Modified wallis cast vs. wallis cast?

just got my first center pin set up together and have been practicing out in the yard with my dog. She helps me retrieve the float. Haha. I watched all the YouTube videos I could find and have been practicing the "short cast" and the "modified wallis" cast.

My question is, can you achieve greater distance with the original wallis over the modified wallis? It seems to me that with the original wallis the rod tip gets loaded a bit more than the modified wallis. After a couple hours in the yard yesterday I'm happy with accuracy and distance so far with the modified wallis cast though.

Still getting my feet wet with this technique myself, so I can only offer you words of encouragement, but, STICK WITH IT! After you land that first fish it is all so very worth it. Good luck out there to you.



Tyler

For God's sake...just don't EVER side cast.

Otherwise, whatever works best for you.

Fish on...

Todd

haven't side casted yet Todd, and don't intend to. everything I've read has told me to start by learning the wallis cast and there will never be a reason to side cast. I'm not keen on line twist so Fvck the side cast. Haha.

DFon't forget about BC casting. I wish that I could find a better example. But I prefer using it when casting heavier gear.

I agree with Todd, side casting should be a cast of last resort, especially here in the NW where it's generally not needed to make an adequate centerpin cast. The reason its taught is because its one of the easiest to learn and like a spinning reel it's quite effective when casting off the rod tip or when using light floats. Side casting doesn't require as much casting control (like a baitcaster) but also doesn't provide as much accuracy or line control either. Not to mention it causes line twist, which should be avoided whenever possible. But whether you use it or not, you should still have it in your bag of tricks.

The Modified Wallis cast is actually more of a "across the body pull cast". The benefit of either type of Wallis cast is that they come directly off the reel without twist. However you can also "open" your Wallis cast (by changing orientation of reel) during the cast to get additional distance if needed, but this does introduce some line twist too. Another trick to increase distance with a Modified Wallis is to introduce a double haul into the cast where a short pull before loading the rod with the second pull gets reel accelerating even faster.

These types of casts are the most commonly discussed or demonstrated centerpin casts, mainly because they are promoted in the GL are where they use much smaller floats and lighter gear. A centerpin cast you don't hear much about on the web or out of the GL area is the BC or swing cast, which actually works better for our waters because of the rods and terminal tackle we typically employ. It's a very simple cast that offers distance rivaling the side cast with zero line twist. It also offers line control equal to the Wallis cast and is far more accurate than either. It does require a bit more room than either the Wallis or the Side cast to properly load the rod, but that's generally not a problem especially when fishing from a boat or a bar.

Before float fishing moved out to the GL with our Skamania steel, the BC cast was the method steelheaders used out here for years. Now that joys of center pin fishing are being discovered out here, we are having to rediscover our roots and the techniques that work best here as well. It's unfortunate for those in the NW that are wanting to learn centerpin casting that there aren't more resources, like videos, that are tailored or directed to our area, such as the BC ("swing" or "across the body") cast. FWIW, here's my feeble attempt to show a comparison of the Wallis and the BC cast side by side. Hopefully others will contribute better resources for our area as this highly effective technique gains resurgence in the NW.


For those wanting to get started with a centerpin, casting can definitely take some getting used to coming from a baitcaster or spinning reel. But with a littel practice you can easily become proficient in a fairly short time. Whether you use every type of cast or not, it's still best to learn as many as you can because each have their particular advantages and disadvantages. You can also use combinations too. For some folks the learning curve is short, some longer, but once it becomes second nature it sure is a lot of fun.

Enjoy!

Oops, sorry there Sky.

I watched that video and did practice that a few times but timing seems to be tough on that one. I'm better at the "short cast" than the BC. and so far I'm better at the modified wallis than I am at the short cast. still playing around with my grip and what finger works best for breaking the reel. can't wait to put it all together on some ultra aggressive summer runs!

It helps to start with a heavier float/weight and then work your way lighter as you get better. Key is the timing between the rod loading and getting your reel spinning. Good luck

I was playing around with timing yesterday and found that if I start the reel up just slightly into my forward swing on the cast I get good distance.

I get mine going just at the end of the backswing by just taking my pinkie off the spool and lettin' 'er rip.

It's hard at first...but the learning curve is fast. Practice with both hands, in both directions...you'll need it. You'll also be able to do it over your head once you get your timing down. Too soon or too slow on a regular cast will mess up your aim...too soon or too slow on an overhead cast will drive it into the water in front of you, or throw it up in the air, both of which will result in spectacular backlashes!

I'll be fishing with it some of the time on June 1 if you're out there, Drew...keep an eye out for us.

Fish on...

Todd

They are not of the best quality. But there are a few video links at the bottom of this page.

http://www.questoutdoors.net/skills/centerpin/articles/bc-cast/

Todd,

I'll be up there all weekend on the opener. Luis knows where I'll be. The spoon rod will come out to play as well. It always does.

Bc cast only for me never found a place where I couldn't use it and the distances is unreal. And I found out that I can rocket the float with my new islander.......summer runs and pins..........Ohh God yeah!

Drew, it all becomes so perfectly clear once out on the water....

