CAUGHT RED HANDED

Went out early to check our pots. Saw two boats by them. Went straight out to em and they got caught......pulling not their pots. Tribal boats. Yelled em they tried running off, I chased em circled em and chased going around em back to Camano Head where they continued back to their land. They were loading up their commercial tribal boats with our crab. WN0252 is the numbers on one of the boats. Other may have been unmarked. They were ducking and running....bastards.

"Red" handed.

Who have you reported this to?

Yep, called it in. Todd and Oneway were with me. They got the message.

Nice job!

Thank you

Nice work!

In lieu of using them for crab bait, I hope the judge gives them some hard time or at least revokes their commercial license for life. Don't get to catch these POS often, needs to be a harsh example.

Tribal boats, unbelievable. They just can't get enough.

WOW,like said above "RED" handed.Good luck,
SZ

Good job Rico...I'd like to know the status of this situation as it plays out, but I have a sneaky hunch nothing will be done to the perps.......

Probably just taking their 50%, plus subsistence and ceremonial allotment. Maybe you'll get an invite to the potlatch. Good you got the vessel number, did you get any pics of the boat or the perps?

That's why I carry a box of lipton in my trunk. Never know when someone is going to deserve a good tea bagging.

I know what to do. go to their casino and win all their money!

That's called Forgone Opportunity Richard.

For you were gone, and we had the opportunity to steal your crab.

Don't they get 50% of each pot? I am sure they only took their share out of your pot.

Fish and Wildlife is on the case. They have called back and are on it.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! I feel better already... I think

I was never interested in a "IPhone"....but after watching what my youngest son and wife can do with thier "IPhone4"....I'm going to get the "IPhone5" when it comes out.....

I'm not super techie but I can sure see where cam, pic, and send to different parties while I'm right out on the river...could sure come in handy....

Good job.........hope they get more than a slap on the hand?????

What kind of boat was it?

Aluminum commercial crabbing boat with an aluminum skiff type boat with it, possibly used in seining. The big boat was 24 to 28 feet, and fully decked commercially with totes on board that they were putting the crab into. They had a couple sport pots on deck of the little boat and one commercial pot on top of the roof of the center console of the big boat. They were completely ducking as I was harrassing them, circling them, rodeoing them up while telling them what I though. Unfortunately my good phone broke on Monday so I could not get pics of em. I'm gonna start checking my pots early more often. This happened at 6, while it was barely light. I'm assuming they purchased the nice boat from a regular commercial crabber cuz I don't think the natives need WN #'s. Not sure about that though. I do know they had crab in their totes. Wonder who they are selling them to? Oneway Howard was holding on for dear life as we chased em off. The big boat was pretty nice, big covered center center console.

Thanks...I had an aluminum skiff (tribal by looks of the POS driving it) do the same to me this past winter crab season off of Edmonds. They stole one pot and probably didn't see the other.

Couldn't make out any #'s so was a lost cause for me.

I hope you nail those bastards.

That's awesome. . .I fantasize about catching somebody doing that with my pots. Hope they get theirs,

fb

I'm curious if there even is any penalty for a treaty tribal fisherman stealing crab from someone else's pot. There may not be any.

Sg

No idea about a penalty but fish and wildlife claimed to be very interested in this, so much so they've called back twice. And I'm pretty sure they thought we were crazy.

Good Luck is all I can say.

Bass turds.... dirty bass turds!

They probably called you back twice trying to decide what to charge you with for harassing those poor tribal members.

Hopefully they get the book thrown at them.....


Fishy

These a-holes have been out raiding in the early morning fog. Camano residents have seen that particular boat doing this before. Boy are they in trouble now! Wdfw and tribal fisheries will probably fine em a whole $50!! That's the problem right there! Time for vigilante justice. Wrist rockets with 6oz. balls to the hull from shore in the fog from now on! Warning! People crabbing to the south of edmonds marina have been getting pots raided and stolen.

No, They just play? dumb, ignorant and get a slap from tribal enforcement. Wdfw enforcement has no jurisdiction on tribal members. I wouldn't risk repercussions.

Let me paint a more complete picture. Todd and Richard and I meet at first light. The water in the harbor is calm, we go around the break and the chop is significant. We were just cruising comfortably along, until Richard spots the boats. Then sees them take off, we go to full throttle. He is yelling at them from a mile out. Heads them off, we are riding the V of the boat wakes at screaming fast speed. At that point I was wishing I was wearing a life jacket. There was not a chance in hell of taking photos. it was holding on with both hands and bracing. We drove circles around them, Richard was pissed and they were cowering. They got the message load and clear. I bet it keeps them away a day or 2. I am glad there were no firearms aboard. Some 2 oz sinkers would have been handy. I have never had any direct negative experiences with Indians, I recognize thief's are theifs, it does not matter the color of their skin. But this does nothing to improve the general image. Any which way it was an exciting start to the morning

One Way,

You paint a sobering view of your outing and I for one am glad that you stated that a thief is just that in any skin color.

