Jack Salmon... coho or chinook?

Posted by: eyeFISH

Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 04:34 AM

Released this little dude today. What say ye, gentlemen?

Oh yeah, you too Aunty! ;\)
Posted by: Achewter

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 04:50 AM

The washed out gums of a jack King in fresh water. Teeth were pointy wern't they
Posted by: fish4brains

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 08:37 AM

Hybrid.
Posted by: Phoenix77

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:03 AM

It appears there was a little Miscegation goin' on out there. The hen must have been a SLUT, no I don't mean the South Lake Union Trolly.
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:07 AM

i went to cali and the Kings looked like that...but i have caught a few silvers lately with spots on the tail all over like a king..they are evolving to try to trick us...have you heard of the Chumpies?...hahaha...c
Posted by: Fish Whisperer

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:13 AM

"CHUMPIES" I love it.............. Only at the bar in CQ.
Posted by: Slab

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:31 AM

Without a doubt coho
Posted by: Neal M

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:37 AM

i said chinookie.
Posted by: TBJ

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:44 AM

I said coho because of the white gums and the white on the fins. I catch one or two of these mystery fish in a certain river I fish every fall for early winter run steelies. The chinook run is done when I catch them and the river has alot of coho in it at the time so I say ho.-TBJ
Posted by: Kid Sauk

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:56 AM

Coho, although the spots resemble those commonly found on 'nooks, but their ain't no ho like coho.

Let's see the tail Doc ;\)
Posted by: Kid Sauk

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:04 AM

Stam, if you're so confident, then I bet you a day as rowing b!tch if it's not a coho. Your boat if I'm right and you row all day. If I'm wrong, then it's my boat and I row you all day........so? You man enough to take the challenge? ;\) \:D
Posted by: SundayMoney

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:10 AM

Coho
Posted by: STRIKE ZONE

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:18 AM

Ho.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE
Posted by: stonefish

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:21 AM

Coho
Posted by: Dogfish

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:21 AM

Cohohoho
Posted by: docspud

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:35 AM

Caught something similar before and it took it as a jack king. The gums were a bit darker but still bleached out looking. See no reason to change my mind now. Jack king it is.
Posted by: Kid Sauk

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:55 AM

Sure you can pick the water, Stam............since you'll be rowing all day \:D Doh!

If it's a pink, then it nullifies the bet.
Posted by: Rocket Red

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:18 PM

I've been releasing the same kind of fish lately when I've been fishing for steelhead. I have always thought they were jack kings, and voted the same way. Wish we could see the tail, and also if you caught a jack silver and laid it next to it you would see the difference clearly.

I also know the river that TBJ is talking about, or one just like it . . . and have caught those wierd jack things while fishing for winter fish. They are built like footballs, and look just like little kings.
Posted by: thefishnfool

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:26 PM

Ho, ho ho

Tim
Posted by: IrishRogue

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:35 PM

I say coho as well, gumline. The strange thing is Chinook seems to be winning in the voting, but most of the people who posted a reply say Coho.
Posted by: What

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:43 PM

Kisutch
Posted by: Walkndadog

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:47 PM

"Micro-Jack"...Immature king that has only been in the salt one year and returned...1,000's come back to Clarks Creek in Puyallup...At least that's what my buddy says they are who works for the fisheries dept.
Posted by: Rocket Red

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:54 PM

Like I said I caught a fish that looked exactly like that, on the same system yesterday morning before work (mine was about 4# -a big one). When you see the whole fish, it is clear that it is a king. Stam is also correct about the way the silver jacks look this time of year, they don't have any spots at this point really, and are just black/grey over white. I will try and dig up some pictures tonight at home for proof.
Posted by: SKYSTEELHEAD

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 12:59 PM

Although the fish has white lower gum line but I don't remember Coho having big spots like that on its back.
I think it's a King jack...
Perhaps Smalma or Salmo G. can chime in on this?
Posted by: Kid Sauk

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 01:03 PM

Valid points for the fish I.D. so far guys, however, the pic is on the bank and judging by the brownish sludge on the rocks.........Quilcence silver or other small stream silver. Warmer water turns 'em fast. I've seen spots on silvers like that and that fish is a "tease".
Posted by: RiverMan

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 01:09 PM

Looks like a bleached gum chinook to me although I must admit that's a tough one!

RM
Posted by: OceanSun

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 01:10 PM

The shape of the spots and the color of the back gives it away as a nookie.
Posted by: slabhunter

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 01:52 PM

My first impression is coho. I'll go wth that.
Posted by: mreyns_tgl

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 01:53 PM

 Originally Posted By: OceanSun
The shape of the spots and the color of the back gives it away as a nookie.


