WTF is this common core bullSh.%

today we failed 4th grade math even though we got all the right answers...

my 4th grade son brought home a math worksheet that was all about multiplying a whole number by a fraction. There were 4 steps involved that included breaking the fraction apart into its own math problem and adding some parentheses, then multiplying the resulting numbers and dividing by the denominator. By the time he was done he had a full line of numbers, a ribbon diagram and 6 out of 6 wrong answers....

I couldn't figure out how he was supposed to do it so I showed him how I would do it. Multiply the numerators and the denominators and there is your answer. He said, "wow that was really easy and makes way more sense". I told him to write a note to his teacher that explained why he did it the way he did. Needless to say I'm pretty sure he will flunk this one.

WTF? no wonder kids are are so stupid these days...




and you'll notice that they don't grade on spelling or penmanship anymore

Why do you think China and other Asian countries are kicking our f'n arses in academics.

you're not kidding...

My 6th grader doesn't even have a science or social studies text book, all his research is done on the internet. he gets frustrated because he opens these sites and cant understand a word of it because it is high school and college level and above... God Damn, we finally found a 6th grade teachers website that had links to 6th grade level stuff the he could finally understand after 4 hours of searching.

My cousin was a public school teacher until she had kids. Those kids go to privite school. No way she was sending them to public school after what she saw while teaching. And she worked for the Mercer Island school district.

I hear ya, Piper. I've had similar experiences with my own children. The best I can figure is that the "new math" is a response to the generalization that more students are visual learners and so require as many operations as possible to be illustrated, as opposed to mentally calculated. I almost always have to read through their lessons to be of any help, and sometimes even that doesn't work so well.

To answer your question, the Common Core is a grand scheme, devised by some of the wealthiest Americans (most notably those who made their fortunes from high tech), to devalue the booming market in high tech careers, cleverly disguised as a means of adapting our education curriculum to the needs of the modern era. How did I reach that conclusion? Read on if you care, and consider yourself warned if not.

On the surface, I agree that our education system needs to adapt to the changing world. What I question, however, is whether it's wise to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak, which is what the Common Core does by placing strict emphasis on math and science, while phasing out things like arts and humanities.

The big themes of today are technology, natural resources, and climate change. Careers that work in those fields tend to require a strong background in math and science (or, at least, that's what the thinking behind the Common Core has decided). At present, there is a shortage of qualified professionals, particularly in high tech. As a result, those who have the skills command relatively high salaries. I should point out that this is a fantastic example of free market Capitalism working according to theory.

Of course, something we all know about corporations is that they exist solely to maximize profits, and paying high salaries does not advance that agenda as effectively as paying lower salaries. The way to get to lower salaries is to devalue the skillset, which is best accomplished by creating a surplus of qualified resources. That, in my opinion, is what the Common Core aims to achieve. If high school students can be taught a lot of the essential skills for tech jobs, they will be qualified for entry level positions immediately upon graduating, where at present, most such positions require a Bachelor of Science degree, or at least some investment in vocational training. High school graduates command less pay than college graduates, so if a college degree is no longer required, companies will be able to pay lower wages for what are well-paid jobs today. In theory, a standard like Common Core should produce more career ready tech workers among high school graduates, so it stands to reason that is what technology corporations (who have earned a lot of "free speech") would seek to enact.

Of course, there is significant societal value in educating children so they will be best prepared for the world in which they will be working, and that's not lost on me. However, I question that the Common Core is the best way to achieve that goal, for the following reasons:

1. It assumes that all people think the same way and can be taught to do anything, which is inherently false. Indeed, the sort of minds naturally inclined toward careers in engineering or software development, for example, are among the least common.
2. Even if every student did have the mental makeup to be a technologist or scientist, training them all as such would deny them any opportunity to realize their own, unique talents, which in turn would prevent a lot of great ideas and new possibilities from being explored. Not good for a country whose strength has always been innovation and is becoming increasingly reliant on the same.
3. Filling high tech and engineering jobs with people who aren't naturally inclined to those careers will produce a lot of sub-standard or uninspired work, which translates to higher costs from rework and negates the perceived value of the change.
4. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to live in a world that doesn't encourage talented people to do what they're good at. A sometimes not so sweet life is a lot better with good music, fine food, fine art, or an occasional, philosophical concersation to help wash it down once in a while.

Instead of taking the Common Core approach, I would favor something more like the European model, where kids are evaluated around middle school age to find their strengths. From that point further, their studies become more and more like on the job training, so by the time they graduate, they're ready for some sort of career that should lend itself well to their strengths.