Using the actions of several rogue members to castigate all Tulalips as such is a disservice. The Tulalips are committed to enhancing our salmon and steelhead fisheries and have done through work on their own reservation and nearby lands, developing habitat for juvenile fish.

Glad that no-one was hurt and hopefully these thieves will get the justice they deserve.

Fishy

I guarantee you that whoever the buyer is is not a tribal member and they are just as bad. And I guarantee you more crab have been stolen from the common drunk idiot look for some free crab. But this is who we caught.

If WDFW doesn't give you any satisfaction, call the police.

As far as I know, theft is a crime no matter WHO is doing it. A tribal member can't rob you and get away with it any more than anyone else can.

Call and file a police report.

I called the cops too.

Good move.

Unlike WDFW, the police don't really care what nation you're from if you're a thief.

It is the only time in my life when I was louder and had more to say than Todd Ripley. World famous pink worm Steelheader, pink slayer, massive hook setter, and the man who has more available words to say on a daily basis at a high volume than a fake boobed Fox News correspondent.

Just three words: kamikaze, jihadi, Bond

Would have guaranteed you an exciting end to the morning...

Addicted, just wondering do the natural boobed Fox news ladies have less to say? Has this been thoroughly studied and documented?

I believe they might have less to say. However, the natural boobed, possibly hairy arm pitted women on MSNBC might have as much if not more to say than the faked boob fox correspondents. I will try to have more and better results for you nap loving Vedder after further investigation. I've decided that Todd should be on some news channel, wouldn't matter which one, cuz he would not even need a point of view to be the most heard correspondent.

Good tip and absolutely right!

Fishy

Heard or hated?

had 3 pots stolen in A9 this year... Not a huge deal, but the look in my little nephew's eyes is enough to make it a huge deal.

Dear D-Bag pot thief, Thanks for teaching a young person what it feels like to be robbed. awesome.

Sounds like a compliment

Mr. Richard, need I remind of a weekend on the Umpqua, while you and a bottle of loudmouth ran roughshod for hours and hours?

Speaking of roughshod...I'd like to drive my van over the top of those f'n poachers...and, like many, I suspect no one will do anything about it...but now that the perps are id'd, I wouldn't be surprised to see some vigilante justice by the locals, they don't cotton too well to people stealing their pots and crabs, especially when they are likely going to turn around and sell the crabs on the black market.

Love to find the POS who buys them from them...stolen crabs, out of season.

Fish on...

Todd

good work fellas!

Todd, the best part of that night in Oregon was when my wife told you to quit responding to me in hopes that I would stop talking. Quite funny indeed.

This last Friday morning started a bit exciting, but turned out to be a fine day.

Island County Sherrif called back today, but nothing has really happened.

I called WDFW about tribal members netting on days they weren't suppose to be netting. The very nice WDFW women told me to call the tribe and complain, "for whatever good that will do you" was her comment.

Rico

Give us the name and phone # of the person handling this and we can call in frequently and politely to ask what is taking place....you know how that squeaky wheel works.

If nothing is done, I think that with Marsha having had other complaints, and the actual eyewitness accounts would make this prime for a good editorial or "ask Jesse" type media. The fact that they had no business being on the water, are stealing crabs and pots, and that they are deemed untouchable would make for a good sound bite. On a side note, I wonder what Billy Frank thinks about this. I think I will send him an email with the link. While every one has slime bags in their family, defending them is a whole different story and leaves you just as hated for their actions.

PM sent

I recall a similar situation a couple of years ago involving one or more Tulalip tribal members where there were enough such incidents reported that law enforcement did a fly over of the suspect's property and documented enough information to convince the appropriate authorities to do a search. Again, my recollection is that they found a number of recreational pots with owners' names still affixed. I don't recall the outcome if it was ever made public.

As mentioned earlier in this thread the real question is who is buying this presumably illegally taken crab? Seems it would be much easier for LE to work from information received from the thief than from following paperwork from the retailer back to the wholesaler which is how they recently uncovered a Tulalip crabber selling to a commercial buyer and neither of them submitting the necessary paperwork to document the catch. This was in the magnitude of tens of thousands of pounds of crab that was not applied to the tribal share and ultimately was over and above the total agreed upon harvestable poundage.

Sale of illegally taken crab would seem to be a violation of the Lacey Act of 1900 (Federal) in addition to a variety of State laws. The Lacey Act most notably prohibits trade in wildlife, fish, and plants that have been illegally taken, transported or sold.

So far as the actual thefts go, taking pots and the crabs that are in them, this should not be a tribal/non-tribal issue...it's a crime. When tribal members are off the reservation and commit a crime, they are under the jurisdiction of whomever's territory they're on...in this case, it should be the Island County Sheriff.

I got the numbers, and we called it in. We can ID the boat easily.

Fish on...

Todd

The Lacey Act kicks in when a federal boundary is crossed. Usually, it is a state line or international border, but it could be argued for a federal boundary within a state (Forest Service, BLM, National Park, or a tribal reservation). Unless it has changed, there is/was a $250 value threshold that had to be exceeded.

States can have their own statutes on the dealing of illegally taken/sold wildlife.

