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#324331 - 12/16/05 08:10 AM Herring problems in Puget Sound!
SnowDog Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Bothell
From King 5... This does not look good for the Salmon!

SEATTLE – A nearly catastrophic decline in Puget Sound herring populations may help explain the troubles facing the region’s resident orca whale population, recently listed as an endangered species.

Scientists said Thursday that herring and several other species of fish up and down the West Coast are falling prey to a pair of viruses and a parasite.

The source of the viruses could be ballast water from ships arriving in Puget Sound from faraway ports with different ecosystems.

The one-two punch of virus and parasite caused a die off of as much as 95 percent of one population of herring, called the Cherry Point herring, near the eponymous point between Bellingham and the Canadian border.

The group was once the largest populations of herring in the Sound.

Scientists at a lab run by the U.S. Geological Survey that studies fish diseases called attention to the threat Thursday, noting that herring are what is called a forage fish, meaning they are near the bottom of the food chain and the populations’ health can affect the health of species that prey on them.

Some species of endangered salmon and orca feed on the herring.

Fish scientists from the Marrowstone Island lab are now attempting to determine how precisely how the decline in herring populations has affected other species, including orcas.
The herring decline is just one of many things possibly affecting the health of the Sound's fish and whale population. The amount of dissolved oxygen in parts of Hood Canal has made the area almost uninhabitable for some fish. Some species of birds are also in decline.
“There are significant shifts going on in the Sound now with the food web, That's when you start to see changes in the salmon population and the orca populations,” said Western Regional Biologist Frank Shipley.
_________________________
"Plus ça change
Plus c’est la même chose"

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#324332 - 12/16/05 11:20 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
AuntyM Offline
Preserved Habitat

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 14011
Loc: Harstine Island
That's just lovely.

Looks like we imposed stricter ballast water laws a little too late.

Quote:
Future Treatment Requirements: As of July 1, 2007, the discharge of improperly exchanged or treated ballast water into Washington State waters is prohibited. This means current safety exemptions for exchange will no longer be valid after July 1, 2007. Vessel operators must begin now to plan for implementing treatment alternatives to exchange.

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If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.

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#324333 - 12/16/05 11:43 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Badbobber Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 301
Loc: Ravensdale, Wa
Yeah I saw that last night and it is not good news.

I have caught silvers from the beach next to the Marrowstone Island lab before, boy that was fun.
_________________________
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#324334 - 12/17/05 07:21 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 821
Loc: Port Orchard
Funny they didnt mention the natives raking the eggs off the eelgrass! to sell to Japan.

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#324335 - 12/17/05 07:59 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 4781
Loc: West Duvall
Or the commercial herring fishery!

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#324336 - 12/17/05 08:26 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
salmonbelly Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 359
Loc: Kirkland, Wa USA
Then tell us about this herring roe fishing, and the commerical herring fishery. If there's any of any great extent on the inland waters, I have not heard of them.

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#324337 - 12/17/05 08:28 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
love2fish too Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 181
Loc: Port Townsend
This is serious stuff. I've seen the data and something like 90% of the older herring are infected. It would totally explain the loss of larger fish, which happen to be more successful spawners. It kills them before they can really be reproducing in any appreciable amounts.

While herring fisheries will add to the problem, the parasite has the potential to be catastrophic, if it already hasn't been.

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#324338 - 12/17/05 08:53 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 4781
Loc: West Duvall
Salmonbelly: I know nothing of the Indian egg harvest, but a few years back I did an article on our herring declines. At that time there were significant - something like 30 tons or more if memory serves - commercial herring fisheries at Cherry Point and Discovery Bay. If I can find the old article, I will send you a copy.

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#324339 - 12/17/05 09:49 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 2821
Loc: Sequim
My records show that the non-tribal commercial herring landings for 2000 to 2004 are as follows:

Year Lbs landed Est. Value
2000 554,054 $213,206.07
2001 813,226 $297,688.65
2002 1,196,868 $527,997.15
2003 1,069,072 $510,186.25
2004 720,914 $292,893.09

These fish are shown as bait fish. That is a lot of biomass to remove. It is unknown how much of the herring are sold as bait and how much was turned into fish and poultry feed.

There is no record of tribal harvest of herring in Puget Sound per WDFW records.

The coastal harvest of herring is pretty small. The highest amount was in 2002 with 13,161 lbs landed. Sardines and anchovies, on the other hand, are landed in huge numbers.

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#324340 - 12/17/05 09:56 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 4781
Loc: West Duvall
I did find my old article. At the time it was written we were harvesting roughly 400,000 pound of herring in Washington. I see from Bushbears report it is now more like 700,000 lbs.

I was unaware of this new virus, and admit that a virus could certainly do a lot more damage than a commercial harvest. Of course contiunued commercial harvest on sick stocks would seem to be unwise.

My old article was primarily focused on B.C. where harvest levels are very much higher. If anyone wants to read the article email me and I will send you a copy.

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#324341 - 12/18/05 12:45 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 821
Loc: Port Orchard
There plenty of information on the herring roe fishery if you look.
the problem is it is being kept hush hush. years ago there was also a bremerton sun article on the harvest of herring roe by the suquamish tribe. they show pictures of the indians raking the roe off the kelp on bainbridge island. It was then that the decline started. Same way the alaska fisheries went. the herring populations did not plummet until the harvest of roe.


