I AM PISSED.

I was just payed a visit from CPS (child protective services)
Turns out that I was turned in by my my kids ADD counsler.
My EXwife talked to him about our sons emotional behavior after I had concerns that it may be from the meds this guy had proscibed.
He said he didn't think it was to much to worry about. Then asked if he had access to guns. This is when exwifiepoo take a little liberty with the facts I am afraid.
Counsler asked if I had loaded guns in the house. EX says she didn't know but i had in the past. (about 14 years ago I had 2 rounds in the breach of a 12ga for about 3 minutes after hearing a disturbing noise in my front yard a couple of weeks after my truck had been cleaned out. The one and only time EVER)
The CPS guy was actualy real cool about the hole thing. I explained that I was raised with guns around my whole life and am an avid hunter and fisherman. He had talked to both of my kids at school and found them well informed about gun safety and didn't feel there was much of a problem. He told me that sense my son was the owner of three of the guns and was very much looking forward to his first hunting season this fall there was nothing wrong with him having them on display in his room as long as they were not loaded and ammo was secure from them.
So now I am feeling OK about the hole thing and telling myself that in this day and age having guns unlocked and in your kids room wasn't the best idea not so much for my kids sake but for the sake of other kids that may go into his room.
I know it may sound crazy to some of you that my kid had guns in his room and for the sake of an arguement I'll admit that even that it is perfectly leagal it may not be a good idea.
Now for the part where I get real pissed.
The cps guy gives me a copy of the complaint from the counsler:
The referent reports that they were informed that the father has "18 loaded guns in his house" The referent states that the father reportedly has loaded guns hidden at various points in the home-including SON'S BEDROOM. The referant states that the guns do not have gun locks according to the first-hand source (ie slutty fat ugly whore exwife)

Wife says she did tell counsler that I had a loaded gun in the house in the past and that there was guns all over the house in the past. (guns were in my room, my hunting and fishing room and my son's guns were in his room)

Am I over reacting or have I just been screwed. If the ex wants to make my wife a living hell in the future can this total BS be used against me????

Is there anyway of finding out what the counsler was told or what he made up in his own head.

Is this fare, should I just let it go, should I talk to a lawyer????

wtf do you think

Sounds like the EX needs to go.

These are your kids. You already have a strike against you, being a male. Time for a lawyer. Good luck.

Mf

How old are you're kids?

Achewter,

Have a drink. Relax. There's not much you can do that will make it better, and it could get worse.

Looks like CPS found out that you're cool, and that your ex is just out to do you dirt however she can. Nothing illegal or wrong about your son having his guns displayed in his own room so long as the ammo protocol is being adhered to, and it sounds like the CPS guy found out what he needed to know.

So yeah, let it go. You're a cool guy. Many of us know you're a cool guy. And now the CPS guy knows you're a cool guy. Things are lookin' up. Ignore the bitch as much as you can. Be civil. Just don't open doors for her unless it's for the opportunity to close them behind her.

Sg

Kid with the guns is 12. He has been shooting for 2 years. He has a flawless rem 742 30-06 that has been fired maybe 6 times that was just to good of a deal to pass up.( I killed my first buck with my dads identical gun.) He won't be allowed to shot it for a year or 2. He has a DU 12ga that still has the tags on it and a nylon tie threw the action so that he can't load it or cycle it. He also has a youth 20ga auto that he is learning with that he can't get at and a 30-30 that was my older brothers then mine and now his. His room is decorated like a hunting cabin with antlers, float planes, fishing rods, giant lures, bows and arrows, wildlife art worth more than his gun colection and for about 4 months and until last week the 30-06 and 12ga. He doesn't seem to mind not having them in the room and seems to be more into his compound anyway. He has great respect for his guns and I have over herd him proudly telling his friends that they were not aloud to touch them.
Like I said befor the guns were not the best choice in decorations for his room. My beef is that I was forced to let someone inspect my house and question my right to have my kids based on someone's LIES or over active imagination.

Thanks Salmo
I really don't know how much of the problem is the counsler's and how much is the X's.
Just feel I have lost a bit of my freedom and screwed over.

Wanna know what I think?

Do NOT get mixed up with people in the mental health profession. Not only are they completely nuts but they will see to it that they ruin your life if given the chance. Walk a tightrope here, Bud.

Tell you what, buy a gunsafe and lock em up for the time being since it's become a "concern."
Let everyone know how suddenly PC you are.

