pack. Doc

I don't fight. I must be a wuss. But, being the wuss that I am, I don't go around looking for trouble or fights on the river. I mostly go there to fish and get away from yahoos that think they are not wusses.

Won't say either way if I pack heat or not. Not too sure I'd recommend anyone taking a swing at me, though.

Nice post Coho. Trolling??

I do pack, I don't pick fights (last time I got into a fight was in 6th grade and I didn't start it), and I've had to pull my weapon twice. Once as a civilian, once as an officer. No shots fired, both guys went to jail for a long time. Much better than me being dead for a longer time.

Are there some boneheads out there who shouldn't pack. HELL YES! The same can be said for drivers who shouldn't drive, boaters who shouldn't boat, fishermen who should take up needle point, and some members of internet chat boards who should just stay on the sidelines and not bring up such inflamatory posts.

I have a great attitude towards life, but I also take full responsibility for my safety, and my family's safety. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That's my attitude.

I don't want to return to my rig when some tweaker is breaking into it and not obey the first rule of a gun fight. Bring a gun.

Maybe you should take a look at how you view life. Instead of knocking someone for a choice they make, worry about yourself. Must be the Liberterian in me rising to the surface. Don't tread on me, and I won't tread on you.

There is a great deal of responsibility that goes along with carrying. I accept it, and I don't look down on folks who choose not to carry.

Have a nice, and I wish you well.

Very well said dogfish i agree 100%

As you know if you want to pack its your right. But sitting back thinking about how many times I've seen a gun out on the river. None. I wear my helmet and steel armor while at blue creek, I see the additudes fly, but even those who are packing are not waving them around. As for 99%+ you couldn't tell if they were or not, unless its one of those big Dirty Harry jobs Just my .02

Let me just ask those of you who do carry firearms WHERE THE HELL YOU FISH!! Hopefully not the same places I do! I certainly wouldn't feel safe fishing around any of you, knowing that at any time you could pull it out on me and take me out if I did something that pissed you off. Now, I can totally see packing heat into the deep wilderness fishing areas where you could be stalked by a cougar, etc. But, what business do you have bringing something like that down to the local river or lake? Just gonna bust a cap on whoever picks on you? Don't get me wrong, I'm no "take away the guns from the citizens" person. I believe everyone has a right to own a gun if they want to. But to bring the damn thing fishing with you? What's the world coming to.

I'm with Dogfish

Excellent answer and a thoughtful response

Fishing's supposed to be fun isn't it? Maybe I'm just very opinionated on this subject because I've witnessed one of these 'bad situations'. If I remember right, a guy's fish was stolen and he blamed another guy for stealing it. When the other guy said he hadn't touched the fish, the first guy pulled a .45 pistol out of his jacket and stroked it. Stupid. Totally f*cking stupid. What are people thinking! Luckily nothing happend that day, but something could have. This same type of situation could happen again in the future and what if this time the guy with the gun is a little more steamed and doesn't think before he does something. Then what. "One goes to the morgue and the other's in jail." Sad.

A lot of debate can come from this post...

Personally I don't pack unless I am in Alaska or remote B.C. (bears). However, there were a few times I wish I had here in Washington.

1) I have seen my truck broke into while returning from the river. Nothing I could do. 2 to 1 situation.

2) I was fly fishing for Chums in a well-known estuary and some idiot was casting Buzz Bombs 100 feet in 3 feet of water (snagging for sure). The BBs kept landing within 2-3 feet of me each time. I tactfully approached the individual and politely asked him to be more thoughtful and careful. I moved to a different location and within 5 minutes he was standing in front of me- same thing. I approached him again... he said next time something comes out of my piss flaps, he was going to kick my a$$... Instead of round 3, I left for the parking lot. Called WFG and reported the snagging and incident...was told to call the local law enforcement. Apparently, there is nothing WFG can/will do for snagging Chums with BBs. Law enforcement never showed!

.... would you approach an individual(s) who wasn't within the regs without heat? One never knows what the other guy is like..

I, for one, will always walk away from a physical confrontation before starting one (unless I have no choice). Doesn't make me a wuss... However, I would be a little more confident approaching the matter with more of a well place tone if I was packing.

Downriggin'

KB,

I agree that it is a shame that some people have to pack heat while fishing. That being said...My fishing partner carries and I have no problem with it! None! I know that he is safe. Just like Dogfish said...some people shouldnt pack just like some people shouldnt be boaters or drivers. I know that it is on a different scale...obviously. He and I never muscle our way into spots with it! That would not be tolerated whatsoever, it would be reported in a second! However, There have been times when people loose their cool and start getting very upset and somehow regain control of themselves as soon as they see the S&W revolver on his hip. Amazing huh? We do not usually have to say a word...for some odd reason they tend to let things be and all of a sudden we are friends again! What right do we have to bring a gun with us down to the 'ol fishing hole...The Second Ammendment...that's what right we have!
Also, I sure as heck wished that I had a sidearm when some A-Hole broke into my Jeep while I was fishing and took all of my fishing gear from the back! I dont think that he would have run too far if a gun was pointed at him...and I have every right to do that!
KB, this isnt just geared towards you, I apologize if it sounds like it...not my intent...it is intended for all of the Nay-Sayers. The day I turn 21 I am getting a handgun...and I will be packing on the river...but I believe that it is MY responsibility to be educated on my handgun so I will have taken ALL of the classes before I make that purchase.
I do wonder of course though if someone else is carrying a sidearm, are they as safe and as careful as I am? I sure hope so!!! My humble opinion.

-Coot

Guns are for killing.If you hunt great, good for you.I dont think any of us have the power to decide who should die.YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT!and I do not think that right should be taken away I would fight for that,but hand guns have one use,to kill other people, what kind of a jack ars needs one to go fishing!!!!!

Ive seen many poeple down on the cowlitz packen heat that,s there choice I personaly only in my boat, when Im fishing from the shore ive got enough stuff to be packing around{fish that is}.
Ive never had to pull nor do I ever want to Im there to fish and have a good time. But if the time should arise I will do what it takes to protect my family and I.

Yes, I guess I can see it now. Having a gun with you while fishing is showing who's the boss. Lookee here everybody, I got a gun, who's the man now? Kind of like beating the crap out of that poor fat kid on the playground back in the 4th grade, wouldn't you say. Makes a lot of sense. Again, nothing personal.

Most individuals that have concealed weapons permits never pull out their gun. We are educated in What is lawful and right. The redneck that pulls it out to show power or intimidation? This is why I conceal while out fishing.
I hope in my life time I never have to pull my gun, But when I do it will be to save my life or maybe yours.
Tight Lines

Fool

I usually carry only when I am fishing far from home.

You normally will not see people waving guns on the river because the rule is "if you have to pull it you should use it".

Heck, my gun has come in handy more times at the ATM machine than any other time. I love it when people (bums) appear out of no where just after you take money out of the ATM machine.

i am personaly against handguns for my own use.I think they are generally speaking very dangerous.if you are capable of safely caring one, then by all means have at it. I've fished with lots of guys, including dogfish, that pack. i have no problem with that. i always carry a rifle in remote areas for survival purposes, because i think they are much more effective.
the best way to avoid confrontations with rude fishermen is to fish where there are no people.

Coho, I pack a tater gun!

KB,

Reasoning with you on this situation may be like a hunter trying to sway a PeTA person into going out on a duck hunt, but I love challenge.

I am sorry that you ran into a jerk. Okay? Most responsible folks keep their firearm concealed. You wouldn't know if I was packin', even if I were dressed in shorts and a t-shirt.

