personal defense rounds?

i picked up a glock 23 40.cal today and im just curious what the best deffense round is...

the gun wont be packed around much as a personal deffense gun. i got it more for a sidearm when in the mountains or fishing in the upper reaches of local rivers.

but im still curious what most of you guys use as your personal deffense round, against people OR animals when hiking...

thanks alot.

I just use the growler........................ME



just joking

lmfao

My favorite is the Speer Gold Dot 180 grain bullets. They were issued to me when I played Starsky & Hutch. Accurate, HUGE hollowpoint cavity, and those neat cutting points like the old Winchester Black Talons. They also come in 155 grain.

Any defense rounds from a major manufacturer will be decent. Remington, Federal, Winchester, Speer, CorBon, etc. Modern self defense ammo is pretty good.

my buddie has 7 cases of black talons for 40.cal and 7 cases for 9mm. and he wont let me have OR buy any.

those are some awesome rounds.

i got some speer gold dots in 180gr i think...they shoot good and accurate out of my gun.

I always liked the Glazer Safety Slugs.

If you're gonna double-tap someone in the chest, might as well do it with a pair of Glazers.

Actually, if you're gonna double-tape someone in the chest, do it right and stick with the good ol' .45ACP.

No one gets up after 2 rounds of .45ACP in the chest.

hehe yeah i wanted a 45.acp but i got a great deal on a very very clean glock 40. so i had to take it. lol

ill get a kimber ultra carry 45acp in due time.

The Ranger SXT is supposed to be very similar to the Black Talon. How much "better" the Black Talons were depends on who you listen to. I still think the difference between most quality JHP rounds is minimal. Bullet weight for your caliber might be more important than the fancy name for the bullet design.

RBCD Performance Plus ammo is hard to beat when it comes to soft targets. Google them. They are also being adopted for special military applications under the Le Mas name. Very incredible performance is all I can say from the testing I have done.

Ranger = Black Talon. Good ammo made more sensational by the media.

thanks guys.

well i got some good researching to do.

I'm looking at picking up a pair of Kimber's in .45ACP.

Kimber's ROCK!

arent we all...arent we all

that kimber SIS is one sweet gun....well they all are actually. i really want a kimber ultra carry.

If looking for Kimbers make sure to have then throated and polished if you plan on shooting hollowpoints reliably.

A target weapon and a self defense weapon are not always the same animal.

thats why when givin the chance on either a glock or a kimber...i went with glock.

not to mention. who really wants to get all that holster wear on a shiny new kimber.

If your looking for a carry gun, go with the Glock in either 40 S&W, 10mm or 45ACP.

They function the first time....every time.

Not that I know much about guns...they kinda scare me!!

HK USP compact for me in .40 S&W. Small, double/single action, 12+1. Added a Hogue hand-all. Eats any ammo I throw at it, all weights and bullet profiles out of the box.

Does your buddy think he is going to have to protect himself that much?

This is an interesting thread. I know nothing about bullets.

RvW...... Are you making fun of me??

Only if you're scared of guns.

I just know so little about them. LOL

Maybe Blades would teach me..

LOL. You have owned most of the firearms produced...and if not it is probably on the list.

I don't think Blades could teach you anything you would want to be taught.

Just having fun here.

Hope you and the family had a good Christmas.

Back on topic....

RvW has got it right, RBCD Performance Plus.

We had a great Christmas. I hope Jordan had santa bring him a 23' fat bottom. (wink)

Happy New Year Big Daddy to you and your great bunch. I hope the New Year brings you all health and prosperity.

no he got a good deal on 20 cases for each caliber, and you would never guess where and how much. you guys wouldnt believe me even if you were there with us when he baught them lol...

he just uses them for target shooting...cause he is badass like that. lol and a moron.

I've fired the 23 and the 22, both were fun, but no Glocks for this household. I prefer a real safety. Calling a trigger a safety seems retarded. I want to be sure that if the lady is threatened and the adrenalin is flowing, she doesn't squeeze a round off into her own leg or gut trying to pull and draw on some ahole. I want every part of the process to be deliberate.