If tech companies need more qualified young people, perhaps they should invest in programs that select qualified high school students to take classes on subjects like engineering and development in lieu of some standard high school curriculum and participate in mentorships, etc. To recoup their investment, they could place graduates from the program into jobs, on a probationary basis and at a slightly lower pay grade, with the reward for good performance being a full-time, full-salaried position at the end of the probationary period. This way, companies could also have a hand in designing the course curricula, to ensure that students learn skills on which they place the highest value. From my perspective, that allows tech companies (or really any company) to teach the right people the right skills at the right time, which seems to be a constant struggle today, particularly in the field of technology. It also doesn't prevent other personality types from realizing their full potential to serve society in a meaningful way.

I like it.

Public school seems like a joke to me that the taxpayers are hesitant to fund in these times.

Nice work Flea.

I adore Common Core!

As a middle age, Gen X professional, its going to continue to place great value on my traditional Engineering education until the day I retire. When these future "professionals" coming behind me can't even do basic arithmetic without a special, overly convoluted thought process, I win. Ain't nobody got time for that.

I'm probably never going to have kids, so fvck the future of America. Get paid.

PS: For those parents like Piper and WDFW, my comments should scare the living daylights out of you. If you want your kids to have any sort of STEM career and a future in this country, get them into a private school ASAP. The public education kids I have to deal with today are a complete lost generation when it comes to problem solving and its only going to get much, much worse. They don't have a clue and neither does Bill Gates.

My kids will have work ethics and common sense.
That will always be in demand and pay well.

They most likely will be self employed and make a living taking money from the book smarts.

I will support them in their efforts so don't forget to pay your taxes Nick.

Yes it will and that's good to hear. Common sense aint so common any more, so those that actually have it are at a distinct advantage. Adding in solid work ethic and you have a deadly combo right there.

Consider the trades for a great head start on a solid career. Too many kids get suckered into huge student loans for a degree that's worth squat in today's world. Somebody has to serve me my Starbucks, might as well be a Womans gender studies grad paying off their $150K Brown SL.

I always pay my taxes. I'm just partially joshing about the future of America. I still care, but also know we are mostly fvcked.

Hank - I did my 8 years at MSFT and I agree with your general farmed out Visa sentiment. However, in my particular case it's not likely. My degree is extremely rare (chosen on purpose for that reason alone - the one early life choice I made that actually worked out). It's ranked #1 in the world (the "Harvard Law" for this particular degree) AND I'm right smack dab in that middle age between lots of retiring Boomers and a bunch kids who can't tie their own shoes. Kush times ahead.

Plus I'm in Leadership now, so I've moved on from day to day grunt work. For fun and to keep mentally fresh, I still do some of my own work on occasion. Now I command my legions into the battle of over-thought destruction. But I digress...

My point being - Common Core exists exactly for the purposes outlined by Flea. It's meant to dumb down Americans so the rest of the Global community can rise up. Its plain as day to see. Throw in immigration; advancements in 3D, A.I. and robotic interface and the common working American is screwed within the next 20 years. I plan to get out before that happens, but I can't guarantee the future. Kids today need to think really hard about affordable skill sets that are not readily farmed out to Juan or Mr. Roboto, because that day is coming with a quickness.

This is a real Common Core math problem. 4th Grade level.

Please solve and show your work kiddies!

"Juanita wants to give bags of stickers to her friends. She wants the give the same number of stickers to each friend. She's not sure if she needs 4 bags of stickers or 6 bags of stickers. How many stickers could she buy so there are no stickers left?"

AYFKM? WOW! I mean I know the answer, but this chit for a 4th grader? No wonder these kids are crying over their homework. I'm crying and I'm not even a parent. Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus!

Hank is correct about whom will be the competition for the first generation to graduate from a Common Core program: Asians, here on visa (or overseas, thanks to the wonders of the Internet and globalization), who already have 5-10 years of relevant experience. Not only will our kids be less educated and experienced, but they will also refuse to work for less than what they think they deserve. Add it all up, and you've got a generation of American 20-somethings, living with Mom and Dad, and with not much hope for the future.

I think WDFW and Nick got it right - you don't need a college education to make a good living doing all the work white collar folks don't want to do. As long as we still need to build stuff and maintain our homes, there will be plenty of work in the Trades. I suspect, given that fewer and fewer people are being trained for the trades, the money is only going to get better for those willing to get their hands dirty. Ours may be the first generation of fathers who all want their daughters to grow up and marry a plumber (NOT trashing plumbers - I think most earn more than I do; just making a point).