Anybody who uses a drawn firearm as a way to intimidate someone else is a criminal. That is unless the one carrying the firearm percieves the person they pull it on to be an immediate threat to their life, or the lives of those in their immediate vicinty, or they believe that person is about to cause them grave bodily harm.

It is lawfull for folks to carry a firearm while fishing, no concealment necessary, but again, with most of us you would never know we had a gun.

The best way to diffuse a situation is to walk away. Downriggin was on the money. No fish is worth someone's life, but there are times when you can no longer walk away. I've been there twice, and I'm still here because I had a pistol.

Anybody who does carry, and invites confrontation should not carry. Folks who would walk away, they have the right attitude.

So in some ways we agree. Jerks should not carry, but not all who carry are jerks. These folks who are jerks are the exception. The reason you don't hear about the rest of us is because we're not the exception, we are the rule.

Andy

Dogfish --- Yeah, like he said. Smart guy.

jett'in fool, well said, i to pack have for 10 years, have yet to have to pull on anyone, i don't fight but will if i feel for a the right reason i believe education is the best bet, i have a family to protect as well as my self, and unfortnally the world today is full of some uneducated people who don't know how to act, so i will not be the down fall of those people, sadly enough this is the real world, will help when i can but also know when to walk away

You can bemoan "what things have come to", but that hardly means things haven't, indeed, come to "this". I don't pack heat because I'm pretty confident in my abilities to avoid a situation which would call for a piece, but you never know. Like bardo, I've decided that packing isn't in my, or anyone else's best interest.

However, like Andy (Dogfish), my partner almost always packs his piece when we're fishing. Does it bother me? No, because he's well trained in it's use, and I feel that if he did pull it, I'd be glad he had it with him. I figure, until he shows some irresponsibility in it's handling, I have no reason to get wound up about him carrying.

Gee, bardo............if only ALL of us could fish where there aren't any people. We don't all have helos, you know.

I am with Dogfish, Jett'in Fool, and Easy Limits......The reason we carry a gun (conceled) is to not only protect ourselves, but our families from the scum you cannot walk away from.

The day you need your gun, and use, may be one of the most unhappy days in your life, but your family will be glad you did...

Pack it, great..............Pull it, use it.........

Why does packing heat make you a wuss? I just dont see it. The only reason for shooting somebody is to protect life. Can you protect life when you need to without a gun? Maybe, maybe not. Its not even legal in oregon,(dont know about washington) to display a gun if you have a concealed cary permit. So ask them if they have a concealed permit, if they say yes, report them if they are waving it around. The way it was explained to me during my concealed carry class is if you have to pull a gun and you dont use it you are gonna go to jail. So make sure you only pull it if you really need it. Some people pack all the time. It is our right, and I dont see anything wrong with that. How in the heck are you supposed to know when you might need your gun? Are you less likely to need it fishing then going to the movies? Just when is it ok and not ok to carry? If its a one on one confrontation, ill take an a$$ whipping before id pull a gun. But if they were armed and i thought my or someone elses life was in danger id protect that life by whatever means i had. probably with a 9mm.

my 02, thats why people get consealed weapons permits because thy fell confident in there own judgment in knowing when to use and when to walk the ones that don't are the reason everyone else does

You pack heat while fishing for the same reason you would pack heat anywhere. To defend yourself and/or others. Just because someone is fishing doesn't mean they're not a total whack job. KB, are you saying that people shouldn't bring a method to protect themselves while fishing? How about in other situations? What's the difference?

like any thing else you don't play by the rules you pay the consuquenses' you pack heat and play by the rules no consuquenses you have the upper hand plain and simple

danny boy, you can bet your ass that i'm going to pack one huge gun this fall when we go to the babine. i just spent an hour with your mom,and bill planning the trip, and she says she might take your place and try out her new fly rod. you'd better start training your replacement

The world according to Dan:

1. Grandpa gave his life so that people like us could continue to enjoy the freedoms the founding fathers carved out for us. I think the right to keep and bear arms should be completely protected. No, Charleton Heston isn't my president, but he is right....

2. Having said that, I also agree that with such a weighty right comes an equally weighty responsibility. There is no excuse for bullying with firearms. There is no excuse for carelessly leaving one around where a child can find it a have a tragedy. There is no decent reason to ever try to intimidate or act macho with a firearm of any type. There is sometimes a bona fide use for protection (check out the column in every edition of National Rifleman). Choice number 1 would always be no confrontation. However, I'd rather my wife shoot some ******* that tried to rape her than have her be unarmed.

3. I do have the same pet peeve Coho has WRT people who feel the need to brag that they're packing heat. That's scary to me.

4. I guess guns aren't much different than cars to me: The fact that some people are absolutely idots with them doesn't mean that I am unsafe with them. I wouldn't vote to take away your car because some other idiot got behind the wheel drunk.

WITH RIGHTS COME RESPONSIBILITIES. Ask my kids.

Seeking to intimidate someone with the fact that you are packing heat, in the absence of a threat is sufficient evidence that you are not responsible enough to be trusted with a weapon, in my opinion. It also will cause you to have your carry permit removed immediately, if that fact is brought to the attention of law enforcement officials.

I have a large number of firearms that I collect and keep for sporting purposes. I often carry for protective purposes when in bear country, typically Alaska. I sometimes carry (legally) when in the habitat of other dangerous animals. I leave it to the observer to deduce when that might be.

And don't try to harass my wife. She's a good shot, too.

I'm not one to pick fights. If something came up, I would just walk away. Injury is not worth any fishing gear.

My opinion is don't pack unless your going into a deep dark wilderness area.

Why people pack heat? Just start this thread to get your answer. Security,safety, and protection.

Matt

Come fishing for salmon in the remote BC rivers and you'll know why we pack heat.Can you say Grizzly?

Well said fisherdan. I concur 100%
Training is the key, and with training one should learn responsibility. A weapon is not a toy to be used carelessly for intimidation; it should only be drawn to protect life and limb.

Coho,
I agree with Silver Hilton
Seeking to intimidate someone with the fact that you are packing heat, in the absence of a threat is sufficient evidence that you are not responsible enough to be trusted with a weapon, in my opinion. It also will cause you to have your carry permit removed immediately, if that fact is brought to the attention of law enforcement officials.
Most people are responsible enough to know this and just like driving down the freeway there will allways be the one who cuts in front of you no turn signal almost clips your front end that will piss you off. Owning and carrying a firearm is a constitutional right and even though there is a few people who misuse their rights most of us respect and obey the laws. If you have a problem with someone who is abusing their right to carry a firearm contact the local law enforcement and give them a discription or a licence number of the person.
Ramprat

Other then Alaska (bears)where I carried a sawed-off 12g., I've never felt like I needed to pack anything other then rod and gear. I've fished amongst some A-hole Cowlitz fishermen as well as Reiter and a few other areas that draw large crowds and have never felt threatened, if and when a situation comes that I wish I had a gun, that will probably be my last day on the river.

If you ever see my gun it will be the last thing you ever see. I have carried a gun for 10 years and even my closest fishing partners dont know it. As a matter of fact I have never shown my gun to anyone. The idea of carrying a concealed weapon is just that, To keep it concealed, unless you plan to use it. I carry a weapon because I have the right to, I carry it for my personal protection, not because I think it's cool or whatever. If you dont believe in carrying one, don't!!! I have spent my time serving this great country and defending the rights and freedoms that we all enjoy and the right to bear arms is one of them. Just be glad when I'm in the store with you when it gets robbed, at least you have a chance to survive. My .02 worth.
John

FishnMagician, I have no problem with people (with permits) carrying concealed weapons, but unless your a trained cop, I seriously doubt I would be glad I'm in a store with you when it gets robbed, from everything I've read and heard, my chances of being shot greatly improve when cowboys such as yourself show up. Could be wrong, just my opinion.