The money is set aside, now the decision is whether to pick up one Kimber Pro CDP II for about a 1K, or pick up two Pro Carry's for a few hundred more than the cost of the one CDP. And time to look for a holster that'll fit and be functional when we're wearing waders.

Off topic...Can there be anything more American than a liberal packing a gun? God Bless our Founding Fathers.

they have a slide lock that replaces that shitty "trigger" lock on the glocks. i ordered one the other day.

its the same thing thats on it. but it has a little push slide that slides into place on the trigger. its very nice.

glocks are a very safe gun...

personaly though as nice and a glock is. and they are rather cheap with tones of mods.

i would much rather have a springfield xd. those are some damn fine guns and at just over $400 they are a great deal.

but i know you said you wanted a couple kimbers. and i dont blame you. i love kimbers. if i had the cash i would jump all over one or two. the ultra carries are so nice. and at only 25oz's they are light.

btw glocks have 3 safeties...but they all disengage with the trigger safety. which imp is very very retarded...but the one thing i really do like about them is there is not hammer to get snagged on anything. so for that gun to go off you need to pull the trigger...and i have messed with mine alot and you need to have the trigger safetly fully pulled plush with the trigger or the gun will not fire.

but like i said also they are retarded and im with you on that one. i dont like it much either. lol

if you got the money spring for 2 ultra carry's. thats what i would do...they are awesome guns. and a true pleasure to shoot.

Thanks for the info deerslayer. I'll keep it in mind. How much did the Ultra Carry's run you?

oh no i dont have one YET...i said if i had the money i would get one...well i will get one or two in the near future.

the cheapest i have seen them anywhere has been around $830...my buddie has 11 kimbers and he says and i quote"if you can kind come for under $1000 you better jump on it cause thats one hell of a deal" and thats the 1911 style.

tahts [censored] though cause ultra carries are under $900 at most places, and cdp's i have also seen for rigth arond $900 aswell.

sportsmans whare house is abut $50-100 cheaper then anywhere i have found so far with their prices on handguns. dont overlook them.

I call your Kimber and raise you one Colt 70 series Combat Commander L/W
Which is 30+ years old I might add.

BTW, I like the Kimbers as well. Nice pistols. Kimber has taken features that in the past would cost you a fortune to have added to your Government Model pistol and put them all in a quality production gun that everyone can enjoy.

Way back when, I bought a "plain jane" 1911 colt and had it customized to the tune of $2,000 . New Wilson match barrel, full length guide rod, match trigger, sear, hammer, extended thumb safety, high ride grip safety, lowered/flared ejection port...etc...etc.

Granted, all those parts were hand fitted and installed by an old gunsmith with decades of experience. In a Kimber you can have those same features for the price of a factory pistol.

Or how about a L/W Compact Springfield Armory 1911 that's been tuned up:

An alloy frame Compact .45 Hot Rod. I don't what would scare the intruder the most. The noise, the fireball, or the incoming 230 grain balls of lead.

The very short barrels on these pistols has the unwanted drawback of increased muzzle lift and increased muzzle flash. It's a slight increase over the 5" barreled 1911's, but an increase nonetheless.

I can put more rounds downrange faster and more accurately with a longer barrel 45 than I can the compacts. But you cant beat their size for discreet carry.

The Kimber will be for carry, not for home use. For home use there is a 12 gauge Mossberg 500 sitting by the bed. The rule of the house is to reach for that first in case of a break in. With consideration of safety as primary, I think I should also be spending some money to put a real hardcore door on the bedroom and make that the safe room. Better for her to barricade herself behind a door with a shotgun, than go try and clear the house out on her own.

Of course being a guy, if I'm at home I'm going to go and greet my uninvited guests.

