Florida shooting

So what are your thoughts on this?

the only crime was being black.

$hitty.Good luck,
SZ

It seems difficult to claim self defense when you arm yourself and run out the front door initiating a confrontation. I understand the loop-hole with Florida's "stand your ground" law but that doesn't sit well with the family of the victim. From what I have read, it seems the guy has an itchy trigger finger and deserves to be put away.



Hopefully, they can verify the cell conversation and have the evidence they need to proceed.

This happened in a gated community didn't it, I would have thought that all people entering would be subject to identifying themselves so would assume that everyone there should have the right to be there.

The block watch guy seems a tad bit too anxious in his perceived duties.

He should be charged.

Fishy

Hard to claim self defense when the weaponless victim isn't even approaching you. Sounds like an overzealous dude that would accost people at boat ramps.

Never thought much of cops shooting unarmed people holding sandwiches and dont think much of guards killing candy holding kids. Should not matter if he is black, white, brown, red or yellow as we have no way of thinking this was race oriented. Just a POS that took his plastic badge a little to seriously.

Put him away for a long long time.

Sad very sad.

It seems like a travesty to me that the shooter isn't locked up. That poor kid had skittles and a can of iced tea that he'd just bought at the store and was walking home only to be accosted and executed by Zimmerman, an overzealous wanna' be cop.

My prayers for that boy and his family.

Zimmerman needs to be chopped up and fed to the gators.

Fish on...

Todd

It doesn't happen too often but RvW and I are in 100% agreement.

If they can enhance that tape and prove Zimmerman uses a racial slur just before he shot the kid. Zimmermen will be charged. As he should be either way.

I can't imagine the rage I would feel if i were that kid's dad. Pretty sure I would be looking for Zimmerman.

i heard play some of zimmerman i think 48 other calls to 911 and they were all about black men in the area. should be able to use them to prove he was a racist. what bothers me the most he was told to back off and the police would handle it.

Guns don't kill people, skittles do.

Looks like a wannbe Cop.

I'm afraid that if I were that young mans dad Zimmermans problems would be over but mine would have just begun.

I believe this was a racially motivated execution almost reminiscent of 1960's deep south. It SICKENS me to my core.

Why does the media wan't this to be a black/white issue, when the shooter is clearly Mexican?

I think the media is portraying it more as a hate crime...which it is. At least if you take into account what the killer utters before hand and his motivation for following the young man.

Do you think Zimmerman would have gone as far as he did if the boy was white and wearing a popped collared Izod?

Sounds like murder to me.

Clearly an overzealous phuqewad with a fake badge. Reminiscent of the hall monitor clown in high school who wore his scanner on his belt and was one of the "Explorers".



Aren't all crimes where a victim is involved "hate crimes"?

Not according to the FBI.

Defining a Hate Crime

A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

My guess is he'll be charged with 2nd degree murder, and will take a plead for Manslaughter.

Sounds like Ninja Mall Cop syndrome.

“We are taking a beating over this,” said Lee, who defends the investigation. “This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”

Yeah, if Trayvon had an opportunity to relive Sunday, he'd carry a piece when he buys Skittles and iced tea, he'd pop that mall cop between the eyes when he pulls a gun on him...and there'd be screaming all over the country to skip the trial put Trayvon directly into the electric chair.

Fish on...

Todd

Seriously? I think if it was reversed we wouldn't even be talking about it.

No winners.

I'm still trying to figure out how a kid with a mouthful of skiddles and drinking tea is talking on the phone.......


kidding aside....the same scenario is played out over and over again.....latest local incident is the black cop who foot-slams the hand-cuffed "perp's" head into the cement with his foot and is clearly caught on camera.....gets off aquitted. What?

Some people shouldn't be in charge of anything more than their goldfish.

Looks like there is more to the story...

I agree Andy. The interview I watched last night said the kid wasn't reported missing till the next day. Come on parents get a clue.

The boy in no way deserved to be shot. Lots of ways that could have been handled differently.

This makes me sick.

MARCH 26--The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show.

Sabrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.

The March 21 USPTO applications, each of which cost $325, were filed by an Orlando, Florida law firm representing Fulton.

Martin, 17, was shot to death last month during a confrontation with George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain. Martin, pictured above, was visiting his father’s home in Sanford, Florida when he was shot to death by Zimmerman, who has claimed that he was acting in self-defense.

Does anyone know why this took a month to surface?

Were was the outrage on this killing from the media?

You're just a little pussy libturd that wets his bed and sucks his thumb.

If I had a Son, I wouldn't want him to act like Trayvon.

There's more....


The Miami Herald

6:12 p.m. EDT, March 26, 2012
SANFORD — Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.
Trayvon, who claimed that an unnamed friend had given him the jewelry, was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.

A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver, calling the information in the report an attempt to “demonize” the youth.
According to the report, on Oct. 21 staffers monitoring a security camera at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School spotted Trayvon and two other students writing “W.T.F.,” an acronym for “What the f---,” on a hallway locker, according to schools police. The security employee, who knew Trayvon, confronted the teen and looked through his bag for the graffiti marker.
Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described the screwdriver as a burglary tool.
Trayvon was asked if the jewelry, which was mostly women’s rings and earrings, belonged to his family or a girlfriend.
“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.
School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.
“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by Miami-Dade Schools Police.
That suspension was followed four months later by another one, in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family’s attorney has confirmed. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”
The suspension was the third for the teen. On Monday, the family also acknowledged Trayvon had earlier been suspended for tardiness and truancy.
The reports of the suspensions surfaced as a more complicated portrait of Trayvon began to emerge Monday. Trayvon was shot to death in Sanford on Feb. 26 during a scuffle with neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman. He was suspended from school at the time.
Reacting to the new schools police report, Ben Crump, an attorney for the parents, said they “never heard anything like this about a bag of jewelry….And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26. They never heard this, and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”
“We think everybody is trying to demonize him.”
Trayvon, who was 17 when he died, had never been arrested, he said.
His mother, Sybrina Fulton, said her son never had any problems with gangs or the police. In fact, she said, when she transferred him out of Carol City High School to be closer to home, the school wanted him to stay at Carol City because they liked him and he was a good student, she said.
“They killed my son and now they are trying to kill his reputation,” she said.
Another lawyer for the family said she didn’t put much credence in the report about the jewelry and the screwdriver.
“This is someone in a school writing a report, rumor as far as I’m concerned,” said attorney Natalie Jackson.

When a 140 pound kid attacks a 250 pound older man (and isn't high on meth), it could be because the kid feared this guy who has been following him and is carrying a gun.

Comes now all the stories about Martin being expelled from school, having an empty baggie in his backpack that tests positive for trace MJ are all irrelevant in a court of law, but plays well in the court of public opinion. Assuming Martin was the scumbag Zimmerman's supporters are trying to make him out as, Zimmerman had no excuse to shoot Martin. Even Martin attacking Zimmerman doesn't excuse Zimmerman given that an armed Zimmerman was acting suspicious by following Martin around keeping tabs on him.

The first thing that should happen is arresting and charging the Black Pathers who put up the bounty.

As far as what went down between the kid and the neighborhood watchman.....who knows?

I will say that I personally have never known anyone who was high on pot get into a fight.

Beyond that, there is WAY too much reaction goin down.....very disproportionate, IMO.

Then you need to pull your head out of your arse.

I can certainly understand the rage that the panthers are feeling. It also sounds like errors were made by both Zimmerman and Trayvon. Events were set in motion and the force continuum was ratcheted upwards.

Sad waste of life, and the media is busy playing to everyone's emotions on all sides. I feel the media isn't so much concerned in reporting the news, rather they are more concerned in sensationalizing events.

Fucckin NRA!!!

They shot that boy!!!

Sad story.

If I ran into a Zimmerman when I was a kid I might have been shot.
<thinks back to the commotion we caused>
With his mall cop history, methinks Mr. Z should have been armed with a radio (only).

an aquaintance of mine once said, "The answer to the question 'WHY' is the booby prize of life."

I suggest that "disproportionate is as disproportionate does"

Block watch captain? Block watches have rank? Could he deputize people as block watch members in an emergency? I smells a poser.
I think Al Sharpton said it best at a recent rally to draw attention to this issue when he said, "Don't talk to us like we ignant."

I'm a fully qualified OF. And If I was being sat on by a punk that
was banging my head on the pavement I would perforate him.
Stress of the moment.
If it comes out that the issue went that rout. I don't see how they
can charge Zimmerman with any thing other than discharging a
fire arm in a residential area.
Tragic that two confrontational people ran into each other and
destroyed at least two lives.

The guy should have known better than to follow a teen provoking an altercation and should have left it alone. The kid should know that pounding someones head off the street can certainly get you shot. Sad story for both of them for sure.

Why is it that we allow the normal few must make it a race thing and use it for their own interests. Jessy and Rev Al (who I actually like) jump into action to get themselves headlines and profit from a sad situation. Helping no one and making it all the worse.

Same with our liberal friends here that jump on before we know what happened and try to make it a race issue. Took all of two minutes with zero proof that race had anything to do with it. Maybe next time we hold judgement until the facts come out before we call for blood from the "racist". Somehow I doubt it will make a difference if it furthers an agenda.

a few thoughts i have on this whole mess
-it's not self defense when you start losing a fight you started.

-when your community has a history of racially uneven justice you should expect racial protests.

-any kid should be very suspicious about strange men following them as they walk through a neighborhood.

-regardless of what happens in this case hopefully people will become aware of the dangers posed by psychologically messed up cop wannabees.

-a quick and easy way to change the "stand your ground" gun law would be for the black community to start arming themselves and using the law to get away with killing "threatening" white people. even saint ronnie passed gun control laws as governor when the black panthers started carrying guns in public.

-i never want to live in a gated community... because i have to deal with the type of people who want to live in a gated community.

+1

A little thoughts on your thoughts.

Topwater +1

Here's the thing I can't figure out -- seriously puzzling -- is how Zimmerman got so beat-up... He wasn't jumped/surprised by the kid, he clearly saw and was watching him, so how does a 140lb kid take on and defeat someone 100lbs his senior? I just can't see that happening...

Maybe he gets in a good shot (nose) but even that's hard/lucky to pull off. But the "bashing his head" stuff -- If I tried that on someone 100lbs my senor they'd just toss me aside, or roll me off. It doesn't make sense to me.

There is so much about this story that isn't making sense. And probably never will.

Here's a Glaring example of the Visual Agenda of the Lame Stream Media Bias . . . .



Kinda puts a New Spin on events.

The media is despicable.

I really care what a drunk loser has to say about anything

Solid.

So are you but hey...............nobody forces you to read the media, and while I read some of what you post, I don't give what you say much credence.........
_________________________
''A quick look over the archives does indeed show you to be a bit of an a$$hole''

Tampon Pro Staff

I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks

__________________________________________________________________________________

You've mispelled this for so long, I thought I'd help you out a bit.

edit: had to get the reply from the right guy

Everyone has different ways of grieving a loved one's death.
For some, nothing says "I miss you" more poignantly than looting the nearest convenience store.

To bad the bottom picture has already been proven to not be the victim and was originally put up by a neo-nazi website. Remember that the media only puts out what they want you to know so you can all think like them.

The new definition of a flash mob

[/quote]

Not really, it is well known that you are an idiot, with a penchant for self affirming posts that attempt to validate your warped world view.
[/quote]


How does Dan always say it........-

Pot,



Kettle,



Black.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Truth from a Retarded Pungentopolis libtard. Just what dumbassed Kollege Perfessor died and appointed you the arbitrator of what is true or not????? Why don't you crawl back under your sleaze where you came from. Either that or go suck whatever.

We have been through this before and have seen the extent of your furniture 2many times.



Weren't you supposed to be banned already?

You must be lost; you realize this is the darkside, right?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-zimmer...rtins-shooting/

His eyes are too close together.
Squirtgun operator right there.

Video sure looks like 240lb guy who fought a 140lb guy. That part of the "story" didn't make much sense in the first place, and in light of the video seems even MORE like a fabrication.

No visible blood or contusions on a BALD guy, no bandages/etc yet you want me to believe:

a) he had his nose broken in a fight
b) his head was being smashed against concrete.

NOW the thing that makes no sense (new!) is how the world this many people (police and fire?) could possibly collude to try to lie their way through this. That's actually pretty colossally stupid, if it turns out to be true it'll be amazing.

So again, this situation still doesn't make sense.

I was thinking the same thing!

Not exactly a hi quality video.

I'm impressed with your expertise on Dolts KK. You have an advantage
tho, being one yourself gives you an insight.

Go play in traffic yah little piss asnt retard

I had heard that he received medical attention hours before reaching the police station.

What's with all this speculation? This happened in Florida. Florida is in the south, souf for you southerners. Remember how it goes? It was clearly laid out in Easy Rider. Remember when Peter Fonda asked Jack Nicholson if he could get them out of jail? And Jack said, "sure, so long as you ain't killed nobody . . . white." There you have it folks, Zimmerman's 'get out of jail' card should he need to ever play it.

Spoken by the little Chit Fly Buzz'in around again, doesn't take more than one swat to deal with a little retard like you, like I said before, Go Play in traffic

Doesn't the video from the police station show he arrived there about 30 minutes after the shooting? He looked pretty clean in that video for someone that supposedly was getting his head bashed in and suffered a broken nose.



Maybe he just don't bleed much.

Every report I've seen on TV, or read on the InterWebz, says that the video of him arriving at the police station looking pretty chipper for having his a$$ beat in by a 14 year old child was made 30 minutes after this asswhooping took place.

Fish on...

Todd

Um, Todd, he was 17 years old..6' 2" 160. Sounds like the media sucked you right in. lol

Same as I've seen and read also. Only problem is he's not 14 or a child.

