The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George

Posted by: John Lee Hookum

The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 01:06 AM

Sad but true. \:\(


The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George
by Mike Whitney


September 1, 2005

The full force of the Bush catastrophe is finally beginning to be felt.
Currently, New Orleans is flooded with tons of chemical contaminants
and hydrocarbons "that will continue to poison the Gulf of Mexico for
more than a decade". (Democracy Now) An official from the
Environmental Protection Agency told the Washington Post, "This is the
worst case.. There's not enough money in the Gross National Product of
the United States to dispose of the amount of hazardous material in
this area."

Could the tragedy have been avoided?
What might have happened if the Bush Administration hadn't ordered the
"steepest reduction in hurricane-and-flood control funding for New
Orleans in history?" (Will Bunch "Why the Levee Broke")
Despite the constant warnings from SELA (Southeast Louisiana Urban
Flood Control Project) Bush elected to under-fund the Lake
Pontchartrain levee project by nearly 80%. Of the $20 million the
project required, the Bush administration only provided a paltry $4
million. Now New Orleans is buried under a 10 ft deep chemical-stew
and corpses are reported to be bobbing atop the storm waters in the
poorer neighborhoods.

Welcome to Bush's America; where the uber-rich can expect lavish tax
cuts and the huddled masses get a 3 day lock-up at the Superdome;
where the government redirects desperately-needed resources to the oil
wars in Mesopatamia and entire regions disappear beneath the
flood-waters at home.
The New Orleans tragedy is America's tragedy; the inevitable victory
of ideology over science; the triumph of greed over reason.
The Bush tax cuts and the skyrocketing costs of the war in Iraq have
brought Falluja to Louisiana; the only difference being that snipers
are not perched on the buildings to shoot the wounded on their way to
the hospital.

As Will Bunch said, "Washington knew exactly what needed to be done to
protect the citizens of New Orleans from disasters like Katrina. Yet
federal funding for Louisiana flood control projects was diverted to
pay for the war in Iraq." The Army Corps of Engineers couldn't
complete their vital work because Bush turned off the spigot while the
levees continued to sink.

The hurricane was not avoidable; the Bush flood certainly was.
Bush also played a major role in savaging the wetlands that protect
the surrounding area from the storm surges that result from hurricanes
like Katrina. As Sidney Blumenthal points out, "Every two miles of
wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half
a foot." Even though he was aware of this, in 2003 Bush allowed
developers to destroy the sensitive wetland areas that buffer the
coast. It was the equivalent of taking the seat-belts, air bags, and
bumpers off a car and then driving the opposite way on the freeway.
The disaster was just the predictable outcome of dreadfully flawed
policies.

Now, the administration will have to deal with the devastation in New
Orleans like they deal with every tragedy of their own making; by
diverting attention from themselves and by mounting a public relations
offensive spearheaded by the performer-in chief.
Expect to see Bush in a National Guard jumpsuit; preening before the
adoring media while he condemns the wretched minorities who are
picking through the debris of downtown New Orleans.

The looting is just another Karl Rove red-herring intended to draw
attention from the criminal negligence of the Bush cabal. The 10 ft
wave that marched through New Orleans; devastating everything in its
path and creating a small army of American refugees, originated in
Washington. Don't forget it.
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 01:43 AM

I'm no G.W fan but can't agree with this at all. The Big Easy has been around a lot longer than G.W and no amount of Levee building was going to prevent this from happening.

Its basic science that when you build a coastal town below sea level in an area known for this type of weather event ****s gonna happen sooner or later. Its happened before, it will happen again. Ca is gonna see a massive earth quake again sometime in the future, Florida will get hammered several more times. G.W is responsible for alot of things but this is not one of them.
Posted by: goharley

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 11:01 AM

It's Clinton's fault; just ask a Republican. ;\)
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 11:23 AM

How about it is a risk that the people that live and built there chose to take. They lost the bet. We all face the same with earthquakes here.
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
Why did they sit around waiting for federal assistance?
This might sound wrong- Sorry I said it but was thinking it last night when they showed all the trouble at the super dome.

From what I have seen of the majority of the people in distress.. they have been sitting around waiting for Federal assistance every day of their lives.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 11:51 AM

I think the images we have seen on TV are of people who are in a desperate situation AND are still suffering from shock!

It doesn't help that only hours before the storm is when local governments said to evacuate the city and nationally our "pres" tells them to flee. I do not think any of the stopped to think what they were asking many of the people we see on TV today. Flee...how? Many of the folks left behind did not have the means to flee.