We think alike on the home defense. Nothing beats a 12 gauge pump for intimidation factor. Just something about that unmistakable sound of the action racking on a 12 gauge. It is a universal sound that knows no language barriers.

those are some good looking colts.

i seen quite a few really nice ones for around $600 at bullseye in tacoma. vhawk you may want to check them out to save a little if you are planning on purchasing to guns. they were used but you couldnt tell at all.

For Carry Ive used a 9mm, a Ruger 45LC and most recently a S&W Airweight .38 sp

For the 9mm it was brass 124 gr +P HP's, the 45LC had 300gr Bear Loads, and the .38 has +P HP's as well.

Now for HOME protection, nothing beats a Kalishnikov AK-47 with Radium nightsights, which when cocked makes and even louder ratchet than my Remington 870 Express Magnum. But if I'm feeling old-fashioned, there's always my Bayoneted 6.5mm Husqvarna Mauser, which, weighing it at about 15 lbs, makes a good hand-to-hand melee weapon as well as being a flat shooter.

I wouldn't even bother with the crappy little .22 plinkers.

i dont worry about home protection...if anyone was bumb enough to break in my house they would die no matter what i use as protection. im such a light sleeper you couldnt jiggle our door handle with out me waking up.

which actually really sucks cause im up at all hours of the night thanks to the cats playing. but then again it is ok i guess cause i hear alot of [censored] and always look out the window to see whats causing the noise. so the neighbors like me lol. and i will defend their property just like i would my own.

Man this post is fun! Glocks not safe? True they are not safe in the hand of infants. Most major police departments in the United States carry them.
The Glock is a pistolmans pistol, as with any firearm respect and caution should be exercised when carried or used. 1911 pistols are also dangerous, revolvers are dangerous as well. It is in the hands of the holder.....I spent 12 years in the criminal justice system, have owned a hunting fishing store and am an avid shooter. I love the Glock, and a few others. The positive thing I have to say for them is they are easy to clean and maintain, reliable, and light weight. Just a darn fine pistol. Best defense round is the RBCD bar none! Only exception is the stuff issued to the military and police by RBCD. Case in point we fired a 380 RBCD round through the seattle yellow pages at 7ft. The round went completely through and shredded the back of the book. We then took a 38 special with Winchester silvertip and fired it next to the 380 hole. The round only went 1/2 way through and stopped. The 380 RBCD was like a 44 or 45 in performance.
So, if you are going to carry any firearm get one stop shopping/stopping with RBCD. I have them for every gun I own, including my Glocks.
Hope this helps!

Fishjager hit the nail on the head.

In the hands of a person who is competent with firearms, the Glock is one of the safest handguns on the market.

On the other hand,the best handgun safety systems in the world can't stop the untrained or incompetent from hurting themselves or others. For them the safest choice is a baseball bat.

The bottom line for a personal defense weapon, carried or homebound, is to be comfortable and proficient with the gun that you chose.

There is also the difference in function. All of the 1911 pistols (less the next generation 1911's) are single action only pistols, Kimbers included. They take a different operational approach than your typical double action auto pistol. A 1911 must be cocked prior to firing the first round. But with a double action auto you can pick it up and fire the weapon as soon as you release the safety. It does not need to be cocked prior to firing.

The 1911 generation of pistols are also some of my favorites.

As I am sure Rafterman will attest to, they should only be carried, especially cocked and locked, by people with advanced knowledge and practice with such weapons.

I have a V10 Springfield that has seen many days being tucked high and tight under the shirt.

When you own a 1911 you will sooner or later (against all sound advice) have to make the pistol safe & lower the hammer on a chambered round.

Nearly anyone who knows 1911 pistols will tell you that it should never, ever be done. I echo that sentiment. But I end up doing it anyway as a matter of convenience.

Obviously when I make my pistols safe in this manner it is pointing in a safe direction.

But that's the difference between a Glock and a 1911. In well trained hands the 1911 is just as safe as a Glock, but operating a Glock involves far fewer steps than a 1911. Less chances to make a mistake. Not better or worse....just different.