Bingo
Posted by: baddawg

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 02:30 PM

gum line, coho. Spots chinook. The tail would be the deciding factor for me. If I had to make a guess based on the pic, I would go with chinook.
Posted by: The Moderator

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 02:35 PM

Hmmmm.

Looks like some bait for a Parker, if you ask me!

The picture of the fish has visible characteristics of both species.

I'd really like to see the tail before answering this question.

Hard to tell just how "white" those gums really are.

Spotting sure looks nookie to me.

Not going to play.
Posted by: 4Salt

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 02:35 PM

I don't think Doc would fish the Killscene... at least I hope he wouldn't... so I'm guessin' that fish was caught in a Chehalis trib known for havin' a few summer steelies which are the only GH fish open to target now.

Jack chinook.
Posted by: Terrapin

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 02:42 PM

Coho... It certainly looks like the King jacks we have been catching lately but I was thinking it was a trick question. I agree that the tail would help on the ID.

Terrapin
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 03:09 PM

It's a king, and I say so for the same reason that Stam did...I know where Doc fishes, the coho there are two-tone right now, and the Chinook are bronze like that the day they hit freshwater...

The tail would be a dead giveaway, but I'm not fooled by the "whitish" gums...that's a Chinook jack.

Too bad, really...I wanted to see Kid Squawk float the Green River Canyon with Stam...he'd have to order up a few sets of those Astronaut Diapers...

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: One Way

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 03:10 PM

I voted I want a verdict... I know it is a king
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 03:22 PM

 Originally Posted By: One Way
I voted I want a verdict... I know it is a king


To be honest, I have no verdict... that's why I made it a poll. I can be pretty opinionated when I KNOW I'm right. In this case, I really don't know, and I'm more inclined to do like most of our politicians... just waffle and call it a hybrid co-nook! Where's Parquito when you need him most?

I will post more pics tonight that will probably give most of you a very different impression about this fish. I sure know I was confused.
Posted by: Brewer

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 03:31 PM

last month i released a typical kalama dark king... this king had white gums. i should have pic'd it. but i just pulled the hook and released it. one other guy said that he had never seen or heard of a white gummed king.
Posted by: DriftWood

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 03:49 PM

chinook cuz of the spots and the color of the back. If it had ho coloring I would change my answer
Posted by: thefishnfool

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 04:30 PM

Some of the rivers that i fish have ho's that have those same markings and coloration but that could also be the angle that the pic is taken at. Interested in seeing the rest of the pics

Tim
Posted by: The Moderator

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 05:20 PM

 Originally Posted By: fishNphysician
Where's Parquito when you need him most?


...or Smalma...

...or Salmo G....

Show us some tail Doc! Show us some tail!

I'm inclined to say it is a nook for the reasons mentioned above, but I couldn't be sure unless I saw the tail.
Posted by: Hatch

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 05:25 PM

I'd say it's a HOmaphroNOOK. I can't honestly say that I've ever seen a coho with any spots on the pectoral fins.
Posted by: Rocket Red

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:00 PM

I bet it was a spinner. Probably a blue fox. I tell ya' I got one almost exactly like it yesterday on a #4 vibrax with a rusty hook and a chunk of orange tape on the blade with all the other colors worn off. I told him "Go tell your daddy I'm here". KING JACK, the silver jacks look completely different there this time of year. They are skinnier, they are two-tone, and they don't look like that fish.
Posted by: Batson

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:03 PM

This may sound Stupid but when in doubt Just smell it if it smells like a King and looks like a king then it is a King no Doubt about it King Slime smells ten times more fishy than a, Silver try it!
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:06 PM

" But officer.. I personally smelt this fish and I can say for certain....".
Posted by: TBJ

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:08 PM

I wish Smalma or Salmo G would chime in I am interested to find out as there are sure alot of know it alls responding. I have always wondered what these fish with the characteristics of both sub species of salmon are.-TBJ
Posted by: Neal M

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:13 PM

I'm sticking with Chinook. The back color and spots make me lean that way. It's not an easy one for sure.... How did it taste?
Posted by: Bucket/Good Sport

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:22 PM

[quote=fishNphysician I can be pretty opinionated when I KNOW I'm right. [/quote]

Something I hadn't noticed before
Posted by: MOSSYBACK

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 06:43 PM

I'm going out on a limb.... Atlantic Salmon
Posted by: Fish Killer

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 07:39 PM

tyee
Posted by: Jason Y

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 07:42 PM

It ain't no coho
Posted by: 4Salt

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 08:16 PM

Anybody see the pic in the latest STS for the article about the 3 different versions of events surrounding the catching of that big king near the Tr-Cities? Look at that close-up of the fish's head. The gums are white and it has the classic coho "hook-nose"... yet it's a high 30's upriver bright CHINOOK.