For commercial fisheries violations, take a look at sections 77.15.110, 560, 565, 568, 570,620, 630, and 640 in the link to the WDFW enforcment statutes below:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15

Todd, no argument from me. Certainly the appropriate authority for reporting this crime is the Island County Sheriff's Department. And the difficulty they will have is jurisdiction in accessing tribal land to obtain any evidence. Hence the Lacey Act and Federal jurisdiction comment.

Frankly, I am very tired as a recreational crabber of being a member of a group which is characterised by the commercial fishers (and one Commissioner) as scofflaws; a perception reinforced by certain members of WDFW LE when quoting recreational violation rates to the press when those rates (if supportable) are really violations by targeted (that is, not random) recreational crabbers. The State Auditor's Office in its written report on its audit of the WDFW Puget Sound Dungeness crab management program made note of the purported recreational violation rate and clearly indicated that it could not be applied to the recreational fishery as a whole as LE's efforts were not random.

Recent data pulled together and released informally by WDFW LE shows numerous serious commercial violations (both tribal and non-tribal fishers as well as buyers) involving huge poundages of crab. So where is the coverage on those violations (rhetorical)?

Bushbear, given how strongly the tribes have played on their sovereignty it would seem that a good case could be made that the Lacey Act does apply if the theft and subsequent sale crossed the reservation boundary. Doesn't take too many crab to reach a value of $250.00 especially if it is the ultimate retail value (and crab being sold through Vancouver and shipped live to Asia for $42.00 a crab retail as has been reported).

And, in summary, we finished up another great summer crab season this week-end in Area 8-2. Large numbers of females and just short males in the pots and just enough legals to yield limits or near limits especially from deeper water. Looking forward to the winter season to see how the larger males may redistribute themselves.

The latest: Island County Sheriff notified the city of Langley police department and the Chief of Police called me. Here is what he said in paraphrase and quote as I did not memorize his exact words.....

He said thanks for reporting it and he'd love to nail them sum'bitches as he is sick of dealing with them stealing crab and gear. He said he is an avid crabber and enjoys fishing and it pisses him off that we pay all these license fees and have to abide by these rules and then some tribal members come over and steel right outta our pots and nobody does anything about it. He would love to catch them. he says. He says the numbers on the boat are incomplete or partial so we'd have to identify the boats, which we could easily do. He also says that we would have to identify for sure the people onboard but tough to do without pics cuz they can just say, "wasn't me." The Sheriff's dept and the Langley Chief both say it is impossible to get help from the tribal authorities with much of anything. He also said in the future to not call the poaching hotline (which is another story) but to call 911 cuz it is at minimum a misdemeanor theft, depending on value a felony theft and they have a Sheriff boat that needs some use. They all say they are glad its reported and it was the right thing to have it documented. But not much can be done on this case. The Langley cop was glad we chased em and were yelling. He says he wants to nail them bad, he is sick of them.

So here is the lesson if catching a poacher in progress, call 911 first cuz it is a crime in progress, get pics, then call wdfw. The frustrating part was calling the poaching hotline and having it refer me to another number which was the state patrol. The state patrol hotline refered me right back the poaching hotline......so the poaching line only works right away after 8am.

The Tulalips are the only tribe in Washington to have entered into an interlocal agreement with the County Sheriff (Snohomish County) allowing tribal LE to arrest non-tribal members. If Tribal LE is not willing to fully cooperate in the investigation of such crimes maybe the Island County Sheriff needs to speak with his Snohomish County counterpart about the legitimacy of the interlocal agreement.

The WN number is a start, but the letters following the number are also needed. Not sure if WA Parks is set up to do a registration check on a partial number, but it could narrow the search for vessel, especially with a description available. Tribal registrations are usually followed by tribal identification letters. On the NOP, we see PGK for Port Gamble Klallam, JST for Jamestown, and LEK for Lower Elwha Klallam. Not sure what system other tribes might be using. If similar lettering is used, it shouldn't be too hard for LE to run the WN number and add the tribal letters.......

Calling 911 is the best start here. The poaching hotline is not very efficient. Some folks have cell numbers for the local WDFW officer which can be useful if they're on duty. Pictures are also helpful - cell phone or camera to document vessel(s), people, etc. Try to get some background, too, so that the area can be identified.

seeing as how Todd was an attorney, the funnest way to handle it might be to identify the owner of the boat and then file a huge civil claim against them. TMaybe get Marsha to get a few other claims, claim huge damages, and let them hire an attorney to fight it. Only cost would be the filing. Most likely they will try to ignore it, which then would leave them open to a default judgement, then you go after the boat.

We had a employee who stole a bunch of money. Sued, got the judgement, and 9 years later she got married and tried to buy a home. We ended up getting back all money in the end.

Let's not over complicate this identification thing. Given any sort of description of the boat the tribal folks will recognize it and know who owns it and probably who was operating it on the day in question. That is the good news about such a small community. Of course, the flip side is that there is a high likelihood of a family relationship.........and that is why the whole interlocal thing is, in my opinion, a joke on us since cooperation seems to run only one direction.