Well stated and I 100% agree with you.

Very well said RM, BD and FJ. The 1911 is a great pistol hence it's almost 100yr history BUT it is not the safest design on todays market. (accuracy yes but safety no).

The Glock, like the revolver (which is regarded as a generally safe firearm) has no external safety. The 5.5 lb trigger pull is in essence the safety. But like ALL firearms safety is of paramount importance regardless of the weapon chosen.

A 1911 style would not be my first choice in a novices hands. The light single action trigger on the 1911 lends itself to AD's in the wrong hands (nervous or scared) while the glock needs a more deliberate trigger pull.

I have seen 2 NEW Springfield 1911's go automatic on people because of a sear problem and 1 1911 had the hammer fall on my Bro in law after jacking a round which resulted in an AD with no injury.

CASPIAN DAMASCUS STEEL SLIDE - Just for fun....

well the main thing about the glock is the trigger safety...that is the reason people dont like or think they are not that same.

i thought that as well before i actually got one.

but after playing with the safety to see how it reacts. you actually do have to have that safety pulled flush with the trigger for it to disengage the safety.

and they make a slide lock for the trigger safety that is cheap and really easy to install.

not to mention the glock is like the honda civic of handguns. you can do everything to them lol

RafterMan----That's a purdy piece.

Rafterman,

Thats some sweet looking steel. Very easy on the eye.


Fishjager,


What I think is funny is that the response to the claim that the Glock is just as safe as any other handgun is always But all the police departments use them. How does that prove them safer for carry by someone who won't be shooting them on the range as often as a fulltime LEO?

Accidents happen, and having a safety that is located OFF the trigger just seems to lessen the chance. I've personally seen one AD not happen because of a safety, that would have occurred on a Glock.

Unfortunately I couldn't find any hard numbers on accidental discharges to help settle this. I think those numbers might help settle this.

I might be a bit biased because I get to see the results of cockiness+over familiarity+dangerous tool (gun, nailgun, car, knife, etc etc). My favorite accidents are the framers who remove the safety from their nail guns and then after 8+ years of getting away without an incident...nail their kneecap to their tibia with a 16 penny.

VHawk

When my wife was shopping for a pistol she wanted something that she could learn to operate with proficiency. She has plenty of experience at pulling the trigger on my 1911 45's at targets on a pistol range, but for protection there are too many things to go wrong with a single action pistol such as the 1911 in inexperienced hands.

Any maker can fit the bill but what she decided on was a Sig Sauer P-239 in .40 caliber because:
1. It is Double Action / Single Action
2. It has a manual safety
3. It has a decocker to make the pistol safe without the fear of an AD.
4. It fits her hand like a glove and she can easily shoot it with one hand or two
5. It has Trijicon Night Sights
6. It is bad-ass for a chick pistol

VHawk, I was leaning towards the fact that all hand guns/long guns are dangerous. For the LEO statement, we all know that the Glocks are light, and durable. They also function very well. But I believe the biggest reason besides cheaper prices from the manufacturer, is the idea the more cops that carry glocks the more spare magazines out there if a shoot out happens and multipule departments respond to the incident. (They can refuel each other easier.)
I do appreciate what you said about accidental discharges, and love the example of the farmer with the nail gun. Point well taken and I agree.
Rafterman--Very nice piece!
This show and tell wants me to post a picture of my giggle-gun. You have to giggle when you pick it up. Smith&Wesson 460S&W 3.5 barrel with comp. Performance center gun. Rowvrswade laughs when I call it the Giggle gun. Oh well!!! It barks and stings but it gets the message through.

that would be very nice to have. the 460. is an awesome round.

on the subject of safe handeling of hand Guns is this how it's supposed to be done?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqOeDW5wu_E&NR=1

Fishjager,

I think we can all agree on one thing....rafterman has a nice collection. I had no idea, even though we've fished together. Thanks for a good discussion. I don't think our viewpoints were that far off.

