Is It Time For a Protest?

I hereby promise to attend a protest at the Pike Place Market, on or very soon after the wild steelhead retention goes into place. If we can get 50 people with signs to protest, with signs, in front of a vendor selling Indian caught steelhead we can very likely get a TV crew or to cover it. Our protest can be simple. Don't buy wild steelhead. If they are so scarce that sportsman can't keep any they are too scarce to net.

I know it will get some ink in Salmon Trout Steelheader and we can call F&H news and every other media source we can think of.

What do you think? If we get a good response to this we can start a sign-up sheet. I think we need at least 50 people committed to make it work.

I bet Aunty M can come up with some catchy slogans.

Dave......I like it! Line up the protest for a Saturday and I'm there!
I saw a version of this slogan on a shirt.....We Love 'em and Leave 'em.....Not kill 'em and cook 'em.

Good idea!

I'll be there Dave.....

If the protest worked and they stopped selling the wild fish there.Dont you think there is a pretty good chance they would just sell those fish to a out of state or overseas buyer?

I think we need to find out where our fish and shellfish are being sold...The eggs that get stripped from fish that are then discarded are sold right here to firms like Cossack Caviar. Where do all the Geoduck go....hundreds of thousands of pounds with ZERO revenue to the state. Where do all the wild steelhead get sold? The millions of crabs? clams? sea urchin eggs? herring? herring roe?

Yes, the protest would be a great idea! Mainly it would bring some pretty high-profile attention to this cause. Remember that only a sliver of the population (US) knows what the issues are here.

Yes, we certainly do need to find out what is happening to commercially harvested steelhead and other fish and shellfish.

Someone provided a link on an earlier thread from some seafood institute(?) that listed types of seafood including salmon and steelhead that are available in westcoast restaurants and markets.

Dave,

Count me in for 2. The wife and I would gladly hold signs.

I hate crowds, but this is worth it.

We best make sure there is not some kind of permit required from the city. We need to be legal about it.

Something else that can set the "mood" in motion is a full-page ad in the Seattle Times. A "shot across the bow", if you will. The Native netters will be then on-notice that Sportfishermen are most concerned about our wild stocks.

Anyone in the group with an advertising background? I am thinking this could be placed after the protest at Pike Place. If it does make the TV news we want to be sure the voting public understands the WHY 50-100 men and women were protesting the Natives netting wild stock.

The non-fishing, but VOTING public need to know the issue, and be provided adequate information about Native fisheries. We can gain a ton of momentum if the average trout fisherman gets involved as well.

Not sure what a full-page ad costs, but I'll toss in $50.00 to get the pot rolling.

Mike B

count me in tell me when and i am there!!!!!!!!

I think this may be a go. But, for several reasons, I cannot be the organizer. I will attend. I will photograph it, and I will report on it in my column, but I cannot be the principle.

If this is a go, I think we need to let other board participants discuss it and we need to let groups like TU and PSA have a chance to opt in or out. It needs to be well planned, orderly, legal and professional, if we want to be heard. In addition I think we need a brief written statement to provide to the news medis. I will help in any way I cam without being the leader.

I would love to hear from anyone who thinks we should NOT do this.

If we can get a date set on this, I'd suggest posting it on other forums too, like WFF, steelheader.net and gamefishing.com. This way we can get many people to come. A tip-off to the media would be great too, both the papers and television. The more people and news coverage we get, the more the impact would be.

I called the PP market this morning just to see if they had steelhead for sale today. (Not actually interested in buying) I was curious.
They do not today.
If a recreational fishermans protest happened there on a day that there was no steel for sale (such as today), would that effect the possible impact of such a protest? I think so.
Do you see what I'm trying to get at?
I like surecatch's idea, but hopefull any protest @PPM, happens when there is (wild) steelhead in the market itself.
(I believe that if any media source reports the protest, they might also mention that there wasn't any steelhead being sold that day)
$0.02

J.D.