Not true. The Colville Tribe has a similar agreement with both Ferry and Okanogan County SO's.

Unfortunately WDFW made reporting a poaching even more confusing when they created the Poaching Hotline because now people call it 24/7/365, when in fact it is only manned Mon-Fri 8A-5P, this also includes the texting program WDFW created.

Bushbear is correct about the Lacey Act and it's "requirements". In addition to this there needs to be support from the US Attorney's Office in order to prosecute the violator. In this case NOAA/NMFS Law Enforcement would be the lead investigator since it is involving crabs and they would be the ones selling the case to the US Attorney, not WDFW.

Having worked in federal natural resource law enforcement I will tell you that there is probably no prosecutor with the US Attorney's Office that would take this case. Why? Because it is not worth it over a few crabs. Lacey Act investigations are typically for huge violations (thousands or millions of $) or for violations such as shooting an elk in a National Park and moving it.

Bigman:

Had not heard about the Colvilles so I stand corrected.

The issue here is not the observed crab theft(s) but, rather, where an investigation of those thefts might lead in terms of quantity, other violators and the potential common buyer and his/her customers.

But, of course, if no one wants to look then we'll never know, will we???

And my personal comments regarding the interlocal agreement(s) remain unaltered.

Lacey Act prosecutions are not always big ticket items. A lot depends on the USA office and how strong they might be on resource prosecutions. There have been/are some good attorneys in the USA environmental section.

Sometimes, smaller cases can work through the system. A lot depends on the strength of the relationship between the state and federal officers (WDFW, NOAA, NMFS, USFWS, BLM, USFS, NPS) and their track record with the USA office.

Politics can also enter the equation, which is unfortunate since the resource belongs to all of us.

AuntyM - If this was simply a casual theft for personal consumption I would agree with you but the reported comments from the Langley Police Chief and the County Sheriff imply something more. Plus, recent documented "commercial" cases in that area lend some support to the potential for a bigger, systemic problem. Kind of overkill to use that sized boat plus a skiff to steal a few crab for the pot.....

I'm not too familiar with the Lacey Act, but similar federal laws usually require that something be done "in commerce," which usually means interstate commerce. However, trade with Indian tribes and foreign nations also satisfies this "in commerce" requirement, so if the thieves are natives and selling to non-native buyers (or maybe stealing from non-native pot owners would count), you might have sufficient federal jurisdiction on that basis.

Here's link to a good overview of the Lacey Act. Personally, I think there is a good argument for a Lacey Act violation in this case, especially if further investigation shows a continuing criminal activity resulting in the illegally taken/acquired crab being entered into commerce or crossed a federal boundary.

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/arus16publlr27.htm

This totally fits within the Lacey Act after reading it. Whomever is buying these crab either suspects they are illegal crab or knows it. Either way there has to be documentation for every pound of crab a wholesaler has on hand. I think it has to start with them to get to the actual crab thieves. With totes on deck, I would think this is not a small deal, I'm guessing there is quite a lot of pounds of crab stolen and illegally sold to a wholesaler who is then in violation by either knowingly having illegal crab, or falsifying fish tickets to make it look legal.

Seems a shame that WDFW LE are out there counting rot cord strands and watching through binoculars to make sure that every crab is marked as it is pulled from the pot while once again turning a blind eye toward scofflaws out there thieving.

Once again we pay for our own oppression.


Fishy

Aunty, I jumped to the conclusion of a willful buyer because I thought every pound of commercially caught crab whether regular commercial or tribal needed to have fish ticket for the sale from crabber to wholesaler. I also know they had a season early in the summer and not now. I didn't know a particular tribal crabber had a quota. I thought they had seasons like the normal commercial dudes. So I then jumped to the conclusion that a buyer purchasing crab from a local crabber at this time would know it wasn't legal.


So, if you don't mind teaching me up, could you tell me more about the quota and how the sale of crab goes from a tribal crabber to a wholesaler.

Ricco, my Undercover Brother...
This was an entertaing read! Good to hear the new Chief in town wants these guys caught just like the rest of the locals fishing Saratoga!

Aunty, are tribal commercials under the same rule as non-tribals in which they aren't suppose to pull gear during darkness?

No overnight soaks or no unattended pots would be an awful rule for a great number of crabbers. That is the great thing about crabbing is you can be doing something else (like sleeping) while your pot is fishing.

Just remember folks the next time the issue of merging WDFW LE into WSP comes up, and it will, maybe We Sports Types need to sit it out and send the message that "Payback Is A Bitch"

So basically as it is now it is nearly impossible for their to be real repercussions from them illegally taking crab without, 1) a seriously thought out undercover long term sting operation by law enforcement of a couple different agencies, or 2) Witnessing an illegal act in progress and calling 911 in order to head off the perps while still underway all the while documenting as much of the crime as possible. Which sucks cuz it leaves the average crabber to be always on the lookout for illegal activity and forces you to be suspecting people which is not cool.

