Legal Pot

I'm just curious to see what everybody thinks about legal pot. I'm not a fan. I tried it once "back in the day", I wasnt impressed. I did vote for it mostly cause it may generate some tax revenue and maybe decrease the load on the police. But I dont want to constantly smell the stuff everywhere.

One thing I've never seen mentioned, if you own a pot shop what do you do with the money you get from drug sales? There are some very serious federal laws (Money Laundering) that have been around for years that prohibit banks from accepting drug money for deposit and also prohibit banks from facilitating drug sales.

According to these laws if your customer gives you a check you cant deposit it in a bank, same with cash.. you cant deposit that in the bank either. You cant have a card swipe terminal sponsored by a bank, that would be facilitating drug sales. These are "know your customer" laws and the bank cant use ignorance as an excuse.

As a practical matter, bankers are in the community, they will know who has a pot shop and where the $ came from.

Pot is a schedule 1 drug same as heroin, cocaine etc. Federal law takes precedence over any state laws. A bank would be insane to accept drug money. The monetary penalties can run into the millions. UBS was fined 700 million a few months ago for money laundering.

It will be interesting to see what the feds do. I dont see how they can ignore a wholesale violation of federal laws. Previously it was just medical pot, and somewhat limited.

One aspect of this which I would like to see a legal response on deal with the commerce clause of the constitution. If WA says you can grow, sell, and use regulated pot within WA then aren't the Feds supposed to butt out? Can't transport it across state lines. Maybe that is is where the money issue comes in; pot growers/distrubutors could only use banks who kept the funds in-state.

I thought that growing your own or purchasing it from a non-state licensed dealer was actually against this law? Maybe I am wrong, I don't smoke the stuff so didn't actually pay attention to all the details (only what the news said).

It's illegal to grow your own up here.

You'll be able to grow your own next year... For a small fee to the state of course...

I think legal pot is long overdue. Then again, I favor legalization of all currently illicit drugs. The war on drugs is a social and economic failure of massive proportion. Might as well try to outlaw possession, sale, and use of water. The drug laws are that stupid in terms of social benefits weighed against the massive social and economic costs.

Legal pot doesn't effect me personally. I voted for it, naturally, because I think it's fundamentally wrong for the gov't., as an arm of a segment of society, to be telling other people what they can or cannot do.

As far as the discrepancy between the state and federal laws, when enough states tell the fed to FO, the feds will eventually back off, just as it did to end Prohibition. Remember, government follows; it doesn't lead. Of course meanwhile the fed may make a big mess and screw things up royally that will have to be unraveled after the gov't. adjusts to reality.

I'm pretty open minded but legalized meth/heroin/cocaine/oxy -- I just can't see that being better. Do you know of any good examples (anywhere in the world) where this worked out okay?

+1 gazillion.....with everything.

IR,

No, I don't know of any examples. My position is based purely on pragmatism, lacking even an ounce of emotional content. The War on Drugs has been a monumental failure by any yardstick one cares to measure with. It has two primary beneficiaries, those in the business of manufacturing, processing, distributing, and selling drugs, and on the other side of the street, drug law enforcement agencies and parts of the criminal justice system and corrections that deal with drug offenses.

The correlation between drug use and the legality of drugs is assumed and not based on any empirical evidence. The choice to use drugs is seldom influenced by whether they are legal or not. Recent surveys regarding WA state's legalization of pot indicate only a slight prospective increase of use, likely a "curiousity" factor that will fade in a short time. The number one pathway to heroin use is completely unaffected by heroin's illegal status. Do you really think the choices your kids will make about drug use will be influenced by the legal status of drugs or by being educated about drugs and drug use?

Drug education is fairly well established as more effective than drug enforcement. Since there are few facts, only informed inference suggests that a combination of drug education and drug treatment/rehab will be both cheaper and more effective than drug enforcement has been. That's impossible to know without trying it, but we know for a fact that declaring drugs illegal and investing close to $200 billion a year in drug enforcement leaves us with a national record of drug use, drug addiction, drug incarceration, and a legacy of people dead from involvement in the drug trade. By what logical yardstick could legalization, education, and treatment produce a worse national social and economic outcome?