Just goes to show ya...
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 08:17 PM

I ain't no know it all. I need to see more of the fish. FNP takes fine photos, but that one doesn't yield enough for me to make a well informed ID.
Posted by: Eric

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 08:38 PM

Well.....going on what I remember from fisheries biology 101 in college and the thousands of hours over my life spent around these fish I voted nook' . Unless it's a hybrid(rare but it happens) there is only 1 species with larger, oval, non-round spots on the back and that is a chinook.

I don't buy the white gumline argument on this fish that would make it a coho. Many times smaller jacks have incomplete or inconsistent color on the gumline....especially nook' jacks.

As others said, a tail shot would be more conclusive.

That's my story and I'm stick'in to it! \:\)
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 09:01 PM

110% coho jack....

Keith
Posted by: Sky-Guy

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 09:13 PM

Spots and green back color scream nookie to me.
Posted by: Jaydee

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 09:55 PM

Chinook... Get a shot of the tail?
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:03 PM

I'll bet he did, but he's holding out on us!

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: Jaydee

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:08 PM

I was just trolling for a yes or no T-rip!
Posted by: Smalma

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 10:33 PM

like everyone else would like to see more! Much easier to ID with the fish in hand and a single photo can be ambiguous

Purposely waited until now to express my opinion to give others a chance to give their thoughts

However from I can see it is my opinion that it is not a Chinook. Color of gum/tongue aside if you held the jaw of a Chinook as shown in the photo I would expect to see some blood (and not the fish's).

Not all that uncommon to see spotted river coho like that and if I had to pick between coho and Chinook I would have to say coho. The beginning of a "button" on the snout and body color look like a maturing coho.

However there remains some doubt in the back of my mind that the fish might be a pink. The thumb is hiding how "pointy" the lower jaw might be and the teeth look small in the photo - a clearer view of the jaw and/or the tail would help answer the question.

FNP - A fun post and shows how easy it is to confuse all us so-called experts. Seems like there always are some fish around to challenge us.

Tight lines
Curt
Posted by: jandlfishingguide

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:00 PM

Coho Jack for sure. I caught lots of Silvers at Buoy Ten this year that had those big spots on their backs to make them look like Chinook but the white gum line gives it away.
Posted by: kevin lund

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:11 PM

Normally, but not always.......... A Chinook gill plate will bronze like the one in the picture. More often than not a coho will turn red or pink when a male matures. The fish is 100% male, but remains to be seen if it's a pink, coho, or king. The spots on it's back are too big for a coho jack.

My 2 pennys worth anyway.
Posted by: hohbomb73

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:15 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...


It appears to have teeth on it's tongue, which (I believe) rules it out for being a pink.
Posted by: Smalma

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:25 PM

Hohbomb -
I too debated whether the tongue had teeth or not and decided I could not say for sure from the picture. Which is why I said coho but there was that little doubt.

Sure would like a clearer picture

Doc?

Tight lines
Curt
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:33 PM

Well if you must know, I voted coho on the poll when I first set it up. But unlike you, I had the benefit of having the little devil in hand. But like so many of you, I was rather perplexed by those big-a$$ king spots. I still think there's a good chance it's a hybrid.

I purposely posted the composition that would bounce the flash away from the camera to bring out the bronze undertones of the skin. The brown background reflecting off the scales also adds to the gold/bronze "tule-esque" skin hue. (Damn I sound like one of those hi-falutin' Spey dudes describing a single-malt Scotch!)

Like I said, more pic later tonight... gonna have dinner with my daughter first.

More pics to come
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:45 PM

i did pic coho...and i did catch a fish in the salt very similair to this fish, i let it go without a pic..but it kept me guessing for a while..i would not have kept it anyway because it was small...but i did go to cali about 4 or 5 years ago to fish the king run going to the Sacramento river and Delta...(in Benicia) i belive that that is where i caught my first white King...(had to visit mom and grandpa) i remember wanting to let it go and everyone saying NO thats a King...i was saying, No looks like a Coho..(most places in Cali i guess you cant keep Coho) they later told me that they were White kings...that was the first time i knew of them...i never really looked at the one pic i had of that fish, and have no idea where it is...im sure my mom has it...hahahaha....but i did choose Coho...and still think its a coho...the i think if it was a jack chinook the teeth would be larger and sharper...
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:48 PM

oh yeah and i forgot...if you look at the pic..it looks like the fish was bonked...and in the cooler or something...it has a line to it...you know how a fish looks like it has been up against another fish in some areas, the colors change...it looks like the top part of the fish color has changed to to being in the cooler, or something touching it, or half out of the water for a while...me 2 cent...c
Posted by: ParaLeaks