I'm sure more independent acts of illegal crabbing occur by sporties either on accident or by intention, but on a small scale as it effects poundage of crab. But I'm also sure the illegal acts by tribal commercials are huge in comparison as far as intent and poundage goes. Most likely the non-tribal commercials are right there with a selfish few finding sneaky ways to increase their check totals when selling to the wholesalers. Either way, the enforcement should be as vigilant for commercials of all type as it is for sporties and the intent of the acts should be equally reported and documented and publicized for the non sporties as it is for us.

So during the next crabbing opener, if yer in the vicinty of Langley and witness some funny activity going on, call 911 or call The Cheif of Police Randy Heston at 360-914-1559, his cell. Don't use this number frivolously please. But, keep it on hand cuz I guarantee you he will do his best to nail em and even though he's a small town cop, he's a crabber and has the means to take action even if that means he just has to get other LE involved.

I don't recall any discussion about no unattended pots which, by the way, would be absolutely impossible to enforce. There has been some past discussion about no overnight soaks which I believe had as its rationale the desire by LE to be able to observe activity by the owners of the pots. Lots of negative feedback to include folks traveling by boat who anchor up at night and wanted to be able to set pots overnight. Ended up with being able to soak overnight but not work pots during darkness (read the regs for the specific language).

To use the unlawful activities by third parties as an excuse to ban overnight soaks would garner a great deal of negative reaction - and rightly so!!!

As for fish tickets it is my understanding that any sale to a licensed buyer is supposed to result in a fish ticket submitted by the fisherman as well as the buyer. The buyer's fish ticket goes to WDFW but where the seller is tribal I am not sure if it goes to WDFW or the specific tribe or both. In any case this is where the most recent commercial scale violation (tens of thousands of pounds) avoided detection in that neither the seller (Tulalip) nor the commmercial fish buyer generated the required fish tickets.

That scheme was uncovered by WDFW LE backtracking paperwork from the retail level which is very manpower intensive which leads us to the issue of how little money from commercial harvest goes back to WDFW and especially compared to what has been and, more importantly, will be generated next year by the recreational community.

Any fish buyer purchasing crab commercially would reasonably know whether his sources are currently able to fish (crab) legally. What that buyer would not know is whether the crabber is simply fishing illegally or is stealing the crab from someone else. In any case the fish ticket would reflect the name of the fisherman delivering the catch anb hopefully tribal affiliation. Whether that buyer is also required to send a copy to the tribe is another question; seems logical and would help close the loopholes.

IF YOU ARE READING THIS HAVE YOU SENT IN YOUR CRC OR ACCOMPLISHED YOUR ON LINE RECREATIONAL SUMMER CATCH REPORT?????

AuntyM - We'll just have to agree to disagree on the attended pot issue.
WDFW LE simply doesn't have enough boat deck capacity but if I were to try and anticipate every potential action I could speculate that they would increase the P.S. endorsement and spend the money on bigger and faster boats to clear out the unattended pots, reduce the catch and ultimately the number of recreational crabbers and consequentially the amount of licenses sold. But I am not going to get into that negative mode.

What I am going to do is bask in the change in crab management policy and do my best to show that the recreational crab fishery has been unduly constrained by the past (now obsolete) policy through my own crabbing activities. Also, to help ensure that the recreational crabbing community is well educated as to the rules hopefully to reduce violations and further to encourage WDFW to report violations in a non-prejudicial manner for both the commercial and recreational fisheries.

Now, back to the original problem.....if the tribes cannot or will not police their own and/or responsibly coordinate with surrounding jurisdictions to investigate this and similar events then I again suggest that there are tools available for the higher authority (FEDS) to utilize if they have the political will to do so.

The Lacy Act Trafficking Penalties
Despite the many specific prohibition in the Federal fishery regulations and statues, many Federal prosecutions for trafficking offenses are brought against seafood companies and their executive under the Lacy Ac because this law governs the sale of all fishery products, provides for harsher penalties and prohibits a much broader range of activities. Specifically, the Act makes it unlawful to any person.
The basic elements of an offense under the Lacy Act are to:
Import-export, transport ,sell, receive acquire or purchase wildlife, fish or plants that have been taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a state, federal, foreign or tribal law or regulation.

Several aspects of the Lacy Act make prosecutions relatively easy.
A person violating the Act, for example, need not be the same person who took, possessed, transported, or sold the fish/shellfish in violation of the underlying state, federal or foreign law.
Culpability attaches to anyone who imports, exports, transports, receives, acquire, or purchase the fish/shellfish and who knows, or in exercise of due care should know that it was illegally taken, possessed, transported or sold.

Similarly, the government is not required to prove that the defendant knows which underlying law was violated or the nature of violation. Neither must the government prove that the defendant knew of the Lacy Act or knew that he violated it. The government needs only to prove that the defendant knew the fish was, in some fashion, taken, possessed, transported or sold illegally.

The underlying law that must be violated may take different forms. It may be a state fishing regulations, or a state statute that is criminal in nature but carries a lesser penalty than those of the Lacy Act, or it may even be a law or regulation that provides only a civil sanction

We deal with fish tickets all the time.

