Who knew? Flossing is legal in California

I always thought that flossing was illegal. Apparently in California it is perfectly legal. I sent an email to the head of the Cal DF@G to get a clarification on flossing after seeing a huge increase in the activity. The regs say that under section 2.00 (c) Fishing Methods: It is unlawful to kill, or retain in possession any fish which has not voluntarily taken the bait or artificial lure in its mouth. Any fish not taken pursuant to these regulations, shall be released immediately back into the water. Also under section 1.05 Angling: To take fish by hook and line with the line held in the hand, or with the line attached to a pole or rod held in the hand or closely attended in such manner that the fish voluntarily takes the bait or lure in its mouth.

I was wrong. I'm thinking they need to re-write the regs. This is the email response I got back.

Lame...I think that officer needs to read his own regulations.

Fish on...

Todd

Agreed. The law seems pretty unambiguous to me (although *proving* that a fish didn't take something willingly would be near impossible). Unfortunately, law enforcement officers are not always the experts on the law.

The way I read his response, the USE of flossing rigs is perfectly legal. Fish COULD willfully "take" the presentation.

Retaining fish that did not willfully "take" the gear is what's illegal.

He plainly states that some people keep them anyway, while others do the "right" thing.

Bottom line, while it may not be legal, such "take" seems to be tolerated by enforcement.

Those flossers on the mad kill me. When its muddy they are there in droves. When the water turns green they all bag it,and thats when that river can be lights out on hatchery turds. I like going up there and bait fishing for a few bucks for the smoker.

The bite is where it's at. Flossing isn't fishing. If its a terminal area like Nimbus basin or Thermalito on the feather I say let them floss those hatchery boots and keep them off the water I fish

"The extra-long leaders do often foul hook fish, many times hooked in the face or tail of the fish"

Seems to me that he is stating that the long leaders are legal but that fish hooked in the face or other places are considered foul hooked. I assume that it is not legal to keep foul hooked fish, so all fish not hooked in the mouth would be illegal. If it is legal to keep foul hooked fish, then the whole rules are screwed up.

It's alright to retain a fish as long as it was hooked in the mouth, it doesn't matter if a knowitall called it flossing.

From what I understand flossing is them is illegal in CA, but it is popular on the American like Hank said.

I also think the email was saying that retaining those fish is NOT legal.

Best,

ive kept thousands salmon /steel in ca since 1990 all hooked in the mouth mostly fished nimbus clay banks and sailor bar just below hatchery. i used minimum 25'-30' leader small bead and a #2 gami small pencil lead was the ticket just enough to tick bottom fish will be nice and bright august- sept i really miss being down there . but its much easyer pickins here in wa got plenty practice from nimbus dam im glad i did it destroys fish in wa same method from cali.

90 feet.

Eyefish and some others on here should be HUGE supporters of flossing on some of the rivers down here - it gets rid of hatchery fish that otherwise would try to spawn in the river.

The flosser's brain is wired in such a way, that he/she has no need/desire to experience the take.
Probably some don't know that "the take" exists.

Cali should fix the reg.

The way i take it is that its NOT legal. A fish is not VOLUNTEERING to take the bait, which, according to the regs, is not legal.

I don't care what anyone says, flossing is illegal. The fish isn't taking the bait. You're forcing the fish to "take" the bait, but in reality, the fish didn't volunteer to hit it whatsoever. They are the same as snaggers in my eyes. No need for em

Flyfishermen call flossing "the swing".

best lawyer in world could not prove flossed fish..oh ask the fish what happened duh

Flossers are counting on it.

The laws are different for different state so in most of the state that Flossing is legal and i think most of the people think that its the easy way and using that.But may its illegal in other state near you.
get the info about world's best solicitors

hmmmm? 1 post. any guesses who this joker might be?

If you think that's true then RVRFSHR ought to be names RVRSNAGR

speeding on the freeway is illegal too

Sigh...

Offdaboat, it doesn't take OJ's Dream Team to prove you flossed a fish when you're using 20' leaders and on your 8th hookset you bring in a fish with a hook in it's mouth. Do us all a favor and just KYS.

Lol you guys so funny on here
I guess drift fishing period should be illegal
Cause To be honest you can't help but floss fish with drift gear
If your doing it right

Leader can be 3 foot
Still gonna floss some


Simple stuff really

In the mouth it goes home????

From the Flosser's Manifesto.....

You can floss a fish with about any tactic under the sun. The point is whether on not that is your objective. I guy using a 3' leader is making an effort and is far more likely to not floss a fish than your buddy with the 20' leader is. How the hell people don't get the difference is beyond me. Some people's kids.

Got another email last week from the Lt. in charge of Caltip. Looks like Cali might be addressing the flossing situation. Keeping my fingers crossed.



Hi Mr. XXXXXXXXX, I thought of your question the other day after I had heard some news. The Department is currently working on several new regulations to be proposed to the Fish and Game Commission (not sure when). One of these proposed regulation changes would to specifically target “flossing”. I’m not sure what the regulation wording will be, but I believe it would be a gear regulation that would specifically prohibit the use of extra-long leaders.

Currently as you stated the regulation reads the fish must voluntarily take the hook into its mouth. Unfortunately with our current regulations it is very difficult to prove involuntary take from “flossing” in a court room.

Mike

Lieutenant Michael Milotz
Department of Fish and Wildlife
Law Enforcement Division
CalTIP Coordinator
1416 9th Street, Room 1326
Sacramento, CA. 95814





1-888-334-CalTIP – 24 hour Poaching/Polluting Hotline

I like driftfishing the bead. I use a 3 ft leader with the bead pegged 1 to 2 inches above the hook. I do hook most of my fish in the mouth with this method. Occasionally I do hook some fish from the outside of the jaw in. What I've noticed though is that the hook will be in the side of the jaw (from the outside in) that is closest to the bank I'm fishing from.

In order for this to happen the fish would have had to be facing downstream. Which tells me the fish turned downriver chasing and then biting the bead and getting the hook pegged in its jaw.

There are flossers and there are people using very small presentations but they are not one in the same.

I know guys who use beads to side drift and they catch fish. There is no way that the fish are being flossed but....there are the guys that just can't get it right the legal way so flossing is the only way they will get a fish to the bank. Also the "pegged bead" method with fly fisherman works without flossing. I know some fly fisherman have been accused of flossing with that technique but again, the fish do actually hit the bead. I fish it with a floating line mended with the bead heading straight down stream on and an indicator, and sometimes as a trailer behind a fly. If you ever get a chance to fly fish for feeding trout with beads behind spawning salmon do it. It’s a blast. I’ve watched the trout swim right up to the bead and take it. I don't get why people want to floss/snag. How could anyone think it's a good thing?

People who can't get a fish to actually bite clearly think it's a good idea or they wouldn't do it so much. The fact that you may not get busted for it because the cops can't prove you were snagging doesn't all of a sudden turn you into a fisherman...you're still a snagger.

Fish on...

Todd

Most of these folks would do well to fish for salmon with a spinner, just once. That moment when your spinner stops running for just that split second before the fish decides to eat and turn on it is one of my favorite in all types of fishing. Right up there with flossing one up on a Spey rod (nice troll, Slab).

Ah yes. There really is nothing like a slab pounding a spinner!