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/26/07 11:54 PM

Chinook was my first impression and voted same PRIOR to all this confusion. \:\)
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 12:22 AM

oh wait a min...he said he released it...c
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 12:24 AM

 Originally Posted By: lovetofish365
oh yeah and i forgot...if you look at the pic..it looks like the fish was bonked...and in the cooler or something...it has a line to it...you know how a fish looks like it has been up against another fish in some areas, the colors change...it looks like the top part of the fish color has changed to to being in the cooler, or something touching it, or half out of the water for a while...me 2 cent...c


Bonked?

That fish is very much alive... the color change is the portion of the fish above the water line. HINT: It's still in the water, dude.
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 12:31 AM

yeah...figured that out..but still looks like that water line you get in a cooler...plus ive been home for a couple hours, drinkin and playing on the internet..hahaha...c
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 01:33 AM

 Originally Posted By: Kid Sauk
Stam, if you're so confident, then I bet you a day as rowing b!tch if it's not a coho. Your boat if I'm right and you row all day. If I'm wrong, then it's my boat and I row you all day........so? You man enough to take the challenge? ;\) \:D


I said 110% Coho.... Wonder if Stam would take that bet with me too, I'd like to be rowed down a river someday..... Always seems when I'm with the buddies I get stuck on the sticks....

Keith
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 01:54 AM

Keith,

I'll getcha out in April if yer willin'...just don't bring your buddy from down yer ways who thinks "nads" means running a sled up an open waterway with nine inches of water...I hate it when people wig out in the drifter going through rocks and trees!

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: Ikissmykiss

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 03:05 AM

I haven't looked inside a salmons mouth to identify the species forever. The big oval spots scream Chinook....I've never seen spots like that on a Coho before...

Doc, I'm sure this is not the first one of these (hybrid looking Chinnho) you have caught. Have you ever taken scale samples and sent them to WDFW? It could be interesting.

Ike
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 03:05 AM

 Originally Posted By: Todd
Keith,

I'll getcha out in April if yer willin'...just don't bring your buddy from down yer ways who thinks "nads" means running a sled up an open waterway with nine inches of water...I hate it when people wig out in the drifter going through rocks and trees!

Fish on...

Todd


You lost me there bud.... But if I have the time free and not out slaughtering the early Spring Chinook I'll certainly take you up on the offer.... I'd love to fish a few of them tribs you fish, there's some nice big steelhead there.... Can I bring some eggs?? ;\)

Keith
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 03:36 AM

OK, from the hoochie rvrfshr spinner shot, this bright fish with white gums (both above and below) screams coho.

In the lip-grip shot, taken at an angle that mutes the chrome, the spots scream chinook.

I didn't think to take a close-up of the tail. What you see is what you get. Don't think there are too many spots in that caudal fin. The fin that gets my attention is the anal fin.... it has that pale spot at the distal end of the long leading ray. It also comes to a point at that spot. Very chararcteristic of coho. Chinook tend to have that broader based anal fin with a shorter leading edge an a somewhat flared trailing edge.

Posted by: Smalma

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 08:01 AM

Doc -
Thanks for the other picutres.

Clearly not a pink!

I'll stick with coho.

Tight lines
Curt
Posted by: Kid Sauk

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 09:48 AM

Thank you Doc, this was a helluva thread! \:D

Let's all join in chorus and sing to Stam:

Row row row YOUR BOAT
Gently down the streeeeam........... ;\) \:\)
Posted by: DrifterWA

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 10:10 AM

Gota go "chinook". Have caught 100's of both silvers and chinook jacks, during my 40 yrs. on Grays Harbor, but for sure the 1 indicator is smell.......ugh to king jacks in my boat.

Hope everyone has a great river salmon season????? Let's not be praying for "early rains", or it could be another 2006 year.
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 10:48 AM

Yep still 110% coho jack...

"Merrily, Merrily, Merrily, Merrily life is but a dream...."

I know Stam would have took the bet so I win... Where you rowing me Stam? You want to row me and the Kid together?? We can stand up front and catch fish all day...

Keith
Posted by: TBJ

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 11:24 AM

I still say Coho and the new pics are even more convincing, Great thread BTW!-TBJ
Posted by: B-RUN STEELY

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 11:50 AM

Don't put things like that in my head.. Two guys one on each oar.. what would happen ??? I'll let ya know next Tuesday when I get back
Posted by: Rocket Red

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 12:18 PM

DrifterWA has fished the basin for 30 years and said it was a KJ. I the oblong spots keep telling me KJ too.