"Port Gamble and Lower Elwha S'Klallams joined with the Skokomish Tribe (formerly the Twana ) to form the Point No Point Treaty council, a fisheries management cooperative designed to manage and enhance the fisheries resources in the Point No Point Treaty area.(3) In 1976, a Point No Point tribal fish hatchery was constructed at the base of the bluff on Point Julia, at the mouth of Little Boston Creek. The Tribe still uses this facility as both a hatchery and a herring roe processing plant."

------------------------------------------------
"The spawn-on-kelp fishery is currently limited to specific north Puget Sound spawning stocks. The fishery is managed among WDFW and four tribes. A Herring Technical Team, comprised of representatives from the management bodies, is responsible for developing annual management plans that include run forecasts, harvest guidelines, and fishery protocols. The fishery is regulated by area, season, gear type and harvest guidelines. Harvest guidelines are based on annual stock biomass estimates.

--------------------------------------------------

Herring are an important part of the northern Pacific marine food web. Herring are a food source for gulls, ducks, pilchards, jellyfish, fish, and marine mammals. Thousands of jobs are created from the harvest of herring roe, and the sustainable and prized roe on kelp fishery is worth over $10 million annually. Herring are also an important part of the First Nations subsistence fishery. Herring spawn on beaches.

herring info page
More information here. It happens more then what there saying here though.

------------------------------------------------

"The Japanese had an insatiable appetite for herring roe, and after wiping out their own stocks, as well as the other huge stocks in the world such as those of Norway and the Grande Banks of Nova Scotia, they turned their eyes toward the west coast of North America. Sac roe fisheries soon sprang up in British Columbia, California, Oregon and Washington. Industry began pressuring the Alaska legislature and in 1972, the law prohibiting sac roe fishing was quietly repealed without any public notice."

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#324342 - 12/18/05 01:18 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 821
Loc: Port Orchard
The commercial fishery really pisses me off too.

for years out at the point defiance dock and at narrows marina they kept a five gallon out side the tanks. The bucket was for the herring that died and THE YOUNG SALMON THAT WERE CAUGHT WITH THEM! Thousands of dead salmon 3 to 7 inches long.

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#324343 - 12/18/05 07:55 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
salmonbelly Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 359
Loc: Kirkland, Wa USA
Thanks all, yes in light of the disease issues, I would say damn right they better close those harvests. Interesting that the commercial landings here increased about the time the Canadians started having bait supply issues. Remember how hard it was to get herring for spring chinook fishing a couple years ago? At the same time, if they close all the herring fisheries, where will we get bait? Jigging them up is not always an option. Another huge issue is habitat, ie the Cherry Point stock, which has been in decline for several years.

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#324344 - 12/18/05 08:08 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Smalma Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 1786
Loc: Marysville
For those that may be interested here is a site with some background information on herring and the management of them.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/forage/herring.htm#hbiology

While dated - landings etc only up through 1996 it does provide some good info. A couple points that I found interesting -

The adnormally high natural mortality in recent years.

The different spawning timing of the Cherry Point stock - wonder if that makes it more vulunerable to what is causing the natural mortality.

The vast majority of the Puget Sound commerical harvest goes to the bait industry.

Tight lines
Curt

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#324345 - 12/18/05 09:10 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 4781
Loc: West Duvall
The B.C. Herring harvest looks to be huge. I think we can get all the bait herring we need from B.C. I found this on a DFO site.

"The estimated harvestable surplus in 2005 (20% of the 2005 forecast herring run) based on forecast abundance to the five assessment regions is 37,540 tonnes for the B.C. coast assuming average recruitment to all areas except the Queen Charlotte Islands where the stock remains at depressed levels and no surplus is available."

This is what a healthy herring spawn looks like.

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#324346 - 12/18/05 09:15 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 4781
Loc: West Duvall
I dont think we need to worry about getting herring fro bait. The mmost recent B.C. herring harvest forcast was for roughly 37,000 tonnes. Here is what a healthy herring spawn looks like. Has anyone seen anything like the in Washington waters in the last 230 years. I have not.

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#324347 - 12/18/05 09:23 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Smalma Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 1786
Loc: Marysville
Micro -
Just noticed that I duplicated your link -sorry for not reading more carefully. I agree with that much of the commerical fishery (especially the spawn on kelp) makes little sense.

Dave -
35 years ago the Cherry Point white water/spawn was not all that dis-similar. Of course the pre-dates that population's crash.

Tight lines
Curt

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#324348 - 12/18/05 10:47 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Fishinnut Online   content
Spawner

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 967
Loc: Monroe, Washington
I know Nichols Brothers (boat builders) planted eel grass in Homes Harbor and they had big herring returns and it was sucessful.

If memory serves me correct the Cherry Point Herring were the only Puget Sound herring that were spring spawners and the rest were winter spawners. These have been over-harvested. I thought we were actually doing good on the herring. Maybe our next push is to build herring beds out of eel grass.
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Join the Puget Sound Anglers Sno-King Chapter. Meets second Thursday of every month at the SCS Center, 220 Railroad Ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 at 6:30pm Two buildings south of the Edmonds Ferry on the beach.

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#324349 - 12/18/05 11:18 AM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 4781
Loc: West Duvall
I think this points up how many areas need attention. The dam operators say it’s the commercials, the commercials say it’s the sporties, the environmentalists say we need better habitat. In truth every part of the life cycle needs looked at and many issues need to be addressed.

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#324350 - 12/18/05 12:22 PM Re: Herring problems in Puget Sound!
Hoghunter Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Snohomish
For what it's worth, all the blackmouth I've caught in the past month and a half have been pretty much stuffed with 6 to 8 in herring. This isn't what I normally find in these fish. It's usually candlefish.

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