Jaydee,

I was up there a few days ago getting some prawns and City Fish had some Wild Steelhead for sale. I asked where it came from and was told it came from the Quinault river.

The other three seafood vendors did not have steelhead.

Dave,

I hate to rain on a parade, but I'd suggest holding off a bit. First, I'd not plan it without thinking it through to the intended outcome and how this would fit in to the picture. Second, like jaydee points out, they don't have any for sale today. Hmmm, protest gone flat and wasted effort and possible media attention. Third, how about a representative organization contacting and attempting to set up a meeting or meetings with the fish houses at Pike Place and other major fish mongers in the metropolitan area. Explain the issue about wild steelhead and give them an opportunity to consider this side of the picture. Maybe they would voluntarily refuse to purchase and sell wild steelhead. (Consider the marketing confusion for a moment. Wild salmon in the marketplace simply means free-swimming in the ocean and includes hatchery salmon.) Another possibility is that fish houses may have to agree to buy a tribe's steelhead in order to also buy their salmon, creating a tougher business choice for them.

Just some thoughts.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Tom, the designation, "troll caught fish" means fish harvested by trolling hooks attatched to lines. (They're brough in by hand, mostly)
To my knowlege, the is no WA SW commercial troll fishery for steelhead, just salmon.
These commercials get a higher price for the troll-caught salmon from the fish-buyers than net-caught fish, and of course are more expensive for consumers at the market.

As salmo g mentioned, there are two kinds of steelhead/salmon, comercially speaking. Wild (free swiming), and farm-raised (in a net pen).


J.D.

...especially over one that was mangled in a net.

http://www.southeasternfish.org/Documents/commfish.html

Hmmm...

My thoughts are this: the Commissions actions will go into effect on May 1, 2004 (I think). My guess is that there will be few if no wild steelhead for sale at that time. But, it does give us plenty of time for:

1. Planning a protest
2. Speaking to the vendors at the Market
3. Reaching out to other organizations that will be quite beneficial to this.
4. Here's a novel idea - how about talking to the Northwest Indian Fishing Commission about this as well? I would love to see how the tribes would react to this change in the landscape.

Just some ideas - I am in for the long run - let's make sure we do it right.

Eddie: I thought it was April 1st.

One thing that we could point out while protesting is, what is 50% of 0? If we cannot harvest wild steelhead, then we cannot get our 50%. If the indians get 50% of the harvestable numbers, and if the harvestable numbers are 0, then how can they net the fish? If I'm wrong on theis somebody point it out.

I would gladly participate, however, one of my concerns would be media bias (this would not stop me from participating, but it should be something we'd need to address). Several years ago, my dad put together a protest on Elliot Bay he called the Elliot Bay Salmon Wake. It must have been during the summer of '93 or '94. Basically what happened, was the tribes got to do a test fishery on Elliot Bay followed by a commercial harvest. While this was going on, Elliot Bay was closed to sport fishing for salmon. An on the water protest was put together with PSA members taking news crew and cameras in their boats and being interviewed on Seacrest Pier on the night of the actual harvest.

Every sportsman interviewed, made it clear that it was a commercial harvest and that the test fishery had been done earlier in the week. However, when the story was shown on the news, it was presented as if sportsmen were protesting a test fishery and not willing to work with (tribal) biologists to determine the run strength. In the end, the story made sportsmen look like fools. I'm not sure how to fight politically correct media, but it is something we'd need to consider.

Look at the big uproar in the papers about farm raised fish?? Just imagine if we could get the point across about all the efforts and money spent to save the wild fish while allowing netting of the ESA fish. The guilt trip deal. How can you buy those wild ESA steelhead ? Would you buy a bald eagle and eat it?

Dave,
Set a date and I will be there, please e-mail everyone of the time and date and I think we can pull it off.
I also have many clients that would attend.
Peace
Superfly

Good point. That could be a good protest sign.

Fishinjunkie15 raised a common question regarding Tribal vs. non-Tribal harvest. This is not a new topic on this BB. Here is my take on it.