14, 16...whatever. That part's not really relevant...and legally speaking, 16 is indeed a child.

Fish on...

Todd

Nice backpedal.

Except that...it wasn't.

Fish on...

Todd

Apparently back in 2005 Zimmerman was arrested.

What for?

Pushing cops out of the way so that he could participate in an arrest that they were making...they told him to get the fukk out of the way, and he pushed his way to, presumably, "defend himself", from the folks being arrested by the cops.

Sounds a lot like the repeated pleas from the 9-11 operator telling Zimmerman to stop following Trayvon...which, of course, he ignored.

Fish on...

Todd

Hopefully some facet of the media will publish all the FACTS in this
matter without all the BS racial drama assertations. Would be nice
to hear what went down without the bs. drama queen reporting.

So here is what we have on Trayvon:

- 6'2 high school football player
- gang tats, gold teeth (grill), gang signs, gang clothing
- busted at school for having burglary tools and a woman's (stolen) jewelry
- busted at school for pot and suspended

Violent Criminal in a Hoody Attacks Congress!



Oh...nevermind. It's just a Congressman. Thank God Zimmerman wasn't there to remove the threat.

Here's Rep. Rush's comments:

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.) was thrown off the House floor Wednesday after wearing a hoodie and sunglasses in protest of the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida.

"Racial profiling has to stop," Rush said as he peeled off his suit jacket to reveal a hoodie underneath, at which point he pulled the hood over his head and replaced his glasses with sunglasses. "Just because someone wears a hoodie does not make them a hoodlum."

Rush began citing passages from the Bible about the need "to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God" and about being "sent ... to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and to recover the sight to the blind and to set the oppressed free .... I urge all men who hear these words to heed these lessons."

Rep. Gregg Harper (R-Miss.), who was presiding over the chamber at the moment, repeatedly hammered the gavel and tried to interrupt Rush, but he kept talking with a louder voice.

"May God bless Trayvon Martin's soul, his family," Rush shouted. He was still yelling as he was escorted off the floor by the House Sergeant at Arms.

Harper said Rush violated House rules by wearing a hoodie and reminded those in the chamber of the rules.

"Clause 5 of Rule 17 prohibits the wearing of hats in the chamber when the House is in session," Harper said after Rush had been taken out. "The chair finds that the donning of a hood is not consistent with this rule. Members need to remove their hoods or leave the floor."

A request for comment from Rush's office was not immediately returned.

*******************

Fish on...

Todd

This whole over exposure is racist.

Where were the crowds and public interest when the 29 year old white restaurant worker was slammed against the wall and made comatose by a real cop? Wrong guy, in fact. Totally innocent. Where were the crowds, and the national media then? Cop's actions were "justified".

Oh never mind.......he was White.

edit: Oh, and the President has a tea party with the Black Professor and comments on the Treyvor incident......but where were his comments on the above incident. Once again.....racist.

Though far from scientific, I'm betting that a black teenager would be far safer walking through a wealthy white neighborhood than a white teenager would be walking through a black ghetto.

A friend was a cop in Richmond California's worst ghetto neighborhoods and feels the same way.

Just saying, now call me a racist.

Ya mean like the two Brits who walked into the wrong Florida neighborhood and were shot for it?

"Tell that to Trayvon"

There, beat you to it...

Remember this?




Looks like the professional race baiters are hard at work today...

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/loc...ions_in_Sanford

Racism swings both ways.
Neither is good for America.

No doubt that racism swings both ways, but I can't help but wonder if blacks just maybe have legitimate reasons for their feelings about whites. It wasn't the blacks who sold the whites into slavery and wrote the segregation laws.

And we wonder about and don't understand the tribal feuds in other parts of the world while tribalism continues unabated right here in the good ole USA.

Yeah Salmonella, you're racist. So am I. It's the ones who say they aren't that most likely aren't being honest with themselves.

Sg

Salmo, it was blacks in Africa that helped sell other blacks into the slave trade.

The Word "ISSUES", come on that is a Little Girl Word. What happen little ChitFly, some skateboarder Dude run over one of your 2 semi-dead brain cells???? ISSUES

Sg,
You are one of the most intellectually honest posters here on PP.
Though on some issues we may disagree, you always put forth a well thought out response, instead of some two bit partisan sound byte.
Thank you.

I can only view the world from my white middle class perspective.
That said, I find perpetual victimhood rather disturbing.

I grew up in a very difficult situation.
My parents divorced when I was young, myself and three brothers lived with my dad who battled with alcoholism for many years.
Eviction notices, turned off electricity, bill collectors calling, little to eat, etc..etc.. not a good environment to grow up in to say the least.

I got a job at 18 and knew it was either sink or swim for me as I had no support system to fall back on.
Every single day I strived to succeed, knowing that I wanted out of my childhood situation.
My brothers were the same,today all of us have forged good families and comfortable lives.

Often I see peoples of similar upbringings copping out to drug & alcohol induced failures, blaming their rough childhoods and abusive parents for their complete lack of personal responsibility.

Yes, white Anglos were responsible for horrific injustices toward an entire race of people.
I wonder however just how many hundreds of years must pass before that is no longer a valid crutch.
It seems like the so called civil rights leaders (namely Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton) foster the continued sense of victimhood of their fellow African Americans.
Again I can only see the world through my prism, and perhaps my fate would have been different if I were born with dark skin.
I have always enjoyed the refreshing mind of Bill Cosby, who continually preaches self responsibility and the might to break the shackles of continued victimhood based on race.



Author Shelby Steele has some revolutionary concepts regarding black society in America in what he calls "The Religion Of Racism".

It's going to take some clever lawyering to sell "justifiable self defense" when the record shows that Mr. Z chose to continue pursuit after being told to stand down.
Anything can happen in these circus trials, I suppose.

I can't decide whose side I'm on though.
Let's see, black kid w/hoodie vs. 1/2 Hispanic-1/2 Caucasian with a Greek given name and a Jewish surname.

Salmonella,

Thanks for the compliment. Always enjoy your stuff too.

Gotta' agree that there's plenty of blame and responsibility to go around. I don't even claim to understand it. Lotta' learned sociologists been writing about racism and black culture in the US for a long time, and it doesn't look like anyone's any closer to figuring it out now than they were 100 years ago. It does give me a little more empathy to the nutty tribalism that's a 1,000 years old and governs behavior in some other countries.

Rodney King summed it up as well as anyone with his famous question: "why can't we all just get along?" Probably because we're human, and it's not in our nature, apparently, is the only answer I've come to.

Sg

And you see that as relevant why?

There's a lot of perpetual victimhood being played by gun owners...Watch out for those Grabbers!...and Christians...It's a War on Christmas!!!...

Perpetual victimhood is how the real redistribution of wealth takes place...distributing it to those who not only tell you to be afraid...Be Very Afraid!!...but by those who tell you that they are the only ones who can save you.

Funny part is that those who tell you to be afraid, and offer to save you, are always the same people.

Fish on...

Todd

To quote Dave V.........You see that as relevant how?

Like these recent NRA scare tactics...

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/nra-keeps-tabs-california-3-anti-gun-laws-1-pro-gun

And those paranoid hunters fearing that their beloved sport is being attacked by evil Democrats...

http://sd28.senate.ca.gov/news/2012-03-2...ing-packs-dogs-


Sheesh...

From those links, I'd say you need a few more mounts in that trophey room.

Exactly in line with what I said five days ago.
[b]Sad waste of life, and the media is busy playing to everyone's emotions on all sides. I feel the media isn't so much concerned in reporting the news, rather they are more concerned in sensationalizing events.[/b]

The same with the killings in Afghanistan. The media plays it how they want the public to react, rather than just reporting the news in a straightforward manner.

Dogfish, methinks you protest too much. How do you report either story (Florida and Afghanistan) in a straightforward manner? Both stories have "facts" that are all over the place. I wish we, as a society, would be willing to wait for the facts to become clear, but we are not and as soon as one news outlet presents the story (incomplete, innacurate, and premature), all others follow. We get what we deserve and what we demand.

How about they start with the facts. Don't pick and choose what you present to sensationalize the story. First they defame the shooter, then they say the kid got kicked out of school, then they go back to the shooter again and say he was accused of DV, and so on. If you can't see the see-saw, you're blind.

Both parties made mistakes, nobody should have lost their life. Sad.

Which facts? In the Florida case we have two sets of "facts".

1. Zimmerman followed this kid
He called 911
He did not exhibit any defensive wounds
The kid did not exhibit any contusions on his hands consistent with beating on Zimmerman.
Zimmerman shot the kid.

Or

2. Zimmerman followed this kid
He called 911
Witnesses report that the kid attacked Zimmerman
Witnesses report that the kid was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground.
Zimmerman shot the kid

Right now, the only facts that are consistent is that Zimmerman followed the kid, called 911, and shot the kid. And those facts mean virtually nothing without context.

Eddie,

"Right now, the only facts that are consistent is that Zimmerman followed the kid, called 911, and shot the kid. And those facts mean virtually nothing without context."

And that's exactly the problem. Media have been coloring the context since the beginning, rather than reporting that which they knew happened and not trying to fill in the blanks. But sensationalizing news is how to keep a story alive for days and weeks. If they can't keep it alive and moving, well, in the news business, yesterday's news is today's history. And they ain't in the business of reporting history. Americans hate history. Americans love American Idol and the Batchelor and any shallow-minded programming. But they do love trying complex issues they don't understand in the court of public opinion.

Sg

Salmo, you are right, but rather than blame the media, we have to acknowledge the role that the public plays in this (and, in fact, you have in your post). The media does what it does because it has a public that rewards them for what they do. Chicken - egg? I don't know. What I do know is that I prefer to wait rather than jump the gun. I guess that makes me an old fart. So it goes....

I'd agree that the NBC editing -- if true -- is reprehensible, and money says it will result in people getting fired.

To me this is a key difference between what red-staters call the "Lame-stream" media, and what the blue-staters call "Faux-news".

So yes, both sides make this "error". But can you seriously believe that Fox/Breitbart/Drudge hold THEMSELVES anywhere NEAR the standard of the left-wing media? A guy over-represents a story on this-american-life (not a news program, I might add) and it's national news. The majority of the press, and the decisive handling? By NPR themselves.

A selectively edited bit on Zimmerman? I bet a head (or heads) roll--and again NBC will lead the charge on how this is unacceptable.

But it's like a cheeky sport on Fox/Breitbart/Drudge. Distortions seem (to me) the order of the day. I'm not talking about opinions, i'm talking about willful DISTORTION.

I am old enough to admit that this may be perceptual on my part, but I sure don't see anywhere near the zeal for CORRECTING MISTAKES on the right-wing media as there is in the left. And I think --- as news media -- that gives the right vastly less credibility in my eyes.

Let a judge and jury decide the facts. The only reason the media is trying this case is because the justice system in Sanford has turned a blind eye to this case.

The media has always played a role is shining a light into dark places that we often do not want to see or know about.

Did you forget about Wall Street stealing hundreds of billions from the US Treasury a few years ago?

Don't let the facts get in your way bwp.

Only presented the info because Salmo said this " It wasn't the blacks who sold the whites into slavery"

It seems that Florida law is not the only thing that sucks. Wasn't it a jury of FLoridians that found Casey Anthony innocent?

Florida

I'm not certain about Florida law...but anywhere I can think of there's only one way that Zimmerman showed up at the police station in the back of a police car, in handcuffs, and that one way is that he was indeed arrested.

When he was arrested, he should have been booked.

None of this requires charges to be filed, and none of this requires a finding of fact that he did something wrong...just probable cause to arrest him, which clearly has taken place.

If he was arrested, why wasn't he booked? If he wasn't arrested, why was he transported to the police station in the back of a cop car wearing handcuffs?

In most states once you have been arrested, the clock starts ticking on how long the State has to charge you with a crime...usually 120 days.

We're well into that time now.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Cops don't bring charges, Prosecutors bring charges. Cops arrest, and investigate...prosecutors charge and try.

Because justifiable homicide is not a crime?
What evidence have you found that it was anything other than that?
I'm sure the police dept. captain would like to hear it.

The evidence against Mr. Zimmerman is manifest...nothing has to be proven to arrest him, just enough to establish probable cause, and the fact that he had to stalk and run down Martin in order to shoot him is plenty of probable cause no matter what the law, or what the jurisdiction.

The thing not being discussed right now is that Zimmerman was arrested...you do not get a ride to the cop shot in cuffs without that being the case.

When that happened, he has to be booked...which he wasn't, at least no one is saying that he was.

He doesn't have to be charged after being arrested, of course, and that technically is the prosecutor's job, though it's mostly done in conjunction with the cops...if the cops put together enough evidence to show that a crime may have been committed...not was committed, may have been...then the prosecutor should press charges.

Charges can always be dropped later if the evidence fails to reach a level high enough to take to court...happens all the time.

Without knowing the facts other than seeing the "witnesses" on TV, none of which are actually witnesses at all, except the one anonymous witness...and seeing the police video, hearing the 9-11 call...this seems like there is no reason whatsoever to not arrest, book and charge Zimmerman with a crime.

Once you do that, then the investigation will...or will not be able to...gather enough evidence to take to court.

Fish on...

Todd

He was arrested.

He was not booked, charged, or arraigned, but you do not get a ride to the police station in cuffs without being arrested.

You also do not get arrested without getting booked.

He was released before being booked, which would not happen at the cops' behest.

There's something mixed up about that.

Fish on...

Todd

WRONG AGAIN Todd.

bwp are you going to carry on like you did after Michael Jackson bought the farm?

What they say doesn't comport with the law, or reality...saying "he wasn't arrested" doesn't make it so.

When they read him his rights, cuffed him, and put him in the back of the squad car, he was under arrest.

Fish on...

