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#979944 - 09/21/17 08:14 AM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: Carcassman]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
I can understand that a youngster from Skagit has not killed a wild steelhead but if they haven't seen one, they haven't been looking.

Walk some streams in March/April/May.


I think WW's point is that there has been no opportunity to fish for wild steelhead during that young person's fishing life. Spawning surveys are a different kind of opportunity, maybe the wave of the future.

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#979948 - 09/21/17 08:36 AM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I understand the point, but there is difference between seeing and catching.

And, that is one of the problems we are coming into in conservation. I have somewhat convinced a few non-hunting birders that it might be better for the environment if we hunted shorebirds (at least plover and curlew sized), cranes (including Whoopers) and swans (including Trumpeters). To hunt, you need large populations which require large tracts of habitat. To simply see (tick off on a list) you need a lot less land.

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#979956 - 09/21/17 01:10 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Hate to be the grammar cops but the streams are not, to my knowledge, closed to walking. Just like in the post from WW he said "seen" when he meant "caught". You meant "angle", not walk.

I agree that WDFW has made a mashup up management but if you wanna see steelhead or salmon one needs to look.

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#979958 - 09/21/17 01:23 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: Carcassman]
Piper
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Hate to be the grammar cops but the streams are not, to my knowledge, closed to walking.


FWDFW should set up some public outreach meetings to discuss proper stream walking and spawning fish watching technics.. Hell, FWDFW should capitalize on the future stream walking fish spawning craze and offer up stream walking licenses to help offset the destruction by trampling of native vegetation and salmon and steelhead reds...

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#979959 - 09/21/17 01:24 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3313
Guess I have to agree. I saw salmon Monday, and I even angled for them, but damned if I caught any.

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#979961 - 09/21/17 01:39 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It is interesting that hunters and fishermen often claim, in surveys, that the number one reason that they go out is to be in nature. Catching/killing is almost always way down on the list.

If that were the case, then rods, reels, and guns are not needed and open seasons aren't either.

Back in the 1980s there was an issue with South Sound Chinook wherein the non-Indians were taking more than 50%. Part of the solution was to close much of the Sound to Chinook Harvest. It wasn't closed to salmon fishing, just Chinook killing. C&R was open, coho were open, yet nobody went out. My first encounter with the fact that being out in nature is not more important than killing.

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#979963 - 09/21/17 02:29 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: Carcassman]
Piper
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Carcassman

Back in the 1980s there was an issue with South Sound Chinook wherein the non-Indians were taking more than 50%. Part of the solution was to close much of the Sound to Chinook Harvest. It wasn't closed to salmon fishing, just Chinook killing. C&R was open, coho were open, yet nobody went out. My first encounter with the fact that being out in nature is not more important than killing.


I remember those days. we used to fish the narrows and off the concrete dock on fox island, Chinook fishing was incredible... ironically, even back then the resident coho were usually only 12" long and keeping two just didn't pay when you factor in boat launch fees, gas and bait...

FWDFW fvcked us back then too...


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#979967 - 09/21/17 04:28 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Sounds like fun. Most of what I did was walking creeks. The best was when we did surveys September-June to cover all the species and I walked the same section each week. Got to know the fish really well.

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#979969 - 09/21/17 04:51 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
spokey9 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Ravenden, AR
Heres the proposed rule changes in case anybody hasn't seen

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulations/rule_proposals/policies.php
_________________________
Beware of the 3 inch Perch

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#979976 - 09/22/17 05:55 AM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: Carcassman]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Hate to be the grammar cops but the streams are not, to my knowledge, closed to walking. Just like in the post from WW he said "seen" when he meant "caught". You meant "angle", not walk.

I agree that WDFW has made a mashup up management but if you wanna see steelhead or salmon one needs to look.


Well then, we can play the ultra literal game if you want to. I mentioned drivers licenses - kids without one of those and a car to go along with it will have a tough time accessing a lot of spawning creeks. And, around here a lot of them are behind locked gates and "No Trespassing" signs.

When you surveyed those creeks did you walk to all of them from your house or did you ride a bike? Bus? Train? Boat? Plane? Just how did you get there? Did you skip school to do it?

With a very little effort it's easy to extrapolate from my statement that the kids in the age group I referenced have not had the opportunity to spend a weekend fishing with their parents, uncle, older brother, etc.for wild steelhead. These are the kids that in the not too distant future will be entrusted to "manage" this resource. It will be tough recruiting from a class of youngsters with little to no life experience with fish or fishing. (Super market experience not considered in that last statement in case you want to get literal again.)

I'm not sure what got you interested in fish enough to spend a career working with them. Was it because you were NOT fishing for them when a youngster? If so, I hope you are smart enough to realize that you are the exception and not the norm.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#979982 - 09/22/17 08:54 AM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: _WW_]
Brent K Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 108
Loc: Arlington, Washington
It makes me sad, frustrated, and angry when I think about not being able to fish the Skagit anymore in the spring. My oldest nephew is now 10 years old and is starting to ask me about teaching him how to fish for steelhead. None of the rivers I grew up fishing are open now and may never be open again. I have taken him fishing for dollies a couple of times but it is not the same and it is hard to keep a youngster interested when they are freezing on the river in Dec/Jan. Hopefully he is still interested when he is old enough to go to BC with me.

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#979983 - 09/22/17 08:58 AM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Eliminate "mandatory Steelhead retention" YES
this anti fishing law has to go! They lifted it when wild runs were weak?


Eliminate "must keep trout caught on bait" YES
I have been saying this is the dumbest rule for years. You can catch ESA listed Salmon all day long on bait, but we are supposed to count hatchery trout towards limit when fishing for something else?

10 fish Kokanee. YES
Most lakes are over planted on the westside.

"Dumping chum or garbage in ponds to attract fish". HELL NO!!!


I am trying to understand how throwing a blanket statewide on biologists management decisions per lake simplifies anything. I don't think the new WDFW is any smarter than they were. Is the goal to have less people look at the regulations pamphlet?

If they want to simplify regulations then a app to look up the regulations by body of water or gps might do that.

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#979994 - 09/22/17 12:15 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: Jake Dogfish]
spokey9 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Ravenden, AR
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
Eliminate "must keep trout caught on bait" YES
I have been saying this is the dumbest rule for years. You can catch ESA listed Salmon all day long on bait, but we are supposed to count hatchery trout towards limit when fishing for something else


Not that I participate in stocked trout fisheries much anymore, but the mortality rate on those fish hooked on bait is insanely high. Add that to the fact most people don't set the hook quick enough that the fish don't get gut hooked and you can basically say goodbye to holdovers. I primarily fish trout a few months after the last plant since it takes awhile before their meat becomes even somewhat edible (mainly fall & winter when the rivers are either closed or the runs are small) and this rule will pretty much kill off that part of lowland trout fishing.

I don't c&r wild fish all day on any type of gear or bait. I move if I'm hooking more wild fish than I'm comfortable with (unless that run is fairly strong, which isn't the case in scenarios).
_________________________
Beware of the 3 inch Perch

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#979996 - 09/22/17 12:25 PM Re: WDFW working on new freshwater regs [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Maybe yes, maybe no. Idyho did a study of stream trout with bait, flies, and treble lures. All barbed the bait was circle hooks. Lowest mortality was flies. Only slightly higher was bait. Lures were 3 or 4 times worse. They looked at survival over the summer so it was not short term. Was resident stream trout. Bait does not have to be deadly.

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