Mike Rowe is not wrong.

My step father's profession is as "Dean of Technical Trade Programs" or some similar title for local and regional community colleges. He acquires government, state and regional grant funding to set-up next gen trades education facilities, programs and courses. Hire teachers, buy new welding equipment. That sort of thing. He's currently setting up the next generation program at the College of the Siskiyous in Weed, CA.

Per me Pops, now that the market crash of 08' has subsided a bit, there is more money to spend now than can possibly be spent (pent up demand). He can't turn down enough grants at the moment. The Trades are going to be where its at in the next 5 - 10 years.

If any parents out there would like to possibly learn more about where the Trades are headed, shoot me a PM and I could possibly get you hooked up info and contacts.

Gotta go mow the lawn. I'll be back to bitch some more later.

Interesting observations and opinions. I'm not sure what to think. My daughters graduated from public school (Oly High) in 94 and 97 taking as many honors and advanced placement classes as offered, and both attended private universities of repute, and one got her masters from a public (Berkley). They've been gainfully employed ever since, except when they choose not to be to take extended international trips.

I do think nearly all students should have basic math, science, English, art, literature, etc. because the number of stupid fvcks I run into is frightening.

Sg,

Agreed that all kids should get a general education. After all, that SHOULD be the way to figure out where their strengths lie. I just think we should make high school more like a vocational school. That's kind of what Common Core is trying to do, but I think it falls well short of ideal, due to the lack of variety and focus on subjects that are the most difficult for most students to grasp.

I'm duly impressed with the way things have turned out for your daughters. You should be proud. You should also be glad they graduated in the 90s; college tuition has more than doubled since then, outpacing general inflation four-fold. It's facts like this that have some of us Gen-Xers wondering if our kids really will have an opportunity to become self-sufficient. The boys out there can fall back on the trades, but there's not much left for our daughters if they don't go to college. I think it's safe to say that my daughters and I will all be in debt up to our necks for a long time (If they go to college).

Flea - actually your girls stand a great chance of being accepted to university or even awarded scholarships if they are interested in STEM studies and have decent to good grades and scores (north of 3.0 GPA, 23 ACT). Even if they don't, they can go the CC route for early credits and transfer to Uni at a later time. Gender and race ratios play a huge role in acceptance these days. There is also always Nursing, which is the female equivalent to a standard Male trade and its exploding in need.

Honestly, its our boys that are falling behind. Sad...

My older brother went to public school in - gasp - Shelton.

Then went on to get a full ride at UW, a full ride at MIT, got a Ph.D in Physics, and worked with a team at UW that won the Nobel Prize and a team at the Max Planck Institute of Technology that won the Nobel Prize.

The problem is, not everyone has a noggin like he did, and they'll need the help of good teachers or good parents, and both seem a little scarce these days.

My kids' teachers hated me because I was always giving them crap about the idiotic math homework my kids brought home. I did what Piper did - showed them how humans should do math and told their teachers to pound sand. When their teachers whined, I told them their sandiness was duly noted, and that I wasn't all that interested in their opinions.

I'm sure they thought I was a dick - many people do - but making teachers happy isn't my duty as a parent. Making sure my kids aren't worthless is.

Dan [ drops the mic ]

This is timely as I consulted (likely offended) the school psychologist today regarding this common core bulls.hit. She said she can't do it (the math) either but the kids need to know how to do it.

I think we'll be opting out of the state testing next week.

I'll be using the law to my advantage over the next couple of years and the school will be seeing a lot more of me.

Good for you & family RvW. This crap is not acceptable. Give em' hell.

People that can't do basic math without using a calculator are taking over the world.