With evacuation orders should have come a plan to move those sick and infirm as will as the poorer folks. A lot of people wit the socio-economic background we are seeing live check to check more than most. Payday is today, a lot of good that is doing them.
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 12:14 PM

I'd hate to think anyone would accuse me of coming to George Bush's defense, and while recent cuts in federal spending on LA projects may have exacerbated some of the effects, B-run's correct. The New Orleans area has been an accident waiting to happen for decades. The Corps of Engineers maintains rediculously gargantuan projects intending to protect the area from the inevitable. But disaster there was inevitable according to authorities familiar with the hydrology, geology, and geography of the area.

Like Aunty M and Wailuku, I wonder what NO and LA officials were doing ahead of the hurricaine with their state and local resources. There doesn't seem to be any indication that state and local government took any advance action other than issuing the evacuation directive. Unfortunate for the victims, but I suspect this tragedy is going to be "one for the books" after the disaster experts finish their various investigations.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 01:23 PM

The Mormons have a booklet that lists all that you need to do to set aside enough food and supplies to live for one year. They use it in case the provider of the family dies or some other event. I have a copy and have found it very usesful. I can go off the grid tomorrow and be just fine.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 02:25 PM

"but the rich aren't dying. They could get out."


Anyone with a Brain could get out. I hitchhiked ,walked 250 miles slept in feilds ,barns etc lived on candy bars wahtever I could find for the 3 days it took when mount st. Helen's blew in 81. I made less that $3000 a year as a college student and $2500 of it was comitted to tuition and books room and baord etc. Leaving me with $1k in "disposable" income.

It's all about will and desire. Now the disabled and elderly and young are a different story.

You ear mark the funds to a charity and they are required by law to use it for that purpose of refund the money. Not ear marking it and it can go for any purpose.
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 03:54 PM

TK walked 250 miles over 3 days in 1981 (sic; it blew in 1980) when Mt. St. Helens blew. Wow! How did he have any time to sleep in fields and barns, and still walk 250 miles in 3 days? Not only does TK have a brain, he’s super-human as well! Plus he hitch-hiked some unstated additional distance. Man, I gotta’ wonder where he was going to and from. I don’t know of anyone else who had to travel over 250 miles to escape the ravages of the Mt. St. Helens eruption.

You wouldn’t suppose this same level of accuracy applies to all TK’s other posts as well, would you?

With all the sarcasm it deserves,

Salmo g.

P.S: With your Mormon influenced supplies to shore you up, we'll all be over to your house when disaster strikes here. Thanks for letting us know!
Posted by: Rory Bellows

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 04:25 PM

Blame America or George Bush First-- blah blah blah.....

It's the freakin' worst natural diaster we've ever seen in this part of the world.

George Bush didn't wish this on anyone and it didn't happen because he didn't sign some hair-brained Kyoto treaty 5 months ago.

The Hurricane hit and the flood happened the next day--I'm sick of all these people asking why FEMA and the National Guard weren't there when it happened or within hours------Hello Mcfly--if they would have been in the area they would have been killed or rendered helpless just like the people that are in New Orleans are now and what ever machinery and supplies they would have brought with them would have been destroyed too.

It very telling of those who choose to spend more time assigning blame right now rather than just getting down on their knees and praying for these people and those trying to get them to safety.

The massive Hurricane and flood weren't any country or anyones fault.

It's not time to point fingers or try and make political gain---It's time to open up up your hearts and your wallets.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 04:38 PM

As usual Rory you are so far off base it is not even humorous. All you need to do is make a comparison between the relief efforts from prior year hurricanes and make the comparison to this particular one. Simple analysis even your pea brain could handle would demonstrate that the response times in this circumstance have been pathetic and unorganized.

Where was the preparedness prior to the hurricane. Why not mobilize the NG closer to the Gulf Coast rather than waiting for 2 days after the event? Protect your puppet at all costs, we know you don't care how silly you look!
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 04:42 PM

SG,

Hitchhiked was before walking in my post.
Yes it was 1980 I graduated in 81 so I get them confused. I hitched most of the way. Most of the walk was from Ritzville to Pullman.
I avg. 4 miles an hour over broken ground Elk hunting with a full pack according to my GPS at 46 years old. How much you good for ol man? ;\)
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 04:46 PM

Were you with your entire family of 6 half of them being under the age of 6?