The following people get copies of the fish ticket.
Dealer, State,NWIFC,Tribal and the Fishermen.

Merging WDFW LE and WSP will be a huge loss to fishermen and hunters, as well as the species themselves. Only two states (Oregon and Alaska) operate this way and Alaska is considering changing into how the other 48 states operate.

JohnQ

I'd much rather have the Commissioners address the apparent difference between their perspective as policy setters and that of the Director who is responsible for implementing the Commission's policies via his his employees.

So who would "suffer" as the result of your proposed actions if there was a merger? Answer: The resource, your opportunities, and possibly the Chief and/or Deputy Chief who may or may not end up retaining their current positions.

I don't see that as a reasonable course of action.

I would love to raise funds for 3-4 one day sting operations... PSA, CCA and individual donors (you) could contribute to pay the overtime for the WDFW/appropriate authorities and we'd have some opportunity to actually catch some of these pot/crab theives. I bet a few well publicized stings would get some people to think twice.

My take is that the VAST majority of crabbing done (commercial, tribal for certain) is done in unattended pots, I'm not clear why we should surrender that right unless all the other user groups did too.

If positive identification had been made and the tribes did not come out officially denouncing said actions then one recourse could be that of public opinion.

None of the tribes want to get a black eye in public and need to keep a clean image as their primary money machine is the casino's. Nothing would gain so much attention as bad publicity saying they are not conserving nor lawfully attending to our marine resources!

Look what happened up north with the derelict nets, as soon as it hit the papers the Nooksacks were out there pulling nets, it took a bit for the Lummi's but they finally did get out there and cleared their nets also.

Power of the pen.

Fishy

We'll see that boat out there again some time, even if it's acting legitimately at that time...there will be a camera around the next time.

Fish on...

Todd

no surprise......

would have stood a chance with a camera.

I know this is a long shot, but have you contacted any media regarding this? Maybe some bad publicity might get the Tribal Authorities to take the right action. At the very least it might help others know to keep their eyes open for these poachers.

Just a thought.

I don't think any local media would touch this unless there was a groundswell from local people first and to do that you would need irrefutable evidence, photos, video just to name a start.
But it can start somewhere and this just illustrates that we should all have cameras ready just in case we have that catch of a life time, our buddy falls in the drink or some scumbag is thieving our resources!

I have been down this road before!


Fishy

even if a camara was on the action it sounds as though it would have been a blurr. it would go something like this maybe... video mode.

2 boats haulinass in near darkness, addicted yelling racial slurs, todd, blahblahblah, boats bobbing weaving and circling! more yelling!!! still very blurry, todd blahblah yada yada yada, by this time 5 minutes of a blurry mess and still more telling by addicted!!!! during this entire sequence oneway is holding on tight with deathgrips.

the video would be a great crazy clip nodoudt!

the news people would not make a report on the story.

How much would y'all be willing to pay for a trap alarm with an exploding dye pack?

This is a serious question. I'm an engineer and I came up with a design. The issue is cost.

The alarm would give you a preset amount of time to disarm the device. No code, dye everywhere.

That...is some good schit, right there.

Fish on...

Todd

Then WDFW LE would get you for wasting marine resources and polluting the water!
Just kiddin...

Sounds interesting, be pretty wild it we got a group sale on these and then called the local sheriff to watch for the guy splattered in neon pink paint!!!!!!

Fishy

I've been conjoring up a similar device.....but your non-lethal one is interesting too.

Tell us more.

Larry B,

The "Reasonable Course of Action" for Bjork/Cenci would be to sit all of their officers down and point out that Officer BigMouth (and Jr AssHat) Olson opened his tater trap and shot every WDFW LE Officer in the foot. Biting the Hand that feeds them (that's Sport Types) is a very bad course of action. And Officer Big Mouth Olson did the public a disservice with his assinine lipservice. It was the Sport Types Not the Tribes or Kommies that stood up last year and saved the collective butts of WDFW LE from writing Seattle HOV Violation tickets. If I had to "Grade" Bjork/Cenci for how they "Educate" their officers, they would get a big fat F. Just show me one even small example of how Bjork/Cenci have Readjusted that idiotic Fisheries Menatlity. That attitude has No Place whatsoever in WDFW.

Right now I am of the mind to Do Nothing and recommend Others to Do Nothing the next time the AssHat Politicians go after WDFW LE. The Ball is squarely in Bjork/Cenci Court to Do Something to make/correct Officer Big Mouth Olson's fiasco.

John Q, I love how you sugar coat things!!!!


Fishy

Thank You!!!! I believe they are Civil Servants first and foremost, and they ought to at least TRY being one. New Experience for Bjork/Cenci.

Doesn't matter what you get on film. It's not politically expedient for any of the outlets to touch it.

It's not news, or journalism..... It's only a negative hit on ratings. Pathetic if you ask me.

Read through this entire thread...

The outcome is inexcusable. Where is the justice?

GDITMMM!

OK I realized I just burned post #7500 on that last GD reply.

I was saving that for something special to post tonight after my meeting at the hospital.

