Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost.

Posted by: sardonicus

Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/06/06 12:50 AM

Andy Garcia, His Cuba Story, at Last


By Peter Davidson

Andy Garcia owns two magnificent houses -- one is in Hollywood where he works, and the other is in South Florida where he grew up. But home is in Havana, Cuba, which he fled as a young boy, and Garcia says he will never go back until his native land has been freed from Fidel Castro's tyranny and repression.

"I am opposed to the regime," the 50-year-old movie star said during a recent interview with NewsMax, adding that he would have liked to return to his homeland for a visit but "in honor of all the people who have died and suffered under the [Castro] regime, I'm not able to make that leap."

Instead, Garcia has applied his considerable skills as a filmmaker to recreate the Cuba of his memory and his imagination. The result is the recently released film "The Lost City," his opus to freedom.

The movie is his directorial debut. It's also a film he co-produced and stars in. It took Garcia 16 years to bring the film to the silver screen. "I couldn't get any support; I couldn't get financing," he said. "Selling a Cuban story to Hollywood wasn't easy."

For a long time Hollywood has been sympathetic to Cuba's longtime dictator, even though Fidel Castro gets failing marks from liberal groups.

Amnesty International cites Cuba's "illegitimate curbs on freedom of expression" and its "detention of dissidents for the peaceful expression of their beliefs." Human Rights Watch in its 2006 report condemned Castro for continuing "to enforce political conformity using criminal prosecutions, long- and short-term detentions, mob harassment, police warnings, surveillance, house arrests, travel restrictions, and politically-motivated dismissals from employment. The end result is that Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law."

Cuba has also persecuted minorities like Havana's Jews (almost all were forced to flee Cuba) and gays -- in past years hundreds were thrown into forced labor camps.

But stars like Jack Nicholson, Robert Redford and Leonardo DiCaprio have made pilgrimages to Cuba, and Nicholson went so far as to gush that Cuba is "simply a paradise."

Garcia is not quick to point to politics as the key reason for his struggle to get his story onto film.

"Can politics have an influence on someone's decision?" Garcia asks. "It's possible, but I can't say for sure because that was never articulated to me."

Then, almost as an afterthought, he said: "A lot of movies are set against a political backdrop. My favorite film last year was 'Good Night and Good Luck.'"

That movie, directed and co-written by George Clooney, recounted broadcast journalist Edward R. Murrow's effort to bring down Sen. Joseph McCarthy. It won rave reviews and six Oscar nominations. But "The Lost City" was a film Andy Garcia was determined to make, and it didn't matter to him how long it took.

"Not telling this story was never an option," he says. "I figured I could outlast everyone who said no, that if I didn't play [lead character] Fico I could always play the father, or just direct and not play anyone."

Finally, Crescent Drive Entertainment said yes, backing "The Lost City." The movie was filmed in an unusually quick 35 days in the Dominican Republic for $9.5 million -- a modest amount for a major production.

Garcia says his film recaptures "a time when Havana was the Paris of the Caribbean, a vibrant, elegant and cultured city threatened and subverted by violence and social injustice, then torn apart by a revolution that became misguided and, finally, betrayed."

The screenplay was written by famed Cuban novelist Guillermo Cabrera Infante, an exile who died in London in February 2005. It's based on his 1967 novel "Tres Triste Tigres." Co-starring Bill Murray, Dustin Hoffman and Spanish beauty Ines Sastre, the film is set in the late 1950s. It tells the story of a middle-class family ripped apart by the Cuban Revolution.

The history of the Cuban Revolution is clear-cut. Fulgencio Batista was overthrown by rebel Fidel Castro in 1959. Castro appeared to many as a hero at first, but he soon became a pawn of Russia -- an alignment that led to the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962.

In his fictional account of those days, Garcia plays Fico Fellove, the owner of a Havana nightclub. Two of his brothers become Castro supporters and join the revolution while Fico, who is apolitical, desperately tries to avoid taking sides -- only to see his life destroyed by Castro's repression and Che Guevara's ruthlessness.