Yeah, your analogy works real well. :rolleyes:

If you notice most of the people being shown on TV are families with small children and/or are elderly.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 04:53 PM

"Were you with your entire family of 6 half of them being under the age of 6?"

First off I would never have more kids than I was capable of taking care of specifically if I lived 8 feet below sea level and a cat 5 hurricane was parked out my front door for a week.
If I was I would even be more cautious and would have had them out of there long before the shait hit. It is a parents number 1 responsibility. I have a year or twos worth of provisions here enough vacume packed seeds and othe self sustaining items to last for years. I have taught my kids how to survive just for that very reason. I will not always be here and they need to know what to do.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 05:10 PM

No doubt about that Aunty but there ARE failures at the local, state and federal level.

To pin it on any one of them is wrong it is an example of the it will never happen here mentality. That and having some really poor prioritization of what is really important.

You hit the nail on the head when you said it was a lack of leadership. A complete lack of it at all levels.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Theking:
"Were you with your entire family of 6 half of them being under the age of 6?"

First off I would never have more kids than I was capable of taking care of specifically if I lived 8 feet below sea level and a cat 5 hurricane was parked out my front door for a week.
If I was I would even be more cautious and would have had them out of there long before the shait hit. It is a parents number 1 responsibility. I have a year or twos worth of provisions here enough vacume packed seeds and othe self sustaining items to last for years. I have taught my kids how to survive just for that very reason. I will not always be here and they need to know what to do.
It doesn't matter that you would never have that many kids. what matters is your claim that these people should have gotten out already. My point is there are entire families that were incapable of hitchiking out of New Oreans and your weak attempt to make a comparison to when you went on a hiking trip after St.Helens erupted. It is one thing to responsible for yourself and another to be responsible for an entire family and sometimes extended family.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 05:16 PM

Wacky,


Responsibility for anyones life over the age of 16 starts with the individual. The minute one gives that responsibilty to anyone else is where the right to cry about the out come stops. Anything you get from anyone else in this life is a blessing and a gift not a requirement.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 05:20 PM

You can post all of your nice ideals and pretend that is how you live. It only serves as an excuse for your lack of compassion for those less fortunate.

When are you dropping off the grid again??? No time like the present!
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 05:38 PM

Again, I am in agreement with what you are saying AuntyM. Just telling people to flee is inadequate. Providing the means for those that do not have them would have been a baby step in the right direction.

You almost get the impression the Mayor or Governor was on his way out of town and as an afterthought decided to call the press to have them tell folks to leave. I know I forgot something what was it....oh yeah all the other people in the city!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
[QUOTE]
There is NO LEADERSHIP and no one took charge.
AuntyM for Governor...

(even if you cant spell in latin ;\) )
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 07:15 PM

TK,

Hey, you wrote your post. I just pointed out the improbability, if not impossibility, of your stated action. The comma made your walk a lengthy 250 miles. I won’t bother asking why you’d walk from Ritzville to Pullman, or what the point of your story was in the first place.

How much I’m good for is irrelevant to you posting your super-human feats. But since you’re a fitness buff, and much younger than I, maybe you’d like to join me on the next STP (Seattle to Portland) bike ride; 205 miles in one day, or RAMROD, the ride around Mt. Rainier in one day. It’s only 154 miles, but you might really like the 10,000 feet of climbing. It would put you in good shape for hunting season! Or perhaps, hunting season would have you already fit for the ride.

At 4 mph, I’d think you’d be walking right past where all the elk were before being spooked by you humping a full pack along broken ground at that speed. When I used to hunt, I walked much slower than normal so as to get close to the animals without spooking them away. I think your style would be good for conservation, though.

Your pompous posts remind me of a guy in college who claimed every steelhead he caught was of state record proportions, or larger, and all taken on an upstream dry fly. Far fetched makes for good story telling, but as far out as yours are just don’t cut it as a story, funny or otherwise.

BTW, this thread was about Hurricaine Katrina, not blowhard TK.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
Posted by: Rory Bellows

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 07:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wailuku:

All you need to do is make a comparison between the relief efforts from prior year hurricanes and make the comparison to this particular one.
------------------------------------------------------------

What hurricane (or subsequent flood) from prior years that has hit our shore(s) even comes close to Katrina in magnitude, scope or amount of damage inflicted that would allow you or anyone else to make and apples to apples comparison of relief efforts?
Posted by: Somethingsmellsf

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 09:34 PM

The lack of accountability in this country and during this catastrophe is a disgrace, whether the people left or not, there should have been supplies,medical supplies and food and water ready to go in right after the weather broke.