GDITMMRFM!

AuntyM, that would be an interesting form of exposure that might, just might, cause folks with the necessary authority to ID and then have a nice, quiet talk with the owners of that boat. Or more.

it's to bad todd wasn't armed with a wrist rocket launching 1oz. cannon balls thier direction.

While fishing pinks sat. on the puke i got nailed in the elbo with 1.5" 1/4 pencil lead. left a dandy marble sized lump, and drew some blood. i 've been hit all over my blessed body by all sorts of lead flying back at my chisled person over the years. however being nailed by a 2oz pyramid sinker to the right knee cap back in 83 really smarted! the knee is now toast.

so i believe a 1oz cannon ball would have done wonders say in ribs or ear lets say.

I did read it. How does any of it get resolved? It won't...... Unless people want to hear that it is an issue and if not, nothing will happen. LE can't push this thru the court system.

It's too bad. I can get prosecuted for having a barb that 1 of 3 game wardens "thinks" got caught in a cotton ball when the other 2 basically told Officer Abrams to let it go. Didn't happen, he didn't show, I took a day off work to go to court.

This isn't about me. It's about a system that doesn't give a [censored].

Why is a post count so important?

Yo M, that is the beginning of a good idea. Why doesn't the Shellfish Advisory committee make it an agenda item for the F&W Commission, i.e., just how it hurts the New Crab Policy Direction of the Commission disseminating Bad/Faulty/Biased/Non-Existent/Incorrect information. At the very least it would get the Issue On The Table where an examination could be started. And BrushBear with his Colorado Decades Old experiences of good info systems aiding the appropriate management of determining just what the problem is and isn't could be beneficial.

Something interesting. I just got done cooking for the football team dinner at the high school, an every Thursday night event during football season. Good times. BUT!!! One of the coaches is a buddy of mine and asked me about this Great Crab War event of 2011. Turns out, a buddy of his whom is an acquaintent of mine (typical small town stuff) just happens to be a local commercial crabber. Last winters commercial season this guy Brian was getting crab and pots stolen he thought. Well, one day another commercial crabber called Brian cuz he saw a tribal boat with Brian's pots on deck. Brian being a red head and all went after em in his boat. Caught em and alerted the authorities and they found the boat, a Tulalip tribal commercial boat with Brian's pots. They were forced to pay damages of those stolen pots and estimated crab in them.

The fact that Mr. Childers has not called a Shellfish Advisory Group meeting in almost a year IMO speaks loudly as to his interest in having feedback from the recreational community.

Reading and doing are two different things, lets hope the message is crystal clear!


Fishy

But alas, he is a Hard Head cause he still has NOT corrected his math impaired Scofflaw Spreadsheet he presented at the State PSA Meeting last Feb. And when I confronted him at his dog & pony show at the June NOP PSA General membership meeting about it, I did extract a promise by him to in fact correct it, butt so far GOOBERMINT BureauCrap NADA. Hey Director Andersen, do any of your Program Managers speak without Forked Tongue????

AuntyM, my suspicion is that he probably avoids the pain unless there is a specific issue for which he is trying to monitor the recreational "pulse."

+1000

Wow, I just spoke with Asst. Chief Mike Cenzi. Very nice guy on the phone, and yes, this was at 9:38 pm at night. He's going to have another officer contact me, but he says at the minimum they will rattle some cages. We'll see what happens but at least it has got their attention, and I do have to say, everyone I've talked to has seemed very interested and motivated to do something about these types of acts. And once again I was told the best thing to do is call 911 in cases like this. I didn't want to abuse the 911 line, but now realize it should be used for stuff like this.

Why is it we have to make public employees do their job? This might be comedic except that it seems so pervasive, Jesus just do your job already!

Fishy

NO KIDDING!

Richard called me an it is continuing to heat up, stay tuned

I've learned that eyefish seems to make a special notice of miniscule accomplisments such as post totals. why? i have no idea.

Sol is about to be baried from the "top poster" box though.

This is going to get a lot more interesting in the next few days...

Fish on...

Todd

Let's hope so, Todd. Few things are more refreshing to me than seeing justice served.

Best of luck to yous guys!

+100!

I just wish we'd have called 911 first. Woulda been a lot easier. But, the ears that need to know have listened and I'm very pleased with their responses.

How Many Free Spins Yah gonna get at the CaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaCeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeNoooooooooooooooooooooo

Please keep us informed.


Note to self call 911 first and then the bankers hours poaching hotline!


Fishy

BUMP, any updates, or has the Tribe paid off all those involved???

I have not heard a peep from Richard recently.

Enjoying a free week at the casino?

And as expected he is down a phone again. Doc spud, although rico can defend himself. you should consider your targets more carefully.. just sayin

I'd like the final outcome to be something that is so far from reality that it is just fantasy.......just perhaps, but fantasy, non the less.

Rico should receive retribution (in whatever amount is fair). That part is easy, but goes nowhere.

I would like the Tribe to scorn and admonish the offenders and ban them from whatever is meaningful to the Tribe for x-period of time. Any chance you think that will happen? Didn't think so. It's the only thing that would really help, though.

