Got your new boat tabs and surprise?

What is with our "Babysit your ass", politico's? Auditor hands me a CO poisoning warning label to stick on my boat when I purchase my June boat tabs. Sweet! How come the bastages didn't pass a law making everyone with a garage paste a sticker in their garage??? Heard of a lot of people killing themselves at home with car exhaust, generator exhaust, bbq's, but have not heard of any deaths in a boat. Why would they think a sticker would fix the problem in a boat, but not in a garage? I have a grand idea just where to "stick" their stickers...and it would be in keeping with where they would have to put their heads to read it!!

I'm with ya there!......Washington State at it's finest.

Blame it on the California influance.

It's a liberal "feel good" attempt to save someone from themselves.

A family in our area lost their daughter when she sat on the swim step for a couple with the motor running...Fell in the water and as soon as they heard her fall in the water it was too late...Carbon Monoxide poisoning....

fish hunter, that is very sad and my heart goes out to the family.Never want to hear of a child getting hurt or worse.
I do not agree with the addition of the sticker on my boat,I have an off shore bracket and an outboard, would not let anyone sit back there and have heard about the poisonings in the past.It is getting pretty bad though,did you hear about the seat belts for motorcycles? That would be classic......

Since 1987, Washington's population has gone from 4.5 million people to 6.5 million people.

Guess where they all came from?

Mexico????

Seriously 2 wheelers with seatbelts? That way when a fat f350 plows into you you stick with the bike as it gets mangled and disinegrates????

Thats seriously the the second funniest thing I've heard all day... I know I heard somethin funnier this morning, but I don't remember what it was

I have to chime in here...its actually NOT completely dumb. WHAT IS dumb is what people are/were doing. Its a "sport" called "teak surfing". Holding on to the swimstep (in the exhaust) and getting towed like a skier. Carbon Monoxide poisoning at its finest! There have been a couple of local deaths because of it, and it IS that time of year...

my freind got his tabs in the mail..pulled out his tabs and threw away the pamplet and sticker not knowing it was in there...i had mine on the coffee table ready to put in the boat and he just about flipped he thew his away...he had no idea it was in there...with his luck he would be the person to be herassed first for not having it...we went and got him another at the license place...sometimes its hard to keep up with all the tiny changes in this state...c

I hear they are going to make us put roll bars on our boats next year.

It may seem ridiculous, but if all the stickers printed and posted save even one life, makes one more person who didn't know now know....
It is worth it!!!!!!

Joe

I know a couple of drift boat owners who should have to put methane warning stickers on their boats.

Fish on...

Todd

I have to agree with WorstFishCatcher on this one. Geez guys, it's just a little sticker, put it on and live with it. If they gave away 10 dollar bills someone would beeotch that it ain't a twenty spot!

fp

Which district do you live in? Did you participate in the public testimony on this bill? Did you write letters?

Do you have any idea what your representatives are doing in Olympia?

If you don't get involved, don't bitch about it...

According to the bill digest, there was no one there to vote against it...all public testimony was in favor.

The bill was introduced by a bi-partisan group of Senators, and the bill passed the senate 44-0, so rest assured that all of the senators, regardless of party, voted for it.

It always amuses me, and dismays me, to see people whine about the laws passed by their representatives, yet they take no time to find out what laws are being considered, or make their voices heard on the laws being considered.

If it came as a surprise to you, and this bill affects your happiness, then you have failed as a citizen to participate in the operation of your state...don't complain to others about your failings.

If, on the other hand, you participated in the process and aren't happy with the result, then you at least have bought yourself the right to bitch...the rest of you have not.

Fish on...

Todd

More people get hurt teaksurfing by getting chopped up by the prop then carbo monoxide poisoning...

Todd, nice post, I agree completely. I am on the other end of the paddle. Every person who leaves my fine state (California) and goes to Washington, makes one less person to deal with on the river. I support this trend, and hope it keeps on rolling.