Living in the richest nation in history and not being able to help our own people is nothing less than treason, for those in charge, and those people should pay the price when this is all said and done....
Posted by: Big Bad Voodoo Daddy

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/02/05 09:53 PM

AuntyM,

You're my hero.

Speaking of which, did you guys hear? Al Quada is taking responsibility for Hurricane Katrina... WOW

Have you guys heard about those cops down there?? They have to put snipers on their roofs because they are OUTGUNNED by the gangs!! What is with these people?? People are DYING, and these "tough guys" would rather shoot cops than be heros and haul the helpless out of there??? I'm disgusted.

Curtis
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/03/05 09:19 AM

Sad to say this, but the Rev Al Sharpton was on the tube last night and its pretty clear that the people who elected the city officials of N.O were totally let down by those same officials, You get some guys who are totally incompetent in the first place running a city of that size, something happens and the lack of leadership is on display for everyone to see.

Its a sad deal when you would like to think that the looting etc would have something to do with food, maybe water or medical supplys, when its actually big screen T.V's, Jewlery stores to get some bling bling and then beat up some old ladys and ***** about the goverment not doing anything.

I was wondering when Jessie J and Rev Al would be on the air claiming that this whole mess was racism.
Posted by: Somethingsmellsf

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/03/05 10:10 AM

AM, is right about the racism, but what about the leadership at the Federal level? Where was that?
Posted by: Rory Bellows

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/03/05 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by
Somethingsmellsfishy:

AM, is right about the racism, but what about the leadership at the Federal level? Where was that?
------------------------------------------------------------

Mandatory evacuation ordered for New Orleans

8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT
The Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

"There doesn't seem to be any relief in sight," Blanco said.

She said Interstate 10, which was converted Saturday so that all lanes headed one-way out of town, was total gridlock.

"We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared," Nagin said.

The storm surge most likely could topple the city's levee system, which protect it from surrounding waters of Lake Pontchartrain, the Mississippi River and marshes, the mayor said. The bowl-shaped city must pump water out during normal times, and the hurricane threatened pump power.

Previous hurricanes evacuations in New Orleans were always voluntary, because so many people don't have the means of getting out. Some are too poor and there is always a French Quarter full of tourists who get caught.

"This is a once in a lifetime event," the mayor said. "The city of New Orleans has never seen a hurricane of this magnitude hit it directly," the mayor said.

He told those who had to move to the Superdome to come with enough food for several days and with blankets. He said it will be a very uncomfortable place and encouraged everybody who could to get out.

Nagin said police and firefighters would spread out throughout the city sounding sirens and using bullhorns to tell residents to get out. He also said police would have the authority to comandeer any vehicle or building that could be used for evacuation or shelter.

The Superdome was already taking in people with special problems. It opened about 8 a.m. and people on walkers, some with oxygen tanks, began checking in.

In a neighborhood in central city, a group of residents sat on a porch. It was almost a party atmosphere.

"We're not evacuating," said Julie Paul, 57. "None of us have any place to go. We're counting on the Superdome. That's our lifesaver."

She said they'd spent the last couple of hurricanes there. They would wait for a friend who has a van to take them, because none has cars.

At a nearby gas station, Linda Young, 37, was tanking up her car.

"I'm really scared. I've been through hurricanes, but this one scares me. I think everybody needs to get out," she said.

She said they planned to leave Saturday but couldn't get gas, and didn't want to go without it, so got up early and got in a gas line.

In the suburbs, evacuations were under way.

"That sun is shining too bright for this to be happening," said Joyce Tillis, manager of the Holiday Inn Select at the airport in the suburbs as she called the more than 140 guests to tell them the hotel was under a mandatory evacuation. "It's too nice a day."

Tillis lives inside the flood zone in the community of Avondale. She said she called her three daughters and told them to get out. "If I'm stuck, I'm stuck," Tillis said. "I'd rather save my second generation if I can."
Posted by: lupo

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/03/05 05:22 PM

sure would have been nice if the prez had 6 months notice that this hurricane was going to hit like they did with 911.... so they could be all prepared with thier responses and all like before
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/03/05 09:27 PM

Its sort of a bum deal that 90 % of all the major insurance claims come from the southeast and CA and the rates all across the county are the same.