Wanna know what a "Mental Health Professional" can do to you and yours?

Ask anyone who's had a DUI and been ran through the wringer of the "court ordered counceling."

Irie
all guns are now locked in my safe that I had long befor any of this came around and my only hand gun is at a friends house locked in a safe. I wont take a chance on loosing my kids. Your right fighting this would be taking a chance I just won't gamble. It is part of the reason it pisses me off so much. I have everything to lose and only my pride to gain. It's BS BS BS

Care to take a guess how many future drug addicts know your son has guns at his dads house?

Never tell anyone you own them. A visitor could bring ammo into the house or take the gun and use it in a crime.

How many of the 5000 people who read this site, would you let into your home or give them your home address. Might as well use your legal name on the site.

Burglary is the closest violation you will ever feel, next to sexual assault.

There are people who want to make you responsible if your gun is used in a crime. If they can carry your safe out, its not big enough. The gun registered to you and kept at a friends house is a liability to you, since you dont control the events in your friends house. If you theoretically stored a gun at the home of someone who was rejected for a permit, you are probably going to jail.

I only have to right about the one scenario, that happens to you.

Get a second medical opinion about your son. I would change providers.
Sounds like your ex still has issues and would throw you under the bus. Since she cant be trusted with conversations, she is high risk. You cant do much except protect yourself and your rights. Calling your ex a biotch etc can be reported as third degree assault. Your ex may have thought she was doing the right thing, but the psychiatrict was told your concerns by another person. Dont send messages. He may be giving the wrong meds but its not intentional, from the Dr. standpoint, you may be the one who is trying to start a problem with your doctor or your ex or even your kid. IM sure they have seen every variety of a high maintenance father. or mother.

If you change physicians, show him a photo of the safe and tell him, its your fault that you and he do not have a healthy line of communication regarding your son. If your son is talking to this guy for therapy, make sure he has no regrets about switching.
Good luck, go slow and get a professional opinion to verify what youve been told here.

I've been telling the guys here at work, if they want to meet a REAL cun%, to divorce their wife.

The problem with allegations like this is even if they are completely false, the perception by others is that there is at least the "posibility" that they are true, and that is damaging. Especially, if the vendictive-sacked-out-psycho-slut-bitc% backs it up with a couple more bullshi% allegations in the future.

And personally, I think unless you are licking bullets the entire mental health profession is a crock of shi%.

"licking bullets"

Funny.

Sorry to hear about your problems Achewter. Hate to say it but you have been screwed by your ex-wife. Join the club. Went through enough B.S. myself for years after my divorce. Best advice here came from Salmo g, just chill. You have taken care of your guns in your posession. He!! when we were kids we all had guns in our rooms. I started hunting sparrows when I was 5 with my Daisy BB gun and then moved up thru 22s and shotguns. We even had shotguns in our cars and pickups when we were in high school so we could hut before and after school. But times have changed due to circumstances beyond our control. Gun locks and gun safes are now mandatory if you have kids at home. Good luck.

She "could" possibly make your life a living hell. I say this because I teach parenting classes (most of my parents are mandated by the court to take my class). I have heard just about everything through teaching my classes. What alot of people dont understand is that CPS doesnt just come in and take your children from you from one complaint. The process of them taking kids out of a home can actually be a long process, unless there is some immediate danger or concerns. I am not 100 percent sure what their guidleines are. Just be open and honest when they ask you things:)

Although the circumstances were different, the only time in my life that I really wanted to beat a woman like a baby seal was when we went thru the process of getting named as pre-adoption guardians for our adopted son. The CPS woman was a condescending, egotistical, judgmental, lying POS and a general road block to our gaining the guardianship. She was the supervisor of the office we had to deal with.
I ended up hiring an attorney to deal with CPS as I had enough and my head was ready to explode. Luckily, a judge agreed with our attorney, our son that wanted to live with us and gave the CPS woman a lecture.
I later found out that a few years before, she had a run in with our son's former foster parents and somehow it was our son's fault so she was determined that he would go to a group home and not be placed with us.

I got pissed off again just typing the above and it happened in '89. Good luck with your issue. I will never trust anyone, without verification, from that outfit again but at my age, it's unlikley I will have to deal with them.

Look at the bright side, Art. This is just proof that you were smart for dumping the stupid sadistic abusive fuc%ing whore.

Wow, baby! Was she a whore?