Todd

WA and Florida law explained by real lawyers

I'm glad we have legally trained experts like Sol Duc here to keep us all informed...Hank, too, for that matter.

When you get a ride to the station with handcuffs on, you are under arrest.

You can't be "un-arrested", either, by taking the cuffs off and sent home.

Somewhere during the process of being arrested and booked, someone said "let's pretend this didn't happen, and maybe no one will notice"...and that's what happened...for a month.

Fish on...

Todd

I am not the smartest person in the world but I think everyone is getting hung up on the word "arrested" and acting like it really matters.

Todd explained that you can be arrested, booked by the police and then released (I would imagine) and then the prosector/invetigators determine if there is enough evidence to press charges and start the court process. That is when you get charged and I would imagine another arrest warrant would be put out at that time.

Hank's links basically said the same thing but seems the clock starts with the arrest and not charges being filed.

So it seems to me you are both saying similar things, minus everyone getting hung up on the word arrested.

Sorry if I miss spoke for someone or took what you said out of context.

Bottom line is, this case is being investigated and if enough evidence is found he would be charged (I think).

I can start right at the top...there in no way whatsoever is a requirement for an arrest warrant in this case, or in about 95% of cases.

Fish on...

Todd

I had way more fun listening to my 6 and 7 year old argue about whether the "apple jacks" tasted like apple or not...

DID TOO... DID NOT...
you're stupid... no you're stupid...
Am not... Am too

New-to-me details... 2 experts in voice matching say the voice screaming for help is NOT Zimmerman, as he claims:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/0...s-2-experts-say

only if you eat them in the living room while wearing a red shirt...

You have pretty much summed up the last seven pages. Bottom line is none of us know what happened. The Grand Jury will PROBABLY get closer to the truth. But we may never know it all. We do know an unarmed kid was killed.

You don't "stay arrested" or get "un-arrested"...an arrest is an arrest, and it doesn't get reversed, or ignored, or undone.

He was arrested...the question is why was he subsequently released when there's far more evidence than necessary to keep him in custody and charge him with a crime?

The investigation, of course, is ongoing...he can still be picked up and brought back in, but in 60 days or so the clock will run out on charging him (assuming FL law is similar to most everywhere else in that you get 120 days to charge someone after their initial arrest).

Everyone is arguing about the wrong question...why wasn't he arrested?

He was arrested..."why was he let go?" and "why hasn't he been charged yet?" are the pertinent questions.

It'll come out over the next few weeks, I'm sure...but sooner or later someone frome the Fuzz there will have to admit that he was arrested, and then answer three questions...

1. Why was he arrested?
2. Why was he released without being booked (an automatic)?
3. Why was he released without being charged?

The PD there is happy to let people focus on the wrong question, because focusing on the above three questions is where all the schit is going to happen...and I think it will happen, and in the next couple of weeks.

Fish on...

Todd

I used to have one of those...saw one NIB at an antique store a few years ago for $150!

Fish on...

Todd

Coming from a loser who spent time in a freezer with Vhawk...LOL

Jake was a teenager when he pulled that freezer stunt.

What's your f'n excuse?

First, you wouldn't know a statement delivered in an intelligent manner if it was beating lumps into your skull.

Second, not much is going to happen in your lifetime if you keep your gums flapping, other than flames and such.

So instead of minfly should we call him 'miniDanS'....seein' as how DanS's his new spokeswoman/protector...or super small miniDanS...microDick...midgetdanfly....littledick?

LittleDick it is....

Yer mom's fat... and you look like yer sister!

NBC has launched an internal probe after running an edited version of the 911 call from George Zimmerman -- the man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin -- that made Zimmerman sound racist.

"We have launched an internal investigation into the editorial process surrounding this particular story," the network said in a statement to the Washington Post on Monday.

NBC's "Today" show ran the edited audio of George Zimmerman's phone call to a police dispatcher in which Zimmerman says: "'This guy looks like he's up to no good … he looks black."




But the audio recording in its entirety reveals that Zimmerman did not volunteer the information that Martin was black. Instead, Zimmerman was answering a question from a police dispatcher about the race of the "suspicious person" whom Zimmerman was speaking about.

A transcript of the complete 911 call shows that Zimmerman said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

The 911 officer responded saying, "OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?"

"He looks black," Zimmerman said.

The abridged conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher that NBC ran on March 27 has been blasted by media watchdog groups as misleading. Critics have said the edited version was made to suggest that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black -- an accusation by many that is still under investigation.

Martin, 17, was shot to death Feb. 26 by Zimmerman, 28, a neighborhood watch volunteer, as Martin walked from a convenience store back to his father's fiancee's home in a gated community outside Orlando. The case has stirred a national conversation about race and the laws of self-defense.

Martin, a black teenager from Miami, was unarmed when he was shot by Zimmerman, whose father is white and mother is Hispanic. Zimmerman told police the teen attacked him before he shot in self-defense. He has not been charged in the case, despite repeated calls by political leaders and protesters for his arrest.

NBC has also come under fire by some critics for allowing MSNBC personality, the Rev. Al Sharpton, to lead protests in Florida calling for Zimmerman's arrest. Sharpton is scheduled to speak Monday in Sanford, Fla., at a march of about a thousand people carrying signs and wearing T-shirts with the teen's image

The Sultan is Zzzzzzzzzzzing-rich.

Sol Duc, thanks for copy/pasting the news about the internal NBC investigation on the editing. Almost EXACTLY as I predicted -- you see that *some* in the media that are actually interested in some form of objective, factual reporting will internally self-correct errors.

This, compared to the cheeky, truth-y, IMO *willful* distortion of the truth on the right, is one of the prime reasons I find the present-day GOP to be unrecognizable as "conservative" about anything at all.

RWWJ's fail to see the irony when they c/p how other networks make mistakes, but then try to rectify them, while FauxNews lies, and never makes any effort to correct anything.

It takes a FauxNews fan to be able to do that and feel like they are winning.

Congratulations?

Fish on...

Todd

You're welcome.

That sounds like something THE DECIDER would say.

Except you're not THE DECIDER.........I am.

And I just decided that you should shut the hell up.

NBC edited the Zimmerman call to police to purposely incite racial tensions.
__________________________

NBC issues apology for edited Zimmerman 911 call

NBC News issued an apology Tuesday for the way it handled the broadcasting of the 911 conversation between George Zimmerman and a police dispatcher in the Trayvon Martin case.

Following reports that NBC aired audio of the call was edited in a way that implied Zimmerman was racist, the network launched an internal investigation.

"During our investigation it became evident that there was an error made in the production process that we deeply regret. We will be taking the necessary steps to prevent this from happening in the future and apologize to our viewers," the network said in a statement cited by The Washington Post.

Zimmerman, a volunteer neighborhood watch leader, admits shooting and killing Martin one night in February, but he has said the shooting was in self-defense and justified under the state's "Stand Your Ground" law. He also said Martin attacked him, but that and other details of the case remain in question, as authorities continue to investigate whether to charge Zimmerman.

NBC's "Today" show ran the edited audio of Zimmerman's phone call to a police dispatcher, seeming to show Zimmerman saying, "This guy looks like he's up to no good … he looks black."

A transcript of the complete 911 call shows that Zimmerman said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

The 911 officer responded saying, "OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?"

"He looks black," Zimmerman said.

The abridged conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher that NBC ran on March 27 has been blasted by media watchdog groups as misleading. Critics have said the edited version was made to suggest that Zimmerman

Drop her off in Detroit at 2:00 am and see if she still feels this way.

She speaks well for one so full of BS. I wonder if she had a prompter.
Course I know of another that speaks well and is full of BS. However,
I know he has a prompter.

What the helll are all these irate folks gonna do when the PA
decides there is inadequate grounds to charge Zimmerman?
I don't know if she will decide that way or not but it sure would
wrinkle a lot of panties if she did. Then again it is such a high
profile case she might need to prosecute it just to further her
political career.

He'll be charged with something, after the acquittal is when things might get interesting.

This whole thing is ....... once again ...... over-reaction to irresponsibility. We do a lot of that, don't we?

Hint: If you're black....you are NOT special.....just like everyone else. Duh

Sounds like they will need some help from the OJ procecuting team.

Time to dig up Johnny Cochran.

ooh that is good.

I would like to hear the facts about the alleged teenie beating on
Zim' and pounding his head on the concrete. Maybe a polygraph test,
althought not allowed as evidence, often helps clear the air about
some events.
If the "nice young man" was truly thumpin on Zim' it does kinda
change the scenerio.
I see the media still likes the photo of the deceased when he was
14 rather than the photo of the 17 year old giving the world the
double digits.
Love it when they tell you how and what to think. Too bad this
seems to be a, satisfy the mob, prosecution.

This Guy is spot on.

Anyone know what Zimmerman's bail is?

Probably for his own safety.

last i heard he was being held without bail... never been to jail myself, so i dont know how that works...

the media is really pissing me off in this case... while im not on any side in this case, if he made multiple calls to LE, and nothing was ever done about anything, i can see how someone would get fed up with it, im going through it myself... does that mean its ok to just shoot someone? absolutely not... but, BIG but, if he was attacked by the kid, well, thats mistake number 1, and people should realize that... maybe if idiots would get it through their head, that if you try to harm, rob, rape, or whatever to someone, you have the possibility of being killed, they may think twice... problem is, they dont, and dont seem to care anyways...

where was the media coverage and outrage on the Channon Christian and Chris Newsome murders, the young white couple in Knoxville that was carjacked by 4 black men, and 1 black woman... Chris's penis was cut off, then he was shot 3 times, and set on fire, and CHannon was raped and then killed and put in garbage bags... Chris was also raped, and sodomized, CHannon was sodomized with a broken chair leg as well... yet the media didnt talk about it, and noone to this day really even knows or cares about it... i have my opinion on why that is, but i will keep it to myself...

ive known about it since 07, as i have friends that live in Nashville...local media blurted a small amount about it, but ZERO national coverage ever happened... why? like i said, i have my opinion, and i dont need to express it on here at this time...

Jaek's punk junk is spewing again (still?).

Damn tough to find fault in that vid.

Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz told MSNBC that the Zimmerman affidavit was irresponsible and unethical.
“It’s so thin it won’t make it pass the judge on a second degree murder charge… It’s not only thin, it’s irresponsible.”

What part of 6' 3" don't you understand? You seem to have fallen for the little kid coming back from buying some candy.

Trayvon the little angel...dope dealer, thief and gangbanger. My heart goes out to the Parents, they seem like good people.

aint the dad a member of the Black Panthers?... sure as sh!t as i am, i dont thin they care for "whitey" too much... you seen the tats on the dad yet either?

I haven't heard any of that.

not sure if he is actual Black Panthers, but the Bps but a hit out on Zimmerman... and the dad has heavy gang tatoos on is arms.. im sure you can scrounge some pics up showing them... and some of them are anti White.... good thing he wears a suit all the time now, dont wanna get that all blown up....

I heard the Father was a Freemason.

What in the hell is this world coming to, why, and for how long? This kind of crap needs to stop, fast.

The answer is simple. Justice is a joke. Immatures without responsibility get you where we are.......know any?

Black on White violence is not news worthy.

fairly interesting, not suprising...

http://patdollard.com/2012/03/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealing-gangbanger/

its not the tattoos per say, but how the hell do you get a bunch of tats, and gold teeth, at 17 years old?

also, No_Limit_N!gga, seriously? LOL... in case you dont know, hes not refering to "no limits", hes refering to No Limit, a southern based rap label, started by Master P, who did the majority of his crap from New Orleans Lousiana, and ALWAYS raps about selling drugs...

now i listen to rap, and have for quite some time now, but i sure as sh!t wont and dont do stupid things like give myself gay tag names like that... thats asking for trouble... funny how that account was deleted from Twitter as well... too bad the internet stores stuff and you cant fully delete it...

kids these days, take music way out of perspective, and turn it into stupid sh!t, like the songs told them to do it, or that they are advocating doing it... for the most part, its all just a cover to sell records, but there are idiots in the rap game that actually do stupid crap like rape, molestation, murder, robbery, ect...

heres a song by Master P, heard it many many times, used to have the CD, but if kids take it out of context, you can see what will happen... listen at your own risk..

Voluntarily?

Then that makes you a donkey.

Hope this helps........

+ 1000

If they did, it could backfire on the defense. Is a plea for agg assault even an option on a murder 2 ?

i agree hank, the past is the past, but it can also show how the person was, or could have acted during the confrontation... Trayvon was only at his dads house because he was suspended from school for 10 days due to being in an "unauthorized zone"... i was in highschool once myself, and find that a 10 day suspension is total bull crap in that case, and there is something else that happened... he also got in trouble for beating up a bus driver... while the past is the past, it still shows a pattern of behavior..

the 911 operator, told Zimmerman to stop following Martin, i highly doubt it was because they were afraid Zimmerman was going to do something, and rather, that a suspect could pose physical harm to him personally... he didnt listen, and got his [Bleeeeep!] kicked, and someone got shot... how he was shot, is the key in this tho... 10 feet away, saying FU to someone, cannot be an excuse for that, getting repeatedly punched in the face, in some states, warrants that... but as you said, its up to the jury to find out and decide... that poses another problem tho, as look at what happened and is happening all across this country due to this, how can they fully trust jurors to be completely unbiased in this case?

and, if he does get found innocent, or aquitted, watch the riots that erupt in Florida, and across the country due to this... if you thought Rodney King was bad, you have another thing comin....

I bet the powder burns are going to be pretty important.