About Guevara, Garcia says, "Che has been romanticized over the years, but there is a darker side to his story. People wear his T-shirt like pop art. They don't know who he is. He looks like a rock star, but he executed a lot of people without trial or defense."

"The Lost City" was a big hit at the Miami International Film Festival, where Garcia received a standing ovation from 1,600 moviegoers, mostly Cuban-Americans. Dozens of viewers told him, "This is my story."

It's Andy Garcia's story as well, and it's his wife's story, too. In 1982, Garcia married Marivi Lorido, a Cuban-American whose story parallels his own. They have four children -- Dominik, Daniella, Alessandra and Andres -- and a commitment to each other that has never wavered despite his status as a Hollywood leading man and his selection by Esquire as one of the 100 sexiest stars in film history.

"I left Cuba when I was 5 1/2, and I remember everything," he says. When he closes his eyes he can still smell his father's farm, and recall how the soil felt when he walked on it, and he can feel the cold terrazzo tile floors of the family's home and hear his grandmother playing her piano.

Garcia also remembers what happened after Castro took over: "Conditions became progressively worse for us. The government took our land. Money that was in the bank was taken, too. The state passed a law and parents lost their rights to their own children."

And he remembers the Bay of Pigs Invasion of April 17, 1961, when 1,300 armed Cuban exiles landed in an ill-fated attempt to topple the Castro regime. He remembers the strafing of Havana, hiding under his bed, and going out the next morning to collect spent shells from the anti-aircraft batteries.

Then one day in mid-1961, his mother brought him a glass of orange juice and told him, "We're going to Miami tomorrow." He sensed right then that they weren't coming back, at least not for a while, so he paid close attention to everything that was happening around him.

The next day Andy, the youngest of the three Garcia children, his brother Rene, sister Tesse, mother and paternal grandmother headed for the Havana airport. His father remained behind.

At the airport, the family had to pass through a final glass-enclosed checkpoint before being allowed to board their flight to freedom. It was called the fishbowl, and it was where everyone who was leaving Cuba was searched by Castro's thugs, the Revolutionary Guards, and anything and everything of value was taken from them.

His 12-year-old sister was wearing bangle bracelets, but they wouldn't come off over her hand, so one of the thugs picked up a pair of clippers. "I thought he was going to cut her hand off to get the bracelets," Garcia said. Instead, the thug cut the bracelets.

When they landed in Miami, they were so empty-handed that his mother had to borrow a dime to make a call on a pay phone to relatives who had already fled Castro's Cuba. The five Garcias took up residence in a single room in a motel off Collins Avenue in Miami Beach.

One month later, Garcia's father arrived in Florida and went to work for a catering company, which he later bought. He was also in the sock business, delivering socks to retailers on consignment. Every night after dinner the Garcia family would sit at the table and sort the socks, putting them on little plastic hangars. "I was pretty good at it," Garcia says proudly.

He was pretty good at Miami Beach High School, too, where he played on the basketball team and dreamed of becoming a professional athlete. But in his senior year an illness prevented him from playing so he turned to the drama department.

After graduating from high school he enrolled at Florida International University, where he continued his drama studies. From there he went to Hollywood, landing a role as a Latino gang member on TV's "Hill Street Blues."

That was in 1981. Other prominent roles followed -- he played a cocaine kingpin in 1986's "8 Million Ways to Die," one of Eliot Ness's men in 1987's "The Untouchables," and a detective in 1990's "Internal Affairs." But his career soared after he landed a starring role in "The Godfather Part III."

Along the way he studied the techniques of master filmmakers such as Sidney Lumet and Francis Ford Coppola, who directed him in "The Godfather Part III." And he reconnected with his Cuban roots, especially with the island nation's music from the '40s and '50s, producing four albums and a documentary.

In 2000, he starred in the HBO film "For Love of Country: The Arturo Sandoval Story," about the Cuban trumpeter great whose passion, like the character Garcia plays in "The Lost City," is music but whose dream is freedom.

