Time to Re-Barrel

How do you know when ?


My old 1980 Ruger M-77 in 270 Winchester is getting to that point I think. If I had to guess I would put the round count in the 4000 range, I'm a reloader & have shot just about everything thru this rifle, from 90 gr. Sierra hp's @ 3600 fps. to 160 gr. Partitions @ 2700 fps for elk.


I've shot this bbl to the "way too hot to touch" point more times than I care to admit. I've cleaned regularly after each shooting session & work @ getting the copper out. But the groups are opening up.


Used to get 1-2 MOA with almost anything, & w/ good load going sub MOA for 3 shots. Now I'm getting +2 MOA w/ my good stuff


Also thinking I like a heaver #4 contour in 25-26" over my old 22" lightweight bbl.

Was quoted $600 for the job, that's with a Douglas Premium barrel in blued or stainless, glass bedded & free floated & includes cleaning up my stock Ruger trigger.



any thoughts ?



c/22

Mr. Chrome/22

A 26" re-barrel will greatly enhance the perfomance of your Ruger M77 chambered in .270 Winchester. I never could understand why Ruger put 22" barrels on a rifle holding like 60 grains of powder. It really limited the long range perfomance of a tremendous cartridge.

Now, please do not take offense, but there are many better choises out there than a Douglas re-barrel, wheter it be a Std. Douglas or a Douglas Premium. They do make a fine barrel, "for the price". But in the same price range you can do way better quality wise from a company like PacNor.

Some people would argue that there would be no reason to install a premium quality barrel from the likes of Shilen, Hart, Kreiger, or even Bartlien on a Ruger tang safety M77 hunting Rifle. Well, I would not be one of those because the quality of your barrel blank can make all the difference in the world as to how your rifle will shoot with the full weight range of projectiles suitible for your .270 caliber rifle.

I have some experience in this field after building custom bolt rifles for the last twenty years or so and have done a few Ruger M 77's as well. 600.00 for the job you described seems a little steep to me but each riflesmith charges what he thinks the market will bear.

Good luck to you on your project and the best advice I can offer is for you to get a couple more quotes on your job and see what some other gunsmith is willing to do the job for. Perhaps you just might find one willing to the job for the same price but install a higher quality barrel at the same time.

BB, thanks for the reply.

Due to sentimental reasons I am going to keep this rifle & continue to shoot it, that being said I prefer to have it as accurate as possible. I agree with you on the longer bbl, as I want to maximise velocity & am not too concerned about overall weight I was thinking of a #4 or possibly a slimmer #3 contour 26" bbl


I mentioned the PacNor bbl option to my gunsmith, as I have heard good things about them. He he seemed agreeable to using that bbl, just mentioned that the time from order to delivery could be on the long side.

I think he has just used Douglas for a while & is just comfortable with them, so he puts that out there.


c/22

C22,
Before guessing, try a few things first.

1) Repeated wash/rinse with Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 to remove all copper fouling. Then stroke that bore with JB Bore Paste 'til it screams. For dessert, give the bore a patch of moly bore paste.

2) Set seat depth of your preferred projectile (PP) to obtain an osculation betwixt PP and throat/lands. Kissing will almost always bear better fruit than jumpin'.

3) To compare/contrast, work up charge weights in 0.5 grain increments toward published maximums to find tightest group/pressure limits (like I'm going to tell you how much of a good thing to use in a public forum).

4) As a suggestion, try 130 gr TTSX's or 140 gr TSX's over R22 with 210M ignition.

Then you'll *know* if you need a new spout. To avoid an I toldya so, a #3/#4 finished at 24" or longer will be heavy in the bow and handle awkwardly in accord. You'd also likely have to have your stock's barrel channel dredged to inlet the fatter spout. A 22" dupe of your present sporter contour should shine in contrast.

Have fun, Brad!

Brad, I think that after the extensive reloading experience that Crome/22 has decribed in his OP, he is fully aware of all of the "tricks" you described. Believe it not, many folks out there actually prefer a rifle that is a little weight forward / muzzle heavy. It tends adds greater stability in windy conditions, less felt recoil due to the heavier barrel weight, and increased balistic performance at longer ranges.

I'm not sayin' that I know more than you about this subject, just relating back on my 40 some years hunting and then twenty some years building custom long range target rifles.

Big fan of the TTSX and other Barnes pills.

The research I did while building my lastest rifle showed very little difference in accuracy or velocity in terms of barrel length. One report took a .300 win mag and shot it with the same load in groups of 3-5 shots(not sure what the exact number was). After each group they would cut off 1" of barrel. The results were amazing. There was virtually know difference in either accuracy or velocity until they got below 20". Even then the differences were not big, maybe a couple hundred fps. The big changes started below 18".

My objective was to build the smallest and lightest backcountry rifle I could without giving up both. I will try and drum up the article and post it.