You obviously do not know those involved!

cripes..... I get so weary of the BS sometimes... we were trying to do the right thing.. we don't control the outcome. I'm not going to comment on this issue further

You guys should thank god they have treaty rights, otherwise they'd prob. be parking car bombs next to the state capital, assuming they wouldn't all be dead by now.

The Tribe????

Yeah, John! Pththththth.
AND not all people mind your efforts to extract simple truths from lock-jawed, secretive, inefficient officials, either!!!
So there! You "Refuse-to-Play-Your-Game" guy!

for your relentlessness!

Rightly or wrongly I suspect he was referring to OFFICIALS (as in Government folks) and we know (TV cop shows) that LE won't discuss details of an ongoing investigation.

Seriously, pretty early in any investigation and especially given the likely tribal member involvement.

And if this ends up leading to a serious theft/poaching/illegal sales investigation we probably won't hear any details for quite a while.

That said, it would be responsive for WDFW LE to periodically reaffirm that they are still actively working the case to reassure everyone that it simply has not been "lost."

Beats the hell outta kissing thier Arses All The time M! And where is the Accountibility of Honesty & for that matter accuracy, i.e., the Scofflaw Spreadsheet with Math Impairment? The Pro Kommie/Tribal bias's of WDFW is very well known, and quite frankly would've just gone away quietly on this Theft Problem if sites & threads like this did not exist. Kind off the Old Fisheries Know What's Good For Us mentality, that's the Bullcrap you consistently support with your biased thinking.

I've been a Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Boy Again.

As high up as you can go has heard about this. Officer Mullins is on it
. I was kinda waiting till more happened.

Mike Cenzi is also very aware, he seems quite interested in this. Based on what Todd, Howard, and I did, I believe they are doing as best they can. We should have called 911 and gotten photos to help them out more. But they do want this crap stopped, and they do wish to get these bad apples.

Folks are fired up because they're sick of this chit (pot and crab stealing). I know that you guys are one the few that were "lucky" enough to catch the flat nosed fisheaters in the act, we are rooting for a good outcome......for once.

+1

Possible Double Standard Scofflaw Sniffed Out of The Reel News!!!!

Just got my September copy of the Reel News and an "Item" on page 16 (Officers NoteBook) got my attention as a rather Obvious Double Standard Scofflaw Counting of Violations that WDFW LE employs. "Undocumented Commercial Catch" item talks about One Illegal using another Illegal Commercial Buyers License (that's 2), annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd where are the Receiving Tickets (That's anywhere from 2 to Gawd Knows How Many!!!!), and then there are at least 2 Tribal Crabbers in trouble (another 2), and finally 1,200 pounds of crab (+1,200).

Now the question is; Just What is the Childers/BigMouthOlson/Cenci's Scofflaw Count and Violation Rate??? One as reported in the article or as employed on Sports Crabbers -- anywhere from a minimum of 6 to 1,205+. I wonder what Officer BigMouth Olson would use as a Violation Rate since there was only 4 People involved. For the Math Impaired WDFW, 4 into 6 on the low side (150%) or 4 into 1,205 (301.25%).

I'm back in town, Rico has already met with a few folks, I've been doing it via phone from afar, and I'll be meeting some this week, too...it hasn't been dropped, far from it...it's just not being handled on a public InterWebz chat board, for what I'd think should be obvious reasons.

Fish on...

Todd

October Bump for those in Pungentopolis with short attention spans Any Updates Todd???? Or did the Tribal Casino's offer up yet another BIG BRIBE to make it go away????

Watch out! They are going to say it's part of their customs. Didn't everyone know that back in the day they had their crab pot stealing ceremony? It's a pretty interesting deal. It requires drinking 2 40 ouncers a safety meeting and oh wait, they didn't have crab pots back in the day. Its things like this that makes sympathizing with them impossible. They hate being stereotyped but actions speak louder than words. Don't want to be stereotyped don't be stereotypical!

The process is underway. The boats are known, the people known, the wdfw officer in charge has done a great job, done all he could, and as stated before, the process is underway and probably will take some time. But WDFW enforcement has done as hood as possibly can with the available information they have.

Bet your ass,I'd of had scalps.

Update (????) Bump Time.

They're American just as you are. Nationality has nothing to do with this.

Depends on who you talk to. . . .. or what "nations" rules you choose to follow. . . . ..

Case still open. WDFW officers did their part quite well. Prosecutor not too motivated about it mostly cuz I cannot positively 100% identify the crab bandits faces even though they admit to being on the caught boats. Tell ya more about it a little later. I'd be lying if I said "yes that is the bastards for 100% sure." But the dudes admit to being there in the boats, by my pots....

Just maybe a phone call to the Island County Sheriff enlisting his DA Motivational Skills.

There are no DA's in WA. They are County & City Prosecutors

Just a Mid November I'm Bored Bump, anything new or did the PROSECUTOR spend that Casino Bribe, er I mean Campaign Contribution????

John, thanks for keeping this on your radar.