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Does the BC cast just us the weight of your rig to start the rotation of the pin? Looks easy in the video but I know how that is!

I have been getting very good distance and decent accuracy with the modified wallis cast. Not sure that I will ever have to cast any further but who knows. Just finished fishing the South Santiam, pretty water and lots of casting. No catching unfortunately.

Yup. Same concept as using a bait caster.

Drew,

Definitely take Todd up on his offer. Like two-handed or spey casting, nothing beats getting a bit of hands on casting instruction when it comes the center pin. Showing and doing really trumps trying to explain it. For many years I had to learn on my own, which of course caused me a number of bad habits along the way. Until you hook up with him or another mentor, I put up a short demo video just for you. In spite of all the faults and low production value, I hope it helps you visualize the timing and tempo of the BC cast while you continue to practice your Wallis cast too.
BTW, if anyone can do better please post it up, there ain't much out there.

That's awesome. I searched for a while the other day trying to find a good BC cast video and couldn't find one. Thanks A LOT for taking the time to put that together. That really helps me visualize it.

How much weight were you using to get that distance? It looked absolutely effortless and smooth.

I'm game to learn from any of you guys who'd be willing to spend a day on the water with the pin rods. Mooch and or Todd, Pick a float and I'll row.

Thanks again Mooch!

Video worked great Mooch. went out in the yard this morning and was instantly getting better distance and accuracy than the modified wallis. Within a half hour or so I got the BC cast down from both directions as well as over the head.

Thanks again for posting that. I'm sure it'll help plenty of others as well.

That's an awesome video! I am going to try it out. How much weight were you using to cast that? Would 1/4 oz setup work? Thanks.

Very nice Mooch

Thanks guys. Glad it helped.
Just might take you up on your offer Drew. Not too often I find someone willing to row anymore.

The weight I was using was a 1/4 oz (7 gm) inline sinker inside a plastic practice golf ball, which BTW is kinda fun to cast across the grass in the dark. It not only helps with touch and timing, but sometimes I can even get an owl to come down and attack it right in front of me. The first time freaked me out! Been trying to photograph this, but without success so far. Bird's nests can be really nasty tho.

As stated, it can be easier to use heavier weights to start out with. But there's really no need to overweight to get long casts if you have a decent float rod.

BTW, this is really great advice:
Biggest problem most folks have is casting too fast or too hard, like they were spin or bait casting. It's more like spey fishing, give the rod and reel a chance to do the deed.

Great post Mooch, and video. Seems like I met you before? I bet that is a "hoot" having an owl take your ball. Very Cool. I would like to try the center pin some time.

FD,

That's the problem with posting pics or a video...... people can match your image to what they see in the Post Office or on AMW.

Next time you see me on the river be sure ask to take one for a spin before you make the call to Crime Stoppers.

Mooch, I have an Islander IS that I've never put line on and was considering using it for beach fishing for coho. The problem that I see is tossing a float, weight and herring without a massive birdsnest. I always use a baitcaster and sometimes get a small tangle as the gear helicopters it's way out.

JG, once you get the hang of it it's not much different than using a baitcaster.

Fish on...

Todd

I'll get er spooled up and give it a try for beach cohos then. I guess I'll have to get a pin rod.

Beach coho sounds fun! especially on a pin rod.

Beach coho = fun

Maybe I'll give it a shot around Carkeek, if I can deal with hippies harassing me.

I'll try it with you if you get ur salt license. But I'm thinking Whidbey Island, or one of my spots in humpy hollow.

Sounds good Jeremy. need a salt license for sure. Damn discover pass emptied my wallet so I couldn't buy the combo license. You gonna get a center pin setup? I'm having a blast with mine and I haven't even left my back yard. Haha.

I gotta build those 12 blanks I got first. Then buy 2 live bait tuna blanks.


But I would like to get into pins soon. I'll have to see how it goes, more overtime more toys.

I think pigs will be able to fly before you wrap any of those blanks Jeremy.

Love beach fishing for coho and SRC too, but a precision and expensive centerpin reel would not be my first pick for the salt. Especially those with bearings like the Islander Steelheader, which are not simple to thoroughly clean. Centerpins are not exactly like fly reels or single action mooching reels either; they need to spin within tight tolerences and zero friction to perform well. Their performance and value can be greatly affected by the least amount of foreign material or corrosion. Thought I better put that out there.

Mooch, if I see ya I will definitely stop and say hi. I have a blue Lavro that is very old with some stickers on it. Say hi if ya see me.
Maybe a WCTU meeting a number of years ago?

Stay cool Mooch!

No doubt sporting one of these in my baby blue double knits too. I've forgotten the secret handshake tho.

I'll find ya, Doc. There isn't a Lavro still floating that I don't notice or admire.

Cool!

Don't cast your centerpin into salt water!! It will ruin your (likely very expensive) reel!!!! Plus you need a "flow" of water for effective centerpin float fishing and the shore/wind at Carkeek isn't going to provide anything but bird's nests for the beginner. Take your pin up to Piper's Creek when the Chum are running up it in November and keep those reels in fresh water. Actually, you may want to not do that either as that is likely a protected creek...