I think rap music is geared towards people with an iq under 50. So when you say that the lyrics mean nothing, they relly do to somebody.

rap/music = oxymoron

Happy hour?

i dont know what the hell a boogle or a zoogle even is, and have no use for that information whatsoever anyways lol...

what i read determines how smart i am? well sh!t, i must be a genius then, i have books, and have read about Philo, Plato, Socrates and the Socratic Schools, St Augustine, St. Thomas of Aquinas, Ignatius of Loyola and way too much other crap, that honestly, i dont NEED to know either....


and i know all about the Black Swan, and Talebs interpretation on humans, just never read it, nor care to...

i get what your saying... not all zoogles are boogles, meaning or in this case, not all young black teeneagers, or even black men in general, are like the others that kill, mame, and hurt.. same with whites, asians, mexicans, cougars, bears, and pigmy goats... its called stereotyping, or "profiling" a person based of his skin color..

all zoogles are boogles (the answer is), just cuz it looks the same, doesnt mean it is the same....

BUT

sometimes they are, and sometimes, bad things happen... its up to us to judge life accordingly on the way we live it, certian things can get you in deep sh!t, physically, mentally, and in jailally...

if all zoogles are boogles, and i saw a boogle, wouldnt matter if it was a zoogle... cuz all zoogles are boogles...

all humans are the same regardless of how they look?

A somewhat brief description of Black Swan

To me this kind of stuff is like having 5 people standing shoulder to shoulder looking out a window.

All will see the same thing differently.

And in the end.....what does it matter?

As far as the topic of this thread goes.......no doubt either or both parties involved "could" have made many different choices......but they did what they did. To say that a 17 year old doesn't deserve to die might greatly depend on just what the facts are......and in any event, he's still dead. Is that good? bad? I don't know..... it is....that's it....it is.

Saddam Hussein was 17 once.........Charles Manson was too........

Too bad they both didn't die sooner, wouldn't you say?

most killers are wild animals: true, but not all are, some are humans, who arent wild nor technically animals...

most wild animals are killers: true, but not all are, some are vegitarians, in a way tho, they are killers as well, as vegetation is a living being...

this has confused the SH!T out of me... thanks alot... i will figure it out tho..

all potatoes are tomatos, did you see a potato? or was it a tomato?....


see that sh!t just confused me even more, because i know what each of them look like, and i sure as hell woulndt get them confused...

Try this redhook.........this may help......

All salmon are fish............you saw a fish........was it a salmon?

Now you SHOULD be able to reason out the answer.

not exactly, because there are many fish in the sea that look different...

i know this question is easy as hell too, my dad is probably laughing his a$$ off right now... it has litterally confused the hell out of me..

is this falling into the believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear category?

im more like a black duck... im not very swan like.

if i saw a zoogle, it had to be a boogle, because all zoogles are boogles...

True.......that part was already given......however the question is.........

If you saw a boogle.........is it a zoogle?

Remember:

All zoogles are boogles. You saw a boogle. Is it a zoogle?

Too bad I had the computer off....missed some of the non-sense.

How do you get to the point of "me saying" from what I posted? You are the one assuming, not I. Your proclamation was that it is ALWAYS bad when a 17 year old dies. My point was that by saying that you ASSUME that 17 is the only requirement to being a worthwhile individual. My point was that ALL people.....good and bad......are seventeen at one time (provided they live longer than that). Trevon was not exactly your roll model teen, was he? Kicked out of school, doing drugs, stealing,..........not a good start. Does that make him future cell bait? No, but it makes him more prone to be.
In this case this boogle could have been a zoogle, also may not have been a zoogle. One thing is for sure....this boogle bungled it.

bunglin boogles? thanks alot A$$..

i guess im just not college material... and i was thinking about going in for Welding, guess im screwed...

if zoogles are boogles, than boogles have to be zoogles at some point...

hmmmmmm.....

are you saying "are you sure what you saw"? are you positive if it was a thief, or a citizen?

thanks for doin this, ive remembered sh!t i forgot about that doesnt even have anything remotely associated with this, and forgot i even knew about it lol... awesome...

I don't believe De Morgan would necessarliy approve of that bit of
illogic. Besides not all theives are citizens and not all citizens are
theives.

i before e except after c

You're correct. I would have said you are right but right and left have taken on a whole new connotations.

scroll down and watch the Piers Morgan video..

http://theclicker.today.msnbc.msn.com/_n...ocid=ansmsnbc11

I figured this would come out at some time.



Not taking a side, but Zimmerman's case just got a bit stronger.

Looks like a hole in the scalp here........

Wow, if that really is Zimmerman's head (and blood) I don't see how he can lose.

Looks like some reporter actually did some investigation on events leading up to the shooting. This is actually reporting the news, interviewing folks in the neighborhood, and adding real context to who this George guy is.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/0...martin#comments

Some interesting background information there.

Fish on...

Todd

Still a sad event for all involved, and I still think that both George and Trayvon made mistakes.

Beats having Marsupial genes.

RWWJ + Marsupial genes = Fox Mole.

Wounds to Zimmerman's head, if the photo is true, still don't validate his presumed "stand your ground" defense. Zimmerman pursued Martin after being directly told by the 911 dispatcher that "you don't need to do that." A person is not "standing his ground" when he pursues another, and the other, Martin in this case, may have been standing his ground in self defense when he realized he was being followed or pursued by Zimmerman. Zimmerman still has a long distance to cover to prove self defense with, or without, stand your ground. Had Zimmerman not followed (pursued) Martin, his legal defense would be sound. Of course, had Zimmerman not pursued, the killing would more likely than not have occurred. Murder 2 still seems like an appropriate charge that could maybe be plead to Man 1.

Sg

911 operators are not law enforcement and he had no duty or requirement to follow their directions.

"you dont need to do that" and " DO NOT FOLLOW" are 2 different things...

maybe Zimmerman has had things stolen from him, and was fed up with it?

this case has been screwed from the get... Zimmerman has lost his life as well...

either hes guilty, and gets life, and or death..

hes not guilty, riots start, people go after him, bascially anywhere he decides to go in the country, there will be someone that hates him...

how do you decide a jury? all white people? so that when he gets found innocent, then African Amercans go ballistic saying its racially motivated..

or all black people, so that when he gets found guilty, the KKK and other extremeists go ballistic saying it was racially motivated...

or half and half, so that it becomes a dead lock, and noone can agree, then the African American extremists go ballistic because justice was not served and demand a re trail...

or 1/3 black, 1/3 white, and 1/3 hispanic, so that if he gets found innocent, they will say it was because of the hispanics in there looking out for him, which would be racially motivated...

dudes screwed for LIFE....

DF,

That's true, but the information establishes Zimmerman as a pursuer. Being in pursuit of another does not fit with "stand your ground" or conventional arguments of self defense.

Sg

I've heard nothing that is definitive evidence of him being innocent or guilty...just a lot of stuff so far.

That's why you have a trial.

Fish on...

Todd

innocent or not, hes still lost... and best believe if he is found innocent, sh!t will hit the fan all across the country.... if you thought the King riots were bad, just wait... it has the potential to turn every metropolitian city in the entire US into LA... bad bad situation...

This will turn ugly as the DA seems to have over charged on the case. For murder 2 you need "a depraved mind" and have proof of malace. Tough to see that here with what has been put forward. Man1/2 maybe but this will start riots now even if he gets a lesser plea. Setting the bar to high for anyone to be happy. Hope we do not have another DA looking to be the next govern/congress person and end up lighting the inner cities across the country on fire.

Nobody is EVER found innocent.

EVER.

They either find you guilty, or not. Nobody has ever been found innocent in a court of law.

Maybe not in a court but when I was younger I found a few girls who were innocent.

I think they were just telling you that.

Fish on...

Todd

Don't you mean you found them delightful?

point taken Dan... and dead on as well...

Psssst. In case you didn't know, the entire Trayvon/Zimmerman show
is a media circus. The media set out to create a black/white hate
show and every one seems to be buying tickets. Even the Prosecutor
that created the indictment couldn't resist the potential 'get on the map' opportunity.
Two lives totally phucked up for the sake of a bit of hubris.
But the media makes out.

I'm pretty sure the two lives were totally phucked up long before the media got involved...and blaming stuff on the media is even too base for you, Illy...leave that to Hannity, Bachmann, Pallin, and Limbaugh.

Fish on...

Todd

If that head wound is the result of Trayvon beating on Zimmerman I would say Zimmerman shot at the last possible second. Sounds to me like he just wanted to have a few words with Trayvon and then Trayvon decided to show Zimmerman the curb and that's when things got out of control. Maybe Zimmerman did provoke it somehow and when he saw Trayvon was about to kill him with possibly even his own weapon it was kill or be killed. Trayvon is the one who looks like the Shady character in this situation. The race card was being played out before this incident even started, it wasn't a factor it was an excuse.

The race card was played first by Zimmerman when he told the dispatcher that Trayvon was a "suspicious black guy"...and then second when he told the dispatcher "those niggers always get away with it"...

Fish on...

Todd

I saw that the phrase "These #$)*@ always get away"...and someone implying that he said "nigger"...if he didn't, then I was incorrect.

Fish on...

Todd

Got something in his hands: Skittles and iced tea. Deadly weapons for sure. Talk about presumption of guilt.

Martin may have been a dirtbag, but Zimmerman had no knowledge of that. The only thing Zimmerman could be sure of was that Martin was guilty of being black.

I haven't proven anything. I'm just reflecting on the evidence made public thus far.

He was looking for black men.

He found a black man.

He shot a black man.

A black man who was armed with Skittles and iced tea.

When you go looking for trouble, you will find it.

When you are the cause of the trouble you find, you will be held accountable for it.

Moral of the story is that if you decide to be a vigilante, you better know who you are shooting at, and why...or you may go from vigilante to criminal when you make a mistake.

Fish on...

Todd

Good summary Todd.

We have yet to see if it is applicable.

Again, that's why there's gonna be a trial.

Fish on...

Todd

Obviously Trayvon was coming at Zimmerman so why is it wrong for Zimmerman to go after Trayvon?

Except for the part that no one has said that Trayvon was coming at Zimmerman, and Zimmerman himself stated that he pretty much chased Trayvon down and confronted him...except for those little pesky facts...you're spot on.

Fish on...

Todd

Funny how those facts seem to escape so many people here on PP on so many different subjects.



Fishy

Seems to me it's your right to walk without being accosted by the local neighborhood watch, or any citizen, anyway. Try to stop and question me I'll tell you to F off.

+10000

If it were the other way around, and Trayvon had run down and confronted Zimmerman, there'd be a bunch of gun nuts preaching that this could have been avoided had Trayvon been packing heat...when Zimmerman came up to him he could have shot him first.

'Course, you only get that preaching when the end result would be a white man shooting a black man...I haven't heard one NRA dude say yet that Trayvon could have saved himself by shooting Zimmerman.

If it were a white guy confronted by a black man, not only would they be screaming for the black guy's head, they'd be telling everyone to get armed so this doesn't happen to you.

Where are all those guys now? Oh, that's right...telling everyone that Zimmerman was such a great guy, that it was Trayvon's fault for walking through the neighborhood with Skittles.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd.....That is just F-in stupid. About as bad a post you have made in sometime. Why attempt so hard to make and connect anyone pro-gun with racists. Pretty F-in sad post even if just to get a rise.

No attempt necessary.

Tell me it's incorrect...if it were a white guy who was minding his own business, eating his Skittles, and a self-appointed black vigilante with a gun shot him to death after running him down and confronting him, this would be a totally different discussion.

It would be all about arming yourself to protect yourself from such a criminal, not about "it's his fault, too, for eating Skittles".

Fish on...

Todd

Todd your responses to just about everything are so predictable ...and laughable.

Ann Coulter makes LeadEater look smart.

Fish on...

Todd

Pot

Kettle

Black

so are yours ...lol

Predict away...

No need to be repititous...grizz posts about what a dumbass he is all by himself, every time he posts.

Fish on...

Todd

The 911 call recorded Zimmerman saying Trayvon was coming his way and he didn't know why. Then George followed him, there was a confrontation, George got whacked in the head, pulled out his gun and shot the kid. Does it matter that he was black? Does it matter that he was suspended from school, a thief, and walking through a neighborhood eating Skittles? No, what matters is peoples heads don't get that bloody without a live person banging on it. What came first: the gunshot or the head pounding? I wonder what the difference in size and strength is between the two? Maybe Trayvon was 4 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier than George with the ability to do a 4.5 second 40. While Trayvon was stomping on Georges head (who knows how it started) George pulled his gun and saved his life.

Well, schit...I didn't know we had an eyewitness right here on PP who saw it all happen! Someone call Florida, they don't need a trial to find out what happened, Salman's got it covered.

Fish on...

Todd

I never said I was an eyewitness. I took what I heard from the 911 call and put the pieces of the puzzle together based on the blood on the back of Zimmermans head and the fact that Trayvon got killed.

If Trayvon was really so innocent, do you think he would have been killed? The race card is outdated, in my humble opinion.

No...only people who deserve to die get shot.

Fish on...

Todd

I mean bear with me. If Trayvon happened to be wearing a suit and tie while walking at a good clip through the neighborhood (still black) and not acting suspicious by peeking in windows and walking through peoples yards do you think Zimmerman would have just shot the hell out of him?

If Todd was dumb enough to think he's some kind of fuckin rent-a-cop on a one man crusade to save the world, chased down a some dude eating Skittles suspiciously, then I'd deserve to get beat up.

This is why pussies shouldn't carry guns, they use them instead of their brains.

Fish on...

Todd

How dare I modify a Dan S post........but I just can't help it....... The three issues at hand

I'm a grown man according to the last census. And I pack. Kinda like
having some aspirin in your pocket or car insurance. Hopefully you
will never have a need. However, if some young, or old, thug wants
to make me his punching bag or wants to take my aspirin by force
I will do the right thing and remove him from the gene pool.
My Scout good deed for the day.

btw Todd wouldn't know a pussy from an Abalone. They're both
edible.