Still, I hate all this crap on T.V about how nobodys helping out. In most parts of the country if people get handed lemons they make Lemonade. In N.O, they ***** about how warm the lemonade is then go on a rampage and loot all the bling bling they can get their hands on and finish up by beating up all the old ladys and raping the young ones. Afterwards Jessie and Al start blowing poop about how its all the goverments fault.

None of the things that are happening in that city are the goverments fault. Its a real low class eliment of people who live in that city that are really giving it a black eye. It has always been a low brow place and it really shows. Example. The Tsunami in Asia was every bit as overwhelming and the people bucked up, helped each other and made the most of the resources they did have. No shooting at the cops and rampaging, Those people had zero warning. N.O had a couple of days.. and did nothing, but point a finder at something that would not have helped anyway.. Levees can not stop a class 5 hurricane storm surge.
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/03/05 10:56 PM

Its a real low class eliment of people who live in that city that are really giving it a black eye. It has always been a low brow place and it really shows
------------------------------------------------------------

Any where in America where black people live, there will be some that consider their presence (blacks) a black eye to that community. 60% black qualifies as a low brow place. :rolleyes: The media constantly drives that point home each and every day. Institutional racisim disables many from understanding miles others walk in shoes cast in the cement of slavery, racism and injustice.

Maybe, instead of rescuing them, some of you are only a couple of decades removed from leading the lynch mobs that would hang rather than help them. Guess token help is more sexy if the blacks are in another country, but not as sexy if American and black. It's the Sambo teachings that many were tought in public school that's the problem. Many still think that way.

Now some of you go ahead and chime in about how wonderful the oportunity is to be a white Amercan and those nigus are just lazy, drunks etc.,....and can be just like you (white and red necked or good ole boy) if they choose to.

Sad but Bush is smart in his delayed response because a lot of his support are from people that don't care how many of those nigus die. They have been trained and tought that they are superior to the black race, and after all, God is Christian and white. Colonialisim alive and well here in America.

These actions could pick up votes from the hateful and racist, that are the kill em all and let God sort em out types, when it comes to people of color.
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/04/05 02:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
I don't give a damn what color you are. If all you expect are handouts all your life, your life isn't worth much.

I would help a black person who is trying to better themselves over a lazy white person who wants handouts any day.

They are what they strive to be. Successful or at least hardworking and contributing to society, or a lazy leech never trying to do anything but take. I think there are far too many blacks that prove the sterotypes don't apply to them.

I am an equal opportunity critic.

As for as lazy and taking handouts, I think that also applies to those that gouge at the pump or with prices during a crisis. Why not discuss that to?

Guess Bush would fit your stereotype if you measure people as being hardworking or lazy. He has taken handouts all his life and some people think (media propaganda) God talks to him and he was God's very own crack baby. \:D

I consider him and many others like him as lazy and are also leeches on the middle class and society. That's the way they play the game, divide and conquer. Us against them, black against white, poor white against poor black, and on and on. One difference, he's white and entitled, therefore he gets a free pass. First rule of a colonial mind set. Now where are those Indians? Must be a few Indians caught on tape in NO stealing TV"s. \:D When those clip's (Indians carrying TV's) are televised, that's when you are sure to fine PP's finist, circleing the wagons and packing powder in their pea shooters. \:D
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/04/05 09:07 AM

Sorry man. Your straying way off topic.

It has nothing to do with what anyone thinks. It has everything to do with what has happened. A.M is right. Too much opertunity for everyone in this country to single out any group or race on any issue.

In this particular case, a very large group of a very large community chose to do nothing except beat the hell outa each other, and steal everything they could get their hands on. It was not a few isolated thugs, it was the community at large.

You can use all the big words you want to suger coat it but it was and is really quite disgusting. The goverment did not do this. The people that remained in N.O did it and the world gets to watch.

The last time anything like this happened it was in L.A Something bad happens so lets burn down the town, beat everyone in sight, steal everything we can get our hands on, then blame the goverment and the MAN for everything. Oh, I almost forgot, lets do it to the people we love the most like the people next door etc.

The south gets hammered all the time with weather events that are pretty devastating. Seems like it happens 3 times a year in Florida and they pitch in and help each other out. No national guard needed. Same mix of people just a lot more caring community. They organize and prioritize. This is not the first big hurricane to come along. Its just the first where half the people decided to not heed any warnings and just sit there and not help anyone, not even themselves.
Posted by: Chives

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/04/05 01:08 PM

I was living in NYC during 9/11. The national guard was on the streets in less than twenty four hours...not five days later.

The mayor of NOLA may well be completely incompetent. That does not absolve the federal government from their responsibilites.
The governor of Louisiana, the speaker of the house, and the president have all ackowledged for once, to their great credit, that this has been an operational failure (all republicans btw).

several of you rubes like to voice your admiration for "strength""preparedness" and being ready to fight the war on terror effectively and so on,
yet instead of voicing concern over the obvious lack of preparedness and initiative, you will voice your disgust over "animals" stealing tennis shoes. shouldnt you all be more concerned about protecting america at home as you have claimed these past for years? what was the money and fancy offical positions for homeland security for? where is the leadership, the initiative? taking 5 days to get the national guard in there should tell you all something...but you see what you want to. Feel safe? Thats why you elected him right?
Confident that should a dsisaster hit us here we would get timely aid and support from the feds? Maybe Bellevue would be evacuated first...then 7 days later they'd pick up any survivors left in the CD?

keep your lips firmly planted on the buttcheeks of the disaster that is this administration. reap what you sow.
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/04/05 01:53 PM

Quote:
We never learn
True. We build major cities on top of fault lines, too. We line the coasts with development, and act surprised when something like this happens.

Which just makes the response to this disaster that much more dismal. Top to bottom. It starts with the officials at the local level, and goes right to GW's desk. We had relief in Indonesia is 2 days. It took twice that long to get it to NO.

How anyone can defend any of these clown is beyond me. From the mayor of NO, to the FEMA director, to the White House...........they've all demonstrated utter incompetence in dealing with this disaster.

And now watch.........instead of learning anything, they'll all spend the next 6 months assigning blame and dodging responsibility.

And you know those insurance companies everyone's been paying premiums to for decades................watch them lobby Congress for a bailout. And then watch them get it.
Posted by: fishonjohn

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/05/05 06:11 PM

I've been following this thread for a couple of days now and the more I read the more I find it disturbing. We've all received emails and such with things like "the gene pool needs a little chlorine", etc, that's what I'm hearing here, along with "those people that didn't leave deserve exactly what they are getting for being so stupid". These things all sound funny and make us laugh but this is real life, and DEATH, Well no one, I repeat, no one deserves to die because they are stupid and we all have a moral obligation to help if we can when we see some one in straits as dire as this. As a retired Police Officer I have probably seen more stupidity on peoples part that most of you put together, I've also developed a certain calusness towards others suffering out of self protection but this situation certainly trancends all that, these people are fighting for their lives and need all the help they can get, the government, on every level, has let them down and now I'm seeing individuals on this board do the same with their comment, I think it's appaling. Some of these people have certainly placed themselves in this situation voluntarily, stupidly, but again, people do not deserve to die because they are stupid, not in any country and especially in this one.
Posted by: Somethingsmellsf

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/05/05 08:35 PM

RB, been away for the weekend and have to respond, albeit a little late. While I will not go into the diatrbe that you escribe to, not will I go and search news records to copy and paste a news story to back up my side of the argument, I will say this, most of those people had no money,transport, or the means to get out and were waiting for the money to get out. The fed could have paid them early and avoided this altogether, at the very least the feds could have been prepared to go in after the weather broke.

Tis easy to sit here and say that you would have done this or that, I doubt that you would take any direction from any one, except your own twisted point of view, and as always "hindsight is 20/20"...................
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 11:36 AM

SG,

I hate bike riders more than I hate liberals. Bike riders are pussies of the highest order. had one in front of me this weekend. 6 feet of shoulder and this douche bag thinks he needs to be in the center of the lane. Maybe all of you could get togetehr and between the whole group you could read and understand the rules of the road. I think its the lycra shorts being too tight myself it restricts blood to your brains . The walk from Ritzville was needed because the ash was 10" deep or more. A car could go a few miles before the engine siezed. When you opened the hood it looked like someone had poured concrete in the engine comartment and oinshed it off. I would get a ride freom a farmer every now and then on the big tractors they use in the wheat feilds. they are designed to deal with heavy dust and did very well. I did not challenge you to any fitness test because I am told there is little glory in defeating oldmen ,women and children in athletic endeavors. I think you hunt slow because thats all you could do so it was not a choice. Elk are stupid noisy animals only rookies and rifle hunters hunt them slow.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 11:39 AM

Typical of the liberals. They want to give all the responsibility to the govt. so they can have some one to blame. Anyone that blames the govt or make it an issue of race I have written off as a lost cause.
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 02:31 PM

TK,

Gotta' love being hated by the likes of you.