Today's problems revolve largely around work ethic and in my opinion it's easy to see why.
30 years ago there was a lot of opportunity to learn how to work. Families had a yard, garden, animals that kids participated in maintaining. They had the opportunity to mow the old lady's yard next door. They walked or rode their bikes frequently. Many worked after school.
Fast forward 30 years. Kids are more and more being raised in an apartment setting. The opportunity to work is simply not as available and there are many more kids. Hell now days you are taking a risk hiring a kid under 18. People don't feel as safe letting their kids walk or ride their bikes anywhere. After school it's homework time or sit on the couch time and text away. The kids are connected with the other ones sitting on their asses and no effort is required. So are the adults. Many of which have become over weight because they to have bought into today's ways.
AND the kids that do want to work in their urban settings don't have job's or leaders to mentor them. Their choices are severely limited by their urban setting. Unless you consider the Starbucks manager a mentor.
Things have defiantly changed and until parents themselves realize it and get off their own asses their kids will be a product of them.
America has forgotten how to make their own coffee much less how to work.
The same fat lazy's who are screwing up their kids are the ones who complain about the illegals taking their jobs. Bottom line is the fat and lazy's wont do the hard work the Mexicans will do. They are the same ones that cut off the guy in the new red Corvette because after all how dare he have worked his ass off all his life and be able to afford that. They don't respect the effort=reward concept. They are the same ones that feel life has dealt them a tough hand because they haven't got off their asses and earned it.
They feel entitled to something for nothing and so do their fat offspring.
Today's Americans better wake up quick.

Private school is a big blow job for people that think little billy and Cindy are special. It is a homogenous environment that does not expose them to the worlds diverse social strata. This is a social world first and unless you learn to navigate in that world you will not be successful by any measure. Public schools are the only place that mirror the real world socially. So put your kids in a public school and augment their education in other ways . Recent data suggests (surprise) that parent involvement in education is the most important factor in a child's academic success. There is more to life that your grade point and which school you attend and success is defined by your goals in life not your possessions and bank account.

All I know is I need to have a pool installed in the back yard for when my son is in high school.
Just sayin.

It's convenient in this case that the first five characters of your handle express my response to your assertion. (That was just for fun, BTW). Actual response below.

The entity you described (the one that makes stuff we all need) is a BUSINESS, which may or may not be (although I suppose most manufacturers are) a corporation. The incentive to incorporate is to enjoy the benefits of a corporate tax structure, which translates fairly directly to higher profits. It's not the desire to maximize profits that disturbs me (although there is often quite a bit of evil involved in that process). Rather, it's the extreme social costs at which that goal is realized. If you view short-term profit and shutting out competition as the measures of good business, the corporate model is right up your alley. If you value the principles on which this country was founded, you will realize that corporations are becoming to our current society what British royalty was to the colonists.

Poor Asian kids in identical schools with Black , white and Hispanic kids out perform all of them . They typically outperform even the private school kids on ACT and Sats . There is a familial expectation of acedemic success in the home of the Asian kids. They typically attain professional degrees that are somewhat isolated from the social requirements of society. Money is often cited as the number one reason schools fail. However we are exponentially increased the amount of money we through at schools in the past 50 years and scores have stayed flat of gone down. We need to move to a two tiered system. Tier one is pre college , you competitively earn the right to attend. Everyone else goes into a basic program geared years the trades. Who gives a shait of Shaq or Dewayne can do algebra, if the m'fr can weld he will always have work available. I retired this year so I have been able to see how this can work. I have had a 19 year old homeless kid living with me since the first of the year. He dropped out of school in the 9th grade. Horrible home life but never did drugs or alcohol. We coached him up on the basics every night after he worked an 8 hour day. He passed his GED exams last week with scores in the top 10% . He had tears in his eyes when he got the news. He had never experienced success in his life because third was no one to set the expectation for him. He had no idea that he was worth something to the world. He leaves for basic training in the U.S. Army in two weeks. He did this all on his own all we did was give him direction. Thousands like him clogging up the system.

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
Hey teacher leave Piper's kids alone

Some of the math homework lessons my kids brought home were a little confusing. My son is pretty good at math and it helped when he went through his construction program at West Sound Tech and Bates. Could still pursue a construction management degree after he gets his AA. I used to help out at his grade school for the science fair.

I had to help out my wife with her math homework and explain it to her at her level. It's frustrating as an engineer to explain math to those lacking basic math skills.

Holy crap there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I don't think a lot of people are really understanding what Common Core actually is. Common Core is essentially a universal set of educational standards that are set almost nationwide. Only a few states have yet to adopt these standards. Basically, these standards are developed through what is developmentally appropriate for children at a given age. For example addition and subtraction in first grade, multiplication in third grade, ect. Common Core aims to create consistency of the standards nationwide. For example, If Johnny moves from Washington State to California, he will continue learning the same material that was taught to him in Washington State. If he attends a school in a state that has not adopted the Common Core Standards, he could be learning God knows what.

What a lot of people's beef really should be with are with some of the teaching strategies that exist within Common Core (especially within math). A lot of traditional ways of doing math that a lot of us were taught aren't always taught as a strategy to get an answer. Supposedly, a lot of the new strategies taught will make learning upper level math more easy once kids get the hang of it. This is the part that I actually question because it is hard to prove, and my traditional ways of learning seem to be quicker and easier.

The main reason why academic achievement in America sucks is because we are the only country in the world that offers free education to EVERYONE regardless of race, nationality, language, culture, disability, mental health, cognitive abilities, familial circumstances, socio-economic status, ect. These are all barriers that limit access to education in other countries. Here in American, it doesn't matter, by law EVERYONE is provided with education, regardless of any barrier that exists. Everyone must be accommodated.

It also doesn't help when our [Bleeeeep!] parents are not as involved in our education as they used to be. Parental involvement in a child's education is the biggest indicator of academic success across the board. Make sure your kids have a book in their hands when you tuck them into bed tonight. You can play angry birds or another tablet game with them tomorrow after school. Just don't miss baseball practice.



Matt

Source: Myself (Child Mental Health Counselor) and wife (Special Education Instructor)

More funding is all that's needed.

Parents that want to write off their children for tax puposes should have to include a school attendance form to the I.R.S for each child listed. I bet the parents would be more involved in what their Kids are doing or not doing. Money works wonders.

Streamer, what you say is very true and I suppose, like you said it's the ridiculous way they "teach" this new math. I have heard many teachers complain that while they understand the math they are teaching they don't understand how to teach it.

I spoke with my sons' school today and am satisfied with their perspective and therefore told my son today that he will be taking the test.

I am now focused on some of the options available as far as math classes go.

and everyone is educated to the lowest common denominator...

That's a whole lot of crap, Streamer, and Chuck is right.

I don't give a sh!t what it is - it isn't working. Perhaps we should come to grips with the fact that not every kid is going to be a physicist and stop making future physicists wait for future burger flippers in math class so we can spout some bullsh!t about everyone getting an opportunity. The opportunity they're getting is to receive a second-rate education so we can feel warm and fuzzy.

The results speak for themselves. Our kids do not measure up to the rest of the world, and using the excuse that we educate every kid as a reason is a cop-out full of cowardice and stupidity.

Somehow, I don't think a counselor and special education teacher are valid sources, either. If you do, perhaps it's because you place a higher value on warm and fuzzy than you do on real , measurable statistics...............and that is the problem right there.

I took college-level calculus and had to struggle with my kids' 4th and 5th grade math homework - explain that with your story about how we educate everyone and that's why our schools are failing. That ISN'T the reason. The reason is we've become too gutless to identify that the world is full of ditch-diggers AND scientists - and both can bring value to society - and we should stop treating them the same by using some garbage system called Common Core.

My kids are college-aged now, so I'm done doing battle with the local school district. It still angers me, though, that my tax dollars flow into a system administered by clowns that ask for more money to perform at such a low level. I posted the text below on another BB I post on - it's a perfect example of why our schools are junk and why our kids are the ones who suffer from it.

"When I was a Senior in high school, my school offed to pay me 5 bones a day to tutor a group of 6 freshman paste-eaters who were failing, instead of taking one of my early-outs.

I agreed because 25 bones a week paid for beer.

At the end of the first quarter, the little donkeys were ALL getting better than C's in their classes - an increase of 2 full grade points. It's because they weren't stupid, their teachers were just fuckheads that failed to get through to them.

One Friday afternoon, I let the them bail out 5 minutes early to get on their way. Some administrator jackass saw them going across campus, and the following Monday I was called to the office. They said that because I had let these kids out early, they'd have to terminate my employment. I laughed right at the counselor's face and asked if they thought it was any skin off my ass if these kids went back to failing all their classes in spite of the 25K a year the school district was spending to educate them - and failing - when I was doing a better job for 25 bucks a week.

I went back to taking 2 early-out and buying my own beer and those kids likely went back to failing.

Since then, I still vote for school levies, but know that schools are doomed to fail because the administrators that operate them are complete fucktards, and no matter how good the teachers are - and most of them aren't - the kids are not going to get a good education no matter how many dollars rain down on them.

Of course, the senior leadership at my company are all fucktards, too, but at least we don;t ask the public for more money every year to continue being shitheads. Every so often, the stockholders demand that the fucktards' heads roll, and we get a new group of fuckin' idiots who find new ways to kill sales and not get the job done..............but it's never public money we piss away.

And THAT is the difference. You want to piss money away? Then piss away your own fuckin' money. Why I still vote for levies is beyond me. Too much alcohol abuse, I imagine."



Frankly, I've had my fill of discussing this. Like I said, my kids are pretty much on their own now, and I'm not fighting this battle any longer

While talking to a HS counsellor about problems my son was having with meeting college requirements because of how they scheduled classes (not enough English) the comment I got back was "most of our students don't go to college". Self-esteem is higher valued than accomplishment. In other classes, no homework was assigned-just stuff that was done in class-because they knew some of the kids wouldn't do work outside of school and we can't let the little dears fail.

One of our youngsters at work is doing a 2 year class to get some job at boeing and asked me about a math problem he was having trouble solving even though he was given the answer. He gave me the problem and I ran it through the math I was taught in school 50 years ago, no paper and pencil or calculator, spit out the answer 10 seconds later. Thank God my son got out of school before all this [Bleeeeep!] they call education today became the standard. He took a software testing class at the U W extension in Bothell, did a couple of temp jobs, his boss at Microsoft liked him and got him set up for interviews. He now has 35 employees he is responsible for. I doubt with the least common denominator education system we have today that would have happened.

so here's a little update...

Levi came home last night and told me, "hey dad, today they taught us how to do it the way you taught me!"


basically the school wasted the time of 3/4 the kids in the room for more than two days trying to teach the "common core" to the other 1/4 of the class...

Volunteer at the school , do home work with your kids every night , be the change you bitch about.

Also it helps if only one parent works while the kids are in school.

Chuck,

I don't think you're understanding what Common Core is. It is standards that are developed through an evidenced based testing system that is also internationally benchmarked, meaning it is on par with what is being taught in other countries.

The problem isn't with the material itself, it is with the lack of rigorous intensity and additional strategies used to teach the material. Common Core is not strategies, and the problem is not with Common Core.


Dan,

Physically you may not reach the top floor, but cognitively I know you do. You clearly have no understanding of how the educational system works, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and try to explain since I know you aren't as stupid as EVO or dwatkins.

If there is one thing people should take away from this it's that Common Core does not dictate how teachers teach material to students. Teaching strategies for understanding the material is left up to the discretion of individual teachers. This is where the problem lies; often students learn a variety of strategies for getting answers (particularly with math) instead of focusing on a single traditional way, and learning it through vigorous repetition until it becomes second nature. Valuable time is lost in vigorous repetition because teachers are focusing too much time trying to accommodate all student learning styles by teaching a variety of strategies. This is the problem, and it has almost nothing to do with Common Core.

Piper gave the most fitting example of this.



So anyway, Dan, the reason we don't measure up to the rest of the world is for a variety of reasons. We pay our teachers [Bleeeeep!] salaries, so nobody of academic excellence or intelligence wants those jobs. The people who should be teaching our kids are working in other sectors that pay much better $$$ for their smarts. Also, like I had mentioned earlier, we are the only country in the world that is legally required by law to educate everyone regardless of any of the factors mentioned in my previous post. This is a costly endeavor, is also one reason why teacher pay sucks, and why much time is diverted away from focusing on teaching in one specific way. Administration and districts poorly spending tax dollars plays a big role in it as well and is an entirely different issue unrelated to Common Core but I digress.

As far as myself and my wife both not being credible sources is also a testament to your lack of understanding. I work closely with school systems in the development of Individualized Education Plans, and require extensive use of statistical analysis in my day to day work to establish measurable goals and progress monitor. My Master of Science degree speaks to this. In working with children in an outpatient counseling setting, I work with children in home and focus on counseling and behavior analysis. What I observe are many kids with [Bleeeeep!] home lives that do not have all of their basic needs met, and then are expected to be on par in learning with children who have parents that feed them, put a roof over their heads, love them, and help them with their homework if needed. You would be surprised how many parents don't do any of these things.

My wife has a better understanding of Common Core because it gives her the framework of what her students must learn to do. It is the material, and not the strategies, which you would know if you actually spent 5 minutes researching it.

And if you want something warm and fuzzy go ahead and pound your fist into sand and stick it you know where. I know you are a lot more intelligent than you are sounding.



Matt

I do, I am!

I think that's the point of this thread, to discuss our collective experiences.

That's great. Everyone should know their kids teachers, what their background is along with their strengths and weaknesses.

Streamer, Thanks for helping to unravel this a bit. One complaint I've heard from parents, students and teachers ( a lot of teachers) is how FAST they have to teach the material and then move on. There seems to be a speed-vs-need approach. Many students haven't grasped the current concept yet the teacher moves on to the next. Which is a major bi.tch when it comes to math.

Dan, Good story and I can absolutely picture it.

lol

You apparently aren't any smarter than you're sounding.

I taught failing kids for 1 hour a day for 25 bucks a week, and then they weren't failing any longer.

But do tell your story again so we can feel warm and fuzzy about our expensive, failing school system.

You can pound sand yourself, Streamer. I researched Common Core thoroughly when it was failing my kids and then stepped in myself to make sure they weren't the victims of it and attitudes like yours. I don't give a sh!t what you think about it, the results speak for themselves.

Dan,

You're talking in absolute based upon your subjective experience, which is anecdotal at best. There is a mound of evidence that supports Common Core standards. Why you insist on objecting to that is beyond me and makes you look silly. I explained to you what it is and what it is not. It clearly isn't even worthy of discussion based on your responses you posted to my explanations. You're also insinuating my support of the expensive school systems we have now, which couldn't be further from the truth. Did you even read everything I wrote?

Hell... tutoring for only a few hours each week to pay for my beer expenses sounds like a pretty good deal to me... if only schools could afford doing that anymore. The one thing I will agree with you on is that education was better back prior to my generation (again plenty of evidence to support this as well) but the way of life back then was also better, and there weren't as many [Bleeeeep!] ups, complications, or special interests interfering with children's education. It also had little or nothing to do with Common Core standards, and plenty to do with much of what I had mentioned earlier.

If you want further explanations, feel free to jump in my boat this fall and we'll float the river I ran into you on a few years back. I have plenty of beer to go around.


Matt

My school paid me 25 dollars to leave early.

One question, is there supposed to be a difference there?

Matt,

I apologize if I came across as a dick - like I do sometimes.

I understand what Common Core is - it's common. I'm not interested in commonalities, and schools shouldn't be, either. IMO, they should identify high achievers early on, and segregate them to learn at the pace they are equipped to learn at.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a base of knowledge required for anyone to meet graduation requirements, what I'm saying is simply that future Nobel Laureates should not be doing the same things in school as future welders, salesmen, and truck drivers.

This is the Common Core view of math, and it sounds just like the corporate crap-lingo I hear at work every day, floated by senior management dillholes who think neato terms like "leverage our synergies" are more important than heads-down-getting-work-done work. They probably had 17 meetings, too, to decide "leverage our synergies" is what they should say.

Mathematics
The mathematics standards mandate the teaching of eight specific principles:[4]

Make sense of problems and persevere in solving them
Reason abstractly and quantitatively
Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others
Model with mathematics
Use appropriate tools strategically
Attend to precision
Look for and make use of structure
Look for and express regularity in repeated reasoning

This is not the way to have the US regain its strength in education, IMO. Cutting through crap like this and facing the reality that we've been too busy playing grabass to provide kids with quality education. Teachers don't call parents to the carpet for not making sure homework gets done, poor teachers aren't shown the door and their salaries used to increase the pay of good teachers - the education system is just a huge, dysfunctional mess and Common Core isn't going to change it.

I hate to be such a pessimist, but it comes from many years IN school and many years of having kids in school.

If we jump in a boat and go fishing, I'd rather NOT talk schools and Common Core because it bums me out. You'll find I'm not nearly such a dick when I just fish, and leave subjects like this out of it.

I wish you and your wife luck in your endeavors, I just wish the folks the run the operation made it easier on both of you. You have my respect and admiration for what you guys do - I hope your jobs don't turn you into a cynical pessimist - like me.

only an idiot calls someone else stupid when they have no clue about said person...


my friends have all been bitching about this too (the ones with kids).. alot of them did the exact same thing as Piper, taught them the real way to do math...


CC will only divide students/teachers more, and create more of a hassle for teachers that get paid nothing, while doing more work for nothing....

Only a fool quits learning.

very true, people think people are stupid for asking questions, that they dont know anything because they are doing so....

a person who has stopped asking questions has failed, you can never learn everything, ever....

You can learn without asking questions.

but you can't get a job unless you ask for one...

"Would you like fries with that?"

"Can I interest you in a magazine subscription today?"

Graduated school over 40 years ago, and my youngest graduated HS before any of this mandated "Common Core" BS was instituted in the local schools. Can't even imagine how challenging it is for both elementary and HS aged students in today's world.

The kids today do their learning in an environment with far more social, and technical pressure than most of us ever had to deal with.

I was taught the traditional method of doing basic math, and did OK with it, but after awhile (like 5th grade) I learned a better method (for me) on my own. Surprisingly, it's a modified version of what they now call Common Core.