The Tribes are allowed 50% of the available harvest. The available harvest is defined as the numbers of fish over and above what is needed on the spawning grounds. The available harvest is independent of the allocation. That's the reason (IMHO) the Commission has been slow to take the "no-kill" position for sport angling on wild steelhead. If the sport anglers don't take their allocation of the "available harvest" of wild steelhead, the Tribes can take 100%. That is, they can take both the sport allocation and their own. Conversely, if the sport anglers don't take their 50% allocation, it will not affect the Tribal allocation.

So why would the Commission take this position? Just because the Tribes can take the entire allocation doesn't mean they will. The market for wild steelhead is not great and it's likely to go down. Prohibiting the possession of wild steelhead by sport anglers will result in more wild steelhead. I'm all for it. Plus, if the market continues to decline, it's possible the Tribes stop fishing for them as well. I think that's what Dave was driving at when he started this thread.

#1 rule is politicians will do nothing in an election year.

#2 They are deathly afraid of potential racist issues.

#3 the race card will come out first thing in this issue.


My feelings are that all commercial fishing needs to be addressed to avoid this deal killer.

So let's go to the millionaire's club and hire a couple dozen indians to hold the protest signs.

Firstly, count me IN on the protest. I'm sure we can drum up some support from our fellow PSA members as well.

Secondly, I share JacobF and TheKing's concern about the subject of media bias. I can not remember any of the newspapers or TV stations ever siding against the tribes on anything. It's like the media and most of the Western Washington populace just walked out of the theatre from watching "Little Big Man".

The last major tribal issue was when some state legislators floated the idea of allowing non-tribal fully-taxed casinos (which BTW would go a long way in solving the state's buget problems). The media portrayed this subject as the state trying to screw the tribes out of jobs and health care facilities (baby killers) -- so it never came to vote. I even remember that there was some sympathy when bald eagles were being killed for money.

I can just picture an interview with an Indian, responding to our protest, saying "They just want all the fish for themselves" and having the facts of the matter ignored.

I would not be surprised if our protesters heard some boos and shouts of "racists". The "city folk" of the Pike Place Market are probably not too concerned about sportfishermen's issues.

The TV media hosed us good when they backed-out of covering our crab protest in P.T.

If we are going to do this, I think need to stay completely focused and hammer away on ONE subject and one subject only -- the ESA listing. We are upset that listed fish are being allowed to be killed. We shouldn't even mention who is doing the killing -- let others figure that out for themselves.

Let's attack this as an environmental issue and not a sportmen's issue. I for one would welcome WT's and TU's support on this.

Well said Slabquest. The message has to stay on point as all the media energy will try to make it about racisim and emotion. Specifically in this liberal bastion.

I agree with slabquest 100%.

Everything else will be figured out without even saying it.


I think the sport vs tribal thing should be stayed away from.

I agree with Salmo g. and the others that recomend mediation before a protest...

Try to work with them before you ever work against them! It could much more productive then you would think...

Yeah, no shiot! But does this surprise anybody? We constantly have the treaty shoved in our face and we are expected to follow it "to the rule", but they never seem to.... Why isn't someone being asked this and HELD TO ANSWER? WDFW officials owe it to everyone in the state to explain how even a designated non-sustainable run (for harvest purposes) can be included in their allocation. This BS has got to stop...... What next? Shooting wild deer/elk and selling that? Saw 6 HUGE elk heads (7 and 8 points) at a Taxidermist shop and when I asked him what part of the state they came from, he told me ALL FROM THE SAME indian..... Had heads mounted and according to the Taxidermist they fetch from $7000.00 to $10,000.00 apiece..... Have to wonder where the meat went or if it was wasted.....

MC

MC..a little off topic but I'm glad you brought up the tremendous waste assaulting our natural resources at the hands of the indians. It is just mind boggling what rape they get away with. Somebody has got to get mad really soon or we won't have anything left.

In other parts of the world scum of all nationalities kill endangered animals for money. Look how they have to cut off the black rhinos horn to save that near extinct species from being killed by poachers who kill for the horns to sell to the asians who think that if they eat the ground up horn their pee pees will grow bigger. WOW what a bunch of crap!

The Dr. would be happy to come participate!!!!!!
Maybe we should try the pre-dawn phone strike. (talking sense into them first) then if they dont listen......hmmm

Mr. Vedder, I would be proud to stand with you to support the ban of wild fish sales and netting for that matter. As far as putting pressure on the tribes to stop netting, Judge Boldt took the pressure off them for good thirty years ago. Maybe we need to call for more pressure on the state to come out with a management plan that reflects the times and remind them that we vote and spend money that stays in this state and country. I think there are a lot of people that are selling off our resources without regard for anything but their wallet. The problem is the same goofballs that started the casinos are in control of a lot of things in this state.

sounds great! count me in!

Dave, if you want any information regarding the market for our seafood, send me a private message. I have worked in the seafood industry (sales and marketing) for some time. A small amount of the wild steelhead is sold in WA( Pike Place Market and a few restaurants), while the majority goes out of state and out of the country(Asia and the EU). I can say that a protest would get some good press and can be very effective locally. There is a local seafood market here that stopped selling wild steelhead, as they had a number of customers complain, and threatened to stop buying. Just getting the press would be a start. The articles get picked up by national and international press as well as industry publications.

So is this going to happen? If so it would be easy to get the word out to other boards, FHN, STS, and even other places. If you get a few hundred people to show, or even a thousand, it would create quite a stir. And if the television news, and newspappers are tipped off then that could mean hundreds of thousands of people would see this issue. If this is possible then we might just be able to get soemthing to change. It would deffinatly bring the topic into the local mainstream.

So is it a go? Time to start planning?

A while ago i planned a support our troops rally, if this goes down i would totally lvoe to help plan it and be there for sure! I will help get as much media attention as posiible! If somone wants to plan this thing, let me know and perhaps we can start! If some of the older members (no offense you guys) show up and then som of the younger ones, like me and FJ 15 and posiibyl some of my friends i think we could totally get a lot of attention towards the cause!

I think the hardest part would be getting a permit, then comes the easy part of planning it, and having the people show up!

Lets force the states hand. Lets file a class action law suite for descrimination.Judge Bolt says the tribes are entitled to 50% of the harvest. The state allows the tribe to net natives. The other 50% should be ours to take.

It seems if we bring a class action lawsuite for our 50% something will have to give. We will force the state to either allow us to keep nats or stop the killing in the nets. I think it will force the state to deal with the tribe.

In a previous thread, one of our members said the state won't deal with the tribe because they don't want an expensive litigation.

Lets give it to them and force their hands. Lets paint them into a corner.

The Quinault tribe is allowed to net native silvers and steelhead on the Hump. Their nets will be in till april 15th.

Maguana

"Without rules we all might as well be hanging from trees and flinging our crap at each other" R. Foreman

I work close by so if you do it around the hour... I will be there.

-rbf

Dave

Here is something for you to thing about!

Enjoy!

RCW 77.110.020
Petition to congress.
The people of the state of Washington petition the United States Congress to immediately make the steelhead trout a national game fish protected under the Black Bass Act.

Lacey Act Amendments of 1981 (P.L. 97-79, 95 Stat. 1073, 16 U.S.C. 3371-3378, approved November 16, 1981, and as amended by P.L. 100-653, 102 Stat. 3825, approved November 14, 1988, and P.L. 98-327, 98 Stat. 271, approved June 25, 1984) These amendments repealed the Black Bass Act and sections 43 and 44 of the Lacey Act of 1900 (18 U.S.C. 43- 44), replacing them with a single comprehensive statute.

Under this law, it is unlawful to import, export, sell, acquire, or purchase fish, wildlife or plants taken, possessed, transported, or sold: 1) in violation of U.S. or Indian law, or 2) in interstate or foreign commerce involving any fish, wildlife, or plants taken possessed or sold in violation of State or foreign law.

The law covers all fish and wildlife and their parts or products, and plants protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species and those protected by State law. Commercial guiding and outfitting are considered to be a sale under the provisions of the Act.

Felony criminal sanctions are provided for violations involving imports or exports, or violations of a commercial nature in which the value of the wildlife is in excess of $350. A misdemeanor violation was established, with a fine of up to $10,000 and imprisonment of up to 1 year, or both. Civil penalties up to $10,000 were provided. However, the Criminal Fines Improvement Act of 1987 increased the fines under the Lacey Act for misdemeanors to a maximum of $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 for organizations. Maximum fines for felonies were increased to $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for organizations.

Rewards are authorized for information leading to arrests, criminal convictions, civil penalties, or the forfeitures of property, and for payment of costs of temporary care for fish, wildlife, or plants regarding a civil or criminal proceeding. Strict liability is established for forfeiture of illegal fish, wildlife or plants, and marking requirements for shipments of fish and wildlife must conform to modern commercial practices.

Those enforcing the Act are authorized to carry firearms, make qualified warrantless arrests for felony and misdemeanor violations of any law of the U.S. when enforcing the Act, search and seize under Attorney General guidelines, issue subpoenas and warrants, inspect vessels, vehicles, aircraft, packages, crates, and containers on arrival in the United States from outside the United States or prior to departure from the United States.

Amendments to the humane shipment provisions of Title 18 required the Secretary of the Interior to issue regulations governing such activity.

As amended May 24, 1949, 18 U.S.C. 42 (63 Stat. 89, September 2, 1960; P.L. 86-702; 74 Stat. 753; and November 29, 1990, P.L. 101-646, 104 Stat. 4772) prohibits importation of wild vertebrates and other animals listed in the Act or declared by the Secretary of the Interior to be injurious to man or agriculture, wildlife resources, or otherwise, except under certain circumstances and pursuant to regulations.

I think this applies to fish or game taken illegally. or poached....indian netting of wild fish is legal.

What do you think happens to all those wild steelhead that are killed in the gill net fishery in the Columbia?

Well, I tried to stay quiet while I read up on this controversy. I was actually hoping for some dialogue from the indians view point so I could see each side more clearly.

I have never seen any other country feel bad for the people they have taken over. In fact, if anyone was to try to take us over now, we'd be eliminated. For some odd reason, we try to be kind to our enemies. Try the soldiers that were dragged through the streets as we pour billions into Iraq to help them restore their government and society. If they were here, you know the drill....
Anyhow, is there some reason I am a second class citizen in my own country? Are we not all americans? Why do I get to pay the fees and have rivers closed off to me.? No casino pays me, I pay the fees on my own. I actually love the indians history and culture, but there is no reason I should stand behind them or anyone else when it comes to my rights in my country. Ok, venting done!

Ok...my feelings about "Wild Steelies" has already got me kicked off one site....so i'll be gentle, :p I thunk that if you are gonna list a fish...species...as endangered it should apply to everyone...no culture...net....guide...angler should be able to compromise it's wellbeing in any way. I'm ok with following those rules...so should everyone else...If you are of "native american" decent then maybe you should go about your harvest in the manner that your ancestors did. No motors....no aluminum for that matter...this is not a rip on "native americans". I was born in the NW, am i a Native American?? Should i/we have the same rights?? I think it's time to cut off the freebies. There is a very distinctive difference between a hatchery fish and a "Native", You know.....only we can tell the difference..i mean US...Sport anglers... No netter has ever told a tale of the nate that ripped thier 9inch mesh tangle net Ban all nets... sell only pen or hatchery fish....Heck..let the native americans run a hatchery and sell the fish that return and they can do whatever they want with them.... Ok..Cops is on..i'm out

Louis F.

WOW I'll bet that when you said everyone, even the guides, Bet that got you alot of flack..I agree that if the resources are that limited, then EVERYONE should be included in any type of shut down of the fisheries.