A pussy is someone who wouldn't do a thing, unless they had a gun in their pocket...like chase down a kid with Skittles and start hassling him. He would have stayed in the bushes with a pair of binoculars and waited for the cops to get there, which is what he should have done all along.

You guys seem to be implying that it was Trayvon that chased this poor man Zimmerman down and started right to killing him, and thank God Zimmerman had a gun to save his own life.

The truth is that Trayvon was eating Skittles and walking down the street in the fuckin United States of America, and Zimmerman should have left him the fukk alone, like all Americans deserve to be when they are not committing any crimes or bothering anyone.

Zimmerman caused a situation that wouldn't have existed without him thinking he's some sort of superhero, and the reason he thought he was some sort of superhero was because he was packing.

Besides a background check they should have a "are you a fuckin pussy?" check when you buy a handgun, and if you are, they shouldn't let you buy one...because now a pussy thinks he's a big man who can go to war, when he probably should just sit on the couch and play xbox, or whatever the fuckk it is that pussies do all day when they're scared to go outside.

Fish on...

Todd

Hank,

So there is no issue regarding "why" Zimmerman was getting his head bashed?

So far there has been "probable cause" that a crime occurred. Zimmerman was arrested and charged with Murder 2. Zimmerman will be tried for Murder 2. Zimmerman's bashed head is one piece of evidence that may, or may not, indicate he murdered Martin.

(I am not a judge, lawyer, or cop, but I watched all 3 on TV.)

Not quite Hank, but nice try. I am looking forward to the trial so that we have some facts to discuss rather than random suppositions.

Your random supposition is that Zimmerman had any need to defend himself, actually was defending himself, or used deadly force to defend himself from death...none of which are assured, or even close.

Fish on...

Todd

Well, what do pussies do Odd? You seem to be the authority.

It is rather obvious that if Zimmerman had assumed the pussy role
the incident may not have ended in a death. However, if it is
true that Trayvon was hammering Zimmerman he was requesting
a response a pussy might not have had in his play book. Bang was
the unfortunate alternative.

All the BS aside hopefully we will experience a better trial than
the OJ circus.

The case is a loser.

I was on a jury for a double murder (mother, daughter, stabbed numerous times) for 6 weeks and I can tell you that it takes some doing to hear the facts.

No, it's not...and I've never said anything close to that at all.

What I said is that he's a self-appointed vigilante who wouldn't have chased Trayvon down if he weren't armed.

I also said he's a pussy, and he's definitely a self-appointed rent-a-cop with a superhero fantasy...and because he's such a pussy, it got out of hand and now an innocent young kid is dead.

Fish on...

Todd

Where is the line drawn on self-defense? Young Trayvon was 5 inches taller than Zimmerman and probably more athletic. Maybe he had some fighting skills that some of his defenders don't have that he used to try and rip Zimmerman a new one. Ever think of that?

You are a riot Aboo Loo miss. Density doesn't even begin to
relate to you. I realize you can only generate a comment because
you hope to get a bit of attention, but keerist, get real.
In case you need to know, I suspect you are certifiably a micro-
cephalic.

is a microcephalic a dude that fVcks microwaves?

and Abu, just cuz you dont like it, dont mean that someone else wont.. kinda a dickish move on your part... both of ya

sorry, I didn't realize the term Micro Cephalic was obtuse. Perhaps
nipple noggin would have been more ap pro po.
Don't know about the menu A boob'. Last time I was in an old folks
home was the Vet's home in Orting. My uncle, a WW1 vet was there.
Pretty nice place to a juvenile's eyes.

Hank, I know you are being purposely dense, but I'll tell you one more time why he's a pussy, and this will be the last time.

He never would have chased down and confronted Trayvon, had he not been armed, because he's a pussy.

It's also hard to call it "self-defense" when you chase someone down and pick a fight.

I've known guys like that over the years...guys who start fights in bars and such, and when theyr'e about to get their asses kicked they tell the other guy they're going to call the cops...or, in Zimmerman's case, pull a gun.

Know what we called those guys?

Pussies.

Fish on...

Todd

I dunno...but that's what a trial is for, to hear the evidence and divine the facts, as best the jury can.

The "picked a fight" part is going to be in contention...the "chased him down" part is right there in the 9-1-1 call.

The confrontation may or may not have been about race (it's pretty clear to me that Zimmerman wouldn't have likely chased down you or me, Hank, had we been walking around with Skittles, he was clearly looking for black guys, since that's what the thieves he had seen had been), but he obviously had decided that Trayvon was a thief with no evidence whatsoever except that he was black and was walking down the street.

After deciding that he was a thief, he then confronted him, and there's no question about that.

There was a struggle, and an innocent kid was killed by Zimmerman with a gun. Also not in contention.

That looks a lot like manslaughter right there, no matter what happened between chasing him down and shooting him...and if there is any evidence that Zimmerman started the fight, then it sounds like murder.

Looking forward to hearing some facts.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. He won't have to plea to manslaughter, or walk...juries can find lesser included charges from murder, and manslaughter would be there.

At this point, the "innocent kid" descriptor doesn't seem quite right.

I'm sure it doesn't...to you.

To the rest of the civilized world it is not suspicious to be walking down the street eating Skittles and drinking an iced tea, even if he is black.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd spinning......a non-event.
kid, troubled young man, Treyvon, any number of others are descriptive, but "innocent kid" just doesn't work if you want to be objective.

Maybe the question to ask is, "Todd, would you volunteer to take Zimmerman's job?"

I know I would be grateful if I was one of those neighbors, considering the frequency of break-ins, knowing that someone was watching out for my place and packed the heat to protect "us".

I can hear it now though, "911? Hi, this is Todd again. I'm calling from a friend's phone. Mine is broken. About a half hour ago, I was calling the cops when the suspicious guy I was calling about attacked me. I barely got away. Good thing I had my phone to throw at him. No, sorry, I don't know what he looked like. He was wearing a hoodie. Hurry!"

First of all, you have seen my place....does it look or even seem like I would live in a gated community or anything similar? But you're welcome to come on by in the middle of the night and see whether or not my security is secure enough. If you can read and comply, you should be OK.....if you can't......well, I likely won't be very "neighborly".

I'm fine with neighborhood watch groups, I'm fine with a neighborhood captain doing it...but if some shitferbrains accosted one of my kids who was walking down the street with Skittles, I'd go tell him to stuff his gun up his a$$ and pull the trigger, and if he did pull his gun out, he better be ready to shoot it or I'd stick it up his a$$ for him and pull the trigger.

What if it was your kid walking thru one of his friend's neighborhoods and some dude who lives there and was the "block captain" chased him down and pulled a gun on him? Blame it on your kid for getting shot?

Yeah, right...

Fish on...

Todd

I know that Zimmerman was following Martin, what constitutes chasing?

You are droll Todd. Maybe that's what Trayvon tried.

Bad judgement. Bullets have no fear.

There's no evidence at all about when he got his head bashed, if he got his head bashed, or when he shot Trayvon...

Fish on...

Todd

Hank, that's a photo, that may or not be Zimmerman, that may or may not have been taken at the time, of injuries that may or may not have been caused by Trayvon..."evidence" is what will be admitted and/or proven at trial.

Fish on...

Todd

That's different than the photo, which may not even be Zimmerman.

And...none of what you just listed has a whole helluva lot to do with justifiable homicide.

Fish on...

Todd

If Zimmerman didn't exist he couldn't have pulled the trigger. Viola!
He exists. There is some straw clutching going on to support an opinion
that 'the poor kid and his skittles were victimized by Zimmerman.'
Guess we will have to wait and see.
I wonder where they will find a jury of Zimmerman's peers.

You have to reasonably think your life is in danger...which means that a reasonable person would conclude that your life is in danger...you don't get to decide that for yourself based on whatever standard you like.

You seem to be very skeptical about anything and everything that involves chasing Trayvon down and confronting him for no reason whatsoever, even when the 9-1-1 call confirms that it happened exactly that way, and also seem to accept wholeheartedly that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, was bashing his head into the ground, and that Zimmerman had to shoot him to save his own life, for which conclusion there is very little evidence at all save for Zimmerman's own story.

That brings me back to the very beginning of this argument, which is that folks are willing to make their minds up based on political beliefs rather than anything at all like facts or evidence.

The evidence will be presented to a jury, will be distilled down into relevant facts, and the law will be applied to them...then we will know what happened as well as possible.

Until then saying that Zimmerman was in fear for his life or was having his head bashed in is as reasonable or logical as saying spacemans did it.

Fish on...

Todd

There is zero evidence that his life was in danger at all.

Fish on...

Todd

Yeah, but it's totally objective on your part...and there's no evidence that he was sitting on him or bashing his head on the ground, either.

I've bled more from a shaving cut, and I didn't pull out my piece and shoot my razor...and getting your [Bleeeeep!] beat, even if that's what happened, doesn't mean your life was in danger...that's for when you are about to be killed, not beat up by a kid.

If it was justifiable homicide to shoot someone who is beating your [Bleeeeep!] because you deserve it (or even if you don't), then there would be a few million more dead people every year with no repercussions.

Again, that's why pussies shouldn't be allowed to own guns, because pussies think they can use a gun to get out of a situation that they are in because they are pussies, and that they are magically transformed into tough guys because they have a gun.

Fish on...

Todd

Some pretty thin lines there. If someone is kicking my [Bleeeeep!] in a fight I didn't start, a reasonable person should treat that as a threat to their life. I think you would be an idiot not to. Interpretation of the law says application of deadly force is reasonable in that context.

Now if the person doing the [Bleeeeep!] kicking is acting in self defense, that changes the facts. Change the facts, change the answer. Todd's point, which is good one, is that the facts of the case are not yet known.

I agree with you in most every other instance Todd. The conclusions that some, even most draw based on speculation, conjecture, and even whim are pretty ridiculous.

You can see why these dolts vote the way they do. Completely out of touch with society and reality.

Explain why it isn't Trayvon who had the right to "stand his ground"?

Is following at a distance defined as chasing? Or did Zimmerman chase and grab Martin?

Had to edit your statement there a bit Todd as there's more than one type of person that fits what you just said.

Morons.

If you think carrying a gun makes you any more "safer" in this world, and can get one out of a any situation they put themselves in, then they are simply a moron.

In this case, both parties involved in this incident fall under either a) or b)

a) Don't put yourself in that situation.
b) Don't put yourself in that situation.

Both of them were morons.

Last I check Martin's first name was Trayvon. Once again you prove my point. Like debating a kid who's still into blocks.

Seems pretty obvious that most who have hard opinions on this one support one of the two regardless of the facts. It would not have been tough to predict that Todd would be the Trayvon supporter. Only Sharpton would have been easier to predict..seems that the far left supports Trayvon, facts or no, and the right supports Zimmerman ,facts or no. Starting from that instant support the arguments all attempt to support those preconceived notions.

so when you try to help a neighborhood riddled by break ins, and burglaries, you become a maniac?

that would be the logic ....

Some simple minds here. Some seem to believe that if you simply meant well then the outcome is justified.

that goes for both parties...

fact: none of us were there, so all this bullsh!t is just speculation...

fact: none of us were there, so all this bullsh!t is just speculation...

fact: Martin may or may not have done something wrong..

fact: Zimmerman may or may not have done something wrong..

fact: the jury will have to figure this clusterphuck out, not us..

fact: none of us were there, so all this bullsh!t is just speculation....

Never bring skittles to a gun fight. More sage advice...

Interesting observation by Grizz that most of the liberals here think Martin is the innocent party while the conservatives think Zimmerman is the innocent one. And to think I just read the other day that Ann Coulter maintains that libs, or Democrats at least, are racists, and that the Republicans are not racially biased. Funny world indeed.

I'd like to know how the fight started. In my opinion I think Zimmerman confronted him and asked what was up and then Trayvon started beating Zimmerman up.

Sg, it appears the you just played the race card?
just sayin
Where do you get any racially biased remarks? Maybe I missed them.

While basically true, you left out the part that Zimmerman also filed a restraining order against her and they both talked to the police accusing the other of the aggressive behavior. In the end no charges were filed against either party.

Or maybe she did since he broke off the engagement? Either way there was no charges so I doubt it will help prove much.

So he assaulted a bus driver and that is not violence? And you call Hank stupid.

It sounded to me like George quit running after the kid and lost him when the dispatcher told him to.

Good luck fishing Ranty moo.
btw
Don't let any facts in this issue cloud your preconceptions.

Too bad Trayvon, instead of having Skittles, didn't have a cannon of his own...then when Zimmerman chased him down and accosted him, Trayvon could have shot him dead and availed himself of the Stand your Ground law.

Funny how killing someone makes you innocent, but being armed with Skittles and being dead makes it your fault.

This is the world that right wing gun nuts would have you live in.

Fish on...

Todd

If Trayvon had been chased down and shot the guy chasing him I would be standing just where I am in stating he had that right. Good for him if he had someone with a gun chasing him down and he felt his life was in danger. Now the same goes the other way. If getting ones head beat into the ground caused Zimmerlooser to think he had to defend himself then so be it as well.

Race, color or creed has nothing to do with it. No matter how much you wish it was about racism and would like to make it so. Only racism in this is those who feel the need to make it a race issue. Trying to tie anyone who states people have the right to protect themselves with racists.

The truely racial component is the fact that a black man could have chased down a half hispanic/half white kid and shot him in the exact manner when the kid was pounding his head into the ground and it would have never made it out of the local paper. If you heard about it you would have thought nothing of it and likely stated he had the right to do so. My oppinion would be the same but since it was the other way around it is national news and we are on our way to riots in the streets. I guess we are still not post-racial in this country.

There's no mention of race whatsoever in my last post...just the observation that you can get off scot free for shooting someone, but it's your fault if you are accosted by some zealot with a gun while walking down the street eating Skittles.