Dave

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

I think this is it? It was a few years ago I built it.

I know this is just one acticle and I'm sure you can find many stating the opposite! I'm by know means an expert. An interesting subject for sure!

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

I went 25" on my last barrel. I agree that 600 is a touch high. Douglas barrels are usually easy to find. I know a few smiths that don't use Douglas barrels anymore, but thats just because they had beefs with service. Don't forget about Cascade Armory. They are close, and I have been happy with mine. I have one on a bench gun, and it shoots little round groups at 200 yds. The higher end brand name barrels seem to always have a long wait. Nothing wrong with Lilja either.....I went with one on a 338wm,and it shoots great.
Good luck! I hope you end up with a tack driver..

That's a dandy hunting rifle recipe.

Misconceptions regarding barrel length relative to velocity/accuracy are common. In general, all powder is burned within 3-inches of the barrel throat. Unless one is shooting something like a .308 at 1k, and you want to wisely stay above supersonic speeds at that distance, there really isn't a need to go outside a spout length of 20" - 24" and a #2 contour in a hunting rifle. Unless one doesn't care a wit about weight/balance....

Again, the bullet/intended use is more important than case head stamp or barrel length/contour. Pick the former, and adjust the latter variables in accord for your own recipe. Improving an heirloom .270 should be both fun and rewarding. I know that Brad's efforts will bring both.

I like Pac-Nor and BenchMark as far as Bbls. go.

Good luck with your build.

What's cool about this site is that it shows me that I'm never to old to learn something new. While I never hunted with short barrels sporting a lightweight contour, clearly, there are many that do.

Thinking back on the only .300 Win. Mag I ever had, the thought of touching off a full charge of RL-22 in a rifle with a 20" #2 contour would be a real eye opener.

Fixing up an old rifle holding many great memories of past hunts is something that is always fun and a great pastime in the off season.

Good luck on your project Chrome/22 and let us all know how it turns out.

No arguments here. My suggestions for a spout length of 20-24" would likely balance a .223/.243 nicely at the lower end of that range, while a 24" would balance your 300 as well as it does my 7RM. Such meldings seem to work nicely for the likes of Kimber, Remington, and those that build/use their own rifles.....

Just curious, but since you like the rifle why not just rebore it.
An easy conversion is to 30-06. Course you could go 35 Whelen too.
33 OKH is out there but demands a reloading operation. Any of the calibers twixt 277 and 358 would make a darn fine deer/elk/bear rifle.

Humm, thats not a bad idea. Any idea on cost?


Always wanted a .338/06.


c/22

Go 280AI in a contour no larger than you're flying now and no longer than 23".

Thank me later.

Thanks, stick.


c/22

It is somethin' when both the answer and the source are obvious.

Worth thanks sooner than later in accord.....

This tread just keeps getting better, who's going to show up next ?

Will the chromester re-barrel or just re-bore ?


The drama of it all !!!



c/22

This tread just keeps getting better, Big stick, d-07, who's going to show up next...Jonas ?

Will the chromester re-barrel or just re-bore ?


Oh the drama!!!



c/22

I don't know costs but it cannot be any worse than a rebarrel job.
You have some smiths over on the wet side that advertise in Rifle and in Handloader often. There is a rebore guy in Colville, Wa too.
Like that 338/06 idea. Always wanted one too.

Is Rick Fruendenburg, the gunsmith, still in the Everett area? He has
a pretty good reputation in the trade.

.280 AI would be very nice if you can find someone that does it and it cleans up for that bore.

While I was looking around for an AR barrel, I saw this shop recommended for its stock of conventional barrels on hand :
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/m..._Code=2KR270CAL

Update: 3-5-2013



Just got my old M-77 back from Rainer Rifle Co. in Gig Harbor. Sporting a new 25" BenchMark in 416R stainless (bead blasted finish) chambered in 270 Winchester. They matched the old Ruger bbl contour perfectly.

Looks absolutely deadly can't wait to try some old favorite loads. Total cost $450.00


c/22

Cool! $450 for a new barrel job is pretty good. Do you have iron sights on the barrel, or is it strictly a scoped rifle?

Don't forget to break it in properly....

Have fun!

Tubbs. http://www.davidtubb.com/ff-kit-284-7mm-cal.

No irons, just my Burris 3-10X

I've been a Hoppe's #9 guy, thinking of going with MONTANA X-TREME products for this bore.


Anyone?

Haven't used MT X-treme. That said, I have been most happy with Frog Lube liquid for general CLP requirements. It stays where you put it. The minty fresh scent dissipates after a spell. There are also a number of anecdotal CLP/copper fouling tests on the web for further inquiry.....

Frog Lube Reviews

A 9.5-twist SAAMI 280 or the Improved variation contoured to match and throated to kiss the lands with your choice of slick, slicker or slickest projectiles would likely make for positive outcomes....

Barnes LRX Options