VHawk

Rafterman, the custom work on that last gun you posted is just sick.



My sister works in an ER. I've heard stories about nail guns. One of those stories may or may not have involved a guy with a nail through his johnson.

I found my next rifle.

http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2007/1...s-cute-and.aspx

That might even meet the minimum qualifications to be used during the next SRC.

I carry Speer 230 gr. Gold Dot's in my .45 acp, & Winchester 145 gr. Silvertips in the .357 mag.....No complaint's yet.

c/22

If your looking for a shotgun for home defense here is a good one. It comes with a 20 or 32 round drum

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/guns/recoille...p?autoplay=true

Hell, you better get yourself cheap trustable shooting rounds. That way you pop a cap and not worry about being traced back to the rounds by purchase records. But Federal makes a pretty good round, I cant remember what they were for the life of me. Shot a ton of them out my buddies XD40. Never had any issues. But then again I am a bowhunter and dont carry a sidearm nor am I allowed to. So take that for what it is worth.

So you can't carry a side arm in WA while bow hunting? What in the hell do you do if a chipmunk charges you?

forget the chipmunk...those tweety birds are insane.

yeah its a joke we cant carry a sidearm while archery hunting. ive had some close calls with cougars while archery hunting. so yeah

not to mention a cow elk charge me this late season...well kinda charged me/didnt see me. BUT IM STILL CALLING IT A CHARGE lol and it would have been nice to have a sidearm for self defense.

What do you know about the Les Baer pistols? A cop customer of mine says a lot of good things about them.

I don't know much about hand guns but my wife bought me a browning hp 40 cal pistol for Christmas . I am looking into ammo options and holsters.

looking at the Milt Sparks, galco, black hawk serpa, teb blocker holsters. spelling might be off on these but it sure is fun shopping for toys for your toys.

Kramer also makes a good holster. They have a really nice line of concealed carry holsters made with horsehide. This stuff is twice as ttuff and twice as durable. not to mention their a local company..

Kramer Handgun Leather - Revolver holsters, concealment holsters

Don Hume holsters are a bargain.

Here's some Kramer horsehide.

Nice stuff. I love the .40 cal but the damn ammo is sooooo expensive or it. But you get the stopping power, which is the point.

yeah but its alot cheaper the the 44mag i was gonna buy. lol

next im going to get a s&w snubnose 357.

Pocket sized 5 shot .357 magnum. Bead-blasted S.S. finish, magnaported barrel, & trigger a job. Next project is to bob the hammer but the reduced hammer weight might necessitate replacing the original full power springs. When you lighten the trigger pull on a revolver you also reduce the hammer force on the firing pin.

To anyone thinking of magna-porting a snub nose revolver - it doesn't really work. You end up getting a really big light show instead of the reduced muzzle lift as it was intended to do.

Lets see what else you got rafterman, I love looking at guns

The only gun I ever had pointed at me was one of those Ruger SP-101's. Still gives me the willies. I remember that muzzle shot.

Sweet little gun.

im looking into getting a snubnose 357 in either taurus or s&w...

anyone interested in selling one if ya got it? or trade for my glock 23 40.cal???

How about a cannon?

My salute to SFC "First Sergeant" Clyde E Stafford
10/17/34 - 11/23/07

The bottom photo is from 1969 and I have his desk placard on my desk right now.
6TH BATTALION 37th ARTILLERY Bravo Battery

Rafter
You have some cool stuff

Ya he's got more toy's then i will ever have. My buddy just bought a AR 50 so at least i get to giggle for awhile until i shoot it. Then someone will have to wipe that grin off my face.

Rafter do you know of a good price on rounds for the AR 50?

Rafterman has some sweet toys.

This has been my project the last couple of months. The Twins are now complete. Was fun buying all the accessories and crap. If I really wanted the "cool" factor, I'd add a green laser and SureFire to the M4!