Not only is there no glory in defeating old men, women, and children, there's no glory for you because you don't and can't really do most of the sh!t you claim in this forum anyway (walk 250 miles in 3 days). Except one, you said you participate here to try to p!ss people off, and from reading various responses to your posts, it's clear that this is at least one success in your life. And you're probably proud of it, since success is otherwise a likely alien to your existence, or you wouldn't be attracted to the objective of trying to p!ss people off in an internet BB.

I think you're pathetic, but I know better than to care about that. I almost appreciate the perverse entertainment value you represent.

BTW, a bike is a vehicle subject to the same privileges and responsibilities as a motor vehicle. If a cyclist was taking the lane in front of you, that's his/her right. A cyclist must keep only as far to the right as is practicable. The shoulder may have been littered with broken glass, tossed there by cheap beer swilling rednecks such as yourself, rendering it unsafe for travel. Your responsibility is to safely pass if you want to go faster.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 02:36 PM

SG,
It is not my foult you hang with lesser folks. Maybe if your world view changed you could meet more people that can do .
On the bikes read up on the RCW then we can talk. ;\)
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 02:46 PM

TK,

I don't hang with lesser folks unless you call responding to your posts "hanging."

Maybe if you'd read up for a change, we could talk. I'm familiar with the RCW.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 04:20 PM

SG,

"If a cyclist was taking the lane in front of you, that's his/her right. A cyclist must keep only as far to the right as is practicable."

You negated your fist definition with this definition. Just like a motor vehicle they then have to yeild the right of way if they cannot keep to the posted speed limit and delay 5 or more vehicles. They cannot cut off a vehicle by swerving on and off the shoulder to avoid debris etc.
Posted by: Rory Bellows

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Somethingsmellsfishy:

I will say this, most of those people had no money,transport, or the means to get out and were waiting for the money to get out.

-----------------------------------------------------------
'No transport or means to get out?'

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp




Blame Amid the Tragedy

By BOB WILLIAMS
September 6, 2005; Page A28

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible -- local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.

The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected -- and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

Mr. Williams is president of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a free market public policy research organization in Olympia, Wash.


Posted by: sardonicus

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/06/05 11:38 PM

What a shame so many had to die and so many have lost their worldly possessions. Didn't have to happen. When it became obvious that neither the Governor of Louisiana nor the Mayor of New Orleans had a clue in the managment of anything greater than their personal fortunes, the whole state should have been annexed by The District of Columbia. The aid organizations would have then been on the scene before the scene occured. LoL
What a crock. Somebody has to take the blame for a class 4+ hurricane that comes ashore in the midst of the vacation coast on the Caribbean. Hind sight is always 20/20 just ask the blind.
Talk about Greenhouse gas.
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/07/05 03:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
I see you've cut and run from this thread JOHN LEE HOOKUM, while you continued your personal attacks against me in two other threads with assumptions and lies.

Rory's last post is pretty damn hard to dispute, isn't it?

You and Rory have fun with this one, cause I don't think there's a chance that I can get you to take a look at yourself and do a personal inventory to seek self improvement (removing defects) and conciliation. Must be tough, having to be the purfect Dorothy, in a fantasy called OZ, here in fish land.

Now go a head, and use your Tin man, your Strawman and Cowardly lion to push home your point, and of course as always, assisted by those magic slippers of yours. \:D
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/07/05 09:22 PM

Wow Aunty I have never seen you sink so low. Kinda sad.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/07/05 11:09 PM

Sorry Aunty should have elaborated. I have no doubt your disdain for Bush remains constant. I just hate to see you resort to spewing insults as much as you have in these threads.

You manage a nicer decorum with Sparkly Helmet and Rory and they have provided much more vile opposition then JLH!