If eating candy, wearing a hoody, getting in trouble at school, or petty theft were grounds for being killed, most everyone posting on this thread would be dead already.

Fish on...

Todd

You don't have to be terribly bright to figure out the media made
this tragedy a race issue. Nothing like creating your own news
scoops. Great journalism.
If the scenario had been reversed it wouldn't have even made the
late late news. sad but true.
Black mugs white or several blacks rape, set on fire, and kill a
couple of whites and it's not news, just natural occurences.

The funny thing is that the only time you hear crap like this (except here on PP thanks to Illy or Hank) is when you watch FauxNews...even while the "MSM" they are decrying is reporting the same stories.

The reason why FauxNews watchers actually believe that FauxNews is the only outlet that "reports" on stuff, and that the MSM ignores all these important stuff, is that those FauxNews watchers never watch anything else.

"You won't see this on the MSM!"...except, of course, if you actually watch any other outlet, where you will see the same stories.

What FauxNews and their sycophants don't want you to know is that they are just as much part of the mainstream media as any other media outlet...they're about as "rogue" as Sarah Palin, and as much of a "maverick" as John McCain...which is to say, not at all.

Fish on...

Todd

"You won't see this on the MSM!"...except, of course, if you actually watch any other outlet, where you will see the same stories.


Try watching Politics Nation with Al Sharpton.

Which, not surprisingly, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what I was talking about...but, Hank, please don't tell me that you are going to argue in favor of the veracity of what you hear on FauxNews!

Fish on...

Todd

A judge in Florida ruled that the Stand your Ground law didn't apply in a case where a woman being choked by her husband escaped him, got a gun, and fired a warning shot into the ceiling as he was coming towards her...she didn't even shoot it at him, and got popped for assault...

Judge said "stand your ground" didn't apply, and she got 20 years for assault with a deadly weapon.

If it doesn't apply in that case, when can it ever apply? Hell, she didn't even shoot him.

Did she have to kill him to get protection from the law?

If so, then that backs up my claim above that it would be better to kill someone than to be guilty of walking around with Skittles, since the kid walking around with Skittles is dead, and if the law applies the guy who shot him will walk.

Fish on...

Todd

It's also interesting that Zimmerman wouldn't have had to "stand his ground" if he had just stood his ground, instead of chasing Trayvon down.

Zimmerman was already "escaped"...he purposely went and put himself in danger, then claims it wasn't his fault thru the Stand Your Ground law.

That is where this law and its application get more and more stupid.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd one of the groups at Westlake Mall this afternoon is there supporting Trayvon..not sure if they are packing heat but you should beat feet down there to hold up a sign...lots of other ranting going on in between breaking windows and such...Bring your I hate Fox sandwich board...here's a look at your far left comrades>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47252873#47252873

It's even on your favorite channel...the most objective news authority...I think I saw Todd on this video with a sledge hammer???

grizzwald, you have managed to make 403 posts contributing exactly "zero" to the board, except to make me look even smarter than I am by saving your posts to always talk about mine, and sounding like a total dipshit every time you do.

Nice job.

Fish on...

Todd

Isn't it great!!! you are so full of yourself I can't stand it....LOL!!! What's with the "contribute to this board" crap?" Contribute to what? A bunch of people arguing nonsense? You thinking you are smart and objective and everyone else is stupid and biased...hahahaha..you crack me up!!!

And more...just can't help yourself, can you.

I don't need to be full of myself...virtually every post you make has my name in it, followed by a moronic statement...you're like my cyber-stalker, only creepier.



Fish on...

Todd

I'd far rather consume news from a source where individuals get dismissed when they deceive viewers/readers, than consume news from a source where that sort of internal check/balance doesn't exist.

You're right Todd..this board is not a vehicle for serious discussion normally but a place to spew crap back and forth...I know you are generally a smart guy with good intentions. I also know the internet chat sites are a convenient distraction from serious things like work and shouldn't be taken too seriously......so keep on arguing your agenda and I will laugh to myself more and make fun of you here less. OK?

No need to ask me if it's "ok"...you can do what you like...and if that counts as "making fun", you aren't too good at it

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Note that on this thread there is some actual conversation taking place, with a few of your senseless posts and Illy's non-pithy insensible posts scattered about.

It was just the opposite so far as FauxNews goes...there the talent was fired for objecting to their superiors making up facts.

Hank, there's actual reporting of facts, and we agree that FauxNews does little to none of that.

There's opinion based on facts, and FauxNews does very little of that, too.

FauxNews' main activity is editorial opinion based on non-facts, schit that they make up.

The only worthy use of that type of entertainment is to further incite the idiots who believe it is actual reporting of facts...evidence of which can be seen all over this here website as dudes parrot, virtually word for word, the editorials based on made up "facts" from FauxNews, Limbaugh, Beck, and the rest.

Spin on facts is what every person in the world does...making up facts, then spinning that garbage is what FauxNews does.

Fish on...

Todd

thanks for noticing. I really didn't believe you were a Cretin until
you took a stance with the rabble rousers.
This bullchit gets tiresome, bring on the trial.
What a waste. Odd.

The "bias to the left" is completely made up, too...and every study of the phenomena says so...not surprisingly, you hear about it on FauxNews, from Rush, and from Beck, too...not the studies, mind you, but the myth.

Fish on...

Todd

You copied/pasted from Wikipedia, but failed to add in all the parts about the criticism of those studies, the poor protocol they used, and then the many others that found exactly the opposite...though, to be fair, I wouldn't have expected anything other than that

Fish on...

Todd

Dood...don't lecture me about "objectivity"...for real.

Journalists do tend to be educated, and educated people do tend to vote Democratic...that's a given.

That, though, doesn't make their reporting biased...watch FauxNews and you'll see right wing talking head after right wing talking head after right wing talking head, with the only "balance" being the Tea Party dingbats that are even farther to the right of them...not to mention sounding just like Ari Fleischer for eight years of Bush.

Watch CNN, for instance, and even if the reporter tends to vote Democratic, you'll see her paneling with people from both sides...and you'll see them and her just as likely to bag on Obama if they don't like what he's saying or doing, whether they are lefties or not.

Same goes with network news, the Sunday news shows, and on NPR.

Fish on...

Todd

Here's the rest of the article you cited, Hank...in case someone may want to read more than just the couple of paragraphs you cherry picked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States

Self-described as "the first successful attempt at objectively quantifying bias in a range of media outlets and ranking them accordingly,[22] a study by political scientists Tim Groseclose of UCLA and Jeff Milyo of the University of Missouri at Columbia. The study's stated purpose was to document the range of bias among news outlets.[23] The research concluded that of the major 20 news outlets studied "18 scored left of the average U.S. voter, with CBS Evening News, The New York Times and The Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal, while only the Fox News "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter." The study also identified the Drudge Report as "left of center". In this study, "left" and "liberal" are treated as synonyms, and are identified with think tanks cited by Congressional members of the Democratic Party, while "right" is identified with think tanks cited by Congressional members of the Republican Party. The report also states that the news media show a fair degree of centrism, since all but one of the outlets studied are, from an ideological point of view, between the average Democrat and average Republican in Congress. This may be because organizations perceived to be extremist may have difficulty getting access to news material such as interviews.

The study met with criticism from many outlets, including the Wall Street Journal,[24] and Media Matters.[25] Criticisms included:
Different lengths of time studied per media (CBS News was studied for 12 years while the Wall Street Journal was studied for four months).
Lack of context in quoting sources (sources quoted were automatically assumed to be supporting the article)
Lack of balance in sources (Liberal sources such as the NAACP didn't have conservative or counter sources that could add balance)
Flawed political positions of sources (Sources such as the NRA and RAND corporation were considered "liberal" while sources such as the American Civil Liberties Union were "conservative".)

Mark Liberman, a professor of Computer Science and the Director of Linguistic Data Consortium at the University of Pennsylvania, has argued that there were a number of statistical flaws in this study.[26][27] According to Professor Liberman, the model chosen leads to "very implausible psychological claims, for which no evidence is presented." He argued that "many if not most of the complaints directed against G&M (Groseclose and Milyo) are motivated in part by ideological disagreement – just as much of the praise for their work is motivated by ideological agreement. It would be nice if there were a less politically fraught body of data on which such modeling exercises could be explored."[26]

*************

The NRA is "liberal"? Hell, they're always jabbering away on the news, and every time they are on it gets counted as "liberal bias"? Same with the RAND Corporation? The giant defense contractor/think tank? Really?

Sounds like your "study" might have a "stupid bias".

More?

********************

Conservative bias in the media occurs when conservative ideas have undue influence on the coverage or selection of news stories.

Possible causes of conservative bias include:
Media Concentration: A handful of corporate conglomerates (e.g., (Disney, CBS Corporation, News Corporation, TimeWarner, and General Electric) own the majority of mass media outlets in the United States.[28][Need quotation to verify] Such a uniformity of ownership means that stories which are critical of these corporations are in some cases underplayed in the media.[29][Need quotation to verify]
Capitalist Model: In the United States the media are operated for profit, and are usually funded by advertising. Stories critical of advertisers or their interests may in some cases be underplayed, while stories favorable to advertisers may be given more coverage.[30][Need quotation to verify]
Conservative Media Organizations: Certain conservative media outlets such as NewsMax and WorldNetDaily describe themselves as news organizations, but are generally seen as promoting a conservative agenda.[31][32][33]





Studies done by FAIR argue that the majority of media citations come from conservative and centrist sources.
Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has argued that accusations of liberal media bias are part of a conservative strategy, noting an article in the August 20, 1992 Washington Post, in which Republican party chair Rich Bond compared journalists to referees in a sporting match. "If you watch any great coach, what they try to do is 'work the refs.' Maybe the ref will cut you a little slack next time."[34] A 1998 study from FAIR found that journalists are "mostly centrist in their political orientation";[35] 30% considered themselves to the left on social issues compared to 9% on the right, while 11% considered themselves to the left on economic issues compared to 19% on the right. The report argued that since journalists considered themselves to be centrists, "perhaps this is why an earlier survey found that they tended to vote for Bill Clinton in large numbers." FAIR uses this study to support the claim that media bias is propagated down from the management, and that individual journalists are relatively neutral in their work.

Scholars Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman argue that the logic in some of the conservative arguments are flawed. They argue that comparing the media product to the voting record of the journalists is akin to thinking auto-factory workers design the cars they help produce. Indeed, they argue that the media owners and news makers are the ones with an agenda, and they argue that this agenda is subordinated to corporate interests that they view as often leaning right.[36]

A report "Examining the 'Liberal Media' Claim: Journalists' Views on Politics, Economic Policy and Media Coverage" by David Croteau, from 1998, calls into question the assumption that journalists' views are to the left of center in America. The findings were that journalists were "mostly centrist in their political orientation" and more conservative than the general public on economic issues (with a minority being more progressive than the general public on social issues).[37]

Rupert Murdoch, the CEO of News Corporation (the parent of Fox News), self-identifies as a libertarian. Rupert Murdoch has exerted a strong influence over Fox News.[38][39]

In 2008 George W. Bush's press secretary Scott McClellan published a book in which he confessed to regularly and routinely, but unknowingly, passing on lies to the media, following the instructions of his superiors, lies that the media reported as facts. He characterizes the press as, by and large, honest, and intent on telling the truth, but reports that "the national press corps was probably too deferential to the White House", especially on the subject of the war in Iraq.[40]

E. J. Dionne, Jr., Op Ed columnist for The Washington Post, writes: "For all the talk of a media love affair with Obama, there is a deep and largely unconscious conservative bias in the media's discussion of policy. The range of acceptable opinion runs from the moderate left to the far right and cuts off more vigorous progressive perspectives."[41]

[edit] Cited Allegations

[edit] Fox News

See also: Fox News Channel controversies

According to former Fox News producer Charlie Reina, unlike the AP, CBS, or ABC, Fox News's editorial policy is set from the top down in the form of a daily memo: "frequently, Reina says, it also contains hints, suggestions and directives on how to slant the day's news – invariably, he says, in a way that's consistent with the politics and desires of the Bush administration." [42] Fox News responded by denouncing Reina as a "disgruntled employee" with "an ax to grind."[42][42]

According to the December 18, 2010 issue of The Atlantic, "One alleged news network fed its audience a diet of lies, while contributing financially to the party that benefited from those lies. Those who work for Fox News are not working for a journalistic enterprise. They are working for the communications department of a political party." [43]

[edit] Kenneth Tomlinson and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting

Kenneth Tomlinson, while chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, commissioned a $10,000 government study into Bill Moyers' PBS program, NOW.[44] The results of the study indicated that there was no particular bias on PBS. Mr. Tomlinson chose to reject the results of the study, subsequently reducing time and funding for NOW with Bill Moyers, which many including Tomlinson regarded as a "left-wing" program, and then expanded a show hosted by Fox News correspondent Tucker Carlson. Some board members stated that his actions were politically motivated.[45] Himself a frequent target of claims of bias (in this case, conservative bias), Tomlinson resigned from the CPB board on November 4, 2005. Regarding the claims of a left-wing bias, Bill Moyers asserted in a Broadcast & Cable interview that "If reporting on what's happening to ordinary people thrown overboard by circumstances beyond their control and betrayed by Washington officials is liberalism, I stand convicted."[46]

[edit] Authors

Several authors have written books on conservative bias in the media, including:
Eric Alterman wrote What Liberal Media? The Truth About Bias and the News, (2003) in which he disputes the belief in liberal media bias, and suggests that over-correcting for this belief resulted in conservative media bias.[47]
Al Franken wrote Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, (2003), in which he argues that mainstream media organizations have neither a liberal nor a conservative political bias, but there exists a right-wing media that seeks to promote conservative ideology rather than report the news.[48]
Jim Hightower in There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos (1997; ISBN 0-06-092949-9) uses humor to deflate claims of liberal bias, and gives examples of how media support corporate interests.
David Brock wrote The Republican Noise Machine (2004).
Amy Goodman wrote Standing up to the Madness: Ordinary Heroes in Extraordinary Times.
Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky wrote Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (1988, 2002).
Robert W. McChesney and John Nichols (journalist) wrote Our Media, Not Theirs: The Democratic Struggle Against Corporate Media (2002).
Michael Parenti wrote Inventing Reality: the Politics of News Media (1993).