Kudos to RowVWade - I highly recommend his services. Bill's a good man!

Those zombies don't stand a chance now!

Tactical/EOTWAWKI M4 on the top. 20" HBAR "shooter" on the bottom.



Next toy in th works is the M1 Garand. Should be here in about a month. Fingers crossed.

idk parker they look a little different to me lol

really though those zombies are good as dead now

Parker, Are you getting a new one from Springfield Armory or did you go through the CMP?

Just picked me up a Springfield XD45 in .45. I was wanting a .45 as I already have several other makes in .40, 9mm etc.

My next purchase will be a 1911 style. But, being as I shoot southpaw, my options are a little limited. I sure do like the Kimber Compact CDP !!!

Any recommendations on models that have ambidextrious controls ???????

CMP. Correct Grade. Harrington & Richardson.

The Springfield SN's for this grade are pretty high. Very unlikely that any of those guns were built before or during WWII.

I felt like I had a better shot at getting a WWII veteran rifle with the H&R. I'd love to have a gun that saw service in WWII. We'll see.

My Uncle has a 1911 that saw service in WWI. That's World War UNO! He's taken it all apart and put one of those stupid rifle barrels over the lower receiver. Ugh. He's the kinda of guy that would sell it tomorrow, if he wanted something else. Of course, I keep telling him not to sell it and to not mess it up, as I'd love to see it stay in the family. It's a truly cool 1911.



Yup. The top one won't shoot for crap past 25 yards. It's built with a short, light barrel, has optics with no magnification, has a stock that collapses (urban combat), has the front "hand hold". Really, more a point-n-shoot, or spray-n-pray kind of rifle. Really good for when those zombies are IN CLOSE! Oh yeah, and it even has the notch in the barrel for the M203 grenade launcher. I need to get one of those.

The other rifle has a longer, heavier HBAR barrel. It has a 3x12 scope and a Harris Bipod on the front. I'll have the trigger worked on a bit. I'm hoping to dial it in to hit a flees ass at 200 yards. Should be really good for those long range shots at zombies.

Not too sure what I'm going to do with the new Garand. I'll probably get a bayonet for it, and if I'm ever charged by small animals or children, I can just skewer them all up on the bayonet. Hell, a good butt-stroking by the M1 wouldn't be a bad call, either. Nothing says love like kissing the ass end of an M1.

I just picked up 500 rounds for both the M4 and the M1.

Zombies, beware!

really are they that unaccurate like that?

i really wanna get one for varmint hunting. i was checking them out at the range the other day and they guys that were there had come badass guns.

Pretty much.

Neither gun would be a "good" varmint gun.

Zombie gun, yes. Varmint gun, no.

hey fishhog,

i, too, shoot southpaw. i've been looking around for a 1911 for a while, and heard lots of good things about the taurus pt1911. i think they run about $550 or so, and for the money, it'd be hard to beat. while not as polished as some of the high end pistols, it's got some pretty nice features--and it's ambi-friendly. for the same price, you'd only be able to get a mil-spec pistol. i checked one out at dj's in bothell not too long ago, very sweet. google up some reviews-you might be surprised




willy

lol sounds like my buddie cody. all he talks about is zombies...every single second while walking in the mall or where ever he is talking about his excape plans when zombies attack lol

i heard those AR's are really good when you switch out the barrels to a target barrel and do all the stuff needed to make them a "target/varmint" gun.

and yeah i wouldnt mind having one for when zombies attack

The Taurus units are a great deal for the $$$.

For my next purchase, I'm going to strap on my big shoes and get a high end unit. You can never have enough guns right ? Especially with all the Zombies running around

heheh yeah man.

im gonna buy a AK in the near future.

actually i might buy one of the new remington ones. they looks really good...

My Department utilizes CorBon +P, very effective. We are issued Glocks in 40 cal. The Glock shoots very nicely and the Corbon +P hits with authority. Give it a try.