In other words this ****flinging battle is really not worth it! There are bigger battles we need fought!
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 01:00 AM

Now that's true Wailuku. We need to find a surgeon that can get that anal tik of yours repaired. geeez I bet you get a stiff neck.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 01:42 AM

I think Rory made a post recently about folks like you with anal fixations. Err, wait maybe that was liberals... oh well I suppose it was just another one of his cut-n-pastes.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 09:33 AM

Well Aunty I guess you are missing my point. The point being is you are/should be better than that! Sorry for having that impression of you.
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
It looked to me like JLH spewed about twice as many insults as I did. I guess that was OK by you Wailuku? I WAS trying to inform him of things he hadn't considered.
:rolleyes:

With your closed mind, I'm not sure your information is adequate to inform in this area. Because of your unwillingness to consider that others may have more experience or more learning in this area, this will keep you polirized and insensitive to others, such as "these people" that you consider failures down in NO. Information that may be painful at times to hear but still real, and can be gifted to you, by those that have seen and experienced first hand, and not as poluted as you are (because of environmental, limited resources, choices, etc.s), thereby preventing you from a genuine and honest understanding because of your limited experiences and prejudices.

You seem to want to represent yourself as an authority that speaks for America, when it comes to the matters involving the poor or people of colors. Maybe it's the Dorothy complex, on a board that's predominantly men? Thinking we all are made of Straw, Tin, or that we are Cowards and can't represent ourselves and that you can only do that for us. Thanks, but I still like to contribute my .02.

When you find that your leaning might be racist, you then justify it by sighting polls and recent elections results, where here in America racist sometimes do have the upper hand in politics. Why? Because politician are good at manipulating and controling these sick people with fear, anger and prejudice. :rolleyes:

Your superiority complex is really obvious in your latest post. You cast the middle class here in America as exclusive instead of inclusive, with your attitude that myself, and many others posting here, are not also a part of that middle class, or even in a higher tax bracket than you, and that we can think differently about how our tax money is spent. Not sure that you are in the same tax bracket as Bill Gates, as you seem to want us to believe here, but I'll give you benefit of the doubt, and that's your business not mine.

The tax money we spend in Iraq on lies, is much worst than spending my tax money on the truths, that clearly show American's, (NO) are suffering in our homeland, and they need attention first and foremost, not insults. \:\)

Click! Click! Dorothy I think it's time to leave OZ. We all have to play our part to help the real Wizard (America), to be strong. We do this by helping our fellow Ameican's, no matter how poor, or the color of their skin, during these difficult times.

I'm willing to move on if you are. I have no reason to insult you unless you choose to continue to insult me and suggest that my ass needs kicking because of my beliefs. I will not be bullied, period!

Hope this is the last response to a direct post by you, that you cast in my direction regarding this thread
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:


JLH is truly a simpleton.
:rolleyes:
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
[QUOTE]

]Boo hoo hoo. Don't dish it out if you can't handle the debate without resorting to insults when you are proven wrong.
Yah, right! :rolleyes:
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 01:47 PM

Again AuntyM my point has sailed right over your head another time.

I am not disappointed in what you are saying but how you are saying. I have probably not made that clear enough, I think the argument you and JLH are having is stupid. Yes, JLH is using school yard tactics in his argument but you are responding with the same idiotic tactic? That is what is the most disappointing. Who started it? He did, no she did, no he did, no she did... get over it!
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 02:27 PM

It is easy to overestimate someone's ability to act like an adult on Bulletin Boards, I'll keep that in mind in the future.
Posted by: John Lee Hookum

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/08/05 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:

I would love (ha!) to stick around and participate in the rest of the playground games JLH starts, but I'm going fishing.

Posted by: sardonicus

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/09/05 12:00 AM

Aunty M I don't understand how you can carry on a dialogue with someone that has their head up their a....in a dark place at least half the time.
Posted by: Theking

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/09/05 12:40 PM

School starts here in the Next few weeks and JLH will disapear until the next break or vaction. I think he is a collge kid that comes home in the summer and psots from his daddies home on Mercer Island. He grew up rich and is a treust fund baby that has bnever worked a day in his life. He shows contempt and disdain for the way he was raised but still pockets the cash from daddy and the grandparents.
Posted by: Wailuku

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/12/05 02:04 PM

I would take the time to explain the difference but I can see that it would be a fruitless effort much like trying to explain my previous point. I will just leave it as is, you can claim another BB victory and go on to claim I am tucking tail and running. Maybe you can dedicate a full post to explaining why my ass needs tanning, or why you are the toughest chick on the school playground, or better yet just keep doing what you normally do... Must be rewarding to "win" so much! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Posted by: sardonicus

Re: The Devastating Impact of Hurricane George - 09/12/05 02:23 PM

No one would accuse you of tucking tail Wailuku. You would have no place to put it. Your head is in the way.