Sg

Shall we use underage drinking as an example? or smoking? or unprotected sex? or cleaning up their rooms.......or anything else?
C'mon Salmo.......we aren't talking about your angels....it's the other ones that just might do their own thing.

Portugal hasn't legalized drugs but de criminalized them 11 years ago. Seems it has worked out much better than our insane approach.

http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7

Only if it's a drug free company.

Sure Slab, use any example. Underage kids will still drink or smoke, which are already illegal. See how well making forbidden fruits illegal works? Hint: it doesn't! Smart kids will weight the potential risks against the potential (perceived) benefits, just like they always have. Not so smart kids will, well, they won't be so smart. Just like they always have. I agree that a few will try some things because they are legal that they wouldn't have if they were illegal.

Truth be known, I only know one peer who didn't touch drugs or alcohol because they were illegal, and a few who didn't during sports seasons because of coach's rules against drinking and smoking (we didn't have drugs at our school quite yet.). Declaring drugs or booze illegal has only slightly greater than zero effect on detering use among the young.

My angels weren't the only smart kids. The majority of their peer group was too. And just like always, there are a few who made really piss poor decisions, the ones who drank and drove, the one who tried tagging (graffiti art) on a wall next to a PSE transformer and got electrocuted, but not a single drug addict as far as they know, and they've been out of high school 13 and 16 years, respectively.

Sg

Well, we have kids that have been almost always on the good side of the line, one that has been just short of becoming a statistic in the "things to not do" category, and a couple of atypical "testers".

And I'll say this about all that.....the one who has always been the blood pressure raiser gave no heed to the "law", and even though he has advanced by leaps and bounds, there is still that belligerent defiance of legalities. No amount of prompting logical thought resounds with him. He is the youngest, and that goes with the territory to some degree.....but GET A FKN CLUE, KID.........LOL

It's not the "smart" kids that are the problem......never has been/never will be.........

But the mark left by them others....is why one group wants laws. But you knew that.

I voted for it. Now all the College students can relax and mellow out after school. And also for you guy's out there fishing.

Mf

And there ya' have it Slab. The smart kids will be smart, and some kids will make bad choices. It isn't the law that makes a difference when it comes to choosing to use pot or other drugs. Now that it appears we agree, why do you want to waste the energy, time, money, and trouble having drugs be illegal. You're succumbing to an emotional feel-good position instead of using logic. Now come on, join the smart side. There's always room for one more.

Way ta' go Hank. That dammmmn Obummer administration, just one more example of its ineptitude. Thanks for sharing. Probably all those leftover Bush appointees at DOJ no doubt. . .

Sg

It appears to me, Salmo, that what the "law" does is provide a means to hold some accountability for the lawless who would otherwise continue mayhem without consequence.

The effectiveness of jail time can be a deterrent after one expends enough of their life behind bars, I suppose. Monetary punishment is selective in its impact.....hurting the poor much more than the rich, but time behind bars provides an equal (or nearly so) learning experience.

You can't really believe that we don't need police to counteract survival of the fittest.

Voted for it, so did the wife. She's a probation officer and drug & alcohol counselor for juveniles. Alcohol is far and above more of an issue on her case load than MJ. I have no issues with MJ. Inhaled as a yute, once or twice. Never caused an issue for me.

As to the issues with money laundering and a challenge to federal law, I would agree with the OP that there are a bunch of issues because of this.

This is how the laws on prohibition were changed. States demanding their rights and the realization of a failed policy.

Two states down. 30+ states to go. Either a milquetoast reaction, or a gross overreaction, will likely be the catalyst that leads other states voting in their own initiatives.

milquetoast?



creative, for sure

I got a lot of good words.

Maybe for some folks. I've also seen many folks who are quite capable of "doing nothing" stone cold sober.

a little over my legal allowance,
but im enjoying myself...

Stocking up for a shortage??

I remember in college there was always one at the end of summer....

Good grief Slab; don't go being as dumb as KK says you are. Of course laws hold the lawless accountable. But why does growing, manufacturing, distributing, selling, possessing, or using drugs have to be a behavior for which there needs to be an accounting? You can legally drink yourself sh!tfaced, and society doesn't need you to account or face any adverse consequence UNLESS you behave in a way that poses a danger to society, like driving a car and hitting someone.

Now be smart and stay with me here a second while we reason with logic and not empty-headed emotion. Society is obliged to protect itself from actions by its members that are harmful to it (society) not the members engaging in actions that you may disapprove of. Society is not harmed by members who engage in the aforementioned - growing, manufacturing, distributing, selling, possessing, or using drugs. Society is only harmed when one of its idiot members decides to perform an action like DUI or shooting a competing drug seller, etc.

By legalizing drugs, all drugs, most of the actions that actually harm society become less likely to occur.

OK, are ya' following? I've demonstrated that roughly the same proportion of society that uses drugs when they are illegal will use drugs if they are legal. And hopefully you understand that it is socially stupid and pointless to hold people "accountable" (in your words) when their actions do not harm society, even if those people do harm themselves ( you are at least that much of a libertarian, aren't you?)

What society does need to hold people accountable for are actions that are actually harmful to the non-partaking members of society. And since numerous laws already cover that, nothing further is necessary.

No where have I suggested anarchy or survival of the fittest, sans police. Of course we need police, and it is the job of police to protect us (to the very limited degree they can) from those who perform actions that actually harm us. That institution is known as civilization.

Nonetheless, putting people in jail or imposing monetary fines for behaviors that are of little or no consequence to the rest of society is flat out stupid, not to mention costly, unproductive, and in the case of the war on drugs, counter-productive. If you do not understand this, I can only surmise that you are dumber than a box of rocks and that what KK says about you is pretty much spot on.

Sg

I've got some baking to do, it is the holidays after all...;)

the baking sounds like a Pun.....

you use that for cooking? we used to use the trimmings....

Anyone who's against the legalization of pot and either smokes cigarettes or drinks alcohol is a hypocrite...both of those kill far more users than pot ever has or ever will.

Most all the "bad things" that come from pot come not from pot, but from pot being illegal. Make it legal, the bad things go away.

Fish on...

Todd

Amen !

Yep

Only in America can the argument be made that adding drugs for public use is a good idea. Not only a good idea, but that it is stupid to think that clear thinking is less desirable.

One thing is for sure.......well, almost for sure....... we'll have the data to use for comparison in reasonably short order.

and Todd....cigarettes don't fk up your thinker, and the argument wasn't about users killing themselves......a point no one cares about......collateral damage is the issue at hand.

Sg you argue the issue like an old friend is being threatened. Doper?

Ok, Slappy...how about alcohol?

Care to compare how many more innocents have died due to alcohol consumption compared to pot? How about innocents that were shot with guns?

Should we now ban guns and alcohol?

Hell, if that's your barometer we should absolutely 100% without question...or exceptions...ban all religion immediately.

More innocent people have suffered "collateral damage" from shitheads practicing their religion than all drugs, guns, and bad beef combined.

Fish on...

Todd

alcohol? No, I've never had a problem with alcohol. You?

Great answer, dumshit.

Fish on...

Todd

The pot law is very NW because its more about telling the govt to quit telling people what they can and cannot do than it is about getting high. most of you tourist fukers don't recognize this because your kind did not come here 200 years ago to get away from the rest of the assholes on the east coast making all kinds of rules. All these regressive laws come from you tourists that have moved here in the last 50 years. You fuked up all the fishing and hunting too.

KK never did get that huffing glue thing right......He thought eating paste was the same thing.


Still does.

100% wrong.

+ 100%

But the breadth of things in which he is wrong is certainly impressive.

In reality, the indoor breeding that took place in the PNW in the 70's along with the BC seed distribution and "overgrow the government" movement of the mid to late 90's both had more influence than anything California did or has done.

California does certainly deserve a lot of credit for both the strides it made with medical marijuana and the quality of their outdoor product.

Hank

Why do you insist?

Outstanding!

Apparently your friends know as much about reality as you do.

Fish on...

Todd

I was, so that makes you much older than I am.

So Hank, you are saying that because your friend couldn't find weed in Tacoma in 1968, we must only have Cali weed here in WA in 2013.

Your logic is about as high caliber as other outspoken Republicans these days. Which is to say, it is the caliber of a cap gun.

Yea, the Cali tourists that have moved here have changed this place. My family didn't show up until 1896 but have managed to have roads named after them in 3 counties. Not a record but you might say we're locals. Of course, my Indian cousin's families showed up a bit sooner.
Hank - in 1968, we had the Sky River Rock Festival and LIghter than Air Fair and there were some bands there you may have heard of: http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=5425

Just when you think Hank couldn't make himself loook any dumber.

No pot in T-Town in the 60's
Please......

Hey.........he heard it from ONE guy, so it must be true.

And we're still using those strains from '68 up here, too................right?

i fu*king LOL'd

The quality of cheeba if through the roof up this way. people are straight up pot snobs...... I think the indoor revolution and crossbreeding has taken it up a step

Hankster, I think you new nickname should be Cap Gun.

It is perfect because we can't tell when you are being serious or not and it doesn't matter anyway because in the end you are just a source of loud noises.

Only on the Dark Side can I find someone who insists on being as dumb as Slab. Your box of rocks isn't missing you. If you'd been paying attention, which appears to be above your skill grade, no one suggested that ". . . adding drugs for public use is a good idea." That is crap you're making up apparently due to your lack of comprehension.

The drugs are already here and available to that segment of the public that wants them. What we are discussing is the legal status of the drugs. Declaring the drugs legal or illegal has only a little bearing on their availability, none on how good they are for people, and next to none on people's decision to use or not use. I guess this is hard for you to understand, so please read it two or three times.

And we are not saying that ". . . it is stupid to think that clear thinking is less desirable." Just the opposite in fact. Clear thinking, thinking logically and analytically, is how some of us learned that doing what we've been doing - the War on Drugs - over and over for decades and expecting a different result (definition of insanity, remember) is from a lack of clear thinking. I didn't realize until now that simple concepts of logic are beyond your grasp. I'm sorry for you.

Indeed, we will have data within a few years, and it may be possible to make some useful comparisons, but automatically assuming that is true is another of your examples of your unclear thinking.

And no, I'm not a doper. I'm a concerned American who absolutely hates ignorance, and am doing my best to stamp it out. You are making that very difficult, however. And I hate it even more when I have to help pay for that ignorance through my taxes.

Sg

Slamo G Layin it down on slabby and tellin it like it is, love it.

Truth is Slab, It really is difficult to find cold hard facts on the effects of marijuana, because it seems as if every article on the topic tries to support their point of view on the subject. There is a ton of BS out there one has to weed(pun) through, all the same BS which has likely succeeded in brainwashing you into making the statements you do.

The truth about Cigarettes is much more available, to those who care to look for the facts: Click me Slabby

Slab doesn't get that whole freedom thing. He'd like his own kid to carry a rap sheet for smoking weed.
Hankster.....your friend couldn't score because we don't sell to dweebs up here.
Joad is just a pinhead. No drug, legal or otherwise, can fix him.

And how many people smoke 20 cigarettes a day, versus how many smoke three joints a day?

Which one costs more hundreds of billions of dollars in health care costs?

If anyone is comparing pot to alcohol or tobacco and saying how much worse pot is, on any level whatsoever, then that person is an idiot.

Fish on...

Todd

"than cigarettes made from tobacco alone."

What percentage of cig's smoked are made from tobacco alone and don't include Benzine, Ammonia, Formaldehyde, Acetone, Nicotine, Carbon Monoxide, Rat Poison, Cyanide.

We legally allow companies to add this sh!t to smokes and peddle them to the masses but we ban a chemical free natural plant with no additives?

Hank has only uncovered the beginning of how bad it is!

The "not funny" part of that video, APKD, is that the exact same type of lying SOB's who made it in the first place are still alive and well, and just as fullofshit.

Fish on...

Todd

I don't think anyone said it was harmless...but it causes far less health problems than cigarettes have, and it causes far less social problems than alcohol has...yet we sell, and tax those like mfr's.

The ones who think pot is worse are the same ones who think absitinence only education stops unwanted pregnancies, that the Earth is 6000 years old, and that there is a "war on Christmas".

Fish on...

Todd

Smoking anything isn't good for you.

Neither is playing in the freeway.

So, moving on...................

Indeed.

But we don't really need a law that prohibits you from doing so should you choose to, though, do we?

OK beeches, I'm home.....been working.....making my retirement a little sweeter. First off, I want to thank all of those who are doing likewise.

I don't think there is a chance in Hell that I am going to agree that legalizing mary jane is not going to cause more problems than we have now. As an addictive drug, it will be misused and there will be collateral damages associated with that. Book it.

I wrote a long bit on this, but I deleted it, because I'm not wasting any more of my breath with fools.

Six months or a year from now you can tell me how "right" you've been. Meanwhile try to keep an open mind.....I'll do the same.

Typo.

More typo. You're welcome.

Fish on...

Todd

i want to hear how much he knows about marijuana...

the only thing i do agree with (i cant believe i just said that), is that there is some wrong thinking here... peoples opinions of MJ are based on the years of illegality, and what the government told you... which is rather odd because back in the days, they used Hemp paper to write stuff on, and, on the back of old 5 dollar bills, you will see a wagon with horses loaded up with hemp...

Chinese used it as medicine over 5000 years ago, and likely far longer than that...

Jakes just pissed he has to stick with that bammer bobby brownbud thats still illegal, and cant enjoy the Purple Berry Kush and Blackberry Kush that gets kicked out in WA daily... legally... well, will be to open market soon enough..

and Jake, no horsesh!t about "Maui Wowi", sh!ts schwag and you know it...

Anything you can get in Seattle, you can get anywhere in the world.

Weed doesn't know any borders.

Too many days of accomplishing nothing as a result of Opium Thai Sticks are the reason I no longer partake. Although I might if it doesn't jeapordize my career.

They legalize pot and Hostess goes out of business.... Well at least Frito-Lay is still making munchies!

I grew up in Bellingham during the era of Kurt Cobain and have had a lot of friends with substance abuse issues. Some of my former best friends are dead or I have no idea what they are up to since I steer clear of them these days.

Anyone who blames drugs for these people's issues is very much wrong. All of them were either schizophrenic before they started using, or came from families that were completely [Bleeeeep!] up. I can only think of one guy who had a good family and health and [Bleeeeep!] it up royally out of at least a dozen.

I never partook in the hard drugs because I was already addicted to fishing which is one of the hardest there is. I thank god for this passion and that it takes precedence over getting loaded. Some people simply don't have passions in life because they are severely depressed from a host of sources, usually crappy family, or are mentally handicapped.

I get tired of people thinking MJ is a gateway drug and what not. Nearly everyone I knew who "screwed their lives up" was already screwed when they were completely sober in elementary school.

And don't get me started about alcoholics. I would way rather work with a stoner than a guy who hammers down 4 drinks before work and on lunch. I have worked with these types and they are assholes, always cranky, always blaming everyone and thing but themselves. Stoners say some stupid $hit but they are usually more peaceable and easier to work with towards a common goal in the work place.

However, I currently work in an environment where everyone is 100% sober during the work day and that is a first in my life and I am very thankful.

Have you ever used your brain for something other than to hold your ears apart with?

Just wondering.

Congratulations?

I've known a couple of people who became Spicoli's but the only real bad incident I've seen was a guy who got ahold of PCP laced pot in the 70's. His roomate came home to a shreaded house. Sink was ripped out and toilet smashed. After a stay in the hospital the guy was never the same. He "found Christ" and that's all he would talk about. All the more reason the govt should be ensuring that people get unadulterated drugs.

This looks like a job for...SPELL CHECKER!

They are pretty much still teaching kids these days that all drugs are equally bad. I definitely feel this can lead good people down the wrong path.



My friends who have been addicted to heroin say that weed is a waste of their time. It it not even comparable. If you are an addict, you use it and move right back to the hard stuff.

as i said, peoples opinions are/were formed due to its illegality and what the government told you to think...

i have never once smoked weed, and then though "sh!t, i wanna shoot some H now"... never once smoked weed and thought "hmmm, a nice fat gram of Meth would really do the trick"... it was more like " damn im starving, better go hit up JiB for some burgers and fries"... then, i forgot, and remembered 2 hours later and just ordered pizza... (<< joke, weed doesnt make you stupid)...

for weed to be of the same class as Meth and H, is ridiculous and absurd... weed smokers or whatever you want to call them, arent the ones stealling the boat motors off the back of your boats (they would get flustered and give up within the first 30 seconds), Meth addicts do, they will also cut the catelytic converters off your car in a Wal Mart parking lot becaus they have platinum in them... weed also doesnt kill you, remember, my girlfriends brother is dead now, because of H... Coke is another one thats not even comparable, it can be made into crack, and i dont know 1 person that has ever sucked someones dong for a bowl of weed (unless they are some skanky bug infested ho bag that would do it regardless)...

part of the reason that weed was illegal for so long, is that the government truely cannot capitolize on it and completely own it... you cant own a natural growing plant... you cant patent a naturally growing plant... the BigPharm dont want any competition, they also dont want anything called "medicine" around if their hands are all up the colon in it... BigPharm/Government, basically the same entity...

THC, CBN, and CBD are the 3 major components of weed, THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol ) is what gets you high, its psychoactive, CBN (Cannabinol) is also phsycoactive, but not nearly as relevant as THC, but does work with it to get you "high"... CBD (Cannabidiol) is a bit different, IT is the one that kills cancer cells and reduces inflamation and such... it is also nearly half of the plant percentage wise...

if you want to get technical, pretty much everything you ingest gets you "high"... Food, Water, Beer, Wine, Candy, Dogsh!t, you name it, there are receptors in your brain that fire when something goes down your tube, or your lungs, or in your vein, or even up your butt...

you can feel "full", "violated", "happy", "drunk", ect... although, alchohol, and other drugs do affect your thinking, but that is because the "drug" goes after certian receptors and makes them fire in a way they arent normally doing it...releasing certian chemicals in YOUR body that have always been there and continue to be produced...

its the government not being able to take full controll of it, so they dont want anything to do with it....

same with DMT, it occurs in basically EVERYTHING on earth, yet its illegal... litterally, your body is producing DMT right now, the grass in your yard is producing it, the trees, the spider you just squished on the floor... government cant controll it, so its illegal...

Holy $hit rh had a good point for once, and he put it in fishing terms.

Here's a new documentary worth watching....Times are changin', finally
http://www.youtube.com/user/breakingthetaboofilm

Wow! That was a very enlightening video. It should be required viewing for all politicians.

I just thought of something funny . . . . Your mama

If more people smoked weed, perhaps the crime rate would fall.

When pot is illegal only criminals will smoke pot.

Man, the words of wisdom just don't stop around here!

Pot doesn't get people stoned, people get people stoned.

What we need is more pot, and less people.

If everyone was stoned, then no one would be not stoned.

Think about it.

This message brought to you by the National Stonerman's Association.

Fish on...

Todd

Anyone else watch the video?... I finished the last 20 minutes of it last night. Freekin amazingly good journalism.
Our society is so fukkin ass backwards on this issue it's embarrassing.

Pot is for people who can't handle reality, or is reality for people who can't handle pot?

SkyGuy,

The video is an hour long. I started it a couple nights ago, but find it hard to watch anything on my computer for a full hour, including work!

Illahee,

Haven't you heard? "Reality is over-rated." Salmo g. 1974

I think Jack in the Box saw this coming and raised their prices. Capitalist pigs..

Reefer:

Did you note the time of your post?

lol

Med box

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/...mpany-says?lite