Fish'n'Magician,

You are right on target, if you will excuse the phrase. Concealed carry is the ultimate ground of, don't ask, don't tell.

Think for a moment. What if we really had a freedom to carry society? What if 3 people had been armed on each of those plane flights last september?

And for the next terrorist incident, will we be asking, what if some of those passengers had been carrying a freaking pocket knife?

If you engage in arms control, you yield power to the outlaws. If you have good arms control, it's worse, you yield control to the smart, devious outlaws.

The opinion that only "trained cops" can handle a weapon safely and effectively is pretty funny. I hit a deer once about six years ago and a cop stopped to check it out. When he drew his pistol and killed the deer his "training" was evident. I still laugh when i think about it. I think id feel safer with someone that knew how to shoot. Just my opinion. Just a few months ago i got pulled over and was friendly chatting with the cop and he told me the muzzle velocity of his .40 was 3000 feet per second. What kind of training do these guys get?

I have carried mine concealed ever since I got back from Vietnam. (1968) Most of my partners over the years never even new I carried. A couple of my buddys thanked God I had one. I just do not let people know.

My 3 main points are,
1. I pack because I can.
2. Never pull it out unless you're gonna use it.
3. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stay alive.

AK - I agree with you completely on the aspect of training being important. Almost anyone can figure out how to fire a weapon , but that is only part of weapons training. You need to know when and when not to engage with your weapon. I have been in situations where I was able to walk away from trouble, thank god. If the weapon were to have been drawn the outcome could have been alot different. You are trained that once you draw the weapon (ONLY IF YOU FEEL YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE IS IN MORTAL DANGER) you pull, evaluate , and fire. All shootings go to a grand jury to decide whether it was justified or not. That being said, Again pull ONLY IF YOU FEEL YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE IS IN MORTAL DANGER . Along with the right to carry, comes the heavy responsibility that others here have stated.
John

Is where we are that far from where we have come from??

Some thoughts to ponder...

**An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

**A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

**Glock: The original point and click interface.

**Gun control is not about guns, it's about control.

**If guns are outlawed, can we use swords? or sticks? or rocks? or our hands?

**If guns cause crime then pencils cause misspelled words.

**Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

**If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

**Those who trade liberty for security, have neither.

**The United States Constitution(c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

**What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand.

**The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

**64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

**Guns only have two enemies; rust and liberals.

**Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.

**You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

**Assault is a behavior, not a device.

**Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

**If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

**Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

**You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

**Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more.

**When you remove the peoples right to bear arms, you create slaves.

**The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

** "...a government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

On a local river 3 years ago I walked into a hole by myself in the dark. Soon after I arrived a guy was in my face asking what I was doing in his hole.It took me a moment to answer this fools question.I don't think he liked the answer.But he was smart enough not to continue.This was a day I was glad to be packing.

I used to carry a .38 with me because I used to hitchhike back to my rig after the float was over. You know, back in the days that you could leave your boat unattended with all your gear in it and it would still be there when you returned.

One day, someone stopped to pick me up, and as I was getting into their truck, the gun fell out of the holster onto the pavement. I couldn't have felt worse about how that wigged them out...it was a husband and his wife. I ended up explaining why I carried a gun, handed it over to him, he gave me the ride back to my rig and I never carried one again. It's now stored away in a box.

People are inherently good, I like to think. Why freak em out?


diana

I usally carry a .44 mag with me because Washington fish are So Much Bigger than Oregon fish I have to shoot them to land them!
Isn't that right Mr. Jackson! See ya next month.

P.S Can I park my trailer at your place for a couple of days? Just until I can get a permit to haul it back home, Thanks DJ!

I see your points Dogfish, Coot22, and everybody else, but I still don't think I would feel safe fishing next to certain people with a concealed weapon in their possession. Most of you guys and gals I'm sure are careful and wouldn't pull it unless you absolutely needed to. (BTW, didn't know you were an officer, Dogfish?)

Once again, just in my own opinion, I believe it would be safer to leave the gun at home unless you're going into the backwoods or a rough situation like the alleys of inner-city L.A. Taking the law into your own hands is a risky call. But, it's your decision not mine.

I would much rather spend a nice day fishing, enjoying the outdoors, and not worrying if I'll have to use my gun.

If I come back to my car and see that it's being broken into, I'll probably hide and make some kind of noise in the bushes to alert the crook that somebody's watching. It's better than confronting them with the gun and having an outcome like the ending of so many tragic movies. If an enraged drunk tries to start conflict with me, I'll walk away. If he wants to jump me, I'm sure that my fellow anglers would come to assist me.

Has anybody ever thought about a knife instead of a gun? I know lots of people that have hunting knives strapped to their belts 24/7. Pepper mace possibly? Seems to me, they would be safer. Maybe couldn't stop that criminal who's packing heat, but at least it would be a threat to an un-armed perp.

Call me a pussy, call me whatever you want, this is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. I acknowledge your opinions. At least acknowledge mine.

i always pack heat in the winter.my 44 and my 9.the 44 has 3 burners and my 9 has 1.makes for a better fishing trip on them cold days. scott

A couple of years ago I was fishing a quiet strech of the Bella Coola river in British Columbia After a hours fishing and landing several salmon,I started back wading chest deep along the shore line of a small island. I came to a deep spot so I climbed out on the bank .several steps later I came on two salmon carcases;one was freshly eaten to the bones ,the other had deep claw marks on its back.Two steps further I found a large bed down area still warm and smelling of grizzley.
I had been fishing for an hour within fifty yards of a large male grizzley. Normally I would have been packing a 12 guage magnum bear stick but on this occasion I had left it behind .
Say what you like but you feel a lot more relaxed if your alone in bear country when your packing something with enough stopping power.

i believe in gun control also, that's why i use 2 hands

I thought that I could stay out of this, but, I just can't.

Coho- you are way off base in your thinking. In the Law Enforcement community we have a saying, "there is always someone out there that can kick your ars." We believe that the best fight is no fight. We don't want to find out if the next guy we contact is the one that will mop the floor with us. Nothing "wussy" about it. You sound like you think you can take care of yourself with just your bare hands. If you are a skilled fighter then my hat is off to you. The problem is when you bring your fists to a gun fight. You are foolish to believe that you will have the opportunity to control every situation. The Crack Head that approaches you and puts a gun to your head for dope money isn't really in the frame of mind to negotiate with you. In this situation, you don't really have a say in the matter if you're not packing. He chooses whether you live or die. I'm not picking on you, but, one day you may wish that you excercised your right to carry a handgun. (Hope that day never comes)

Krome Brite- I'm still trying to figure you out. As far as I can tell, you seem to thing that other people will bail you out of a situation if you get in one. All I can say is that there is nobody better to rely on but yourself. Your fellow fishermen won't always be there for you.

For the rest of you- I am very impressed and relieved at what I've read. It sounds like most of you are squared away in your thinking and I wouldn't hesitate to fish next to you on a river.
You are right on the money when you say to walk away. Nothing is worth it. It also sounds like most of you will also make the right descision when forced to draw your weapon. After all, it will be after he(badguy) has drawn his weapon first right? Otherwise there is no justification for it. The jury won't believe you.

A heads up- A concealed weapon is just that, a "concealed" weapon. If you think that you are getting away with leaving your weapon exposed for other people to tremble over, then it isn't concealed. If your jacket isn't long enough to cover that weapon then tough, should have purchased a longer jacket. That is part of the responsibility of owning a handgun and following the guidelines of the permit to carry one. If that jacket was never really long enough to reasonably conceal the gun, then the judge won't buy your excuse. In a perfect situation, we should be able to look at each other and not be able to tell if each other is packing.

Point to ponder- Excluding wildlife, There is only two situations to draw your weapon. 1) to protect your own life and 2) to protect anothers life from imminent danger. Here is a scenario that we should all think about...I am Joe citizen fishing next to 2 idiots that descide to start verbally arguing. The argument becomes way more heated then it should and idiot #1 pulls a gun on idiot #2 and points it at him. As a citizen, what are your options? Let me hear them. This scenario is directed at those of you that think it would be wonderful to pull your gun out first in a verbal confrontation.
I picked this scenario because it hits so close to home with most of us, and it may be the scenario that has the better odds of rearing it's ugly head. Jack

If you're a bankie, encounters with vicious dogs are a real possibility. A fishing partner was bitten by a free roaming doberman, and he drew his handgun, as the dog threatened to come back for seconds. I have no qualms about fishing, hiking, or camping with companions who carry concealed firearms; just means I don't have to.

I thought I'd avoid this thread but then had a moment of weakness...

People have personality traits that express themselves in what they do, just like the thread of 'Fish like you drive'. I've met idiots who were more likely to be confrontational when they packed a gun to back them up. I know a lot more people who carry when they know they will be in a high risk situation; i.e., Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots. So the real question is how do we keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys and jerks without infringing on the rights of honest citizens? Enforcing the laws on the books is a good start.

Personally I do not even own a handgun now having sold my Springfield P9, but I do take a shotgun when camping in remote road access area. I don't take one backpacking or going to high use campground, I don't see the need.

Thought that I could just let this one pass, but I've just got to put my .02 in. I pack a Smith&Wesson .45 everywhere I go......Especially fishing. I carry my .45 concealed and about99% of the time, nobody has any idea that I'm packing. I pack for a couple of reasons, first and foremost, I fish alone most of the time. Not only do i fish alone, but most of the areas I fish are somewhat remote. I was fishing for Summer runs on a Local river last summer, it was about 3:00 AM and I was all by myself, in the middle of nowhere with nothing around...... Not even my .45, I had forgotten to strap it on that day. All of a sudden, I hear something behind me go snap. I wirl round and what do I see but a great big cat standing about thirty feet behind me! Luckily, that cat ran off as soon as I whirled around on him, but you can imagine how badly I'd have liked to have been packing that day. I was so freaked out that hiked all the way back to the truck and went home...... I never even wet a line! So I'd say that cougars are a pretty damn good reason to pack a gun. I'd also say that people who think that they're tough guys and that only wussies would ever pack guns and that if anyone ever gave them trouble they'd just fight it out, well people like that are the other reason I pack a gun.

The reason I brought this up in the first place should have been stated before many of us made acusations-me included.

I overheard a conversation-I think it was Idiot 1 and Idiot 2 as you are talking of Jack-The young hot shot made a statement-Im not scared of anybody--I Pack on the river" That set me back, I thought this guy is carrying a gun for the wrong reason--how many of him are out there? Thinking if anyone pisses me off Im pulling my gun out and by the sounds of it--if its pulled you better shoot and not sit on the pot right? For what, a guy low holed you side drifing 300yrds down from you and the heated arguement turned ugly. Damn right you better use it-cause the guy you pulled it on you have just threatned him with his life and he is gonna throw that gun in the river and go Tie Domi on your arse--but you will still walk away more than likely with a lesson learned. I should have killed him.

By listening to him, he thought I have a gun now and there aint no one gonna f with me. I have Power--he was boasting about it, eh

I am far from the type of person that looks--seeks any type of confrontation, but I can clearly see that if for any reason that I am faced with it--- I will be the wuss--(Hey I just like that word) swallow my pride and back down. Only for the reason that the guy has a gun. All fisherman should make sure not to leave home without it.

Holly cow!

You guys are incredible. When was the last time, if EVER you heard of a man being shot on the river for arguing aver something. It just doesn't happen. I know a guy who was fishing on the wilson in summer time years ago and he had a good reason why you should pack a gun. He had a guy approach him while fishing and ask if he would ber interested in a BJ. THATS RIGHT,"BJ" now if you had a gun you mught be able to let this *** know you weren't interested.Or maybe you just like to see HIS gun.

You never know when you may need to have a weapon on board, its your "right to bear arms" and should not be taken away by some guy who chooses not to pack.

Never had to pull mine, but a close friend of mine got robbed a gunpoint in beaverton at a drive thru, while he had his 7 year old boy in car. Would have been nice to grease that goon when he was running away with you money!

Kevin Lund- You are another person who is foolish to believe that a verbal confrontation turned into a gunfight couldn't happen on the river. I've seen the armpit of humanity and I am here to tell you that anything can happen. If you people refuse to believe that, then you are future victims. As for "greasing" somebody as they are running away with your money....You fail. Badguy is no longer considered a threat if he is running away from you. A grade of F for descision making. You could be charged both in criminal and civil for those actions.

People, I'm only posting to give you a reality check. For evey story you have that didn't turn out to be gunplay, I have several that did. You have no idea how many dirtbags there are out there. You would be shocked to know who lives around the corner from you. Burglars, Robbers, Rapists, sex offenders(many), and typical low-life scum drug users(many). Hey, not my choice, just reality. That is why officers tell you to lock up, leave lights on, put cars in your garages, be aware of your surroundings, don't leave your car running unattended while you're inside of a business getting a coffee(pet peeve). Get my drift?

On a personal note- I pack probably 50% of the time while I am on a river, and probably 25% of the time around town. So, I am not a gun freak who always has to have one with him all of the time. I'm not saying that those of you that pack 100% of the time are freaks. It just may be that you are 50% smarter then me on the rivers and 75% smarter around town. I probably should carry it 100% of the time (just being honest).

Wow, I didn't realize so many people packed when they go fishing. The only gun I've seen on a river was a guy who was putting on his strap at his car while gearing up. In my opinion I don't think it's necessary, except mabey in Alaska for grizzlies. There are no animals here in Washington that I feel I need to pack for. Cougars and black bears are seen often, but it's very rare that they will ever attack.

Being attcked by another person is even less likely. The only time anyone would pull out their gun on a person would be if the "bad guy" did it first, right? I've never been in this type of situation before, but if someone has a gun pointed at you I doubt they will just let you reach for yours. Seems like going for your gun would just increase one's chances of getting shot. If some lowlife ever approaches me on the river, I will do my best to aviod it, but I would take an ass whoopin' way before I would ever use a gun. Whats wrong with just carrying mace or a knife?

I'm not totally against guns or anything. Most people here seem to be responsible and know when it's appropriate to use a gun. I would feel safe fishing next to any of you, since I probably wouldn't even know you were packing. In my opinion though, I don't think it's neccessary to pack just to go fighing. If I ever saw a gun pulled on me or someone else on the river, I would quit fishing altogether.

Jack, can you answer a question for me.
I recently moved from Oregon to Washington. Do I need a Washington Concealed liscense? If so, can I still go from state to state and conceal legally?

Thanks

Fool

Jet-
The answer is that you need one for both states. as soon as you cross the bridge to WA you cannot carry concealed w/o a WA permit.
Still-
You use the words "very rare" and "less likely" . I choose to be prepared for those times. I will probably never have to use my gun but what if ??????? If you think it cannot happen to you, you are living in a fantasy world. Someone,somewhere, in the time it took me to write this post was fatally assaulted. Just a thought................
john

I dont think that people that pack heat are just packing it for protection I was on my way to the yakima river last summer to do a little bug fishing, my friend was following me over and he had his dog with him, some how about 3/4 the way there the dog jumps out of the back of my buds truck going about 55mph you think it would have killed it but it didn't and its a danm good thing I had my Glock under the seat cause the dog was beyond repair but still very much alive and in pain. So if you ask me packing heat can be very usefull in many ways.
----------------------------
I

Is there such a thing as a Concealed Permit for all 50 states? If so, where to get it?

Fool

People who pack guns must be trying to make up for the size of there manlyhood. No reason to carry unless you live a life of paranoia. Absolutely no reason to pack a gun. Most guys don't have the -uts to pull the trigger anyway. (I'm sure they'll be some of you that'll say they will (yeah right ) grow up boys. Men don't need to pack. The Duck

Jet, what Fish'n said is correct. Hurry up and get that paperwork in, an arrest for that is a pain if you know what I mean. Jack

DM-Good thing Glocks are high capacity. That way you can make sure you save a couple to put between your moron "bud's" eyes for killing his dog by driving around with it unsecured in the back of his truck.

Some people should not be allowed to own dogs.

Hey Duck,
Have you seen Deliverence? I'm not sqealin for nobody! You attitude may bite you in the a$$ someday.

Yes, in some cases a gun can be very usefull. On the river however is not one of those cases. Of all the poeple that go fishing each yaer, how many times has someone been mauled or shot(not counting Alaska). It doesn't happen. The only incident I have ever heard of was the recent one in Florida where someone was killed during an arguement over a fishing spot or something. One incident out of millions of fishing trips doesn't justify carrying a gun on the river. I don't know if I have ever heard of a cougar or another animal in the lower 48 attacking a fisherman either.

My fists or mace is all the protection I'll ever need on the water. Whats the world coming to when one needs a gun to go fishing.

A long time ago on a similar thread I voiced my opinion on this subject so there is no need now to give it again. With that being said, I must say that I am amazed of the amount of fishermen out there that are carrying.

This is a true story; About 2 years ago, a friend and I had walked into the Blue Creek in late February or early March to fish for steelhead. We were there the day before and we had the hole all to ourselves, except for a huge seal that was working on the steelhead. He was even going right up inside the creek chasing fish.

The next day, we went back and my friend brought a "present" with him to give to Mr. Seal. My friend was really shy about giving Mr. Seal "his present" because there were three other fishermen also there fishing that day. None of us knew each other. Just before we left fishing that morning, my friend attempted to deliver his "present" to Mr. Seal.

Mr. Seal didn't want "his present" and hauled his little butt up river in a flash. As we were walking out, we heard two "different" distinct sounding gun shots about 2 minutes apart from the area that we had just left. One sounded like a 32 and the other shot sounded like a 45. Who would have ever though that 2 out of those 3 other people left fishing were packing guns.

Apparently, everybody was waiting for the other guy to give Mr. Seal his "present". The moral of this story...we heard latter, that Mr. Seal got to open up his "present" and it fit him really well!

I always keep my biggest weapon concealed when I am out fishing...It's called "my mind"! It can be far more dangerous then any gun and I always keep it loaded and cocked at all times!

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Everyone is sitting around,trying to come up with good reasons to carry on the river..... You know, it's really kind of a mute point, because fortunately, we live in a country where a good reason for carrying isn't required. If you dont like the fact that people are carrying on the river, then stop fishing..... Simple as that. Carying a weapon is not a priviledge, it is a right afforded to us by the United States constitution. All of you guys can argue about carrying on the river all you want..... It doesn't really matter if there is no good reason to pack yur gun on the river, We as U.S. citezens have the legal right to carry, and that's reason enough.

Jett'infool, someday someone Will take your gun away and pistol slap you and your attitude. Maybee you should start calling for your mama now.

LittleZoZo

You're absolutely right!

It's a right worth dying for! Many of our grandfathers and their fathers have already done so! I just prefer to use my "mind" most of the time"! If you or I misuse our "right" to use a gun, then our Constitution also has given us a way to fix that problem too, agree?

Isn't that what so many of our forefathers died for?

Do we each need to carry heat when each of us are fishing for our personal protection? That also is a "right" that each "American" can choose to do! Make your own choice, and enjoy the rest of your life!

If given a choice, I will always use my best weapon first (my mind)! If that doesn't work, then there is always the weapons of steel, be it gun, knife, or brass nuckels, or yes, even my shoes!
There is always tomorrow, right?

I am finished commenting on this thread!

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Cowlitzfisheran: Yeah, I'm pretty much done with this one too. Good luck on the river!

BLKblank
I am with you there he is a real moron and shouldnt have animals

Another internet tough guy

quick!, eveyone grab a tree, there are a $hit load of tree hugers out here tonight. you had better not show up at a gun fight with a knife.

"CAN'T BEAT THE HEAT"

Coot and LZZ, Amen on your opinions for carrying when in dangerous 'wildlife' areas. To all the rest of you--[Bleeeeep!] your opinions, [Bleeeeep!] you, and above all [Bleeeeep!] The Constitution. Let's overthrow the f*cking government. HEY, those of you that are getting steamed up right about now, realize that I AM KIDDING! I read and respect your opinions and I made my own judgements that I am sticking to. I have my own opinions and I am entitled to have them...Alright, I know I'm done, how about this thread? Is it about done?!

Oh and [Bleeeeep!] you KL if that comment was directed at me! B*tch! :p

ZOZO...

You pack a 45 to fish in Washington? That's outrageous! It's inexcusable. Why, there's no need for anything larger than 44 down here.

Fisher Dan, I agree with you on one point, "there is no need to carry anything larger than a .45 down here" But some of us live up "Here" and thus require something alittle bigger than a .45 to properly land our fish. Sure the futher south you go, say Oregon, a BB gun is enough fire power to land any fish, isn't that right DJ?
I do carry my shotgun with me alot but it's not for protection it's for Mergansers!

better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, all though i believe in conceled weapons 100% if done leaglely, for those of you who think the second ammendment gives you the righy to bare arms you better go back a read a little closer, the first sentance states a well regulated militia, how many of you belong to a well regulated militia? its not a constittional right but a privalage so don't abuse it, use common sence and play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about just my 02 worth

Doug, what part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" do you not understand???

maybe you should read it again...

I carry on the river, and sure it's for protection from people (there are some real crazies out there), but mostly it's for the hunting. Not that I'd hesitate if my life was threatened.

You see down in Oregon we've still got furbearer seasons. Winter time I always have a little .22 Ruger. Mostly use it to pop nutria or the odd emu on the way down. ADC at it's best. Eastern Oregon has it's share of rattlesnakes and coyotes too. I can think of a couple occasions I've used a gun for my own protection too. An incident with a cougar really stands out. If I hadn't been packing, I wouldn't be here now.

Oh, there's ALWAYS a shotgun in the DB during duck/goose season too.

How's that for a motive!

I too carry gun on the river. In fact, after my experiences Ii'm REALLY packing. I ended up having a custom cataraft frame built by Osprey. It sits 2 up front, me in midle, and one raised iin th rear of cat as taiilgunner. I have a custom pedestal mount, an M60 mounted on pedestal, and extra ammo cans on both sides of tail gunner. See, this way noone harrases me while Ii'm floating. We can demolish a whole heard of elk/deer on the riverbank (talk abou a killer BBQ guys) and I can give a couple quick warning shots across bow of boat I'm about to lowhole. Gues how many of thse boats I lowhole that trashtalk me?

LOL. Ok, I'm kidding (Hey OS, call me, we have a new cat to make LOL). I nver pack heat. Never had a gun pulled oon me, nor have I ever seen one pulled either. Have I thought about it? More and more each time I go fishing. It's went from a "How's the fishing?" greeting as you pass another boat to just a pure glare o hatred between boats. Just don't get it anymore. Plus, I agree that if somone is to be breaking into my auto when I show up, it's best to be prepared then to be dead. I know my filet knife isn't a match for a 9mm.

HMMMM, maybe to get myself a BAR50 or an M60. LOL

stiffler not looking for a arguement, i believe 100% in being able to carry, its the wording that is in question (well regulated militia) hec the N.F.L. is regulated but have a set of written guide lines, just wondering to what extent this means,so what is well regulated? maybe the way i stated that didn't come accross right,doug

Damn, I specifically stayed out of this thread until today and I find that G-MAN hacking on me not once but TWICE.

G-MAN Slam #1: No, keep your cotton-picking trailer outta my property or I'll lay my signature move on yo azz (the "Tree Hugger Ribcage Crush")

G-MAN Slam #2: Don't MAKE me whip out the sturgeon video on you. Four gators, all around 9' in length. You're gonna be pumping BB's into those girls for days. Just like a DAWG to be under-equipped for the job. You all know about bringing undersized sticks in to get the job done, though.

Oh, my opinion on the gun thing? If you feel like you need to pack heat, keep it to yourself. Don't show up looking like a old West throwback with the gun belt down around your azzhole, because you're just looking for trouble. If you don't wanna pack heat, bring mace or some other deterrant. However, take a look at this thread and know that others are probably packing.

There are nearly as many azzholes with guns as there are bizatches who cry about it. I'm somewhere in between. And for the person a page ago who said that people pack heat to make up for poor penis size? Well, maybe that's why I DON'T pack heat. Or do I?

You dont need a handgun when you order your Willie with the protection package

All I can say is I want to be first in line to be the "Bow Gunner" on QuickStick's boat!

"Man the 60 Parker, we're going fishin'!"

"Get some! Get some! You want some, too? Get some!"

"Hey Parker, how can you shoot women and children?"

"Easy! Just don't lead them as much!!!"

"Get some! Get some!"

Parker....LOL! Great movie reference!

-Coot

Yeah, well the Coastguard buzzed us once a few weeks ago with their Emergency Response Team boat out at Pt. Defiance. They had two M60's. Gotta love a belt fed weapon, but how do I fit it in my waistband?

Howdy Ya'll!

DogFish, you hit the nail on the head! I am active duty army, been so for awhile. I carry a "firearm" (civilian term) or what we call a weapon for awhile also, both on and off duty. Yes, "Plan for the worst, hope for the best" and you only increase your odds of living a full life! The world is full of tweakers! I've had my share of run in's also. Anyway, I am hoping that I may ask you a question on the law's of carrying a "firearm" while fishing or hiking? You mentioned that you are former law-enforcement, maybe you would know? Thanks for any help!

God bless the United States of America, all of our troops on deployment, all americans that do their part and God Bless the NRA!

Qwiksticks,
I'm f***ing rolling!LoL!
I gotta couple of those at work to include a mountable 40mm belt fed grenade launcher! I'm looking at my boat right now, gears are turning...Yea Baby!!! get the welder out!

As you can tell from my moniker, I always carry my weapon. I am also a black belt in kung-fu and train and referree kickboxing and muay tai so a fist fight is rarely a problem...HOWEVER, some salient points need to be made.
1) you will never know I have a weapon unless you are a threat to me or my family.
2) I have had my life threatened by tweakers and I never know when I may run into them.
3) If posessing the tools to fight or kill propagated violence, all of my blackbelt friends would be dead or in jail but you rarely hear of a martial artist beating the hell out of someone, even in self defense.
4) After spending years testing hollowpoint bullets I know that my sidearm is the cleanest and most humane way to end an unavoidable hostile situation.
5) I do belong to a well regulated militia called the citizenry of the U.S.
6) My right to carry was granted by my creator and GUARANTEED by the constitution

Packin heat is our right! We all have reasons. I do it for the drive there. I might be going 5 hours or so to fish stop in small towns,reststops or along roads. I travel alone sometimes and do not trust all the weird people in the world. Sometimes I travel with my kids and fell a need to protect our lives. Does that mean I wave a gun. NO! Does it mean you will ever see it? I have never pulled it and It has over 4000 rounds through it. Guns are not bad. Its the person behind it. I also pack it when on the river just because I will not leave it in my rig while on the river. People get break into rigs all the time and I don't want to loose a gun, a stereo is bad enough. The people on the water are the least of our problems. But there are many non fishers out there. Believe it or Not!

Oh sure, Dave Jackson is gonna show us a picture of a Washington caught sturgeon! Probably was out in Clancey's boat!

Remember you all from Dave's neighborhood, pack something bigger than a .45 cal to F4, because you might hook up on a Washington Fish!

If I can't park my Trailerhouse at your place Dave I'll park it at RT's or better yet at Jett'in Fool's. He's a Budweiser rep so I can use all the empty cases for skirt'n around my trailer!

Anyway, I hear Milwaukie is already full up with trailer houses

instead of packing heat--pack a bowl

then head to your favorite fishing hole

Perhaps a better alternative.

(not that I know anything about it, but college days were not all studying--who am I kidding--what studying-- )

I've been fishing in Washington now for about 30 years of the 34 years of my life and thankfully I have never been in a situation where a firearm was needed. Sometimes I'm a little jittery during the summer while stalking steelhead on the upper reaches of the Sky in cougar country, but no incidents so far. In fact the only heat I pack in Washington is in my shorts after having mexican the night before My friends usually don't walk behind me unless my waders are on.

Alaska different ballgame. Been approached by more than one brown bear out in the middle of nowhere and I was very glad to have a shorty full of buckshot & slugs, just in case.

BD

Why would I pack heat? 1. Previous job had many unpleasant people who would dearly love to find me alone in the woods. 2. I sometimes fish with a 10 year and 12 year old girls. I will protect them from any two or fourlegged animal that attempts to harm them. 3. Drunks who think they can team up and kick the "big" guys butt. 4. Animals who may think I am a tasty dinner. Does this make me a wuss? Or do I pull my gun for any reason at all. Nope, 99% of people who fish by me never will know or see my gun. In the eight years I have carried my gun fishing, I have never pulled it. Have I been glad I had it, heck yeah. Cougar stalking once. Am I a wuss? Ask the last guy I knocked on his butt for picking a fight with me. Do I need a gun for intimidation. I am 6'7" tall and weigh 350lbs, don't think so. But I believe everyone has the right to free speach, as long as they don't affect my right to keep and bear arms.

To all of you who like to pack. Watch out everyone is out to get you. They're hideing and ready to jump out and get you. It must be tough liveing in a world of paranoia and so scared that you fill the need to pack. I don't pack and never will. In my 50 plus years of life I've never had the need for one. Never got myself into a situation where I couldn't fight my way out of.
A person on another board said "men like to pack heat to compensate for the size of there penis.
If you need to pack heat then stay at home.
That's all we need is a bunch guys carrying guns around. Trust me ,they'll cause more trouble then
to stop trouble. Real men don't pack. The Duck

Duck- Are you an idiot????? You must be to make a statment as incredibly uneducated as that. The majority of people who carry will never let you know they are. WOW.........I respect you not wanting to carry, But you need to respect the rights of others who wish to. There are enough dumb asses out there, Dont be one of them.
John

......And the beat goes on ......

Without resorting to name-calling, which truly shows the small size of one's penis, I would like to make one last comment. To Duck--Agreed. Finally someone with the same, or very similar thoughts as mine.

I agree with Jack.....the beat goes on.........I am done commenting on this subject, I respect the opinion of others I just wish others would respect the opinions that other people have. No sense in arguing over an issue that will always have 2 sides...... :p :p :p Go outside and enjoy the sun I know I am.
JB

Fish'n Magician, first what kind of question is that. Did you expect me to say yes? I am also college educated. Son you should show some respect for your elders. I've been around longer and know a lot more to life then your feeble mind. A REAL MAN (The Duck)

The term "well regulated" does not have the same meaning today as when the second amendment was added to the constitution.

The term means well armed.It does not refer to governmental oversight.

Since Big Jim brought this back to the top, I would like to post something here and get your comments. So that you know, I would consider it wonderful if handguns were banned in the US. I am a member of Handgun Control Inc. and support the Brady bill. Now, I am also realistic enough to understand that this particular genie (handgun ownership) is so far out of the bottle that all the kings horses... can not put it back in. I can tell you that I lived for several years in a country where handgun ownership was illegal - even the police did not pack and it was a real eye opener. Equally as violent, but far less fatal!

Here's my idea - make the commission of a felony with a handgun an automatic additional 5 yr. sentence. The 5 yr. portion would have no parole capability. If the handgun is unregistered, it becomes an automatic 10 yr. additional sentence. If you are caught with an unregistered handgun, even without the commission of a felony (traffic stop, shoplifting, etc.) there would be an automatic 5 year non-parole term. All of the above would count as a strike in the three strikes law. Handguns would be classified as any firearm that could be concealed on a person and would include sawed off shotguns,etc.

If you disagree with the above based upon 2nd Amendment bases, fair enough, but I don't think that adds anything to the debate. Your position is well known and very effectively presented elsewhere. I would like to get ideas from the folks that support the 2nd Amendment as to how these proposals would affect you, the law abiding carrier.

Let the games begin!!!

eddie,
would not effect me at all because im not a criminal and i would like to see anyone convicted of a violent crime do more time, but we all know that wont happen.
heck there putting paroled sex offenders in your local motel six.
hey while were at it lets ban alcohol and cigarettes and abortion and on and on and on.
i believe in personal freedom and think others should keep their noses out of other peoples buisness.
you know peta doesnt think you should fish should they be able to tell you what to do.
its funny everyone wants to tell everyone else what to do but knowone better damn well get in the way of their personal lives.
funny huh?

I think there are very few people who would disagree with the additional five years for a felony with a gun.

A ten year sentence for posessing an unregistered handgun? Just say NO to gun registration.If it was ten years for posessing a stolen weapon that would be different.

Why not drop the registered and insert stolen,anyway?

Five years for posessing an unregistered handgun? My god man, are you serious? So if my grandad gave me an old govt pistol and i didnt run and go tell the police i had it i would be deserving of five years in prison? This is how it affects me. The govt has NO right to know what guns i have or if i have any at all. I am not a criminal, i am a free citizen. The reason we need this right to own guns and not have them registered is so the govt never takes the power away from the people, and does its job, serves the people. That may sound a little radical to some of you leftists, but its reality.

I guess I'm the one who does not understand. Why would anyone be against registration of handguns? If you really believe that registration of handguns will lead the Government to want to confiscate your weapons, you live in a scary world that I can't comprehend. I mean, My God, the Feds have tactical and strategic nuclear weapons, what effect will your guns, registered or not, have on a Government that is truly willing to subjugate their people? The reason that I look at registration as an important issue is that criminals will not want to register their guns (don't want to do the background check) and there are still far too many places for a criminal to buy a gun that is not stolen (non-professional gun dealers at gun shows for instance). I would like to see the 2nd Amendment folks put their money where their mouth is. Tell me just exactly what existing law or laws will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Tell me, would you as a gun owner be prepared to accept responsibility for the damage that a stolen gun of yours is involved with if it could be shown that you were careless in the storage of the gun? Just where do your rights infringe on mine? If my "inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are being abridged due to unlawful conduct by gun owners, do I have redress? And remember, not registering your guns is against the law. I'm looking for some kind of common ground. We will never be rid of guns in our society. As I said before, the genie is out of the bottle. But isn't there a way to find some middle ground that will protect legal gun owners and those of us who do not choose to own guns and want to keep them out of the hands of criminals?

More people die in car accidents than gun related deaths. Do they try to outlaw cars???? NO!
Remember, guns do not kill people, people kill people.

Well Eddie,you said it yourself.Criminals will not want to register their weapons.So what do you think the purpose of registration is if it is not aimed at criminals?There is nothing paranoid about the assumption that registration is about the confiscation of firearms from the general,law abiding,public.It's a very rational assumption,given the existence of groups like HCI that so actively push for it.

If you disagree,I would like to hear your opinion on what the purpose of registration is.You've failed to state that so far.

I don't believe that laws will ever eliminate crime.I am not prepared to surrender my ability to effectively defend myself in order to force criminals to behave themselves.They won't.The answer is not to push for more gun laws, laws that law abiding folks obey and criminals break.You can't legislate morality,remember?

No,if someone breaks into my house,kills my dog,beats the alarms system(or just ignores it)and steals one of my firearms,I don't think I should have the cops show up looking for a way to put me in jail because I didn't have a 1000 dollar safe(even though I do have a safe) and let the thief go free.

As far as common ground,it's there for you.Drop the registration scheme and go after the guy who would steal my firearms,not me.

Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

Steelie bum,
?????????

Leadslinger - The case (in my mind) is simple for registration. Because guns are used in the commission of crimes, because guns can and are stolen from law abiding citizens, the government (we, the people) have the right to know to whom the guns belong. You are correct, a lot (my guess is the vast majority) of criminal guns are non-registered. A smaller subset of those are stolen. That is why I make a simple proposal:

Automatic 5 yr. non-parole eligible sentence for a felony committed with a handgun (registered).
Automatic 10 yr. non-parole eligible sentence for a felony committed with an unregistered or stolen handgun.
BTW - both crimes (the original felony and the gun portion) would be classified as strikes under the three strikes law.
Automatic 5 yr. non-parole eligible sentence for possession of a non-registered or stolen handgun, even if not used in the commission of a crime. Also a strike.

My goal is to not confiscate guns from law abiding citizens. As I said before, I have lived in a country (New Zealand) where handgun ownership was illegal. It certainly changes the climate. In the US, there are already too many guns out there to make such an approach work. However, using the sentencing guidelines above, there would be a very harsh penalty for those criminals who choose to use a gun and for those criminals who steal a gun. I believe that deterrence would occur with this kind of approach. Somebody earlier said that we can't legislate morality. That is true, however, the state (we, the people again) has the right and the duty to reward appropriate behavior and punish inappropriate behavior. Unless you want to live in anarchy, we have chosen to live in a nation governed by laws. I am still interested in hearing from the folks that support gun rights, what impact would these laws would have upon you if you are a law abiding owner of guns...

Throughout history, the banning of firearms by "people smarter than the average citizen" has started with registry.

Any legislation that makes a person go from a law abiding citizen to criminal with the stroke of a pen needs to be scrutinized.

There is an old saying, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" and "an unarmed citizen is a peasant". Why stop at guns? How about baseball bats, kitchen knives, Bows, Halibut spears, gaff hooks, hell even sticks and stones. Those are all weapons. Run at a cop with one and see what happens. It is impossible to stop crime unless people are afriad to commit the crime. It should be mandantory no parole for any crime. Not just a slap on the wrist. If the crime like rape or assault is done, turn the criminal over to the victims family. That would stop rape. A splintery old ball bat up the wazzu will cure any urge. For those interested look at the links below. They are from Australia, their crime rate sky rocketed after banning guns. As for registration, We are already doing it by having concealed carry permits.

There are a couple of old sayings, "an unarmed citizen is a peasant" and "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." Why stop at guns? Baseball bats, kitchen knives, bows, halibut spears, gaff hooks, hell even stickes and stones are all weapons. Run at a cop with one and see what happens. I think they should be banned too, if my gun is. As for registration, we already do it by having a concealed carry permit. Oh, even if you could ban all guns or even registar them all, you can find directions on the net to build them. So we better ban the net too. For those interested the links below are the crime rate in Australia. It went through the roof when they banned guns.
http://www.ocs.sa.gov.au/OCS_Publications_Information_Bulletins.html
http://www.ocs.sa.gov.au/OCS_Requested.html

You might think about ACTING like an elder if you expect to get treated like one. Calling people names because they choose to pack heat isn't exactly the "elderly" thing to do. "Real" elders don't need to call names to make a point.

Hey Eddie:
Then my friend, do not live in Canada.

The only reason we have an 'outbreak' of criminals with guns is quite simple:

THEY'RE PUSSIES.

It all started back when fist-fights were common. Fist-fights as in ONE ON ONE, but too many pussies made a giant collective. I think they are called gangs. These members are lazy by nature as most don't have a real job and get by by taking from others. Now add drugs into the mix where a group is already lazy by nature.

So now you have a collective of lazy, addicted criminals with guns.

Teach kids some form of CHIVALRY and this **** will start reversing itself. Until then, you will have gangsta-rappers 187'n on a mofo'n cop and actually think that **** is cool.

OK, I said that I wouldn't post on this subject again, but all you flamers have gotten the best of me, so here goes. EDDIE: You belong to Hangun Control Inc.? Shame on you! The arguement for not registering Handguns is a simple one..... We, as gun owners do not believe that it is any of the Government's business just what and how many weapons we own. This is America for crying out loud! The only reason for Handgun Control Inc. wanting to make registration of all handguns mandatory is because they know that mandatory registration is the first step to disarming the public. We might all do well to stop and remeber that just about every tyrant in history (Hitler, Stalin,Mao Tse Tung, etc.) started by first systematically disarming the people they were about to take over. If you wish not to have a firearm in your house, then that is your right. But please, dont impose your views on the rest of us. Also, you say that a gun free society would be a far less lethal one.Well if that's so, then why dont you explain the history of Northern Ireland, namely the IRA. Both Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland have very strict gun laws, but that doesn't stop the violence or the killing. You see, the IRA figured out a long time ago that they didn't need guns to kill lots and lots of people, they just started using bombs instead. Hell, they even found out that they could do MORE damage with bombs than with guns, so there goes the arguement that less guns will result in less deaths. The great men who founded our country were wiser than any of us give them credit for. They had the knowledge and the foresight to see that the only way to ensure our nations freedom and the freedom of her people was to put in that 2nd ammendment. Men have fought and died to defend the rights guaranteed in that 2nd ammendment. How dare you suggest that we put laws on the books that would make their sacrifices in vain. This isn't New Zeland, or Australia, or the U.K. This is America, and we, as Americans owe it to all those who have payed the ultimate price defending our freedoms to not give an inch when it comes to giving those freedoms up.

LittleZoZo, Woof! Great post! Jack

Right on LittleZoZo!!

The first line of my original post: As an active duty military member (Navy Chief Petty Officer) for the last 17 years, I'd like to pass you folks part of "our" Oath of Enlistment/Reenlistment, "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States..."
That's a powerful statement huh? Why do we military members uphold this? We all have different reasons, but the main reason, to protect our freedom of this great country and personal rights of individuals. IMO, to attack someone's beliefs and rights is not the American way (although, by rights, your are entitled to do so). Our Founders had enough vision to place a "Right to Bear Arms" in the Constitution for a purpose- To Protect Thyself, Family and Property. Try and visualize where we would be in this day and age w/o this Constitutional Right- who knows? It's a scary thought. If you disagree, maybe we don't need an ALL VOLUNTEER FORCE to protect your rights- we won't have rights at that stage.

What you don't see on TV or hear are the sacrifices our men and women make everyday for our freedom: 6-8 month deployments away from family and loved-ones, up to 20 hour work days, physical and emotional stress, etc... If you've been there, God Bless. If you haven't, we need to trade jobs... I'll gladly head down stream for BBQ'd Springers and brewski instead of basking in the Arabian Gulf sun, not seeing land for a couple months, not having quality family time, not being able to swing a spey pattern through a tailout any day. Above all, don't forget those who have gone before us! Because of them, we are a great nation with the freedom to make choices!

My venting here is not to choose sides on packing or not to pack. Rather a reminder of what it has taken to get America to where she's at today. I may not agree with all of the Constitution, but rest assured I'll support and defend it. Please don't try and change our Constitution with control measures. Respect and abide by it. With changes, we'll eventually lose our rights. We may not see it in our lifetime, but how about your grandchildren's children? It ain't broke so don't try and fix it!

If you read my first post, you'll know that I pack in remote areas. If I get myself in a situation where I could get shot, well that's my own dumb fault- shoot me!

Ok... I vented the $3.07 version.

Downriggin'

Eddie,
How many crimes are you going to stop with gun registration?Think about that!Gun registration is only going to make criminals out of alot good people,like me.

There are already to many guns in the united states.So we have manditory gun registration.Now law enforcement knows who does and who doesn,t have a weapon?In an ideal world maybe but this is reality.They will not know any more than they did before gun registration.

I do not understand the anti gun lobby???They want to take the guns away from the VICTIMS of crime.They want to regulate the VICTIMS of the crimes.

Focus on the people that commit crimes with guns not on the inocent VICTIMS of these people.

Okay, okay I get the picture. I feel like I have f**ted in church!!! I don't understand the logic of the folks who have replied, but I do have a fair idea of the depth of feeling on this issue. I am going to bow out of this debate, I can't win and you folks will not convince me of your points either. Let's fish - let's catch, and we will agree to disagree.

Peace, out

eddie,

Alright- As I said before this is one of those "Hatfield and McCoy" (Pardon the pun) issues that will always have two sides. In order to co-exist with each other we must respect the views of each other. That does not mean thet we have to agree , just respect the opinions of others. Anyhow thanks Dan for the backup.
John

My NRA buddy just sent me this----HMMMMMMM

Subject: Doctor Alert ! - good statistics

Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171
(U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services)
Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than
gun owners.

"FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one doctor."

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets out of hand.
(As a Public Health Measure, I have withheld the statistic on Lawyers
for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical aid.)

Last time I went to my gun for back ache, it refused to talk to me about my problem. What's up with that?

FM,
LOL, That was funny.

Well thats`s it, from now on I`m going to ask to see just the nurse..