But, just because it woks for me doesn't mean other kids are going to grasp the same concepts as easily. Hell, took me several years before I could do the addition, subtraction and division in my head much easier than I could do that long, drawn out method on paper.

In the image Chuck posted on the 2nd, I would have calculated it (in my head) as: Problem is 243-87. OK, 243-100 = 143. Add back in 13 to balance it out and you get 156.

Works for me..BUT, I still think they should teach the traditional way, as not all kids think in the same processes, and the traditional way is bulletproof. Teach a method that works for all, and then if the kid is capable of developing an advanced method of processing the same info, then great for them.

Teaching the old way means "no child gets left behind" because they are unable to grasp the concept.

Same way I do it Digger.

Me too but I would have added 20% for overhead and profit.

The old bitch is a prime example of why our schools are failing today.
She should be knee humped by a pack of pit bulls.


Police: Teacher lowered autistic boy head-first into trash
By Associated Press Published: May 7, 2015 at 9:57 AM PDT

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Police: Teacher lowered autistic boy head-first into trash
This undated photo released by the Cobb County (Ga.) Sheriff's Department shows Mary Katherine Pursley in Cobb County, Ga.
MARIETTA, Ga. (AP) — A Georgia special education teacher is accused of cruelty to children after police say she held an autistic boy upside-down by his legs and lowered him head-first into a trash can.

An arrest warrant says Mary Katherine Pursley told the second-grader that if he had "trashy behavior" like the Sesame Street character Oscar the Grouch, he would go "to the trash can."

Cobb County School District police state in the warrant that another employee witnessed Pursley place the boy into the trash can at Mount Bethel Elementary School outside Atlanta on April 30.

Cobb County Schools spokeswoman Jennifer Gates says Pursley is on administrative leave with pay.

Cobb County Jail records show she faces a felony charge of first-degree cruelty to children. Jail records list no attorney for her.

I'm starting to understand common core now... don't teach kids in high school so that when they get to college they have to pay for the education that they should have gotten in high school...


75% of high school grads not ready for college

A huge new study that followed 100,000 Oregon high school graduates to community college finds that 75 percent have to take non-credit remedial classes when they get there.

Poor academic readiness, not students' race or income, explained why they had to take high school- or middle school-level classes when they got to community college, according to the study, done for the national Institute of Education Sciences by Portland-based researcher Michelle Hodera.

The most common deficits were in math, she found. Nearly two-thirds of all high school graduates who went straight to community college had to take remedial math, with most of them testing into an introductory algebra class.

Those students have to pay for and pass three terms worth of math before they can start college-level work. So it's not surprising that the study found that fewer than one-quarter of them ever get to and pass a single college math class.

Easy fix Piper---- lower the college standards.

back when I was in college-which was a looooooong time ago, the UC system had an English requirement. If you passed the test out of High School you met the requirement. If not, you had to take Subject A for $50 for the quarter and no credit. The majority of students took Sub A. So many, in fact, that they finally relented and allowed it for credit.

There was also a History test to take. Non-passers had to take a class in history or gubmint. Something like 1% or less passed.

For a BSc you needed a certain amount of credits in a foreign language. There, again, was a test. If you passed to whatever level you took in HS you could take the next class for full credit. Do poorly and you could take a lower class for half credit. Do even worse and you had to start over.

It is not necessarily a "new" problem that HS grads are unprepared for college. Perhaps schools are just perfecting it.

Collage has become a place to send your kids when the kid doesn't know what the hell he/she will do next and the parents want them out.

It is a day care for adult bodies with adolescent brains.

It often times is the only answer for many when the parents thought it was cute little Franky wanted to be a fire fighter when he grows up and then they missed the part where he grew up.

If parents took the collage tuition.
Invested it wisely.
Their kids could retire at 50 without working.

that must be what redhooks mom is doing... only 14 more years and he'll be able to retire!

How many college graduates spell college collage?

Hopefully none of them. lol

I see teachers competing with t.v. ,smartphones and video games. You gotta hold the students attention for more than 10 seconds to teach them anything. Good luck. What were we talking about? Checking facebook.

Admitting you're wrong is a first.

rrrrrrrrrright.

I got through 4 years at UW for not much more than a year costs now.

The rate at which tuition has risen is a disgrace.

A lot of the first 2 years classes aren't even taught by professors.

Yep and most of that money we pay doesn't even go to proffs or more proffs.

The highest paid folks on campus are admin. It's a fuckin farce.

Now your talking.
We need a revolution.
Fucck dem hippies!!!!