I searched and searched to find if I had any pictures of Coho or chinook jacks from the basin but could only find one picture that had any jacks in it. They are all Coho jacks. The pic is unfortunately fuzzy because I had to scan an old film picture. This was taken in the end of September when the river used to be open then.



Here is an attempt at a zoom in. Notice that the coho jack spots are round, not oblong.



I am going to try and get one of each on Monday and put this to bed, for real.
Posted by: Irie

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 12:43 PM

 Originally Posted By: Neal M
i said chinookie.


My guess too.
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 01:08 PM

It's a nice fish, either way...but I'm still going with Chinook.

Keith, who was the dude who made a post titled "Got Nads?" and showed his "gnarly" spot he was going to run his sled? The "gnarly" spot was wide open fairly shallow water...

It was a jab at him...if he thinks that's "nads", then don't bring him along on a float...he's likely to get a little riled up when he sees the places that driftboats and inflatables go... \:\)

By all means bring your crutch...I mean, yer eggs :)...but you'll have to spend time hugging them at camp, since you can't use 'em on the river!

by Stam:

"or we can call it a hybrid/draw and just go fishing without the crown."

A voice of reason calls out from the darkness...

Doc, nice thread, and nice spinner! I can't wait until Joe sees that pic...he gets all worked up when I insist on screwing with every single one of his creations, and the Rvrfshr Hootchie Spinner might get his blood boiling faster and harder than anything else!

(I think it's the fact that it works so well is what really riles him up!)

Glad to see you're putting it to use already...any other grabs on it?

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 01:21 PM

I can't beleive people are still calling the fish a chinook jack... Look at the head (nose) and wrist on the tail and the slenderness of the body, the color of the fins and lateral line. Who gives a rip about the spots on it, I've caught plenty of coho jacks that have lots of dots that run together to form what looks to be squigglies...

Stam, I'm dissapointed in you... I thought I was going to have my first front seat ride without having to row a little in a DB in over 15 years..

Todd- trust me, I've caught my share of steelhead with out bait, but I've only caught one with a PW...

Keith
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 01:29 PM

"but I've only caught one with a PW... "

Sounds like the beginning of a plan... \:\)

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 01:57 PM

You wuss.

If you called it a nook, then it's a nook...........even if it's not.

WTF?
Posted by: 4Salt

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 02:53 PM

I'm changin' my vote. Based on the new evidence... coho.
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 03:09 PM

Flip floppin' like John Kerry.
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 03:35 PM

 Originally Posted By: AuntyM
Hey, if you can't ID the danged fish you catch, none of you guys should be out there fishing!


Moral of the story... if in doubt, RELEASE!
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 06:17 PM

 Quote:
as long as I'm rowing you might as well jump in the back too!


Parker's got nuthin' on me !

I don't even have to try and a whored seat falls right into my lap.

You're not inviting me along just so you can drown me, are you?
Posted by: Jerry Garcia

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 07:14 PM

I think that Stam thinks he has too many rods and that you had a knack for helping rods disappear on boats.
Posted by: bonkit

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 07:15 PM

Atlantic ? Brother caught one at Southworth a few years back..Confirmed Atlantic
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 07:33 PM

 Quote:
you had a knack for helping rods disappear on boats.


Well, I HAVE been known................
Posted by: STRIKE ZONE

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 08:01 PM

Still say coho.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE


Let them eat it,It's there last meal.
Posted by: The Moderator

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 09:46 PM

 Originally Posted By: Dan S.
Parker's got nuthin' on me !


I guess this Ho is all used up. I've lost my touch.

I'm glad im in Boston now, or I'd *really* feel like crap!

\:\(
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 11:10 PM

 Originally Posted By: parker
 Originally Posted By: Dan S.
Parker's got nuthin' on me !


I guess this Ho is all used up. I've lost my touch.

I'm glad im in Boston now, or I'd *really* feel like crap!

\:\(


Parker,

You're losing it... You've caught how many fish with me over the years? You know what a king jack looks like........

Keith
Posted by: Kid Sauk

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 11:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: stlhdr1
I can't beleive people are still calling the fish a chinook jack...


Keith


I agree, Keith.

Stam, there is no winner or looser if you think about it. Either way we get to fish and now Keith wants to front seat it? I think that's a great idea and I'll split the rowing with you, Stam, so Keith can have a real day off in a driftboat.

