Fly fishing only waters

I was asked the question heres the answer


Fly fishing only waters

Hoko river
Kalama
Cady lake
Ebby lake
Merrial Lake
Pass lake
Squalicum lake
Vogler lake
Browns creek
Rocky ford creek and pond
Aeneas lake
Bayley lake
Big four lake
Browns lake
Chopaka lake
Leech lake
Long lake
Mcdowell lake
Quail lake

...and how many thousands of river and lakes are there in this state?

I don't mind if there are a few ff'g only areas...especially if they're put'n'take lakes designed to promote a "quality" fishery...but you won't find me advocating for any more in anadromous fishing zones.

If any of those areas need extra protection from bait, or treble hooks, or high pressure fishing, than selective gear rules ought to be sufficient for all of those reasons.

Every once in a while a fly-guy will get a bit up in arms saying that gear guys have so many more places to fish...which, of course, is pure bunk. I always ask them "Show me one, single, place in the State where a flyfisherman cannot fish during an open season"...which they can't.

Every single place that is open for any kind of fishing anywhere is open to a flyfisherman, they actually have the greatest opportunity of all gear types.

Now, I realize that just because Blue Creek is open to flyfishing, it would be a bit hard to flyfish there with all the gear guys around, though I've seen them manage at Reiter, which isn't a whole lot better as far as room goes.

Fish on...

Todd

I would add one of the more famous pieces of Fly Fishing Only Water - the North Fork of the Stillaguamish. However, it is important to note that the North Fork fishery is fly fishing only for a specific period of time during the year and the Kalama has 2 (I think) specific areas of fly fishing only. I'm not sure if there is any further caveats on the Hoko.

Thanks

I also should have mention that most are catch and release...I realy dont have a problem with Fly only spots its the guys who try to mandate new "special" rules for a select group of fishermen that I dont like. how about it we have places where just blond haired people can fish. I have black hair its just an example....DJ

I think it would be pretty hard to FF for springers in the Columbia. Or how about chinook at Pt. Defiance? Or lake trout in Chelan? There are many places like these that it is nearly impossible to get a fly down to the fish. Now you said "open areas" and yes fly fishers can fish anywhere but, that does not mean that they can fish for what the gear guys are targeting and catching.This is what I belive thouse fly fishermen ment by what they said.

Oh and about anadromous areas, I belive that FF only is a great way to help a fishery since 95+% of fish caught by fly fishermen are released. It's just what most fly fishermen do. I don't belive that you will get that percentage in a "selective gear" water.

General question in the 'don't know dept.' In the 'fly only' waters in Washington is/are you 'restricted' to an actual fly rod/line?

We have about a 4 month 'fly only' on the upper Rogue but you can use a spinning rod/float ... just no weight below the float (except for the fly's themselves).

More restrictive (to put it mildly) on the North Umpqua.

FJ

I agree that they release fish but I also think soft fly rods and the drag of the heavy fly line along with the slow fight due to a small leader test also kill more fish due to exhaustion...DJ

FJ,

No...they mean they want more fly-only waters, where only they can fish.

Fred,

In Washington, flyfishing only means no fixed-spool reels (i.e., spinning reels), a certain length of fly line, and lures must be made of certain materials (traditional fly materials).

Oh, also FJ, flyflingers may release a lot of fish, but be careful going down that road. I'm a 90% gear fisherman, and I release ten times as many fish as *most* of my flyfishing brethren catch in a year, and I release way, way, over 95% of what I catch.

Fish on...

Todd

First off I didn't want to open a new can of worms!

I ask for info from DJ to enlighten me on new areas! And he did, Thanks again.

I don't get around the state like I use to.

Generally, I agree that "fly only" is pretty lame and only serves to create a situation were every fly fisher in the state shows up on the weekends and makes for a rather crowded fishing experience.

I can see how the catch rate is less for flies, generally, than other gear so it helps foster environments with larger fish. But, I'm not sure how a spoon with a single barbless hook would cause anymore mortality than a wooley bugger. I don't see that fighting time is more lengthy with a fly rod, thoguh, which as been argued. Most fishers are conscious of chosing appropriately meaty equipment for the fish they go after. Sure there are exceptions, but that's life.

I'd like to see selective gear/C&R rules in our lakes and rivers increase. Keep the existing fly-only waters, though. There are a lot of fly fishers than only fish fly only water so by keeping up those exclusive locations, it'll keep them away from where I fish! :p I fish a lot of places that are open to everyone and generally get a whole lot less pressure than those special fly only spots.

You know, I've done quite a bit of fishing in BC. My observation is that there are at least 3 times as many, if not more, fly only waters there than in this state. Interesting...they also have a lot more "quality" fisheries, IMO.

Before reading any further, all please note that this is my personal opinion; it does not necessarily represent a WT position.

But one thing I think is not being considered is something called "angler efficiency." For most anadromous species, under most conditions, flyfishers hook fewer fish than anglers using other gear types (in the aggregate), never mind what the relative hooking mortalities are or what people do with the hooked fish once they're landed. The point being that a rule allowing only flyfishing could be used as a legitimate management tool to reduce fishing-related impacts, while still allowing some angling opportunity. I'm not advocating it; just making a point that privacy for us elitists isn't the only possible motive for such a regulation.

And I'm not exactly sure what's so "discriminatory" about it anyway. The analogy about blondies doesn't work, because the regulation would be unlikely to apply to only those of us who already own flyrods. To be perfectly frank, I think there may be a few of you I would rather not have to fish with, but a flyfishing-only reg wouldn't necessarily guarantee me that luxury, as the reg doesn't stop you from going out and buying yourself a flyrod. Likewise, nothing in the regs stops me from going out and buying some new tackle so that I would have an actual opportunity to go out to Possession and bother you guys with my snotty purist presence, never mind how much you may dislike my ilk.

what about the upper hoh in the park????
It was selective gear for years and i never saw another sole up there. Then all of the sudden its fly only water Can you tell me why? From what the park ranger said its because of the ahole ranger who wanted a private place to have there fly fishing club. I agree fly only waters can be good in some places with really depressed runs (cause they catch less fish) but the hoh isnt and you still dont see alot of ff guys up there. MOST ff guys seem like cry fishermen to me and we should all be able to fish the same waters. sorry for rambling on but this issue of fly only waters really pisses me off.
Thanks kris

Well, Aunty I have to say I kind of like your plan, because, well, that would be me.

Hey, now! Wait just a gall durn minute...

Well, I see both points. Luckily, I do both, so no biggie. LOL. But VB, sorry to say but your account doesn't hold water. It is a blonde hair type thing. What would happen if someone who has been fishing a stretch for 20+ years suddenly is told they can't fish there unless they use a fly? I feel a "selective gear rules" would well fit the bill. I agree with Kris about the upper Hoh. I used to fish it myself alot, but ONLY with fly anyways. But would suck for those who would like to toss spoons or spinners. And just because one is fishing gear, isn't a guarantee they're catching fish. I can see flyfishing only lakes. But not rivers, especially navigatible rivers. If anyone can float them, anyone should be able to fish them (minus bait for those fish close to spawning).

Lastly, if someone is bound and determined to catch a fish on a fly in deep lakes/bays, then do it. But you won't be doing the traditional method. Go take a flyspool and spool it with straight mono. Then attach to your fly rod and hook that mono to a downrigger. That way, when your fly is hooked, you're playing on a fly rod. Isn't that hard. In fact I've fished a flyrod successfully at Dalco/Pt D. All I did was take an old Martin Saltwater reel (don't think they're made anymore, but are huge) and filled that sucker FULL of 30# backing. Then used a 15-20' of lead core flyline (can buy the sinktip kits for them). Then attach a small section of tippet and fly. The initial strip was worst part feeding enough line to get to bottom. After that, just strip into a stripping basket and recast. Worked great, and caught alot of kings and silvers in the salt that way.

When "fly guys" use weighted leader and strike indicators, what is the difference? Purely the name. I can cast and retreive my fly outfit just at easily as my baitcaster. Silly.

Well that's fair enough, but don't current regs suck for guys who grew up snagging? What about live bait? And what about folks who can't afford any kind of fishing tackle, or don't want to have to learn how to use it? Are they being descriminated against because the regs prohibit spearing fish with a pointy stick?

Again, I'm not advocating anything. I hate having to fish around a bunch of other flyfishers; they're snotty and they take up too much room (that I need). I'm just trying to make the point that ALL regulations are restrictive of SOMETHING, and you can't really claim you're being persecuted just because you don't WANT to have to get with the program.

have you guys ever noticed that the best fly guys ive seen use large strike indicators with split shot and an egg shaped fly or bead or a weighted fly and indicator just like Float fishing?????? or is it just me???
kris
Also do you guys know about the hoh situation. I heard the ranger moved and he might open it again for spinners and what not. Maybee Bob might know. this is purley 3rd hand.

One lone Ranger (get it... ) has the power to set fishing regulations on the upper Hoh?

LOL VB, that's getting a bit too technical. Especially since most who were born when it was legal to snag are probably long since dead (unless they grew up on the Great Lakes). Difference is, most can pickup a spinning rod and at least get the rig out there. Some can never pickup how to cast a fly rod, even with teaching (know a few guys who gave it completely up even after lessons at shops). What I'm getting at is it shouldn't be what rod you have in your hand, it should be what you're using on the other end. Bait /scent restrictions are great. Lots of other things can be used in their place.

And, my Granddad wouldn't been royally ticked if he was alive today and wasn't a flyfisherman (luckily, when he died at 98 a couple years ago he was an avid fly and gear fisherman). He grew up fishing the Hoh and OP from the 1910's to his death. I know if he didn't fish flies, he'd probably been tiffed a bit. But there are others not in that boat. Under your premise, chances are those guys will STILL be fishing that way. If they're snagging, they'll STILL be snagging. But bait/livebait to "selective gear" is a whole different ball of wax. Most people can easily adjust. I know my Dad and I have on alot of rivers we've fished for years that have went to selective rules. That's just a change up of what is on the end of your line.

'69 is absolutely right. You can do just about anything with a flyrod that you can with other gear. I have a spool filled with 15# mono that I use on my downrigger in the salt. I use a tube-fly tied with dyed polar-bear that is incredibly effective for salmon(kings/cohos). And what a thrill to play the fish on the flyrod once it comes off the downrigger. Kind of like the Canadian mooching rig(which I also use). And yes, one of the most effective ways to "nymph" for steelhead is with an indicator and weighted fly or egg pattern(kind of like the single pin rigs also seen in Canada).
Just to correct, the Hoko is fly-only above the upper bridge, below is free to all. Personally I like fly only water, as it gives me more water to fish, but of course, that is selfish
Here is a question for those who do both gear and fly. How do you see fishing ettiquette compare between fly and gear fishermen? What is the basic difference in personality between fly and gear fishermen? I have friends that fish both ways, and often go fish with them while they fish gear. As long as we give each other some room, it's all good.

Kris,

Cry fisherman??? Wow, if that's not an inflammatory mark. With the 'vibes' I am picking up from your post, do you often run into problems on the stream with flyfisherman?

As a 'cryfisherman' there are three things that irk me on the river. 1) Getting low holed by any angler whether on foot or by boat. 2) Any angler that sticks to one spot and does not rotate through the run to give everybody a fair chance to fish. 3) Any boat that intentionally floats over the shallow flyfishing flats that drive the fish into deeper water. Basically a lack of respect for other anglers. If you regularly cross these boundaries, you are regularly going to have streamside conflicts.

"have you guys ever noticed that the best fly guys ive seen use large strike indicators with split shot and an egg shaped fly or bead or a weighted fly and indicator just like Float fishing?????? or is it just me???"

Not too start another war from another point, but you are right- just like float fishing. Not 'really' flyfishing at all. And this simple point is a huge wedge driven between the fly community about what constitutes 'flyfishing'. And you think WSR is a hot topic...

And I agree- there does not need to be more 'flyfishing' only waters. Washington State's 'selective gear' rules are more than enough to protect the fish though lowering incidental mortality.

William

I won't weigh in on whether there should be more fly fishing only waters. What is clear from the posts here, however, if there is a lot of ignorance, and I'll say selfishness, on the part of the anti's.

If you want to catch steelhead on a fly, you either need room, or a group of people fishing the same way. If there are guys standing 10 feet away on each side of you, you can't fly fish. If there is a gear chucker standing 20 feet below you, and not moving, you can't fly fish. Oh, sure, you can cast, but you can't fish. If you are going to try and tell a flyfisher that Blue Creek is available, well, pardon me while I roll my eyes and proceed to ignore the rest of what you have to say on the subject, because you clearly aren't interested in reason.

I fish both ways, and can see both sides. Given that flyfishermen comprise about 10 percent of the anglers, y'all should be grateful that there are only 3 out of the 200 steelhead streams in this state that have gear restrictions.

Not that it matters at all, but I'll add a little bit. I like to fly fish, but have given up on it for rivers.....just too much water that cannot be covered by fly fishing. In my book, if you are adding weight and strike indicators, you aren't fly fishing......any more than using a spin bobber and fly.....if the presentation can't be cast back and forth, it's just a fly fishing cheat. Legal, but so what? My experience is that late in the season fly fishing can produce a lot of fish...right off their redds....sorry, not interested in that, either.

This doesn't mean at all, that I don't enjoy fishing next to or with a fly fisherman. Most I have met are rather nice. There are a few whose fashion statement is more show than go, but as long as their ego is not condiscending, I enjoy the effort and beauty of a well executed double haul and the mindful mending of fly line.

But I usually don't watch too long.....I'd rather catch fish.

To be fair, we need a few waters designated fly only with no retention, a few single barbless hook one fish a day retention, and a select few managed as fish any way you want, kill your limit, no effete fly fishers allowed, unless they can chew tobacco, cuss like a logger, and promise not to be releasing any fish.

That way each group could experience whatever particular ambiance they like best in a fishing situation. Of course the first two groups would have consistently better fishing, as the latter group would soon wipe out most of the fish, but they would have the philosophical joy of knowing that their rights were protected. And each group could have roughly the same amount of water to fish. Seems too fair to me.

Ok I do both grear and fly. read the hole thing before you fire your guns

the snobish of the snobs that you ever meet on the river are usualy A FEW fly fishermen Im willing to bet that avid fly fishing commissioner R.P. Van geekensmeck has other ideas that are to follow. BUT AT THE SAME TIME especially for example king fishing on the samish (meat rivers) you can meet ALOT of unsavory fishermen that really dont give 2 cents weather they are rude or not....Ive SEEN AND HEARD some terrible stuff and sometimes near kids and didnt like it. I dont see why someone would have special rites to fish water that should belong to everyone. as a management tool is a pretty lame stand to take, if the run is that low then the river in question sholud be closed to every one

...But for some unknown reason the fly snobs believe that is there are no other people with the same passion as they have and might perfer to chuck spoons, pink worms, jigs etc.

deciding on how other people fish or release fish is snobish dont ya think....DJ

Hmmm...going off on a bit of a tangent...but I'll run with it.

The situations in which I find fishermen to be rude, obnoxious, ignorant, or just plain a$$holes...in order from most to least...

1. Fall salmon fishing meat holes. Snagging, littering, swearing...and standing shoulder to shoulder doing it. Probably the most disgusting display of "sportsmanship" you will ever see.

3. Flyfishermen fishing for chums or pinks on the Skagit. I've seen the L.L. Bean catalog models slide out of their Mercedes SUV's, saunter on down to the river, and proceed to foul hook fish after fish, right of their redds if it's chum season. Not only that, they manage to look down their noses at the "gear guys", even the ones that are actually fishing moving water and legally hooking fresh fish.

6. Any fishermen, fly or gear, who stand on the same rock for four hours. At least move around a little bit.

7. Float fishermen at Reiter. Doesn't anyone remember when that hole was the most classic drifting hole in the entire steelheading world? Can't drift worth a crap in there anymore with the flotilla.

Have I offended everyone yet? I don't mean to leave anyone out!!

Lemme know if someone didn't get their due...

Fish on,

Todd

To me, the idea of dumping all fly fishers, especially in WA, into a single attitude shows total ignorance. I've fished bait and gear for 30 years and now fish exclusively fly. Why? I find it more challenging- more physical and athletic, more thinking with the flies I've learned to tie (poorly and yes less effective- but way more fun for me. I've yet to meet anyone who has given fly fishing a try who doesn't still participate even if they gear fish a bit here and there. So I would say I've never met a great fisherman who hasn't tried fly fishing, who doesn't still do it. I've met many, most, fly fishers who grew up bait and gear fishing and choose not to fish that style now. I've never met an anti-fly guy who's actually tried fly fishing. As for Fly only water- the only exclusion is talent. If you can't cast a fly line, you can't catch fish. No big deal... so much the better.

Very interesting (Arte Johnson would love this)
Etiquette is lacking on everyone not just the fly guys!
Reading all the post makes you think a little?
Every one has problems with cracker?
Fly or Gear guys.
Maybe better education?

You would be hard pressed to find an angler out there with soft fly rods and small leaders catching steelhead. It takes just as long to land a steelhead on a flyrod as it does a run of the mill drift rod.

There are also many anglers who fish terminal tackle with too light of rods and too light of leaders that play steelhead to death.

Whether you are a flyfishermean or a gear fisherman, it is your responsibility to use the apporiate gear for the situation. And each user group can very easily show up to the river 'under gunned.'

And as I said in an earlier thread, you will not find me advocating for new fly-only waters for steelhead as I think Selective Fisheries serve the same purpose. And I will be honest, I have no problem with Selective Fisheries and I believe that the WDFW needs to utilize Selective Fishery regulations more often to help protect our juvenille steelhead, salmon and resident trout. Selective Fisheries do NOT exclude a single user group!

DJ-
Your arguement may seem a little more valid to the rest of us, if you provided basis for your constant use of the word 'snob' and your name calling towards Pete V.G.

Remember, this is NOT an issue of fly vs. gear. It never has been, it never will be.

Inland
I agree cry fisherman is harsh and uncalled for. sorry. It really pushes my buttons though when An area that i have fished for 30 years, and caught my first fish in is all of the sudden closed to me cause fly fishing is better than a barbless hook on a spinner. Recently i got into jig fishing on the hoh in the park in the summer but now i cant while some guy with a fly rod can through a jig and indicator in the same spot. Just cause we used different reels we cant fish the same spot?????? That is why i have a problem with fly fishing in general. I moved to this state to fish areas like this. And cause i dont ff i cant fish them all????? Again Inland Im sorry I shouldnt have said that and im sure there are alot of good guys that ff.
Kris

I agree that inadequate gear and a long fight is bad for fish. Doesn't matter if it's spin or fly.

:rolleyes:

Oh yeah if it makes any diff. i met a fly guy on the hoh one time and he was a great guy. I was fighting a nice steelie and he came down and video taped it for me. We ended up fishing for the rest of the day together and he hooked and lost a nice fish along the way. Like i said he was a great guy and i still have the flashy jig/flies he gave me. I just have a problem with fly only waters and im sorry to say this but that rule about holding fish out of water is bs!!!!!!! i think that has been covered enough already though. Im sorry if this pissed anyone off but its how i feel.
Kris
Bob if you read this do you know if anything is or has been done on the hoh. Would there be a way to do something cause ff only in the park is bs. In all the years i was up ther i saw MAYBEE 2 other people so i know killing fish wasnt a problem. And im all for going out and taking action on this one. Thanks kris.

very interesting (AJ)

Kris,

No offense was taken, and I kind of like the new moniker. I should re-register under a new handle.

William

DJ: Not at all. Your argument could just as well be made by snaggers, gillnetters, dynamiters and any one else whose "rights" are restricted by the rules. That's what sport fishing rules do.

I have actually met a few snobbish fly fishers, maybe even a slightly higher percentage of them than gear guys. But gear guys can be snobs too. I know one who thinks downriggers are the same as commercial fishing and will not set foot on a boat that has a down rigger. I know one who thinks side drifting is for imbeciles and those who have absolutely no talent as steelheaders. But, I, like so may fly flingers do both, enjoy both, and do not believe one manner of fishing is somehow more holy than another. Yet the fly guys have a hard time enjoying their sport when crowded in with gear guys and I think they should be able to enjoy the fruits of the better fishing that results from their generally strong C&R ethic. Note that the vast majority of all selective gear waters do allow spinners, spoons, flatfish, as long as they have a single barbless hook. But I seldom see any gear guys on the Yakima or other selective gear waters. I wonder why? Don't want to rub elbows with the snobs or only want to fish with bait?

Intresting topic. I spent some time looking it up and Idaho has no "fly fishing only waters".. there are bait restictions in several places and single barbless hook restrictions in some places, but no "fly fishing only water"... I used to be a fly fishing only guy, until I realized that there was a lot more out there. I would think it would un-constitutional to impose a fly fishing only rule on public water ?? However, WSR is not about fly fishing... lots of people think its a good idea who don't even own a fly rod

Ok I well keep the snob references out.

I dont know Commissionor Von Geek but I also relised that the guy who wrote the atricle for wash H+F news got that vibe from him or her wouldnt put it in the atricle. So Thats My Assumption yes I take full responsibility for it...Im actually hoping lots of people question him for his actions Hes scheduled for part 2 of the interview I would like to hear his thoughts.

Now back to the topic I like the way todd writes I had to agree with the list he put togather. and please remember Im not a Neanderthal Im Neanderthal like it takes along time to put my thought into words so sometimes that are a little sharp around the edges. Ask any one that know me and they well tell you I love to fish. I keep a log and Ive had 108 entrys of successful trips starting the 24 of jan 03 I do not log trips where I dont catch fish so how many times do I fish im not sure ...I travel alot and fish lots of differt styles and have caught every thing from bass to wahoo...the only two fish that I want to catch and havent yet is a over 100 pound butt and a rooster fish from the warm waters to our south.

Homer thought everyone had a problem with crackers I do not there are former crackers on this board I well not list them but they fish with me all the time but lurk in the shadows with out posting HINT HINT. With a little bit of help these crackers have become great fishermen.

I also believe that no one should have more then 6 fish in there freezer at one time. Now I dont go out a try to pass laws making sure that everyone only has 6 fish, and sometimes I cant keep the smoker going fast enough I get more then 6. But I do try to maintain 6 and I when at all possible I try to instill that into the guys who fish with me (when the timing is right theres nothing worse then some one pushing there style on you when the timing is not right) I seen the topic not to long ago some to the line of "your walking out with a 24 pound king and some guys backs out of the river and says you realy should use a orange corkie" and your the one holding the fish....go figure....so back in track

So heres my point (I know I drove along way to get here) I dont really have a problem with fly fishing ony waters, or how you fish as long as its ethical I hate snaggers..Now dont get me wrong fly only waters are wrong but to me thats small potatoes. But you have to admit there are some people who just want every thing there way. WCR is wrong not because I dont want to save steelhead, its because someone in seattle (that no one realy knows his agenda) is now telling people who have managed good returns that they now have to start releasing there results. its just wrong...I do catch and release LOTS of fish. I have no problem with rivers that have low returns being C+R barbless hooks only. its just when someone one without knowing their agenda comes across and trys to change things that dont need to be change you must stand up and take note. thats they way things get taken away...


heres my mental picture:

a group of guys appointed to take care of the wildlife are reviewing submitted public input on how to protect our wildlife. Out of the blue one says lets just ban forever the keeping of wild fish. another points out there well be people up in arms if you do that. so out of the blue the same one says lets do it for 6 years. the others say your going to cause trouble, so a different one says lets do it for 2 years and see if we can ride out the uproar....the guy who wants it baned forever thinks to himself. In 2 years if were are still appointed to this position I well bring up the fact that its been 2 years and now the uproar has died down and no one now seems to care, we should ban it forever....Now let me ask you is this the way you want your laws made...no science, no public input, just someone with an unknown agenda apointed by the worst govener for wildlife to ever sit at the capital building and this guy describes him self as an avid fly fishermen ...answer that....

as to an item posted on this topic...Sparky I do relise that steelheaders use heavy leaders. but the drag from the heavy diameter line along with the softer rods (that restrict how much muscle you can put on the fish) do exhaust fish faster and further then gear rods.

Hey now........you tell Bill to mellow out a little.

Boy Mr vedder as soon as I think you a fence sitter you come out and make sence...

.I argee that snaggers could make the same argument but Im assuming that a majority of the board are ethical fishermen and the snaggers are over on the trailer parks pursuits board. ok im trying to hard to be funny...

That comment is a little ironic coming from someone who was so very proud of landing a large native steelhead on 'trout gear.'

Again, steelheaders dont use wispy rods. And the drag of the flyline makes little differance...like I said it takes me just as long to land a steelhead with a #9 Spey rod that it does with terminal tackle...and it takes just as long to land a steelhead with my #7 single-hander as it does terminal tackle.

Deja Vu

Talk to the hand, cause the ears aint listening.

The trout gear fish was very cool. we were fishing for trout and the steelhead took the little tiny egg that was on the line. total supprise and was very cool. the fish was caught it a river that has both wild and hatchery fish and hatchery fish can be keept there. on 6 pound test the fish ran far and we realy couldnt tell if it had a fin or not. the fish was hooked in the hole just below the 99 bridge on the samish river and ran to the 4th house on the left of the river thats his lawn where the fish is beached. its only about 100 yards oh yea I totally lied about the 1/4 mile stuff and where we we Im not saying that Im not above lying to the main board to keep the places I fish a little less crowded. there have been a few people that privately email me and Im always open for questions. I give away good fishng spots all the time and do show alot of things just like an open book....so go ahead and judge My friend who caught the fish and myself for not makeing him break it off.
which I may or maynot have done myself...this is the point I have been trying to make...IT WAS HIS CHOISE TO LAND THE FISH NOT YOURS NOT MINE...it still is he can land the fish and take his lure out...why would you guys want to give up your choices.....PS Im sure that fish lived...I dont have evidence but Im telling you may I never catch another fish that it didnt dye...judge away....DJ

Todd pretty much sumed it up for me. There are very few waters that I enjoy fishing more than areas like Dry Falls, Rocky Ford Creek etc..

Now if commissoner Van Geekenbeck was to propose a statewide flyfishing only rule. I wouldn't like that very much and I'm worried that the recent statewide WSR ruling looks too much like that to me.

PS Sparky I realy dont hate you I realy dont hate anyone.....its all this lets tell everyone else how to fish stuff...I think I have good ethics and pride myself in teaching what I know (fishing) ...its the thought of you know whats best for all of us BS
and again I question every bodys logic when it comes to changing things that arent broke....please reread the mental pic I posted above...I have no proof on how it went down but in my life I have seen things go away but stuff that starts just like this....the fly rod stuff is just to give you something to think about what If I submit a bill to not let you fly fish for steelhead (with the above reasons) and it somehow makes it bye mr Von G then I even tongue in cheek gloat about it on this board.
what are we to think about you...think about it
ask around for people who know me they well tell you Im not about being Neanderthal...DJ

DJ: I sincerely appreciate your evenhanded and analysis and the fact that you can argue without insults and name calling unlike some on this board.

I do not think that there is much chance of a proliferation of fly-fishing only waters in this state. When I look at the list above I see few if any recent additions. This like so many of our threads relate to the fact that we have all lost so many opportunities in the last couple of decades that it's understandable why anyone would cringe at any further lost opportunity. I think that overall we all share the goal of more opportunity and more fish. While I freely admit that there are plenty of non-fly fishers who work hard for the resource, guys like Grandpa, there are also many fly-fishing organizations that also work hard for more opportunity. Too bad we have such a hard time cooperating on things like getting rid of gillnets, clear cuts, pollution, draining of swamplands etc. etc. etc.

Dave-

I think your summed it up nicely.... People are tired of lost opportunity. Its like taxes, people are sick of taxes so even school levies are failing at an alarming rate.... (Sequim might lose all sports, art, etc... in May) Eyemans initatives prove this as well, harmful in the long run, but short term relief.

You hit the nail on the head.

I have said before it was to bad sparky didnt see a netter pull a chum out of a net and strip her eggs and toss her back....I would buy him lunch if he chased that agenda. But to pick the smallest pesentage of fish kill and make every do it the same why he does is wrong. My release tactics werent much different execpt I would take a pic I well stand by my live release stats if it were possible to keep them. I still feel that light line (Rob was guily and I was with him so I am too) / and fly rods do as much damage as bad releases but. Education is the answer not more laws.

but heres the new question pointed out by bruce what if now commissoner Van Geekenbeck was to propose a statewide flyfishing only rule.

the numbers of fish would increase because the reduction of fishermen. The netters would still get there fish. the state would pat them selves on the back saying what a great job they did on bringing back the fish.

Ok here is were I'm going to try to sell you something!

Go and read David R. Montgomery book
"King of Fish the Thousand-Year Run of Salmon"

And learn about the 5-H's

Thank you homer. I well...DJ


And PS

one of my co workers (a non fishermen)pointed out that sparkys fight ,resolve and ambition to stand up to what he thinks is right, reminds him of my passion and love of fishing. (gave me something to think about) So even though we disagree (you big fly weenie) dont change a bit the sport grows on passion.

I can go fit in at places like Minter Cr. and other shoulder to shoulder places and fly fish. I just use a roll cast and take up as much room as the other guy.

What a lot of fly fishermen don't like is the heavy lead being cast at fish that in many placed will spook them, while a fly can be cast with very little detection by the fish and won't spook them.

That is sometimes known as the "Dark Side" of fly fishing. Sometimes I will do that, but traditional fly fishing (and one that works often better than even gear fishing) for steelhead is swinging flies ising sinkinf lines not "nymphing" as that is called.

I often find that fly fishermen are more friendly to talk to and will tell you what is working and how to catch the fish. Fly fishermen I've also noticed are more friendly to the enviroment (little or no garbage in fly fishing only waters). Fly fishermen are also seem to use the fishing ethics i.e. no stepping in below a person fishing a run.

Now gear fishermen (not all but many) leave garbage, have little respect for other angler and are other secretive. Keep in mind that this is not all gear fishermen.

I'm a little confused

Are you saying that people who live in trailer parks are unethical or unethical people only live in trailer parks?
And either way what does that have to do with the subject?



herm

LOL, I think what he means is that it seems most of the coined "redneck white trash snaggers" you see on the rivers are either uneducated, poor, or both. LOL. Just tying in an image. Is it correct? Not all the time. But I can personally attest to one snagfest on a local Gig Harbor Chum Creek where I knew most of the snaggers (delivered to all of them, or knew them from talking to them on the route) and most fit that bill to a T. Is that correct for everyone? Nah. But just one of those "stereotypes" people use.

Sheesh, some people read a bit too far into some of these posts. Hell, I guess I'm one sometimes. LOL

By Bruce
"Now if commissoner Van Geekenbeck was to propose a statewide flyfishing only rule. I wouldn't like that very much and I'm worried that the recent statewide WSR ruling looks too much like that to me."

By DJS
"but heres the new question pointed out by bruce what if now commissoner Van Geekenbeck was to propose a statewide flyfishing only rule."
Man, do you know how absurd you guys sound. Your really grasping at straws. What if one of the commercial guys proposed you can only fish with a net?

It was only an anology showing how small things grow big. Are you so blind that you dont think people have agendas. I know there are poeple out there that would love to see somthing like that maybe not such a grand scale but......


and the trailer park thing was just a point... others got it..Mr Vedder pointed out that the snaggers must have been p***ed when they had to stop.......let me start in on the imigrants that dont understand english when the game wardon shows up at the "wall of shame on whatcom creek"....I never fish there but stop by to watch the cops swoop in on bikes and hand out citations....its just like the TV show...DJ

The only agenda is to be proactive for wild steelhead and preserve angling opportunity for the "deemed healthy" streams before they fall victim to the trends of other rivers in the state.

There is still hatchery fish to harvest! Also the two year moratorium will give time and opportunity to come up with improved steelhead management plans.

Double Haul,

I was hopin' you was gonna be sayin' that we need more flyflingin' only spots. I was gonna challenge ya to a fight.



Instead you had to go and be reasonable.

Whattayasay we outlaw spey rods on any river that begins with "S"...

I guess then I'd have Homer and Sinktip after me...I could take either one of 'em

Later...

Todd

Todd


But you better have your twin with

You make a great point...we are all passionate about the sport and the fish. The sport and the fish are important to each and every one of us but in many many different ways. I hate to say it but I think the bickering that takes place is inevitable because of this.

...if only we could put our differances aside and put the fish first. But then again, like I just said, the fish are important to us in different ways...

What are we to do???

Todd

I'm waiting!

I just had to say it

H2H,

What....you waitin' to scrap?

If I wait until the afternoon, you'll be so tired from all that flailing I can probably keep casting while I whoop up on ya!

Todd

You got it sucker!

Hey Todd I got a new TuTu
It looks great on me!

Ok, Ok...

This is where I swallow my pride, Homer, and take one for the team.

Todd
Official silver medal winner in the scrap w/ Homer.

If I'm lucky enough to EVER become an "elite" fly fisherman - hope I don't loose my Chimacum upbringing!

Isn't that what distinguishes real NW fishermen from Eastcoasters? ... Real Fly FisherMEN, who cuss when it's appropriate, chew tobacco on on the water, and use spell check before posting.
- If Fly fishing in romeo's and a hand-me-down filson offends, maybe consider moving.

(Not you Dave ... I took the liberty of changing effete to elite, if I'm wrong, this post really looses it's puch)

Seriously, I can't see how a different way to catch fish can be bad! (I'm just learning) I encourage other gear fishemen to give fly fishing a try. I think most people just don't like to endure the learning curve and expense of a new sport. Don't know that I'll forgo one for the other though.

And Todd: I agree Posers are irritating anywhere: @ Tower Records, on the trail/campground, on the river, ski slopes, and so on, and so on.

KK, do you think it is a good idea to have a CnR fishery where bait is allowed?

What about barbed treble hooks, do you think they are a good idea in a CnR fishery?

So would you agree that if we are going to have a statewide WSR ruling then it should be a no bait single barbless hook fishery? Wouldn't that be in the best interest of the fish?

"Now, Bruce, would you support WSR if bait were allowed.or trebles? Turnabout is fair play..ya think?"

I think having a CnR fishery that allows the use of bait or anything more than a single barbless hook is not in the fishes best interest and should not be allowed.

Now a no bait, single barbless hook may not be fly fishing only but it is pretty close.

Ok you got me

Fly fishing and selective gear/single barbless hooks and no bait are not close and using bait in a CnR fishery might be a good idea.

"Bait in a CnR fishery may simply be the type of compromise that is needed to further the goal of increasing wild stocks."

Maybe until the next rule setting cycle. Then some groups may decide that a statewide bait ban is needed or a statewide single barbless hook fishery is need. All in the name of conservation of course, after all why in the world would you want to fish for wild steelhead using bait or treble hooks?

It's all a step in the right direction, right?

.

I would like to re-phrase that so it more accuratley reflects what I think you're really saying.


"I would think fishing for some is better than none"

NOT!!

I my self like the Idea of fly fishing only waters especially if they C&R. I mean were in this state can you catch trophy size trout. The pressure on lakes and ponds that get stocked is just totally outrageous. I went to Blackmans Pond in Snohomish last week and there was like 50 boats, tubes, pontoon rafts out there and the docks were just literally covered with people. I said I am not going to fish that went to Pass Lake on 20 and ther was only like ten people out there it was great. Caught some very nice rainbows about 18 to 22 inchs and some pretty scrappy cutthroat. I wasnt disappointed I had to put them back Fishing doesnt always mean keep the fish to eat if you enjoy then practice catch and release.

.

So am I uncivilized because I eat fish, or becase I dont agree with you? I just want to get it right, so I know how to respond.

A statewide mandatory wild steelhead CnR policy will definalty give some people more room to fish stlhd_dreaming.

It is nice having some selected waters set aside for that purpose, I also enjoy the solitude that it creates.....

"Bruce.....you and I both know, that WSR does not restrict one's opportunity to fish, just to kill."

Of course it doesn't but there's no denying that this type of regulation usually results in less Angler participation, just like stlhd_dreaming pointed out.

I guess it boils down to what your perception of opportunity is.

what about selective gear rules? surely that can't be worse than flyfishing

Quote by Bruce

“Of course it doesn't but there's no denying that this type of regulation usually results in less Angler participation, just like stlhd_dreaming pointed out.”


Bruce: I do not have to agree that C&R will reduce angler participation. I know that in B.C. where C&R was implemented in the 80's initially pressure did decrease, but as the fish rebounded so to did the pressure. If there is good fishing they will come. Anglers travel from all over the world to experience the type of fishing found on their quality C&R rivers.

The real questions are will C&R improve the fishing. If so the pressure will increase. But as Salma and others have pointed out C&R is not a cure all for habitat degradation, over fishing buy other users and ocean conditions. We do need to address those issues, but all things considered a released steelhead represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead steelhead is just high cost protein.

Dave I don't believe that a statewide WSR policy will improve our fishing and many examples of WSR being practiced around the state for years now seems to confirm that belief. Therefore I see your point about fishing getting better and increased angler participation being moot and just an attempt to paint a rosey picture.

As for this comment:

"but all things considered a released steelhead represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead steelhead is just high cost protein."

Once again that is your perception of how others should enjoy or be "allowed" to enjoy the resource and frankly I resent you telling me how I should be allowed to enjoy fishing.

I love fishing especially for trophy fish. I definatly doesnt bother me putting the fish back because I know someone else will have a chance to catch it. I love seeing the look on sombodies face when they catch a trophy size fish. They get all excited like it was the first fish they ever caught. Well SELECTIVE GEAR i dont mind I am not a big bait fisherman. The point with bait though is when a fish hits bait it chances of being inhaled are far better than with a plug or spinner. They implement that so that the survival rate for native fish is increased by a far more percentage than with bait. I dont keep a lot of fish. Caught over 20 steelhead this year I only kept two. I didnt hurt me not to see them on the grill. I would like to see that 14lb steelhead I caught on the wallace last year come back and be 18lb. It all depends on your opinion if you fish for food that is awesome ( I do love the taste of fish am not a tree hugger by far.) if you release the fish that is awesome to because that chrome steelie that is on the end of your line will come back next year even bigger . BUT I will never keep a native steelhead even on the rivers they are open on. To me those are trophy fish and should be kept trophy fish. So I am for this May 1st thing about releasing all native steelhead. Like I said earlier that is my opinion.

Something else I have to mention this is in reference to the better fishing people will come
Yes people will come you will have those people that come and throw there trash all over the place I hate that I take a trash in my backpack and end up picking up trash at the end of my day because people dont respect what has been given us. That hurts the fish also. At C&R places less people less trash. I like less people. I am sure a lot of you guys do to.

"but all things considered a released salmon represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead salmon is just high cost protein."

"but all things considered a released trout represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead trout is just high cost protein."

"but all things considered a released sturgeon represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead sturgeon is just high cost protein."

"but all things considered a released shad represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead shad is just high cost protein."

Where does it end. You see Dave, you and I see things from a different perpective. The difference is that I don't "expect" people to be forced into seeing it my way like you and some others do. I don't make a "distiction" between a wild steelhead or a wild shad. You choose to hold wild steelhead up on a pedistal and worship it like it is somehow a better fish than a salmon, shad or sturgeon. To me it is a gamefish to be caught and/or harvested or released by sport fisherman. It is a sport and a sport that we all enjoy in one way or another, but if people like you get your way then the rest of us will be forced into enjoying our sport your way and your way only and I don't like the idea of that. I fear that now it is steelhead but tomorrow it will be salmon then it will be sturgeon all in the name of conservation. Well you know what Dave, the simple act of fishing itself is not very conservation like, if you really want to get serious about steelhead conservation then you should just quit fishing for wild steelhead.

Bruce: As to where does it end, that is clear. In B.C. and other regions wild steelhead release ended right there. I see no reason to expect any attempt to force C&R on anyone IF the target species can stand harvest. We already have no harvest on some depressed salmon stocks. That will, I believe, end when those stock rebound sufficiently to allow harvest.

I do not make any attempt to force you to believe anything. That would obviously be futile. You will continue to believe in the harvest of wild steelhead. But your passion does not force me to see it your way either. Also please do not accuse me of forcing this down your throat. While I agree with the commissioners I was not at all active in this. I should have been, but I was not.

The commission voted and you must now live with that. Until such time as you and others who believe as you do can get the rules overturned.

If you can see no difference between a wild shad and a wild steelhead, we simply are too far apart in our views to have any chance of a reasoned debate. I have no more to say.

"I see no reason to expect any attempt to force C&R on anyone IF the target species can stand harvest."

Thats exactly whats going on right now. Don't you write articles for STS or something? Can you seriously say that we have no healthy runs of wild steelhead anywhere in this state? Can you say that we currently have no runs of wild steelhead that cannot sustain a responsible managed sport harvest??

"But your passion does not force me to see it your way either. Also please do not accuse me of forcing this down your throat."

I'm not in any way trying to force you into seeing it my way. You should feel free to release all the fish you want and start eating tofu. I've have never tried telling you or anyone else that they have to kill a fish. Your the ones telling me that I can't.

"I have no more to say."

Good..

Gee, Bruce.......that's not very scientific though is it?

Has WSR been implemented on rivers where all the other steelhead-recovery obstacles have already been fixed. Then how can their continued depression be blamed on WSR being a failure?

I just don't get how you can draw that conclusion. Maybe without WSR regs the runs would be extinct and not depressed?

Shad?

"Maybe without WSR regs the runs would be extinct and not depressed?"

Maybe.... That's why it makes a good management tool, but a statewide blanket policy? Maybe if some people didn't feel the need to target those depressed stocks, then they wouldn't be depressed. Maybe, Maybe, Maybe. One thing I know for sure is that I am a fisherman and just because I may like to take home fish and eat it does not make me any less of a fisherman than you Dan.

And by the same token........just because I'd rather fish than eat fish, doesn't make me more or less of a fisherman than you.

One thing I'm not is an elitist fly-guy from Seattle. I'm just looking to get the most fishing days for a fixed amount of "harvested" fish.

Would I deprive you of a fish dinner to get myself a couple extra fishing days? Yes........yes I would. Hope you don't hate me too much for it.

"And by the same token........just because I'd rather fish than eat fish, doesn't make me more or less of a fisherman than you."

Thats right!

Regarding you other comments.... I have no doubt that that is the case. Maybe one of these days I'll actually eat a wild steelhead. Gawd I feel so dirty even saying that on this board.

i wonder how many people fainted when you posted that ??

My whole image of you is blown..........BLOWN I'll tell you!

How about this idea, implement WSR, no exceptions, on a rivers where there is current healthy runs of wild steelhead, instead of waiting to implement it on depressed run.

But would that be proactive rule to help preserve wild steelhead and still allow angling opportunity.

Remember there are still hatchery steelhead for harvest.

BTW, How does selective gear rules always get defined has flyfishing only?

"How about this idea, implement WSR, no exceptions, on a rivers where there is current healthy runs of wild steelhead, instead of waiting to implement it on depressed run. "

Yea, lets take it one step further and protect salmon and all the other wild fish and while we're at it why don't we error on the side of the fish and just quit fishing all together. We can all take up cross stitching. Heck if we ever do decide to have fish for dinner then we can just run down to the market and buy a nice fresh wild gillnet caught steelhead.

you dont harvest hatchery fish you "retain" them

boater,

You can define the words any way you want, if that's what you'd like to do, but in fisheries management, some words have meanings, and they don't always agree with yours.

harvest fishery = a fishery where fish are bonked and taken home

harvest = bonk

By definition, a CnR season, or a hatchery season under WSR, is not a wild steelhead harvest fishery.

There are incidental mortalities on wild fish associated with CnR or WSR, but it is not harvest. It is incidental mortality.

You can shuffle the words around all you want, but these are precise terms that mean something in fisheries management...you can't just interchange them to make your point.

If your point is that WSR and CnR have incidental impacts, then point taken...I've yet to hear a single person dispute that.

Is a dead fish dead? Yes. Does the fish really care how it died? No.

That still does not make incidental mortality into harvest.

Fish on...

Todd

"Bruce...you often have rhetorically asked the same question, 'what is best for the fish', No sport, tribal or commercial fishing would, logic dictates, be best for the fish, A no brainer, ya think?"

Yep. In some cases this would be the best option. Especially if you really care about the resource.

"Would you rather 'err on the side of the fish' only to the extreme of no fishing,and to the exclusion of any other potential solution?"

Of course not.

"Can the need to be right (on both sides) be so blinding as to preclude any other possible solution, or combination of solutions?"

Some people don't want to see any other solution besides a statewide blanket ban. This is a key point and all along I have been saying that other possible solutions are available. I've seen many possible solutions posted here on this board but most of the time those ideas fall on deaf ears. Ideas such as slot limits, reduction of harvest i.e. tags, Guide restrictions etc and sometimes the current management policy is working and does not need to be "fixed".

"Maybe Dan S. is on to something here? I too, would rather fish than eat fish, and if those are the ONLY two choices this issue affords,,,,,,,,,,,,well Bruce , I firmly beleive you are in the minority."

Who said there were only two choices? Why must an Angler choose to either eat fish or just fish, why can't we do both. That is what the majority of Anglers want to do. Many Anglers enjoy sitting down at the dinner table with their family and their days catch as much as they enjoy the act of catching it. It's been that way since man first started fishing *gasp! eat steelhead, how barbaric, I only eat salmon and dead chickens!*. Of course sometimes thats just not possibe and in some cases only two choices do exist, but in other cases I tend to beleive better management options are availabe and should be used before WSR is mandated. WSR should be a last resort and/or used selectively. If you think I'm in the minority here, well then we disagree.

I dont think bruce is alone on this matter at all. runs that are healthy should be open to retention (and I have never killed a wild fish) you can still catch and release on those rivers. I also liked the rolling closure idea just take pressure off some rivers for a season or 2 then open it and close the next river down...

Every one is real quick to judge people who dont see thing the same way they do...(which I did) By the way wheres CUPO. one drive by slam on my firends steelhead on trout gear before the new release law and all of a sudden he has nothing to say....


you guys realy want to help steelhead start shooting Commorants....you know the ocean dwelling bird that is now finding its way inland to sit on that little block of cement near concrete that eats its weight everyday in fish,,,,,


I tell you its the commorants aggenda that are declining the steelhead fry....DJ

I leave in a few minutes to go fish a sleactive gear lake. One thought - whenever I fish lakes like Lenice, Nunnaly, Beta, etc. they are always busy. Waaayy more angling preassure on these than on any other lakes I see. Maybe selective gear rules INCREASE angling opportunity.

I will not be here to refute any arguments, so just remember that I am right and all who diaagree with me are wrong.

DJ:

"you guys realy want to help steelhead start shooting Commorants....you know the ocean dwelling bird that is now finding its way inland to sit on that little block of cement near concrete that eats its weight everyday in fish,,,,,"

Got a great little "blind" on the back porch...so it will have to be wrist-rockets at 50 yds. Can of BudDummer, can of Planters and a couple lawn chairs...bring 'em on!

Those cormorants have been thick in the Skagit for a few months now, along with oodles of mergansers (fish eating ducks), and they have been hammering the smolt hiding out around the rocks in the frog water areas down below the house. Run them off, but they come right back as soon as I go in the house.

Off to Portland and Boise for a few days (working, damnit) and will be back Thurs.

P.S. FWIW: I don't flyfish, I don't keep wild steelhead, and much to my disagreement with some of it I do follow all the laws, including that stupid "fish not out of water" release law. (Until they change, that is).

See ya all on Fri.

Mike B

Mike dont live far from the block I was talking about...I have noticed the commorants dont sit there when the eagles are around...but not that they are gone the slaughter of smolt well continue.....DJ

"One thought - whenever I fish lakes like Lenice, Nunnaly, Beta, etc. they are always busy. Waaayy more angling preassure on these than on any other lakes I see."

You can't be serious.. Obviously you have never fished Mineral lake Dave. I've fished Lenice, Nunnaly etc for years which by the way have a one fish limit and while I do agree that angler participation is good. I don't agree with your comparison. Those lakes are small and usually you will only see a handfull of anglers there at one time. Have you ever seen the hundreds of anglers fishing some of the put and take lakes? You want to see angler participation go fish Mineral lake on opening day... I also think comparing this type of fishery to statewide WSR does not have any merit.

Killing Commorants! Now theres something I think we can all get behind.

Cormorants and Sea Lions (aka seals) are in the same boat, me thinks. Federally protected.

Fish eating birds gotta eat too, I guess, and Mom Nature probably takes into account their predation on the runs...but adapting to these nets (salt and fresh) and overfishing (in some spots) seems to be the problem that nature has a tough time taking care of.

Seen a lot of ideas postulated here...some backed by science, some merely opinions and innuendo desired to be taken as fact.

What we do seem to all agree on is that, in some river systems, the steelhead runs have declined and we (as a community) want them to flourish once again. Can't say as I have any answers, but a lot of hope that those with the proper education and higher pay grades can AGREE (it could happen, ya know!) on how best to help these wonderful fish recover to their historical high numbers.

Mike

(Ok, now I am really leaving!)

That's the management plan that has been used up until now. You know, the one that has been a miserable failure? Yeah, that's the one.

Excuse the F out of me for being gone a weekend. I'll email you next time I'm going out of town so you don't worry. These issues have been beaten on for months now and it's always the same $hit. I get a little tired of seeing the same questions and accusations come up, get answered, then get asked again. I swear, you and CFM need to start a bowling team together.

Cupo,

You've got a lot of nerve.

.


Is it, you're just tired of being proven wrong? You and the rest of the guys have been crowing your crap for months now. And it's not looking good for you. Grow some gnads and admit you're wrong. No. You'd rather Attack CFM, who cannot respond to you. Because he was right, and wasnt afraid to say it. He's banned from here, which erks my gerkin bro. He has more to add than you could ever, and we cant hear him. But we have to listen to you? Gimme a break.

It takes one heck of a wennie to attack someone who cant respond. Way to go!

todd, here is a copy of the news release from the state, where does it say you cant harvest wild steelhead ?

NEWS RELEASE
WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091

March 17, 2004
Contact: Craig Bartlett, (360) 902-2259


Wild steelhead retention moratorium
will take effect May 1 statewide

OLYMPIA -The effective date for a recently adopted statewide moratorium on wild steelhead retention will be May 1, consistent with the start of the next fishing season, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) announced today.

The two-year moratorium, adopted by the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission during a Feb. 6 meeting, originally was to take effect April 1. The moratorium - which is scheduled to run for two years - requires anglers to release any steelhead that is not marked as a hatchery fish by a missing adipose or ventral fin and a healed scar.

"On review, the timeline for implementing permanent fishing rules of this complexity made it impossible to have the moratorium in place by April 1," said Larry Peck, WDFW deputy director. "This was an administrative decision by the director's office, which will make the rule change consistent with the beginning of the annual steelhead management cycle."

Shifting the date to May 1 also allows additional time to get word of the moratorium out to steelhead anglers and other stakeholders, Peck said.

Biologists with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife stressed that no significant impact to wild steelhead would result from continuing with current regulations on those rivers currently open to retention of wild steelhead.

Wild steelhead retention already had been permanently banned in much of the state, but has been allowed on several Olympic Peninsula river systems where stocks are relatively strong.

"We are confident that the decision to move the effective date of the moratorium will have no significant impact on the resource, but will provide for better notice to anglers who fish for steelhead in the affected rivers," Peck said.

.
You certainly got that right boater.

Just don't "retain" any wild steelhead...
Constipation can ruin your appetite.

That is WEAK attacking CFM when he cant defend himself here...

One thing CFM didn't do was ask the same old questions. He always found a different angle to attack an idea with. Unfortunately, his arguments this time hit a little too close to home and he was booted. Since that time I have seen a half a dozen or so people get WAY more personal and abusive to others than he did on this topic. I didn't always agree with him, but he was interesting.... and could hold his own in a debate.

I just wanted to point out that that was pointed at DJFISHS2XS not written by me...I like and respected CFM and his sometimes different viewpoint......DJ