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#998402 - 12/09/18 01:15 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: Carcassman]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
The true non-selective, age destroying, size destroying fisheries have historically been the marine mixed stock hook and line. Commercial troll and rec.




No truer words have EVER been posted here, particularly so for chinook.

The poor bastards are relentlessly getting picked off at EVERY life stage, with disproportionate exploitation of any fish unfortunate enough to be genetically programmed to morph into the older larger phenotype. For most, it's simply a genetic dead end. Fisheries are systematically snuffing out the old large phenotype.

Any fish over 24" that encounters hook/line is pretty much toast... WHACK.

Unfortunately a HUGE portion of the sub-legals encountered with commercial troll gear are also good as dead upon release.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#998404 - 12/09/18 08:21 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Same can be said for trout fisheries with minimum sizes. In ID, a friend did his MSc on the special trout regs. The stream with C&R had Westslopes that were 16-18". The stream with a 13" minimum had fish up to about 13.1". It worked because the 13's had spawned once, but they never got big and old.

Spawning populations are made up of the fish that live to spawn. Weed out the faster growing fish (hit minimums sooner), the potentially older ones (exposed to fisheries longer) and you get smaller, younger spawners. This has been known to managers and researchers since at least the 70s. We can't claim that we didn't know what we were doing.

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#998406 - 12/09/18 09:00 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4393
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
CC I find the lack of understanding of what drives the down sizing or alternation of salmonids to be just plain strange. From Chinook being blasted on the marine which is the reason of the loss of 5 and 6 yr class which means smaller fish dominate. Non biting Coho? Well if you hook and line out the aggressive ones long enough you will get a return that sticks to natures rules, no bite in fresh water. The most dramatic that was told me years ago was taking a 12 to 15 lb hatchery Coho brood and netting the hell out of it resulting in the smaller fish escape more and then eventually dominate the brood and wella a 5 to 8 lb hatchery Coho. Folks this is very very basic animal husbandry known for centuries. The only difference in raising fish or cattle is fish live in water. The laws of natural or mankind selectivity are well known even by WDFW.


Edited by Rivrguy (12/09/18 09:02 AM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#998407 - 12/09/18 09:03 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
They may be well known but they get ignored as inconvenient.

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#998414 - 12/09/18 09:50 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
The tipping point has been reached a long time ago. Mismanagement through greed, malpractice and ignorance have produced the miserable conditions we are now faced with. Couple this with Mother nature giving us a slap to the side of the head with unfavorable ocean conditions and we have now gone over the edge of the cliff.

The only thing that could possibly throw the fish a life line is a complete and radical change in the Fisheries that are impacting them and, of course all the talking in the world will not produce that so long as we continue to have GREED, MALPRACTICE AND IGNORANCE set the management of our fish.

Does anyone here really believe that any of the three groups, NI Commercials, Tribal Commercials or Recreation will make a dramatic change without the other two doing the same?

As long as there is money to be made selling fish, the fish will be decimated.

I'll bet that there is a high number of Commercial (both NI and Tribal) fishermen who do not live on fishing alone. Most have other sources of income and fishing only supplements it.

And I'll also bet that there is a high percentage of Tribal fisheries that take place, not because they live by the income, but they net because "THEY CAN. They fought for the right to fish, so they are somewhat obligated to.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#998419 - 12/09/18 11:52 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Although not as common south of the border, much of the First Nations salmon fisheries were (and probably still are) subsistence. They catch and preserve the year's food supply during the run. Same as in AK where there are lots of folks (I and NI) that rely on subsistence harvest.

An interesting aspect of the US/Canada treaty, at least the first iteration in mid '80s, reserved the first 400K harvestable Fraser sockeye for the FN subsistence fishery. These fish were above the escapement goals but taken off the harvestable before it was divided between the Countries.

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#998446 - 12/10/18 01:54 PM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Swifty27 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 389
Loc: Tri-Cities, WA
I had hears some encouraging things on the new director. The line about gill nets was disheartening to hear. It's amazing how many small coho and sockeye can be caught in Chinook gill nets when they're allowed to be sold.

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#998471 - 12/11/18 10:27 AM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Susewind is a puppet. He was selected, vetted and interviewed as a puppet and is way over his head, just as he is supposed to be. There is no backbone in him, nor is there supposed to be. He was purchased as a nurtured mute (in both definitions) and that is exactly how he is supposed to be. The Commercial and Tribal factions have gotten a Commission, and WDFW Leadership perfect for their agenda. Recs are a nuisance that can suck the scraps off the floor of the North of Falcon. WE HAVE NO REAL VOICE, NO REAL POWER, NO REAL ORGANIZATION.

REALITY IS A M.F.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#998483 - 12/11/18 12:06 PM Re: SUSEWIND... why so lo-pro? [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Recs are marginalized because they seem to want it that way. If I can have my fishery, I'm happy. Who cares about bass, anyway?

Anybody who has been involved with the Tribes knows that inter (an probably intra) Tribal fights are bloody. But, they will unite to protect any tribe.

The rec side has chosen to not cooperate among themselves, not get politically involved, not buy influence. And, we still buy licenses......

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