Justin
Posted by: What

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 11:23 PM

Hootchie coho... Thank goodness for the williams.
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/27/07 11:40 PM

Any port in a storm, eh, rvfshr?

Say "hi" to The Williams for me...

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 12:22 AM

still think its a Coho...c
Posted by: coho1234

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 01:57 AM

I'd bet my left nut that its a coho!
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 02:21 AM

With all of the collective knowledge posted on this thread, it proves only one thing... OK two...

1) A bunch of you don't know what the f**k you're talking about.

2) The rest of you just got lucky.

I just hope that if any of y'all come out my way to fish in the next month, enough of you can figure out which big-spotted, olive/bronze/gold tinted fishies ought to be released to prevent fishing deep into escapement.
Posted by: FishNg1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 02:47 AM

Geez Doc, don't you ever go to sleep (looks whos talking). ;\)
Only a few more days now, too bad I won't get to practice at LaPush this weekend with the big ocean predicted.

Steve
Posted by: Brewer

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 03:26 AM

this is a after thought, but came up with it at work this evening. some thoughts or members, said fish was a hybrid. correct me if'en i'm wrong. hybrids are sterile, right? meaning do not breed or spawn... if this was a hybrid it had no bizzness returning to a river. it would have stayed in the salt just getting bigger.
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 10:57 AM

When the species are related closely enough and the habitat they occupy has considerable overlap, the sterile hydrid vigor theory you speak of may NOT hold true.

I believe there are naturally-spawning rainbow-cutthroat hybrids in some of the most famous SW tailwater trout fisheries.
Posted by: milt roe

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 11:26 AM

We had chinook/pink hybrids returning to the UW hatchery back in the 1970s. They called them "chinks" and they were sexually mature, but perhaps not fertile. No reason this one couldn't be a coho/chin hybrid. I saw an identical fish (clipped) last weekend from the S Sound.
Posted by: slabhunter

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/28/07 04:29 PM

I hear you. That first image shouted Net Pen stray.
Posted by: Queets guy

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 01:39 AM

My vote goes toward chinook becuase them spots on the back are rather large for a ho.

Jake
Posted by: Krijack

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 12:39 PM

You Know, The spots on top of the head look a lot like an alantic, but the ones on the back look like a king. Every Alantic I have seen has those big round spots on its cheek. Rather than a King/Coho it looks a little like a king /alantic mix, which could make sense since any pen stray would have a hard time finding a mate. Otherwise I would actually take the logical conclusion and call it a coho. Really does look like it could be a hybrid though.
I just saw a WDFW poster that claims the definitive character between chinook and coho is the gum line, so I would say its a definite keeper under the states eyes (when open). Since it would ahv eto be a jack anyway if it was a king, I wouldn't feel real bad about keeping it anyways (again, if open for coho).
Posted by: D3Smartie

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 12:54 PM

for the record, that is not an atlantic.
Posted by: cheapskate

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 01:34 PM

 Originally Posted By: blue water pro
That is a nice looking fish. Best identifying characteristic of a Chinook is teeth set in black gums. This fish has white gums. Chinook also have heavily spotted tail fins and I don't see that. This must be Coho unless the Alantic - Salmo Salar have white gums. Does anyone know what color their gums are? The Atlantic salmon have escaped from offshore fish farms and are a threat to the native Pacific salmon populations. It could be Alantic but I think Coho. No way Chinook.


Atlantic Salmon usually (always?) have big black spots on their gill plates. These spots are not present in the gill plates of the fish in the pic
Posted by: ClearCreek

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 08:08 PM

The fish appears to have a shortened opercle (gill flap) which can be a symptom of stress - being raised in a hatchery for instance. Could just be the angle of the photo, but it looks shortened to me.

Is it possible the fish could have been raised under stressful conditions?

ClearCreek
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 08:23 PM

Good observation CC... it most certainly had an underdeveloped operculum on that side... the other side was perfectly intact with no exposed gill filaments.
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 10:08 PM

Yeah.

I noticed the operculum thing too.

No, really.
Posted by: GBL

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 11:37 PM

Scales, Spots, color--Jack King
Posted by: TBJ

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/29/07 11:46 PM

It's a coho jack, the experts have weighed in give it up.-TBJ
Posted by: Neal M

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 12:02 AM

Hehehhehe... Dan said orperculum...
No way in hell that thing is an atlantic. I'm still saying chinook Jack, although the new pics make me wonder just a bit. Don't much care what the experts say on this one. Good post FNP.
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 12:51 AM

How do you make a chinook jack out of that fish... That's it. Tomorrow I'm going to take a picture of a king jack when we land one. It should help solve the question....