*******************
Just a little more to "fair and balance" your little piece of the article

Fish on...

Todd

I didn't mention MSNBC at all...you did...in the usual "yeah, but look what__________does!"...fill in the blank with whatever you can to make it look like your team's failings are the same as everyone else's.

MSNBC is full of spin...but not full of people in the "newsroom" literally making up facts, like FauxNews does...including FauxNews constantly reporting on the made up facts that "the mainstream media" is the enemy (when they report on the same stories, only using facts), and that there is a "liberal media bias"...

Fish on...

Todd

Who told you that...Bill O'Reilly?

Again, it doesn't matter...I didn't even bring up MSNBC, you did in order to say that they're just like FauxNews, which they are most decidely not...and having nothing to do with your two paragraphs copied from a long article on media bias.

Fish on...

Todd

The problem is that I know that MSNBC is full of spin, and don't watch it to get my "news" or "facts"...and far less people do than watch Fox for that exact same thing...news and facts.

Hear about the "left wing media bias"? You probably heard about it from one of a very few sources, all of which are pathological liars...look at all the studies, including the *one* you cited (which has been discredited, by the way)...but that doesn't stop Fox, or right wingers in general, of just accepting it as the truth.

Why would they accept it blindly? Do they believe it when they see it on Fox? Do they want it to be true so badly that they won't bother checking to see if it's real? Do they hear it enough on all the right wing tv and radio they listen to that it's just been hammered into their brains, a la Bush "jettisoning the propoganda" (by repeating lies so many times that they get ingrained)?

There is no liberal media bias...period.

Any objective look at it has said so, and often finds, in fact, that when you combine the right wing talking heads (with no balance) to the left wing talking heads (who most often offer up differing and opposing positions), there is actually a right wing media bias.

Don't like it?

Sorry.

Call Hannity and complain...I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you something you want to hear, even if it's not true.

Fish on...

Todd

Look, maybe Zimmerman did follow Trayvon to ensure he wasn't breaking into a house or something BUT he lost him as the 911 tape explains. So where did Trayvon go? To eat his skittles, or make a devious plan to lose Zimmerman and beat the crap out of him when he wasn't looking resulting in a broken nose and bloodied head.

Hey Hank,

I agree that MSM is biased toward the left. The explanation is pretty simple. Along with Todd's mention that journalists tend to be educated and educated folks in general lean left, the other important consideration is that the center of the Republican party used to be about where the conservative side of the Dems are these days. The Dems have moved slightly more left, and the Rs have moved way further to the right, ergo the complete lack of environmental values, significant reduction of social values, and the tendency to rah rah the "have mores" to the exclusion of middle class values. In order for MSM to be balanced, they'd have to adopt some loony planks to the platform, as it were.

Sg

Todd........


THAT belongs in your sig line, Todd!
It's you in a nutshell.

If you don't use it, I will.

With the co-opting of the Republican Party by the TeaParty lunatics (and other assorted lunatics), anything left of Atilla the Hun is going to be "biased to the left"...to the left of the Republicans, at least.

Thinking Republicans were lamenting the loss of their party long ago when their party of choice abandoned any pretense of fiscal responsibility...now they've been overrun by social fruitcakes that make Sanitorium seem like a viable leader.

Scary.

Fish on...

Todd

You are truly dillusional. Fiscal Responsibility and Democrat doesn't exactly ring any bells, Bucko.....How is our State of affairs? Republican influenced? yea? nay?

The "liberal media bias" is accepted as gospel by those on the right with little or no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Every reporter has biases...no matter what their political stripe...but most tend to be fair and balanced, anyway, to borrow a phrase.

"Liberal Media Bias" has just been said...ad nauseum by those on the right...that even without any factual basis behind it, it is just accepted because they want to believe it, and they've heard it forever.

Slabby, you can have the sig line...or, better yet, use the five minutes it would take to change it to go out and find the actual evidence of the famed "liberal media bias"...but I'll let you know in advance, you will mostly find Hank's discredited "study", and a whole bunch of studies and papers showing that it doesn't actually exist.

Yeah, the studies are done by, ya know, educated people and stuff, professors and other "liberal elitists"...(that's me giving you your out when you can't find any actual liberal bias beyond right wingers assuring you that it exists).

Another consideration is find out what percentage of the electorate overall listens to Fox, Rush, Beck, etc....not only is it the great majority of right wing voters, but they have a stranglehold on it...and their viewers/listeners actually believe they are hearing the truth from those garbage mongers.

Not only is there no "liberal media bias" to speak of, there is also no overarching left wing pretend facts talking points memo that controls what all the liberal reporters say...those right wing talking heads, besides being full of schit and believed wholeheartedly, have some sort of a group hallucination with the truth, whereby they all have the same short list of almost word for word lies that they tell, which in turn are parroted by their true-believing listeners and viewers.

One only need to look at political websites, or the retarded right wing email chain stuff that is copied over onto websites, or posted day and night on facebook...it's almost like the readership is trying to convince itself, too, by sharing the patently false ideas with the world.

Today's new one was getting half a dozen facebook postings of a picture of a little kid in a straw hat, with the caption that "Obama wants kids to stop doing chores!"...when actually it was about a Dept. of Labor proposed regulation, that Obama didn't write, that wasn't enacted, that would have prohibited children from working on farms...as jobs, that is, not from working on family farms, or "doing chores", but preventing children from being hired out to do farm work.

Wrong? Mostly. Misleading? Totally. An accident? Not in the least.

Why do it then?

Not surprisingly, there was a lot of chatter on Fox, and from Rush, purposely saying the same untruth last week...and now it's packaged up in cute little pictures and making the email and facebook rounds right now.

And...the right wingers who get it in their mailbox not only believe it, but send it on to everyone else, adding their own little bit of outrage and the injustice of it all...even though it wasn't even true to begin with.

Fair and Balanced?

You decide.

Fish on...

Todd

Excellent analysis.

Fish on...

Todd

I just like to use logic and facts...they take a bit longer to explain

Fish on...

Todd

Your arguments are much stronger when you don't make totalitarian comments. Just sayin.

You have points I can agree with, i.e., not all reporters do their job with obvious bias. Both sides have writers that are blatantly bias, however......and it is likely that those are the ones who draw the most attention. The crisis cry sells and media that doesn't sell, doesn't exist long.
I'm sure (without counting) that I personally have not watched Fox news more than a dozen times total. I did observe some ridiculous crap aired on Fox.....ridiculous. Whether or not that is it's norm, I can't tell you, but it turned me off.
My view of left leaning news channels (all of our local ones) is one acquired by observation. It is not consistently evident to me, but there are times when it is glaring.
I've been around a few blocks and have kids older than you, so I'm quite sure I can think for myself. I'll bet most all of us can.
And I will use your quote.

[/quote]So anybody who is educated and writes for conservative publications is a RWWJ? [/quote]

No Hank, I don't. While not on my regular reading list, William F. Buckley of the National Review is an educated conservative writer I've long admired, even when I don't agree with him. This pre-dates 1996 by quite a bit; not sure what you intended to reference there.

A good article I started was titled, "What would WF Buckley think of today's GOP?"

Sg

Seems to me if you are a RWWJ then you really can't call yourself educated.

I'm guessing that no one brought up "suicide by watch captain" because in a 29 page thread full of retardation, it would have been the most stupid thing to say yet.

Fish on...

Todd

Mostly.

Fish on...

Todd

Who are you to question what a mod can or cannot do?

I refuse to take credit for all the non-retarded parts...there are others posting here who don't think being black in a hoodie eating Skittles is a shootable offense by a pussy fired ex-rent-a-cop...

Fish on...

Todd

What about a Scandinavian wearing Grundens while eating Lutefisk?

Is there such a thing as a breathalizer lock for a keyboard?

just askin'




Wait, come to think of it.......this board might get awfully quiet.
Never mind.....bad idea.

I agree...but it's not like Trayvon ran down Zimmerman...

Fish on...

Todd

I just saw that same report on Fox...word for word.

Seems to me as soon as George quit following Trayvon because he LOST him that is when the 911 call was close to ending and also when the fight happened. I could be led to believe Trayvon lost Zimmerman on purpose and decided to assault Zimmerman from behind.

You wouldn't have to be led to believe that.......only doubt that the prosecution's version isn't accurate. If he comes on like Todd.....Zimmerman walks. Past posts can be attributed to bragging, exaggeration, embellishment, etc. and carry little, if any, credence.
Despite the noise here, the trial will be ........ whatever it will be.

"probably" and "for sure" don't quite go together?

Yeah, kid with Skittles ran and hid, lured dimwit with gun in close, then coerced him into shooting him...you guys are fuckin geniuses.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Just kidding. Your fuckin idiots.

You too, Toddler.

The "kid" knew he had a gun, right?

Good luck with that....and the rest of the spin.

Not good for the prosecution.



What Zimmerman, Martin medical reports tell us and the media didn't

By John Lott

Published May 16, 2012

| FoxNews.com


advertisement

The new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they don’t find.

First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martin’s injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound.

Zimmerman’s injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury.

It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmerman’s hands? Where are the bruises on Martin’s face or other parts of his body? The evidence paints a picture where Martin was the only person landing blows.

The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense. But if Zimmerman is to have justifiably used self-defense, he can’t have provoked Martin’s attack.

The affidavit filed by the prosecutor against Zimmerman was extremely weak and had many glaring omissions. It does not answer the most crucial question: Who attacked whom? All it states is: “Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.” “Confronted” does not mean “provoked” or “assaulted.” It may mean that Zimmerman merely followed Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood.

Surely Zimmerman had the right to investigate a strange person in his neighborhood. But, in any case, Zimmerman simply asking Martin why he was in the neighborhood doesn’t give Martin the right to start striking him or pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk.

Simple words do not justify hitting someone.

Anyway, it appears that Zimmerman didn’t even question Martin. The 911 tape of Zimmerman reporting a strange person in the area indicates that Zimmerman didn’t even try to ask Martin a question.

When the police operator told Zimmerman “we don’t need you to do that [following Martin],” Zimmerman appears to have stopped following Martin and agreed to go to where the police would be arriving.

The medical evidence implies that Zimmerman did not physically attack Martin and thus there was no justification for Martin to start hitting Zimmerman.

With the case unraveling, it makes the prosecutor’s behavior look even more outrageous. The prosecutor wasn’t required to go to the grand jury for the indictment, but the fact that she didn’t in such a high-profile case is troubling. Everyone knows how easy it is for a prosecutor to get a grand jury to indict, because only the prosecutor presents evidence and the standard of proof is very low.

A grand-jury indictment would have provided political cover; that charges were brought without one means that the prosecutor was worried that even a grand jury would not give her the indictment.

The Obama administration has been fanning the flames, and it isn’t just President Obama’s attempt to personalize the tragedy.

News reports surfaced Tuesday that the US Justice Department was pushing hard to charge Zimmerman, who is part black himself, with a hate crime because Martin was black. Such a charge can carry a life prison term or even the death penalty.

Yet, Zimmerman and his wife mentored two black children for free.

A recent Reuters report that interviewed Zimmerman’s neighbors found that both black and Hispanics viewed Zimmerman as someone who cared deeply about his neighbors and volunteered to head the community watch to help them.

The claim that Zimmerman referred to blacks as “f***ing coons” has long since been dropped.

Using this case for political purposes has already come at a real cost. In Gainesville, Florida; Oak Park, Illinois; Mobile, Alabama; Toledo, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Michigan; and possibly Norfolk, Va., blacks have attacked whites in what they think is revenge for Zimmerman attacking Martin because he was black, and those are just the cases where the perpetrators would make some comment such as “This is for Trayvon.”

The media has been partially responsible for this aftermath with its sensational reporting. Recent coverage has helped to balance things out, but responsible reporting requires still more.

Bottom line: the medical reports about George Zimmerman are revealing a lot more information than the media have so far let on.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/1...t#ixzz1v62JYMwq

Way to go media; always trying to make an issue out of race without any logical evidence, that goes for many other people and instituitions as well.

Still no winners present in this.

You wouldn't say that if you were in the Zimmerman family.

I know this is a result of cut n paste but also very applicable to any article from that website:

"FoxNews.com


advertisement"

And now for the article itself...............

I only had to read two lines in to discover the entire article is based upon pure conjecture:

"First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense."

at least now that it has been revealed that Zimmerman has black skinned members in his family, CNN and some of the black skinned kooks in congress and elsewhere have had to lay to rest the race issue. that schit was gettin' old.

the prosecutor over-charged the case as they always do. a man slaughter charge is all they really have at best and with the recent release of medical records, that charge may be a hill to high.

Zimmerman was not out of line asking questions of a guy walking around, looking suspicious, in the neighborhood he was hired to watch. the chain of events that followed simply got out of hand. that's it that's all.

Zimmerman will walk.
as he should.

He wasn't hired. Neighborhood watch is voluntary and awards you exactly zero extra rights as a citizen. So, yes, you are out of line attempting to stop and ask "questions of a guy walking around, looking suspicious, in the neighborhood" unless you witness him breaking a law.

Court records show George Zimmerman had a pair of black eyes, a nose fracture and two cuts to the back of his head after the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

The medical records were part of evidence released Tuesday that prosecutors have in the second-degree murder case against Zimmerman

Wrong again. He will have to prove it wasn't self defense. Just because you are scared of stuff doesn't give you the right to shoot.

You RWWJ's are masters at making sh!t up.
"knocked down and someone is sitting on your chest beating you"
Where is there proof of this? There isn't. None. Zero. Nada.

So you are saying a mysterious witness who saw the whole thing has stepped forward? Or are you making it up?

Seems you've never seen the instigator of a fight get more than he can handle.

The dispatchers recording is rock solid.

even if Zimmerman was stalking (you mean following) Martin, it doesnt give Martin the right to assault him... period...

A) Stalking someone is illegal.
B) Martin had a right to stand his ground.
C) What proof do you have that it was MArtin who was the assaulter?
D) You guys make sh!t up.

Nobody outside of the shooter and victim had any knowledge of a fight. Especially you. You make sh!t up.

no, Martin should have said what are you following me for? and then said, "im just going to my dads down the street"... but he didnt say that, and thats obvious...

there is tons of proof, like the fact that Zimmerman had ZERO damage to his hands, yet Martin had PLENTY of damage including torn skin on his knuckles... the fact that Martin didnt have any signs of facial trama, and Zimmerman had black eyes, a broken nose, and cuts on the back of his head...

the little sh!t thought he was being tough, whooped some a$$ and got shot.... thats why its a good idea to just keep your mouth shut, and dont start stuff with people.... if he would have just kept walking to his dads, with his MOUTH SHUT, he might still be on suspension from school right now... but hes not...

what are you Martins guardian angel?

where you there?

when was the last time you were in highschool?

where things different then?

did you have stupid tag names on twitter named "NoLimitNiqqa'?

do you even know what that means?

do you even know anything about No Limit?

i didnt think so...

heres a little reading you can do about one of the members of No Limit Records, a southern based rap label made in 1990... scroll down to the Steven Thomas case...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Murder

oh sh!t, i accidentally put an H in there... OOOPS..

didnt you spell FOR, FER yesterday?


seriously?

i put an H in where it shouldnt have been, and thats going to reflect my education and knowledge?

i would rather misspell a word, than be an ignorant retarded old bat, or some a$$hole that is probably living off his girlfriend all the while making false accusations of someone else doing it...

some peoples mutts....

Police had been called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times from January 1, 2011, to February 26, 2012.[50] Zimmerman was the caller on 12 of those calls in that time frame. Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, dozens of break-ins (at least one with a woman and infant upstairs) and one shooting. In September, Zimmerman was asked to head up a neighborhood watch. [50] The City of Sanford posted a "George Zimmerman 911 Call History" listing 46 calls by him between 2004 and the 2012 shooting.


402 times, in ONE year basically... that means that the place is HEAVILY populated with crime... would you want to know what someone who hasnt been seen as a regular around there was doing?

oh, and theres that lady that came up during a news thing, and said that "young black men" were the ones commiting the crimes....


oh yeah, guess what, she was black too...

and Aby, if you are working 40+ hours a week, how do you have the time to chase me around here all the time, and sit with your GF on the couch laughing?


stop lying...

oh, i made 40 dollars for 45 minutes of work today, tommorow will be another hundred for minor sh!t, like i said, what i do, is none of your business, if you want to keep it up, you will just make yourself look stupid in the end....

didnt mow a lawn retard, it was a fix on an irrigation system problem...

and im going to court for that ticket...

thats besides the point tho...

its really funny how everyone considers Martin just a "little kid"... if he would have shot Zimmerman, he would have been tried as an ADULT...smh, clueless...

a 10 zone irrigation system is hardly a "kink in a hose"... and mid 40s is hardly "old".... once again, Aby is talkin out of her a$$... get real ya putz....

that was just for today, i can easily make 200 a day if i did it for 6 hours, which should start in the summer when things start going crazy...

back to the case if you please...

If "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas every day of the year.

Time to start working on skills applicable for the other 9 monthes of the year, redhook.

Left unsaid in all these irrelevant remarks is that the State must prove that Zimmerman did NOT act in self defense. Zimmerman is the defendant. He doesn't have to prove anything, altho his defense is bolstered by any admissible evidence indicating he did act in self defense. For all the noise about the case, it's still a game too close to call. Which is probably why, at least partly, charges were filed.

So far there's plenty for both sides to exploit. That Martin had skinned knuckles and Zimmerman didn't doesn't mean Martin attacked or assaulted Zimmerman. All we can know from that at this point is that Martin hit Zimmerman. We can't even know for sure that Zimmerman didn't hit Martin. Not every punch results in skinned knuckles. And posting about trace THC in Martin's blood only shows how willing some are to inject and use(?) irrelevant information. The stuff hangs around in the system nearly two weeks. Good thing you kooks aren't crime investigators.

THC can hang around in your body far longer than nearly 2 weeks, it all depends on body fat, and consumption... if Martin smoked every day, and quit, he would still have trace amounts over a month after quitting... if he had 100 pounds of body fat, that time would increase...

He's pimped out 8 hours a day at the local gay bath house.

Don't fork with Hank's walking Abu, he built these thighs for pinching off the heads of pencil necked geeks.

LOL



Them streets of SF ain't for the timid....






You freakin guys crack me up....

wtf You're getting aboob horned up.

Hank has a nice Dan Wesson.

Indeed, Mansfield Frazier, a columnist for the Daily Beast, has suggested that it is the responsibility of the legal system to “avert a large scale racial calamity.” He has urged Zimmerman’s defense lawyer to become a “savior” by brokering a deal to plead his client guilty to a crime that “has him back on the streets within this decade.”

But it is not the role of a defense lawyer to save the world or the country. His job — his only job — is to get the best result for his client, by all legal and ethical means.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-...1#ixzz1vF53Gmty

Alan Dershowitz said that Angela Corey had ought to be shopping for her own crack legal team to defend her because he said she should be brought up on charges herself. Dershowitz said Corey was "irresponsible and unethical" in charging Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder. He said her affidavit was criminal in itself. He said there's simply nothing in the affidavit that would justify second degree murder. The elements of the crime weren't established.

We all know this charge was a rush-to-judgement brought on by the caterwauling from a libtard media and then a white-guilt complex had to kick in to prove that a racist motive alone resulted in a poor innocent black youth being shot to death.

Zimmerman having black skinned ancestors has muffled that trumped-up bullschit for the most part.

All charges against Zimmerman should be dropped.
Go home Erin Burnett and Anderson Cooper, there's nothing here to see.

Z is going to walk......

Typican media tempest in a teapot. But it sells better than the white
victim story line.

sucks when someone on dangerous drugs confronts someone else.....

No more assaults for Trayvon.

Aboob had a hard day at his minimum wage job at the gay bath house, handing out towels and blowing old fags.

Nice piece that Dan Wesson. Don't get excited A boob. piece in
this case, refers to a firearm.
btw if your cranial capacity has any relationship to your phallus
you should change your handle to quicksliver.

ive got a 629 classic 8 3/8ths inch that will do WORK if i catch some little bastard stealing my stuff again...

some people just dont understand how it is to have stuff like crime happen in their neighborhood, because they have never experienced it... and they are the people saying that Martin was just a "little kid, with skittles, and some iced tea".....

give me a phuckin break...

Got to love the 629, it's hard not to like a Smith.

no sh!t, things all stainless, and weighs a fvckin TON, if you are stupid enough to miss, you can throw the damn thing at them and put them in a coma

ive put 3 of 6 shots in the black with it at 50, the other 3 were just outside... it actually hurts me to shoot it, otherwise i would be better...

the 340 grains are no joke, and the 240s fly and thump with authority... not really a home defense gun tho, you will blow through your walls, your neighbors, and if right, the next neighbors.... thats what the 12 gauge in the corner with the 00Buck is for

Here's a nice one for sale.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=287220079

I haven't read this whole thread, but thought I'd toss this out, since there is no media influence........:snork: <------love this, Sol Duc...cracks me up!

the hoodie in question was black, not the innocent white portrayed.

The more that comes out the more the "kid" appears to be at least a wannabe punk......or should I say "appeared" as in past tense.

fixed it for ya

I'll be damned.. If Trayvon would have killed Zimmerman by beating him to death would he look as innocent as a kid walking down the road and eating Skittles? Would it have made news? Would he have said "I was just walkin down the road eating Skittles and the security gaurd approached me and asked me what I was doing, I held my ground and killed him, what's wrong with that?".

pussy that carry guns?

are you phuckin kidding me?

pussies are the ones that wont drive through a bad neighborhood like Hill Top and tak backroads..... even with a gun...

pussies are the ones calling other pussies, that would get knocked on their a$$, and then wanting so "get justice" the next day...

some people need to stop kidding themselves...

Aboob was probably raised by two lesbian Moms.

it's an inside (the closet) joke.

what did i tell you, you little flea bag?

oh i can deal with it, i already told you that....

keep pressing me fool...

now go sit down on the couch with that 50 year old muskrat you call a GF and laugh at each other ya fvckin dunce....

like i said, when you come back to WA, ill give you my address, and we can play XBOX and talk sh!t to people on the internet we dont know...

you turned that down...

so whos the pussy?

and you call me retarded... smh....

I don't know about that.......Boo Boo might dazzle 'em with a well thought out one-liner and the stalker may rethink his wayward ways.


or maybe he'd just shoot him.

Amazing! The two bitches are still calling each other pussy and threatening physical atrocities. Was funny for a while but the on-
going juvenile behaviour should eventually die, assuming there
is a bit of an adult buried in the psyche of either of the brats.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-zimmerman-witnesses-20120526,0,5699428.story

Four witnesses in Trayvon Martin case change their stories

Three key witnesses in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman change their accounts in ways that could damage the defendant. The fourth abandons her initial story altogether.

By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner

May 25, 2012, 8:08 p.m.
ORLANDO, Fla. — Evidence released last week in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard on the rainy February night when he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Three changed their stories in ways that could damage Zimmerman. One man who initially told police Martin was atop Zimmerman punching him "MMA-style" — a reference to Mixed Marital Arts — later said he was no longer sure about the punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.

A fourth witness abandoned her initial story — that she saw one person chasing another. Now she says she saw a single figure running.

They were re-interviewed in mid-March, after Sanford, Fla., police handed off the case to State Atty. Norm Wolfinger. The case changed hands again when Florida Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.

Zimmerman, 28, was arrested April 11 on a charge of second-degree murder. He has pleaded not guilty, claiming self-defense, and is out on bond awaiting trial.

Martin was staying with his father's fiancee, who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated community. Zimmerman called police to report him as a suspicious person. Then he followed Martin, who was returning from a convenience store with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea. An altercation ensued and Martin was shot in the chest.

The witnesses changed their stories in these key ways:

• Witness 2: A young woman who lives in the gated community was interviewed twice by Sanford police and once by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

She told authorities that she had taken out her contact lenses just before the incident. In her first recorded interview with Sanford police four days after the shooting, she told lead Investigator Chris Serino, "I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."

She stepped away from her window, and when she looked again, she "saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."

A week later, she added a detail when talking again to Serino: During the chase, the two figures had been 10 feet apart.

That all changed when she was re-interviewed March 20 by a state agent. That time, she recalled catching a glimpse of just one running figure, she told investigator John Batchelor, and she heard the person more than saw him.

"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white. I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses.... I just know I saw a person out there."

• Witness 12: A young mother who is also a neighbor in the town-home community never gave a recorded interview to Sanford police, according to prosecution records released last week. She first sat down for an audio-recorded interview with a state agent March 20, more than three weeks after the shooting.

During that session, she said she saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top.

"I don't know which one.... All I saw when they were on the ground was dark colors," she said.

Six days later, however, she said she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top, she told trial prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda during a 2 1/2-minute recorded session.

"I know after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their sizes; I think Zimmerman was definitely on top because of his size," she said.

• Witness 6: This witness lived a few feet from where Martin and Zimmerman fought. On the night of the shooting, he told Serino he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style."

He also said the one calling for help was "the one being beat up," a reference to Zimmerman.

But three weeks later, when he was interviewed by a state agent, the man said he was no longer sure which one called for help.

"I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk," he said.

He also said he was no longer sure Martin was throwing punches. The teenager may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground, he said.

Also
Trayvon Martin case: Details on Zimmerman injuries, but no answers
Documents shed more light on Trayvon Martin shooting
Trayvon Martin in video before confrontation with George Zimmerman
Trayvon Martin case: George Zimmerman waives right to speedy trial
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www.iUniverse.comHe did not equivocate about who was on top, however.

"The black guy was on top," he said.

• Witness 13: He is important because he talked with Zimmerman and watched the way he behaved immediately after the shooting, before police arrived.

After this neighbor heard gunfire, he went outside and spotted Zimmerman standing there with "blood on the back of his head," he told Sanford police the night of the shooting.

Zimmerman told him that Martin "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him," the witness told Serino. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie, and tell her what had happened.

In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with a state investigator and one with De la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.

Zimmerman's tone, the witness said, was "not like, 'I can't believe I just shot someone!' — it was more like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody' … like it was nothing."

*************

Sorry to interupt you two...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Fish on...

Todd

Just because somone is suspended from school, young and tall, and walking down the road eating skittles doesn't mean they're an angel.

Witness 12

I know after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their sizes; I think Zimmerman was definitely on top because of his size," she said.

"because a half truth is regarded by the law as a lie"

So the vast majority of your posts are lies.

I just read something from Dan and Todd on that other topic about glass houses and the inside of ones a-hole that stlgiveshead should take a look at.

Why? That was aimed at you RWWJ's.
BTW, who told you about my big stones?

Crazy kunt should be removed from the case, and face bar discipline for her call to Harvard.
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