Says Garcia, "'The Lost City' is about many things, but it is the music that runs deep in my veins. Neither blockades nor artistic repression can contain it. It is inexorable; like water, it will always get in and out."

Meanwhile, Garcia believes that Castro's tyranny will be swept away. "It breaks my heart that Cuba is not free, but I'm optimistic that one day it will be," he says.

He's certain that day will come. "Absolutely," he says. And when it does, Andy Garcia will, at long last, be able to go home.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/06/06 01:11 AM

what are you doing up this late pops? dont you know that andy garcia is a crazy hollywood type beer
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/06/06 12:32 PM

Can't argue your assesment of A. Garcia.
Btw, I have thought about your fondness for the Che personna. And you're right, I know very little about the man. So I did a bit of research and tried to learn more. Actually I was trying to find out something good about him. Damn tough assignment. Apparently on the good side, He was loyal to Fidel and the cause, the cause being the Communist Revolution.
The scales are sharply tilted to the dark side of the force, if you'll pardon the expression.
I could ramble on, but it's jello time. And I'm notorious for 'cut and paste' items. Here is one article I ran across. These folks didn't care much for Che'.

http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/06/06 01:47 PM

try to balance the reading though....if you only read books that are against him youll never get a balanced view.....just as if you only read books bashing reagan........

che was not real loyal to fidel over the long term... they had a major split and che went on to other battles and thought that fidel was on the wrong path.......

try the book "the motorcylce diaries".....it is the diaries of the man that was turned into the movie.....its about che as a young man working his way accross s. america working in lepor colonies...... it is a good movie too but doesnt deal with any politics.....just the oppression that he saw on that trip that opened his eyes and created the man who would become "che"...

at that point in his life he didnt have the nickname "che" yet......his friends clled him "fusser" .......even my most conservative friends have loved the movie......i know that you will like it.....and i swear that you wont turn pink if you watch it!!!!!!
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/06/06 02:22 PM

You are correct in that it is difficult to find an unbiased evaluation of any 'political' person. There are those who hate the person and those who love him. Finding a middle ground author is difficult.
And then again, are the "...diaries" about him as a young man? What he became later is the facet I see most. His travels thru South America, especially in the level of some of the disadvantaged, read poverty stricken, would undoubtedly uncover some tragic circumstances. Same as here, in the deep South and on the Reservations. Is he another rich kid with a guilt complex?
I know of some of the atrocities committed by the BIA and some of the Settlers and various Church societies in this country. I know little of the South American parallels. What I know of the Franciscans and the Jesuits and their methods competition for souls and the enrichment of their societies would lead to tragedies untold. The 'Church', via some noble ones have a history of supporting the Campesinos and Indian tribes, on the other hand, the 'Church' heirarchy has always supported the aristocrats or landed gentry and helped to maintain their position of dominance in ruling the various countries.
It seems there are two or three alternatives for the governance of a South American or Central American country. A military junta, a dictatorship, no matter what he might call it, as in Castro or Chavez, and an elected leader and party. The last alternative is the rarest.
Kool aid time. laugh
Posted by: Ichtyoid

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/09/06 08:43 PM

Castro has done a far better job running Cuba since 1959, than Shrub has since 2000.

The only thing Cuban Ex-Pates have to ***** about is that they were either slum landlords, slave drivers, or criminals and Castro took away all thier precious real estate and masions and gave them the boot.

F' em. I'd prefer Castro over Bush ANY DAY.
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 12:33 AM

Another self-proclaimed Dumb s I see. How many boat people do you know of trying to exit the United States dimmy. Cubans try to leave Castro's paradise all the time. Some make it, some die trying. Must really be a wonderful place. Kinda like Miami but better. Really, I don't mind your jerking around politically but that last was inane.
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 10:45 AM

Thinking of Che.. I see that t-shirts with his face are all the rage with the 15-20 year old pot head crowd. Its kinda funny. 9 out of 10 know nothing about him, or even where he was from or what he stood for.

When I was at Pike street market a couple months ago, his face was everywhere. T-shirts, posters. Whats the big deal about him all of a sudden. What could he possibly mean to any of these kids. Do they just like looking at his face or what ???
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 10:56 AM

A symbol of rebellion is the only credence I can give to the fad.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 01:26 PM

people love che as a symbol af anti-imperialism......that about covers it. you have to realize that much of the world doesnt get all their info from corporate news and have alot of reasons to like him and what he stood for.......

its amazing how far off base the sentiment of americans are towards cuba and fidel......just another case of people not wanting to know the truth and just accepting what they are told......

if cuba is so bad.....why do so many cubans love the revolution and the country???? why are just as many trying to get into the country as are trying to get out? why is cuba beating us on so many metrics? and how much better would they be without the bloquade????

id take fidel over bush any day too....and unlike so many with opinions that have no factual basis, ive been to both places and seen the problems and triumphs of each..... they both have problems and they both have strengths.

ps aunty- bush has killed over a quarter of a million humans in the last 4 years.......sorry but fidel isnt even anywhere near as evil as bush.....not even 1/100th....
and much of his so called "oppression" of cuban dissedents was in defense of cuba which is under constant attack by American terrorists who blow up hotels and spread biological weapons to induce swine failure etc........

99.9% of americans just simply have no clue what they are talking about regarding cuba
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 01:30 PM

in cuba the excesses of the rich are sacrificed to ensure the necessities of the poor

in USA- the necessities of the poor are sacrificed to ensure the excesses of the rich

which system works better......who knows because one system is constantly attacking the other to force its failure......what are we scared of? why are we scared of allowing success of another system?
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 01:47 PM

I said this before, but will repeat it.

You gotta give Fidel a few props. That dude has done it "his" way for 45 years and has taken zero crap from us. He has been abandoned by all the communists that helped him get there and still manages to keep it all togther. He has screwed the U.S over a dozen times without us being able to retailate in any fashion. I don't admire him, and I still say kids running around with Che shirts on is about funny as it gets, but gotta say he does deserve a bit of repect.

Betcha a pole in Cuba would rank him a lot higher than say a poll in this country rates Bush
Posted by: Ichtyoid

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 01:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sardonicus:
Another self-proclaimed Dumb s I see. How many boat people do you know of trying to exit the United States dimmy. Cubans try to leave Castro's paradise all the time. Some make it, some die trying. Must really be a wonderful place. Kinda like Miami but better. Really, I don't mind your jerking around politically but that last was inane.
That glass of Capitalist Kool-aid is the same flavor as it was in 1959...and it's just as artificial and stale as it was then.

By the way, There are ALOT of American Ex-Pates in Cuba, and the only Cubans *****ing about Castro are the ones that were Slum Lords, Slave drivers, & criminals that Castro gave the boot...all of them Batista's Boys. In my book, they deserve the firing squad no matter what country they originate from....Or the American corporations who lost thier precious real estate.

I know you are so busy flapping your gums that you have to close your eyes to keep up the effort, but the USA did infact hold a ticker-tape parade in New York for Castro after he took power and it wasn't until he refused to be another one of the US' client-dictators a-la Baby-Doc Duvalier*, his US support was cut off and it was then when he allied with The Warsaw Pact and siezed American interests.
evil


*Do a google search on The Dictators that have been American allies. There are some nasty ones out there, and the US supports all the nasty things they do as long as they keep spending thier country's tax money and their foriegn aid on American Military goods.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 01:58 PM

im still not sure why kids wearing che shirts is as funny as it gets...
how about kids wearing the american flag that dont support a government of the people, by the people and for the people.......
now that is ironic, and strangely enough those are the ideals that "che" fought for and the ideals that bush is fighting to erease
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 02:00 PM

couldnt agree more ichytoid- some are just allergic to history....
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 02:11 PM

A 19 year old wearing a Che shirt.. yea, thats pretty funny. Like it means what ?? " over throw the U.S" or what ??? What does a punk who is baked like a cake know about the need to over throw anything all holed up in a bedroom at mommy and daddys house. Are any of these wingnuts willing to "die" for any cause ??? It ain't the 60's when people actually acted on what they felt was right.

In the end, they are just a bunch of posers if thats the message they are sending.
Posted by: Ichtyoid

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 02:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by B-RUN STEELY:
A 19 year old wearing a Che shirt.. yea, thats pretty funny. Like it means what ?? " over throw the U.S" or what ??? What does a punk who is baked like a cake know about the need to over throw anything all holed up in a bedroom at mommy and daddys house. Are any of these wingnuts willing to "die" for any cause ??? It ain't the 60's when people actually acted on what they felt was right.

In the end, they are just a bunch of posers if thats the message they are sending.
Yeah...Because SO MANY Young Republicans enlist in the Armed Forces....
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 02:52 PM

Well, I'm a pretty well defined Lib and can say that regardless of who enlists in the Army ( I did by the way ) Any kid riding around a BMX bike in his parents subdivison with a Che shirt on that should actually be out working a job is pretty funny stuff. Kinda like the little morons who run around sporting " Major school" hats and shirts.. " Duke fan huhh ?? cool, could you tell me which state Duke is located in ??" Blank stare.. Saw a White kid with a " Grambling" hat on. " Hey, cool hat !!! wanna share your thoughts on Grambling ?? any idea where it is ?? "

Was at a Mall a few weeks back at a food court with a guy. Couple of pants falling off kids walking way aross the room. They had their hats all pointed sideways be- boppin. My buddie yells clear across the place " Hey, you guys !!! your hats are on backwards !! " Just wanted to let you know so you would not have to walk around all day looking like an idiot ".
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 02:55 PM

"if thats the message they are sending"

exactly my point- that is not the message they are sending...... that is a stereotype put upon them by our culture that has no desire to understand anything.......
that is the message that you are putting on them. when i wear a che shirt, i am not saying overthrow the usa.

his face has become a symbol of anti-imperialism......if one is against that idea, what are they for? imperialism and fascism?

all kinds of americans wear alot of things that they dont know the significance of....its just easiest to hate on things that we dont understand well....weather its "che" or "marcos" or anyone else that has been willing to put their life on the line for what they believe in.......che was a freedom fighter in the most true sense of the word....isnt that what we are suppose to believe in as americans???????
Posted by: Rory Bellows

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 03:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ichtyoid:
Castro has done a far better job running Cuba since 1959, than Shrub has since 2000.

The only thing Cuban Ex-Pates have to ***** about is that they were either slum landlords, slave drivers, or criminals and Castro took away all thier precious real estate and masions and gave them the boot.

F' em. I'd prefer Castro over Bush ANY DAY.


--------------------------------------------------
eek beathead eek beathead


Viva the Revolution!!!!

WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!!!!
hello


sleep
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 03:31 PM

"Marcos".. which one ?? the main one was probably one of the biggest tools ever. Kinda like a Jim Baker and the 700 club but in control of an island nation.

Back on topic, I don't "hate " these things. I just think its a crack up. " Free Tibet !!!" " Mean People suck !!" " Nuke gay whales for Jesus".

" Che Riviara !!! rules " " Do you know who he was ??" " Yea, he is Castros right hand man !!"

Well kid, his name is Che Guevara,, and he has been dead for over 30 years, but whats in a detail anyway. It would seem if they wabt to use him as the face of whatever it is they are using him for, they should know at least a few things about him, RECON ??
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 03:33 PM

we knew we could expect to hear from krusty the batista... what parts of the batista government would you like to see cuba go back to krusty? sardonicus? bueller? bueller? bueller?
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 03:39 PM

"marcos" is one of the leaders of the EZLN in chiapas mexico.... an indigenous mayan protection movement..... quite an interesting fellow.....this marcos is a taco bender, not a shoe hoarder laugh laugh

i know what ya mean though b-run....and i too get upset at people who dont know what they are talking about that make me look bad for supporting the same thing but for good cause.....

id rather talk any day with someone who is smart but disagrees with me than someone who agrees with me but has no clue why....
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 03:41 PM

How about just the part where they would let anyone go there, visit, check it out, maybe go fishing and have an excellent cigar and some kick ass rum, then go home ?? That would be cool.

Thinking of Bueller.. why did he marry that ugly ass Sara Jessica Parker.. Chick looks like witchy poo.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 03:46 PM

everyone can do that now except americans cuz bush changed the law to make it a $7000 fine......i have friends who have taken skidoos from key west to havanna and partied for the weekend and gone home the same way.....

most cubans that i meet had gone to school in europe or all over the place and had been to many countries to work as doctors or whatever.....it is a total lie that cubans are not allowed to leave. i snuck a 25 cigar box of cohiba esplendidos back with me(fidels favorite cigar) but i dont smoke anything that doesnt get me high so i gave em to a cigar loving friend of mine- $25 bucks there, worth about $800 here i guess....he was happy
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 04:15 PM

I think my wife would draw the line on driving a jet ski to Cuba. I get away with a lot of things and go about everywhere, but she would not support that venture. But, thats the same girl who thought my pot growing idea way back when was stupid, and looking back, I don't regrete having not done it. wink
Posted by: Rory Bellows

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 06:33 PM

Hey Lupo,

When did I say anything in regards to Batista? confused

I just think it's amazing and kinda sad really that anyone could be so woefully ignorant that they would actually suggest it would be preferable for our country (America) to be run by a communist dicatar (Castro) rather than goverened by a duly elected President of a representative republic (Bush 43) whose Constitution only allows for a finite number of years in office.


BTW--Happy Belated May-Day Comrade! laugh

beer
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/10/06 11:08 PM

Hey 'rhoid, how many expatriates? 20? a hundred? 500? I wonder how many of them have warrants pending on their return to the States.

Lupo, did those Cubans you met that had European educations say where they matriculated? Probably in Munich or Berlin with the Bader-Meinhof bunch of terrorists.

You know what's really scary is the fact that you two can say such inane things and act like you believe it. I know that the personna you assume when you hit the keyboard is probably far from reality, but still, it's pretty weird that you think the way you claim.
Poor Maximillian. He liked Mexico and look what it got him. He didn't have a clue that Boney would desert him. You guys don't have a clue as to how lucky you are to be here cutting up on line.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/11/06 01:37 AM

aunty- you right that it is not acceptable to
be openly critical of the revolution. it doesnt mean that you would automatically go to jail but it would make things hard on yourself for sure.

if you visit the country, it will be nothing like you imagine. its not paradise, and its not a hell hole. but its nothing like you think. its just run totally different than here and they have different ideas of what rights are most important.... it is opressive in ways and it is liberating in ways...

it may seem oppressive that it is an actual law that any goverment vehicle that passes up a hitchhiker, that has room to take them, can be pulled over and ticketed.... but it may also seem liberating to the poor peasant farmer that needs the ride to get to town for something.

i had the opportunity to go to different many different towns and meet many famillys, some loved it and others didnt. it is opening into a market system slowly...and it only makes it harder for them to do so with the bloquade.... they can start resteraunts or other small businesses but they are heavilly taxed.

but it is a very happy population that has alot of fun in the streets, and the kids go to night clubs and concerts just like everywhere else. i even hung out for a while with the fishermen along the malecon (boaardwalk) in havanna where you see the waves crashing over the wall.... they get some big fish right in the waterway that goes from the ocean right pass the prison where the "prisoners of concience" are held. i didnt see anything big caught though.

i did leave alot of fishing gear with the familly that i stayed with the longest.... some spools and point wilson darts and spoons and they were loving the new gear....
while i was there the big thing on tv was a boxing match between the top two cuban boxers and it was controversial because one was gay. fidel didnt want him to fight but everyone else did and everyone was glued to the tv's for the fight.
also saw the buena vista social club in concert my last night there

its a nice place, id rather live here... buts its not at all a dictatorship in the terms that people think of one
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/11/06 11:13 AM

still all that said......fidel has improved the country alot under very hard circumstances and with an international bloquade against his country. they have a higher literacy rate than we do and lower birth mortality than we do. homelessness is unheard of and they have more doctors per capita than any other country

george bush took over a country that was doing great with huge financial surpluses and is destroying the place in no time...
the surpluses are gone and the country is damn near bankrupt in very real terms, got the country mired down in foreign wars and trying desparately to pick more fights.....all the while totally ignoring the social problems of the country

if given the chance- i still think that fidel could have done a way better job leading america than bush
Posted by: Ichtyoid

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/11/06 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lupo:
still all that said......fidel has improved the country alot under very hard circumstances and with an international bloquade against his country. they have a higher literacy rate than we do and lower birth mortality than we do. homelessness is unheard of and they have more doctors per capita than any other country

george bush took over a country that was doing great with huge financial surpluses and is destroying the place in no time...
the surpluses are gone and the country is damn near bankrupt in very real terms, got the country mired down in foreign wars and trying desparately to pick more fights.....all the while totally ignoring the social problems of the country

if given the chance- i still think that fidel could have done a way better job leading america than bush
What he said.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/14/06 12:25 PM

some would say that without food and shelter-you have nothing......

the truth is that the cubans enjoy a higher standard of living than any other latino country with a capitalist system....

they do have freedom of expression...... just like here, they do not have freedom to talk about overthrowing the government...most of the people in jail were implicated in terrorist activities or trying to overthrow the govt..

they elect new leaders all the time and fidel has nowhere near the power to appoint people to positions that our president does.....

dont expect a capitalist revolution when fidel dies, he is not the president of the country, he is a figure head, and the cuban people never want to return to american and mafia control of their country. they never want 5% of the country to control 90% of the country like here in america........

the country has problems, but if you go and visit, you will understand the difference between reality and american propaganda
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/14/06 12:40 PM

there really isnt much to disagree on because im not saying that there are not human rights problems there.....

actually if you look into it....you will find that many will say the same thing tha im saying....the country has its problems and has repression (like no internet) but that it is nothing like what we hear in the USA and that the country also has huge benefits to its system.
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/14/06 12:46 PM

the places with the worst human rights problems in latino countries are the countries that have had the most american involvement like el salvador, guatemala, honduras...... our military has trained tens of thousands of soldiers who have killed millions and millions of people in central and south america......cuba is paradise compared to these countries. our country has been involved in a thousand times the human rights abuses as cuba in central america and south america.....we helped overthrow almost every single democracy down there and replaced them with dictators who we protected and armed
Posted by: lupo

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/14/06 01:01 PM

very true, both systems have their benefits.... here we may have gone to far to protect the rich and excesses (40% of home sales are second homes in america) and down there they may have gone too far to protect the poor.....

i cant wait to go back..... i want to go to the hemmingway fishing tournament (one year fidel even won.....no it wast fixed)...... cubans are in love with hemmingway, there are paintings of him everywhere and streets named after him....he is basically a hero down there.....i have some great fotos from down there but id need to get them re-sized before i can post them

the cars are incredible too.... about half the cars on the road are 58' or earlier..... now adays many people go to europe or south america to work for a while and bring back mercedes and other nice cars so there is more of a mix now so you might see a donkey cart drive by then a 58' something then a 2005 mercedes....... if anyone loves old cars, i can email them some cool car fotos from down there
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: Ah. Cuba Cuba, paradise lost. - 05/14/06 02:18 PM

Uncle Ernie was a great writer and an avid fisherman. I'll give him credit for opting to not wait for paresis to finish him off. A true Kevorkian fan he'd be, if he was still around. Lotta bad bugs floating around the Caribbean.