By the way, what's our fearless leader say it is?? Bob??

Keith
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 01:38 AM

 Originally Posted By: TBJ
It's a coho jack, the experts have weighed in give it up.-TBJ


If it were that clearcut, I would have never bothered posting the pic. or I would have posted this one instead:



Over 250 votes and so far it's about 3:2 chinook.
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 01:45 AM

Nice humpy!

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 01:25 PM

Damn! I thought I had that one...

Back to the drawing board.

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: Dan S.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 01:53 PM

I think we oughta form a committee.

We could have meetings every other Tuesday night in Colville or another convenient location, and discuss what can be done to solve our inability to come to a conclusion about the identity of the fish.

After several months of meetings with opportunities for public input and statements from representatives of the commercial gillnetting industry, the tribal gillnetters association, and a burger-flipper from downtown Cathlamet, we will forward our findings to WDFW.

Then they'll identify the fish as the one we DIDN'T decide upon.

It'll be great.
Posted by: Todd

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 01:56 PM

"Then they'll identify the fish as the one we DIDN'T decide upon...."

...followed by closing the entire region to sportfishing in an effort to protect the unidentified fish, but allow commercial fishing "test fisheries" every day for 21 hours to chart the movements and viability of the unidentified fish.

Fish on...

Todd
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 02:01 PM

 Originally Posted By: Dan S.
I think we oughta form a committee.

We could have meetings every other Tuesday night in Colville or another convenient location, and discuss what can be done to solve our inability to come to a conclusion about the identity of the fish.

After several months of meetings with opportunities for public input and statements from representatives of the commercial gillnetting industry, the tribal gillnetters association, and a burger-flipper from downtown Cathlamet, we will forward our findings to WDFW.

Then they'll identify the fish as the one we DIDN'T decide upon.

It'll be great.


Damn I don't care who you are, that [censored] was funny.

The hell of it is that's EXACTLY how it would come down.
Posted by: fish4brains

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 02:23 PM

The result of said meetings will be a smaller mesh size during netting on the Chehalis. Kind of like what happened to the Queets SRC about 25 yrs ago.
Posted by: the machinist

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 05:42 PM

I vote for Chinook jack, the spots, color & body thickness influenced me
Posted by: Jason Y

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 06:04 PM

Page 15, its still a chinook.

To bad we can't get 15 pages of steelhead pics from the past.

I will have to agree with the Doc, Dan S is pretty funny
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 06:06 PM

Coho jack............ It's hard to believe that people call that a nookie...

Keith
Posted by: Salmo g.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 06:36 PM

The latter photos have coho written on them.
Posted by: lovetofish365

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 08:03 PM

that is really funny stuff...
but i still say coho..c
Posted by: D3Smartie

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 09/30/07 08:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: Neal M
Hehehhehe... Dan said orperculum...
No way in hell that thing is an atlantic. I'm still saying chinook Jack, although the new pics make me wonder just a bit. Don't much care what the experts say on this one. Good post FNP.


maybe you should ask alex... i bet, unlike his father, he would get the correct answer.
good thing we fish together all the time so that you have an idea what you catch... ;\)
Posted by: The Catcherman

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/01/07 12:47 AM

Body size and color are often the least accurate in determining species. The main reason to rule out pink is scale size as pinks have very tiny scales compared to the rest of the salmon. While I admit the spotting pattern is more typical of Chinook, I have caught coho with similar spotting pattern as this fish. Three characteristics that sway me away from Chinook are the white gum line, lack of profuse spotting and silver pigmentation in the tail, and the anal fin is much smaller than a Chinook. Based on these reasons I vote for coho.
Posted by: VHawk.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/01/07 04:33 AM


It's a chinook x coho hybrid.
Posted by: fish4brains

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/01/07 08:34 AM

That was my vote too, 4th post.
Posted by: VHawk.

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/01/07 02:04 PM



I'd read about coho x chinook crossbreeds in the wild. And the guys back New York state raise them in hatcheries. I've got a dispute with IGFA over that issue as well. I won't renew my membership with them 'cause the current world record coho is in my most humble opinion is a hybrid. After 100 years of sportfishing silvers from Oregon to Alaska, the world record coho happens to come from New York? From a drainage that has been stocked with hybrids?

I'm bitter about it, it makes my chances at an all-tackle record pretty slim.


VHawk
Posted by: Jerry Garcia

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/01/07 03:12 PM

Get over it Vince!
Posted by: Sebastes

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/02/07 11:04 PM

Based on this underwater photo I took in the Straits some years ago, I'm saying Coho. Spots on the head, but more wormy lines on the back.