"Wow, baby! Was she a whore?" No she just plays one on T.V.

I have no idea. I'm just backin' my buddy, Art.

Dont get fresh!!!:)

They all are! Well maybe not all (I will exclude all of your wives and sisters and moms). But the rest, yes.
Hang in there Art!
A couple of weeks ago my boy had a friend over for the afternoon. His dad dropped him off. We had just got back from the rifle range. My boy proudly displayed his target. The boys dad was very cool with it which surprised me as I live in a very liberal neighborhood in Seattle. When he came in we were bs'ing in the kitchen and he noticed the rifle on the kitchen table (hard to miss). I told him we had just got back from the range and that I'd be putting it in the safe. Again he had no problem. He did say if his ex had dropped the boy off she would have bitched me out and not left the boy with us....
When the boy was first born my ex got involved with putting together a baby sitting co-op. One of the rules was no guns in the house...period. Needless to say our participation in that group ended right then.
I ramble.

you always have someones back...your a good, solid guy, baby!

I would have no fear with Sol at my back.

I have fear with him at my back! hahahaha...
he is 6 ft 4 and I'm 5 ft 4.....
I really dont fear him....I'm from Jersey, I would kick his butt!!! j/k

I would definetly talk to an attorney. An attorney charges anywhere from $200 and up just to "talk". He will give you the best advice. You need an attorney practicing in family law, specifically.

Lead Bouncer

Better check your RCW's. Assault in the 3rd degree is essentially assaulting a public servant (simplification).

Assault 4th degree is usually related to domestic violence, but speaking a word to someone is not assault unless those words are intended to goad someone into a fight.

Achewter, sorry about your issue.

Thanks for the clarification. It doesnt matter what the number is, its trouble I avoid.

Achewter, I too had a visit from CPS when my boys were little.. Seems an over zealous home day care operator noticed scrapes on one of my son's, belly, and also a burn on his forearm. When I arrived after work to pick up my sons, The CPS witch hunter asked if I was Mr.______ I said yes I am, is there a problem? She says I dont know why don't you tell me? WHAT??????
She was armed with a 35 mm camera and a spiral notebook. She said it seems that you have a habit of burning your child with a curling iron..... HUH? I said what are you talking about? She said I have taken photos of the burns on his belly and forearm, so I have the evidence.. Keeping my cool I aked what burns? (During this time my son was acting very frightened), 5 years old by the way.. which the Witch attributed to his being afraid to go home with me...Withch Hunter asked me to explain burns, and I explained that the scrape on his belly was not a burn butwas a scrape he got from climbing out of his grandpa's pick up bed the week before.. She said of course it is.. Getting angry at this point.... She asked about burn on his forearm, which had occured when he was with his mother when she was curling her hair in the bathroom three days prior, seems he climbed up on toilet and leaned against hot iron. I pointed out that these were in fact 2 separate accidents, and she smuggly replied, of course they were... Steaming now, she asked to accompany me to my home and ask more questions. Having nothing to hide, I agreed to this. We entered the house, which was a mess because the boy's mother was a slob who did little in the way of housework, (dirty dishes, unfolded laundry, unvacuumed rugs etc.)
Her first comment was "I see a typical abusive home setting" I said what are you talking about???? She says we see this all the time, messy homes and abuse go hand im hand.. She asked how I diciplined the children, and I said when time outs dontwork I spanked them with and open hand on their buttts.. Wrong answer.. she asked are there scars on their bottoms as well??? At this point I told her to get the hell out of my home, to which she replied, welll there will be a full investigation by CPS.. I said investigate all you want as I have done nothing wrong here.. Another smartass reply comes forth... "Thats what they ALL say".At the end of it alll I was found innocent of any wrongdoing by CPS, I wanted to sue also, for being drug through the mud by this self righteous biatch, not to mention the day care owner. Wife at the time said, get this, "no harm done", leave it alone. She is now EX wife, and my kids grew up being productive members of society. I feel your pain, but it is probably best just to let it all pass. It sucks having your name soiled by these morons, but in time it will heal. Good Luck dude...

Tough night for you. I'm sorry for your situation, and it looks like the sabotuer is your ex.

Just to quickly put the shoe on the other foot, devils advocate and whatever. I think that both CPS and the counselor have legal obligations when they hear that a child is in an unsafe situation (whether or not it is true). My wife is a school counselor (I'll be sure and keep her away from Irie so she doesn't ruin his life) and has, on numerous occasions, been lied to by one of the exes about the other ex, regarding the safety of the children. Even if she thinks the ex is lying, she is mandated by law to make a report. This is all about liability for the proffessionals.

It sounds like the CPS worker was doing his best to do his job, and I'm sure he didn't enjoy it any more than you did. I cannot imagine being a social worker, especially CPS. It has to be one of the most gut-wrenching horrible jobs there is. Obviously they burn out super fast. When my wife decompresses about her day to me the things these parents do to their children just turns my stomach, and makes me want to kill somebody. I don't know how CPS workers don't blow their brains out on a regular basis.

It just seems to me that CPS is suspecious of the good people and put kids back into homes that are dangerous.

I hate the whole concept of outsiders getting involved in family affairs. I do understand it is necessary on occation, but it's gotten to the point a parent can't even whip their disobeadiant child without it being called child abuse. I personally don't think it's possible to deal with all the issues a parent is faced with in raising a kid to adolesence without strapping the tar out of them a time or two. It's called bitter consequence, and kids that are faced with the cold hard reality of fuc%ing up with a belt across the ass are the ones that straighten up and fly straight. It's the ones who do as they please with no fear or respect for parental rules that end up being problem adults.

It probably does seem that way because they have to be suspicious (would you want them to not be?), and they do put kids back in homes that are dangerous. My wife has told me a hundred stories like this and I always say "Why do they put the kids back?", but like anything it comes down to case law, RCWs and liability. The state has tried to take all judgment away from the social worker, and give them automatic triggers for how to act/proceed. But really the people who do this work are always forced to make judgment calls, and do you think that the most talented work force is doing those jobs? No way, they are not even close to that.

Sol is right, and some kids have learned that they can get away with more because all they have to do is tell their teacher that they got beat. My wife has to go through this all the time, kid comes in to her office with a black eye. "What happened Johnny?" Johnny replies "My mom hit me with a broom". Counselor asks "Why did she do that?" Johnny says "I hit my little sister". Now the counselor is thinking "This little sh!t had it coming", but then they look in their book and it tells them they have to report it. They call CPS, and tell them there is no history of this, he probably had it coming, and it is probably not a big deal.

CPS looks in their book, it says "Bruising or contusion due to purposefully being struck with an object" and the CPS worker is like "Awwww crap." but does their job anyways, because it is their job. Believe me they try and find loopholes not to bother people as much as they can, they do it all the time.

On the other hand it could easily be abuse, and at some point it is caught. The kid is given to granny, "But the school/CPS knew about this abuse and never caught it" Helloooo - negligence case for the person who did not report the issue.

Who is to blame for this issue? I blame typical buereaucratic knee jerk reaction-law making. That is broad brush but the best I can come up with.

My wife's a juvenile probation officer (in Mason County, so she's busy) and a "guardian ad leitem" for kids taken away from parents in the system for drug related offenses, so I almost don't need to say it, but she is a hard ass with our boys.

CPS's mandate is to keep families together, while the county court system works with the best interest of the kids first and foremost. Quite honestly, I think the court system does a much better job than CPS, as you rarely hear of issues with them, compared to CPS, and you'ld be surprised at how many cases they handle.

Not taking anything away from you Achewter, I'm certain you are a good dad, and I appreciate you guys sharing your experiences.

So all I have to do is beat my kids and I won't have to deal with them anymore?

COOL!

Thanks everyone.
Just so pissed last night I had to vent.
just a couple things
The CPS guy was cool and just doing his job in this case. My problem is the total bullzhit f$%KING LIE that had my kids pulled out of class to be questioned at school. I doute I will be looked at the same way next time I enter my kids school. My god if they ever notice my daughters legs from the knees down they are gona think I get drunk everynight and must beat her for fun. They had to come and I except that. What lights me up is some how someone that has never been to my house and has met or talked to me for maybe a total of 20 minutes can claim I have 18 f'n loaded guns hidden all over in my house to CPS. I don't own 18 guns. My X wouldn't hesetate to defer responsibility for a weakness or a problem concerning herself or the kids to my sholders but I don't believe she would tell this guy that I had loaded guns hidden all over my house.

The inspection and talking with CPS was actualy a relief for a weeks worth of freeking out about what could or might happen.

2nd my X to the best of my knowledge is no whore. I am quite sure no one but me would pay for that hehehe.
THANKS again ...ART