Gee whiz, I really could have sworn that the First Amendment gave us the right to complain about what our government does without exception. Guess I missed the part you are talking about Todd, either that our you need to go back to law school.

fj,

Bitch all you want about it...but you won't change anything, and then you'll just bitch about it some more.

Get involved in your government, they're your representatives, after all.

You have all the right in America to bitch, but if you don't participate, don't bitch where I can hear it...I have the right not to listen to people who don't care enough to be involved, but do care enough to whine about what other people do.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,

I think the writers of the Constitution considered complaining in a public forum a valid and very important form of participation in our government, that's why they took the steps they did to protect that right.

I would disagree that complaining about something our government has done will not result in a change, to think any differently, in my opinion, simply means to give up and not participate at all. The history books are full of laws that have been changed or taken off the books because of "squeaky wheels".

You certainly have the right to not listen, I wouldn't argue with that at all. I would consider it a foolish thing to do though if you are trying to debate the topic with the people complaining about it.

I agree with you that we as citizens should be involved in public affairs but with an emphasis on should.

You have no idea what my involvement in our government is, I get the impression that you think I have no involvement in it at all. I find that more than a little odd given the nature of this thread and the fact that we don't even know each other.

FishonJohn, I don't know you, or Todd, but you cast the first stone when you said Todd should go back to law school. You then get upset on your second post. I still agree with Todd. If you see the government doing something you don't like, you need to get involved. Contact your Rep, write letters, go to the media, stage a protest, be a squeaky wheel publicly. To just complain about something, and not do anything is the way bad bills get made law.

I make no assumptions about your particular involvement, fj...I just take exception to defending those who don't participate, yet complain about the result...if you are one of those, then it applies to you, if not, then it doesn't.

Seems to me that there are a few people on this thread who:

1. Don't like the requirement
2. Are suprised by the requirement, and therefore
3. Obviously don't keep tabs on what their representatives are doing on their behalf.

It applies to them, that's for sure...and whoever started the rant about it being the fault of "the liberals", they just need to do some research rather than knee-jerk complain about something that they clearly know nothing about...bipartisan sponsorship and unanimous support all throughout the process...that includes their pet "conservatives", too.

Though a very small issue (a sticker), this thread typifies the usual reaction of an ignorant electorate...don't know what is going on out there, and when something happens they don't like, blame it on the wrong people, usually someone they don't like, rather than take any responsibility for either their own actions/inactions, including doing minimal research to at least figure out what the hell they are talking about before flapping their jaws.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd and Fish Hunter ahve pretty well summed up my feeling on the subject of CO poisoning and Civics 101.

Todd answer your own dang phone when I call. It took me all of 15 seconds to figure out I was talking with Rylee.
I've got a gal coming over with all ingredients to make me fish tacos (says they are better than mine) tonight.
Yeah I know this has nothing to do with stickers or politics or lawyers but I'm cool with that.

Excellent post, Seastrike.

I was driving, so I let SkyGuy handle the communications. Fish tacos sound good...I'm having steelhead tonight.

I don't mind if you hijack the thread to talk about completely irrelevant, and in the main, unimportant side issues...I'm used to that in conversations with my fishing partners, and since we have fished together in the past, it's not only understandable, but inevitable.

Did you put the sticker on your boat? Are you going to stop "teak skiing" when the fishing is slow?

Fish on...

Todd

Todd, that is classic, and so true.

[censored] man a couple of months ago I thought about eating the teak...but thankfully got over that. I'm back in action.
I have not opened my envellope with my sticker but assume after reading this that there is an extra one in there.
ps I think I met Marcelll for a reason.
Gotta mull that over for a while.
dave

TT,
I'm a little at a loss to understand exactly where you're coming from here. I'll admit to a little sarcasm in my first post on this thread although I would be a little reluctant to call it throwing stones but if you want to call it that go ahead. If I offended Todd with that comment he can say so and I'll appologize publicly for it. I've read this thread several times and I really don't see how you came up with I was "upset" in my second post, all I was trying to do was state my point of view. Todd is stating his point of view also, it's called a discussion. Because we disagree does not mean either of us is upset, I'm not and I don't believe Todd is either.

Todd,
I'm not really talking about this sticker on CO poisoning and I haven't stated what I think about that. I'm trying to say that people complaining about what they consider to be an improper governmental intrusion into their private affairs is being involved in the process in my opinion and is exactly what the First Amendment is about. Dessent does not have to take place before our government has acted and is just as valid, if not more so, afterward. My personal opinion is that involvement on ANY level is good and should be encouraged rather than made fun of.
Just so you don't think I'm playing games with the CO sticker it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned. You know as well as I do that just because the Legislature passes a law does not mean anything is going to happen or change. The Litter Bag Law is a very good example of legislation like this.

Can't argue with much in that post, fj...and I'm not offended or upset, not in the least...

Fish on...

Todd

Todd -
I gotta tell you that that 'don't complain if you aren't in the game' is almost word for word what my Dad (rip) said to me more than once. Actually, enough times so I could almost mouth the words if he was saying it. It rings as true now as it did 45 years ago, the first time he gave it to me.

There are really two parts to my rant in this thread...

The first is the "if you don't participate in your government, then stop whining about how it operates"...I think my feelings are pretty clear on that. If you unfortunately find out after the fact, like the surprise of having to put a stupid sticker on your boat's transom, then by all means complain...but don't just complain, take it as an opportunity to decide to not be so surprised the next time...start keeping tabs on the folks who make laws about the things that are important to you, go and testify for or against things that affect those things, or at least mail in some testimony.

Make your opinions known to your legislators, and vote against the ones who go against your wishes, and vote for the ones who do.

The second part of my rant is directed more towards whoever decided it must be the "liberals"...and that part of the rant is the one where I say "if you don't know what you're talking about, you'd be better off to keep your trap shut".

In this case, the bill was co-sponsored by people from both parties, passed unanimously out of committee, where there are both R's and D's, and passed unanimously again in the Senate and House, where there are a whole bunch more R's and D's.

Seems to me those "damn liberals" were to blame...but no more than those "dip$hit conservatives" were...

It's not like the information is hard to find...obviously anyone writing on this thread has a computer with internet access, take five minutes to research it...that's all the time it took me to find out all the information I needed.

Fish on...

Todd

So I gather that some of you think that you can be in every "game" that affects you? I don't think that is what life is about. At some point a person has to say, "I hope they get it right." and trust in the character of those elected. Well, they just don't get it right sometimes. Shall we all sit silently by, or shall we shout "Enough already!"?

I'll complain and become involved as I see fit, when I see fit. The problem as I see it is there are just too many folks with too much time on their hands and too much concern about "What does my neighbor need to change next?"

Here's something to consider. It became apparent to me a week or two ago just how much recent generations of people have been groomed by slanted data thrown at them from every direction. And with no living knowledge of what the past was like, they buy into it and promote it with fervor. The older folks who have been here know what's up. It is not my intention to discredit the more recent populace, but rather to make aware that blind acceptance of the multitude of proclaimed crises is it's own sentence. I know some would like to think that the world just couldn't make it without them....sorry....wrong. This place was here before you and I came along and it will be here when we leave. A lot like taking your hand out of a bucket of water......like it was never there.

BTW....I would have bought into a voluntary sticker if it was accompanied with something like, "We could really use your help. Please help us inform the ignorant."

I am pretty much against legislating in away that makes me responsible for other peoples stupidity. That said, it seems that teak surfing has caused enough heartache it seems to be a pretty minor inconvience.
Now for the hijack....
Todd,
Saying that we need to get more involved is easier said then done. I work with county government all the time, know almost all the players, and still get slammed with stuff that comes out of nowhere. Try sitting in on a community plan at 6pm to 9 pm for two years, where there is no set agenda, and for weeks they argue about where they will put a train station that won't ever exist. I walked out on that one after the 2nd meeting and never went back. I did talk to the people working on it and the only reason they kept coming was that they had to. I have seen Pierce County pass new building codes but not even have the code available for the public or their workers until after they passed it. It is great waiting around on your butt while the county officals try to find out what the new ordinance actually requires. I get involved when I can, and even have had a couple of ordinances changed to take care of problems I ran into. Sure I could have fought the ordinances when they were being passed, if, they were readily available and I had unlimited time. If you can follow every ordinance that is proposed locally, statewide and nationally then I hold you in awe. I know that I have a hard enough time just following the ones I care about. The way things work around here, I have almost given up doing anything until the very end and then I look over the ordinance for mistakes or stupidity and then deal with it then. And yes, I do feel the right to complain. If it was up to us to follow every stupid law government passes, then the legislature could simply suggest policy and we could all vote on it. We vote for people that are supposed to spend their time doing our best interest. In my district, it is so slanted everyone in local politics were from one party and ran unopposed. Not surprisingly, the majority voted for that party 100% of the time locally and nationally. Unfortunately, it is not the party I like. So, do I complain. You bet. So, should I run around knocking on doors every election and call my representives everytime they vote, even though I know the outcome before hand. You can do that for me if you want. I will be out fishing. Besides, I love to complain. Please don't take that away from me. If you did I would probably end up like Vince bleeding somewhere where I shouldn't be bleeding.
Oh, and Vince, if you read this you have both my best wishes and prayers for a quick recovery.

carbon monoxide, eh?

I just glanced at the sticker and thought it has something to do with 420...

I am not going to take sides here as you both make good points ... but Todd to think you can follow everything our goverment is doing and be involved is unrealistic, It would be a full time job at the least. Who's got time for that? unless you are in the goverment with your finger on the pulse.
At some point you have to trust those you have voted in to do the right thing. I feel if you voted in the first place you have the right to b!tch about the choices they make and try to keep up on whats important to you ...but some things are still going to sneek by. I do agree before you point a finger though have your facts straight.

Statistically speaking, death's and/or injury caused by this behavior have to be so low that it shouldn't have been at the top of anyone's "to do" list in our legislature. The list I am talking about is the "list" of human stupidity. Take the number of deaths/injuries caused by "teaking" and divide that by the people that register a boat plus their guests. The result has to be a very low number. It ended up making someone in the legistslature feel good about what they just did and now they can move onto something else. What a waste of resources......

To be consistent, If our state is going to issue stickers as a result of extremely low death rate bad behavior (combustion engines release gases that will kill you AND turning propellors will tear you up.....DUHH!!!!) then we all can name other acts of stupidity that cause more harm then this one. I bet this got the attention of someone in our legislature and he/she decided to champion it.......who is going to vote "No"? It was easier to vote yes and get it out of the way so they could get onto bigger and better things instead of argueing over this one (the bill that enacted the sticker).

Bottom line, I got my stickers.....I smiled when I saw what it said....stuck one on each of my boats......knew it was going to do very little to reduce the low number of deaths a year.....felt it did more to make someone feel he/she was doing their job.....and that next year my fee will be funding a sticker that I will be throwing away because I've already got two!

No, I didn't do any research except to voice my opinion on the matter.

"make it look like they are doing something. "
Just like WDFW with Sparky's law , knotless nets, etc. The CG boaters card.

We elect our representatives expecting common sense. We don't have the time to watch them like hawks. I work more hours than they do. Some see this stuff AS common sense.....what could it hurt......others, me, see this stuff as a colossal waste of time (theirs and mine) and money with a net result of zero. Besides, I kind of like darwinism which rids the world of idiots.

Is it only Washington state with this new sticker or does the entire US have it? You'd think motor manufacturers would have these placed in all boats to release themselves of any trouble or lawsuits from deaths resulting in Carbon Monoxide poisoning...

Seems lawsuits can be filed and won over just about anything. McDonalds and coffee for example...

Keith

This was explained to me ,unsolicited, by the nice lady at the tabs place in Longview.... Apparantly, the CO sticker has to be "visible to passengers" which Law Enforcement will need to verify. So ... if your freindly, neighborhood, LE Agent can't see that the sticker is visible to the passengers, from their own boat, then they will need to board your boat to inspect the sticker.

I don't have anything to hide ... but this patriot act type sh!+
P!$$eS me right off.

Or how about the marine drivers license that will be reguired of everyone but the PWC drivers??? - The "one" group that could benefit from the education the most.

As aquaholics, we need an organization that will alert us when this type of bull$hi+ is being legislated.

"As aquaholics, we need an organization that will alert us when this type of bull$hi+ is being legislated."

That I agree with wholeheartedly...aren't there any recreational boating organizations in Washington? My boats are all oar-powered and float down rivers, so I don't ever run into stuff like this...

Fish on...

Todd

I still think the "tsunami warning signs" that are all over the puget sound islands and lowlands are funny...Probably cost a few hundred dollars for each one to be made and then dug into the ground, and all they say is pretty much "Tsunami hazard zone. In case of an earthquake, go to higher ground."

I love the one where the guy break into a house and fall through the skylight and sues the owner of the house for having it be dangerous...

Too funny

Just put the stickers on the back side of the cowling and be done with it,It's just a sticker.Like said above,I'm surprised that the boat dealer or motor manufactur hasn't put them some where.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

Hear is some infromation you may want to look at on the subject. FYI, In the last two years there have been eight Co poisoning fatalities in Washington state. Last year a family of three and the companion of the families 11 year old child died at Dworshack that made national news.

I know it seems petty when you look at how many people die from CO in other activities but those are more publisized and are more recognized as a cause of CO poisoning. A vast amount of CO poisonings on boats go unreported.

There has been a significant amount or research done on Boating and CO poisoning by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) that has prompted safety orginizations to take a harder look at boating related CO poisoning.

Some good reading:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/coboating/

http://www.uscgboating.org/articles/boatingview.aspx?id=22

Dan

I think the stickers get in the way of natural selection. Time to repeal it, and thin the herd.

This is a state by state issue. Oregon has a law as does Califiornia. The stickers issued in the mail are for existing vessels. Manufacturers will be required to place these stickers on all new vessels .

Dan

There is an orginization in Washington State that publishes all of theses proposed legislative acts. It is the Recreational Boaters Assosiation of Washington, RBAW. Link:

http://www.rbaw.org

Dan

Wooly Bully...it is not a license and the PWC operators are also required to have the card.

My friend in California put his sticker next to the "No Bananas" and the" No Illegals on Board" stickers.

Well, guys...there ya go then...a group that should be keeping an eye on this stuff for you...I bet you can sign up for e-mail alerts, or newsletters, or whatever, and the RBAW will let you know when laws are proposed that may affect your boating enjoyment...then you can get in on the lawmaking before the fact and maybe have an effect on what the final outcome is.

Fish on...

Todd

What other opportunities are there for stickers to keep people from doing stupid things that kill? Let's start a list....here's one:

Need Sticker placed on:

1) The headboard of all beds as areobic activity kills more men who are out of shape than "Teaking".

Did not stick to the powder coating and came off first trip. I put it in my glove box and when Coast Guard on the big C Oregon side checked my boat I pulled it out and showed him. He did not know anything about the decal and rolled his eyes knowing I was from WA.

I think the only people that REALLY need to worry about it are the people that will have thier wakeboarding boats out on Lake Tapps or Lake Washington this summer.
(ie: place where the water cops will board you for a "safety & sobriety inspection" to use doublespeak)

So, since someone died here from being BF'd by a horse shouldn't there be a sticker on all horses?

i haven't gotten my tabs yet, but if i get a sticker, it's going in the trash.

Whoa...we have a serious rebel in our midst.

Fish on...

Todd

I'm sure you'll agree, Todd, that all lawyers should come with a warning label.

I don't know about "all lawyers", but this one should...might need a large size label to cover all the appropriate warnings.

Fish on...

Todd

"So, since someone died here from being BF'd by a horse shouldn't there be a sticker on all horses?"

Not that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.......even if you're the legislator that authored the bill.......

I'm gonna laugh when chum man comes back complaining about that ticket he gets...

I'm sure they will try and enforce it really hard for a few months, but then just be too hard to keep up after that...