I caught a salmon in Wrangell last year that looked like it could be a cross between a Sockeye or Chum, but with spots on its back and thought it was a Silver until I looked at the photos. I'm still guessing on that fish and will post an image later.

Here's the Coho shot I did in the Straits.
Posted by: dustin2

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 12:58 AM

Ok, so I have been reg. on this site for almost a year and have never really introduced myself. My name is Dustin and I grew up on Whidbey Island and have been sport fishing in the rivers for about 2 years and have fished in the salt around Whidbey all my life. I’m now in my second year of collage at the University of Washington and I think that I might major in some kind of engineering. I just got done with my summer jobs a few weeks ago and I’m hoping to be around here more often. So here is my post for this thread, I have a salmon that looks just like these other fish and don’t know what it is, I caught it in the straits about 2 weeks ago and it was about 5 lbs, its a Coho or an Atlantic, it was covered in sea lice and was released.

Dustin



Posted by: Sebastes

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 01:22 AM

Based on this underwater photo I took in the Straits some years ago, I'm saying Coho. Spots on the head, but more wormy lines on the back.

I caught a salmon in Wrangell last year that looked like it could be a cross between a Sockeye or Chum, but with spots on its back and thought it was a Silver until I looked at the photos. I'm still guessing on that fish and will post an image later.

Here's the Coho shot I did in the Straits.
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 03:19 AM

 Originally Posted By: Sebastes
Based on this underwater photo I took in the Straits some years ago, I'm saying Coho. Spots on the head, but more wormy lines on the back.

I caught a salmon in Wrangell last year that looked like it could be a cross between a Sockeye or Chum, but with spots on its back and thought it was a Silver until I looked at the photos. I'm still guessing on that fish and will post an image later.

Here's the Coho shot I did in the Straits.


That's on the outside of the mouth, your a snagger........

Keith
Posted by: Sebastes

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 04:56 PM

No, I just took the photo. It was another boat that hooked this fish. I don't know if it was retained.

It does appear to be hooked outside the mouth, but doubt that it was a case of snagging since this is a saltwater situation and the fish was hooked trolling a spoon off a downrigger.

It may be that it was caught in the corner of the mouth and the treble pulled further back as the fish was being fought, or the fish slammed the lure and the treble hook buried itself.

But I honestly don't know.
Posted by: hunter 333

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 06:03 PM

neither its a steelhead.
Posted by: ripple

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 09:10 PM

spots on the tail? upper half only?
Posted by: Neal M

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 10:15 PM

seb,
he was joking.... the fish in your pic is obviously a dolly though! anyone would know that....
Posted by: Neal M

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/03/07 10:30 PM

now if he tells you the fish would have been hooked in the throat had you been fishing UEC take him seriously.... does that stuff work in the salt? \:\)
I had a very good day last week fishing your cure Kieth. the kings were gobblin it up.
Posted by: Mingo

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/04/07 09:47 AM

 Originally Posted By: Todd
"Then they'll identify the fish as the one we DIDN'T decide upon...."...followed by closing the entire region to sportfishing in an effort to protect the unidentified fish, but allow commercial fishing "test fisheries" every day for 21 hours to chart the movements and viability of the unidentified fish.Fish on...Todd


hilarious but true.....

All this debate is silly......anyone with half a brain would know that fish is a hybrid between a mud eel and a chocolate starfish.
Posted by: rtturbo

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/04/07 03:54 PM

Doesn't the Atlantic Salmon kind of look like that? Just through that out there, but I think coho
Posted by: stlhdr1

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/04/07 04:23 PM

 Originally Posted By: Neal M
now if he tells you the fish would have been hooked in the throat had you been fishing UEC take him seriously.... does that stuff work in the salt? \:\)
I had a very good day last week fishing your cure Kieth. the kings were gobblin it up.


Great to hear that Neal, I wish I had the opportunity to come up to your neck of the woods to do some fishing. We sure had a blast up there about 3 years ago this time of year. We caught tons of kings and silvers.

I'm headed out for a 6 day deer/elk muzzleloader hunt so my mind will be off fishing for a few days...

Keith
Posted by: ramprat

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/05/07 08:03 PM

Jack Chinook, Have caught many of the over the years.
Ramprat
Posted by: fish4brains

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/05/07 11:17 PM

It's a Chum/Coelacanth hybrid.
Posted by: eyeFISH

Re: Jack Salmon... coho or chinook? - 10/11/07 01:43 AM

OK one more big-spotted light-gummed jack from the same system...

Whadday'all think now?



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Well here's the full body shot that pretty well confirms that it's a coho: