Salmon quota updates

Is there a site that gives us how much of the quota has been met for kings in the marine areas? Thanks

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/creel/ocean/

The upper right on the following page has MA 9 and MA 10 quotas and updates.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/reports_plants.html

given what I experienced, saw, and heard on the radio, this may be closed before the next weekend (23-24).

Same in Port Townsend Boat Haven - no fish checker counting while we were there and this was right around 10:30 am. Prime time

The on the water law enforcement and WDFW presence seemed appropriate in the areas of MA-9 in which I fished Saturday and Sunday. Although salmon seasons are too short this year, I don't think it's terribly fair to be getting on the State for the way in which it is administering the seasons that are in effect. Got to just enjoy it while we can.

If there is a "hard" quota then conservation demands that the fishery be monitored. If the numbers are a "guideline" or "expectation" then auto-pilot works just fine.

The Chinook catch in the summer marked selective fisheries for MA 9 and MA 10 are developed using what is called the full Murthy design. Here is link to a short description of the method.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01580/wdfw1580.pdf

This is a well developed method that has been reviewed and accepted. It does not require that every angler (or boat launch) be monitored; an impossibility.

A more detailed discussion of the method is available if anyone is interested.

Curt

Thanks for the link Curt. Great info.

We let go a dozen fish that were legal, but within an inch or two, at most, of not...but saw a ton of those little fish bonked.

That is how your quota gets used up fast.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd -
The concerning thing about those smaller fish is that so many are mature fish. From scale samples for those 22 to 25 inch fish most were 3 year old fish and a surprising number were 4 year old fish.

As an illustration of the shrinking Puget Sound Chinook for the years 2012 to 2014 in the summer Mark Selective Fisheries for Chinook for Marine areas, 5, 6, 9, 10, and 11 the port samplers measured 17,188 fish and none of them were more than a meter (40 inches). There were a few plus 40 inch fish checked in 2011 and 2010 (11 out of 10,000 fish). The median size of the fish check for those years was between 28 and 29 inches.

While understandable release those smaller Chinook to harvest larger fish only compounds the problem of the fisheries selecting against those faster growing and older fish.

It has been apparent for sometime that our Chinook have been shrinking and with the advent of the mark selective fisheries the situation with the hatchery Chinook has been highlighted. Of equal concern is that both WDFW and the sport fishers leadership have been unwilling to even discuss potentially addressing that situation. And in fact have gone so far as to propose reducing minimum size limits during winter blackmouth season. To the extent that those fish contribute to hatchery brood stock such a move would compound the selection problem.

The issue with reaching Chinook quotas so quickly is largely driven by the increasing power of the recreational fleet. Today we collectively can catch a quota in a couple weeks that would have taken as much as 4 weeks a few years ago. I agree that part of that is driven by folks rushing to get on the water to get some fish before the seasons close. But in addition todays angler is better equipped (larger boats, better electronics, better downriggers, better information, etc.) than ever before. Again neither WDFW and the salmon angler leadership are anxious to attempt to address that issue.

Curt

Gee, I remember reading in WDFW's Chinook recovery/management report that there was no evidence that fishing reduced adult Chinook size.

As to the gear improvements, the first Lake WA sockeye fishery I was involved in managing was open for weeks. Now they last days.

CM -
40 years ago a Chinook Jack on Puget Sound was considered to be any fish under 28 inches and it was extremely rare to find an adult female Chinook of less than 28. Today it is 24 inches and now it is not unusual to see adult female Chinook of less than 24 inches and rarely less than 22 inches. Kind of sounds smaller to me.


I remember those old sockeye fisheries; in 1988 the sport quota was 55,000 sockeye and the sport fleet was not able to catch that full share in a 6 week seasons with a 6 fish bag limit. A decade ago that last time we fished LW the fleet daily catch was in excess of 10,000/day with a two fish limit.

If anglers want a longer season (bigger quota ) for central sound waters (MA 9 & 10) we are going to either change how we fish or move fish from other fisheries - winter blackmouth or other MAs in the summer.

curt

I say it's time to make MA 10 and MA 9 a "no down riggers, no divers, and a herring mooching only" fishery!

...as long as they open up the area near Salmon Bay (Magnolia bluffs out in front of Rays), I'm in!

Smalma

The shrinking of Chinook and the other species was well known 30-40 years ago. But, when push came to shove WDFW said they aren't getting smaller.

When the draft document circulated in WDFW the initial intent (we were told) was that this would be part of the public comments and responded to as it was a Fed document. After getting comments like "the fish are shrinking" and such it was decided that WDFW was one of authors, so these were internal comments that didn't need to be publicly admitted to or responded to. Fisheries need to be protected.

The weekend catch estimates for MA 9 and MA 10 are up on WDFW's web site!

The preliminary estimate for MA9 was 902 Chinook or 29.5% of the 3,056 quota.

Estimate for MA 10 was 106 or 7.5% of the 1,395 quota.

Curt

Smaller mature Chinook means reds aren't as deep and subject to scour--- like watching a turd swirl in the bowl.

Absolutely Jerry. And, smaller females mens fewer eggs per female. So, as fish shrink, you need to put more on the grounds to maintain the same numerical production.

not many of us moochers left. Ya have to go to no point to see a few. I look around any were else and many times I am the only one waiting for that slacker. Ya cant even find a direct drive reel any more. My son and i had some guys troll by us and asked us what we were doing. They actually didnt know there was another way to fish salmon than with a downrigger. I couldnt believe they were serious...I launched out of Ballard mon. Not many trailers in the lot. I fished the trees and docks, and had to go elsewere th get my fish.

I remember those days out front. Been a while. The 5 min ballard bite. Most times I would travel when it got daylight.

Be nice to get a few more weeks fishing in 9. I have put back a lot of sm fish like everyone else.

Than you remember John (always had his dog on the boat with him) and Casey. Ballard High Liners!

The 5 minute bite. So true.....

Used to pick up a ton of fish from Rays to the black train bride. Mooching in amongst the boat traffic coming in/out of the Locks! Fun times!

As a young kid, I hooked, played, and landed a nice king directly out in front of Rays. I can still remember the drunk diners up on the deck at Rays hootin' and hollerin' as this 11 year old kid was battling a 20+lb. King!

Apparently Captain Q and his friend used to fish off of our dock in Magnolia.

Found this photo in my archives. Not too sure what the numbered labels are for, but here's my guess......



1) Where I used to live.
2) Where I used to take my boat in the winter and find L9 and U20 flatfish lost by the plunkers at the Locks. Also where we hand lined in a king after snagging the broken off line with our mooching gear.
3) Where I ran across a poacher with a net strung from the beach to the lumber. He threatened to kill me if I never told anyone.
4) Where I got spooled by a king swinging spoons
5) Where we would plunk for steelhead using L9 and U20 flatfish
6) Where my brother would sneak over and swing spoons for kings.
7) ? Besides a bridge? I think the homeless and tweakers would also be hiding out under neath it.
8) Where the tweakers would stash our stolen fishing gear.

Dang Parker, that really brings back the memories. What a great place to grow up!

Michael Parker,
You must remember Joe's bait right in your backyard?....(get there early because Joe was drunk by 8am) and sometimes he could be a 'basturd'.....had a few beers with him many times when we came in. He was a 'piece of work'.
Then there came Dan's 'Ballard bait'.....Dan was cool and his wife loved this 'ole basturd'....there were huge lines up the stairs to the railroad tracks to get bait when fishin was good and she would see me in line and tell the crowd to get the hell out of the way and let chuck up to the front to get his herring.
English Ladies are the best.
Dan did his own seining for herring and bait was always live and kicking when you bought it and I would purchase two dozen and always there was three in the bag......................They always treated this 'ole fuker' well.
Later on Dan started exporting his herring to Alaska or where ever the market was.
Dans was one of God's finest.

Some of you may remember his daughter taking over the bait shop after mom pasted and turning it into a little' bistro '..........didn't last but a couple of years. Was a fun place to eat and drink and listen to easy jazz.
Dan used to have several rods in holders off his dock with live herring for bait...........I witnessed several epic battles with Dan or Mom and or daughter battling a nice king or coho right off the bait holding pens.

Those were the days!.............I long for them back.

I'm with you Michael.............mooching only...............and of course jigs sting zelda's,darts,crippled herring and......you get it!
Get 'mooching' only into law and I will give you all my trolling gear including down-riggers and electronics...promise.
Now back to my glass of Cabernet,
Peace,
Chuck

Of course I remember Dan's bait shop! Straight shot from us and was always our first stop in the early am. I also got to watch several of the bait kids on the dock fight kings.

We would mimic that over on our dock. No big kings, but used to catch the snot out of the poor black mouth and seaguls.

Great fishing with you the other day, Diamond Cutter! Always a fun time on the water! Still don't know why you let that fish go at the boat. Now, we just need to get tjcarrol back on that fishing horse!

Captain Q - did you ever get any legit salmon off of our dock?

Somehow we managed to always...um...."hook" a sockeye when they passed by, maybe a big king or two, and at least a couple of silvers every year. About once a year, I'd get a steelhead on a spinner, spoon, or casting a Flatfish out to a rolling pod.

Oddest thing we hooked off of the dock was a HUGE true cod. In the 3' and 35-40 pound range.

My early years were at Fort Lawton.....we lived where I could look East at the "Government Locks", as they were called in the middle 40's. I remember what seemed like 100's of small boats fishing the area.

If we went for a walk, North, we got to a "cliff", seemed like a mile down to a 5 year old. I remember many boats in that area also.

Makes my head hurt, to go that far back in time....lol

Than you remember John (always had his dog on the boat with him) and Casey. Ballard High Liners!


I knew them and a bunch more. Some were faces on the water...some were good friends. Ther were a bunch of good fishermen. I knew Raileys befote they got the bait dock. Dave anyway.. i saw one of the millers at no point today. I imagine Casey is retired from the RR and fishing out there somewere. Lost track of him. Stone passed.. so did Stew. Lost track of almost all those guys.

Parker, we never did catch a big fish off your dock.

Who remembers Frenchie? He was a fixture at the Locks. My uncle Connie was one of the top steelheaders down there in the day.

Casey is still around, He fishes out of a black Lund. You"ll see him at Meadow, West Point and Richmond Beach.

My brother worked at Ballard Bait for Dan and Vera. We used to fish live bait off the dock and catch some really nice salmon.

Oh the memories......

I will have to keep a eye out for a blk lund. Be nice to see him..

Must have been neat to live on the beach parker. That lil bay put out some nice dollies too. Put alot of fish in the boat fishing the canal in those days. Good place to get ran over, and cut off.. lol. Or have your fish run into a trible net.

Summer Chinook Fishery Quotas
Marine Area 9 Quota: 3,056

Total catch as of July 24, 2016: 2,284

Marine Area 10 Quota: 1,395

Total catch as of July 24, 2016: 246

I'm not sure what the quota is for MA 11 as I don't fish down there for salmon anymore.
The regs say it may close early if chinook guideline is attained...
not sure what that guideline is though.
Perhaps someone else can chime in an answer your question.
SF

cool stuff!

One of my bobber beach buddies has landed 3 beach Chinook in area 9, has to spend the night near the beach as the Chinook are only there O'dark thirty.

Not much going on in area 11, fished 3 different tides this last week and nothing, not many boats out. Fished 3 tree and Beals
Have not heard of any fish being caught

Summer Chinook Fishery Quotas
Marine Area 9 Quota: 3,056

Total catch as of July 28, 2016: 2,381

Marine Area 10 Quota: 1,395

Total catch as of July 28, 2016: 324

Spoke with Deputy Chief Cenci at the protest rally on the Skok this afternoon and he had no emergent info on a closure date. Expect that when it happens it will be slammed hard and loud!

I'm hearing 9 should fish through Monday (maybe). 10 should at least make it through next weekend (probably).

There's a rumor going around the south sound that a quota was fabricated for MA-11 and 13, but not published with the reg's when the permit came through? Anybody hear that one?

fb

fishbadger-
If you check you 2016-2017 fishing regulation pamphlet you will see that for MA 11 under the salmon season the following wording is highlighted in yellow

'"Season may close earlier if CHINOOK guidelines are attained."

The exact same wording can be found under the summer salmon seasons for MA 5, 9, 10, and 11.

That wording can also be found during the winter "blackmouth" seasons for MA 6, 7, 8-1, 8-2, 9, 10 and 11

Curt

Thanks Smalma. . .and that published guideline was. . .unpublished?

Specific numbers were given for the quotas in the other areas if memory serves,

fb

Any updates on MA 9 & 10?
Thanks,
SF

9 should be open through tomorrow. Point No Point / Skunk Bay has been producing. Lots of really, really small bait and matching the hatch has been working well. 10 is still a long ways from meeting quota.

The A9 fishery will remain open for "several more days" following todays advisor call. No action on MA 10, as that quota is not nearing being met.

According to WDFW's web site the update status of MA 9 quota is that the catch through 7/31 was 2,791. With a quota of 3,065 that leaves 265 Chinook left.

At current catch rates expect a closure prior to the weekend.

The MA 10 catch is currently at less of 1/3 of quota.

No word on the status of the quota status in MA 5 and MA 11.

Curt

How about an in-season coho update?

We caught 3 adult coho on Possession bar yesterday, biggest was ad-clipped and 7-8lbs I also head of other catching them in Edmonds, and over on Jefferson Head. That is 20 square miles of active migrant coho activity in the Sound as early as August 1st.

GodLovesUgly -

Given that no one can keep a coho anywhere north of the Columbia in Washington waters in front of MA 9 or 10 it can hardly be surprising that some coho are making to this area.

Considering that there has been no harvest no sure that I'm seeing any coho signs that coho forecasts are that far off. The one real positive sign is the over all size of the coho this year. A clear indication that ocean conditions have improved dramatically in the last few months. However that does not mean that the coho smolts going to sea last year survived well; just that those that did are finding decent groceries this spring/summer.

Just to put things in some context last year (2015) when we could keep coho on August 1 out of 156 boats checked at Everett 15 coho were retained and out of 42 boats checked at Shilshoe 20 coho were kept. And we all know what a bust the coho escapements were later that fall.

Curt

Catch and release coho fishing has been good since the July 1st opener.

Fishing was good all winter and spring throughout the sound for resident fish. I encountered resident coho in places I've never caught them before while cutthroat fishing.

The size of the hatchery coho we've been encountering lately is excellent and they are already larger then most the fish we were catching last fall.
With or without harvest, this year has produced the best July coho fishing in a number of years based on my past experiences. We've encountered good populations of juvenile herring and sand lance which may explain the plump coho.

There seems to be some ocean fish sneaking in now. It will be interesting to see what the returns look like at the end of the year. Lets hope that as marine conditions improve so will the coho stocks in coming years.
SF

It's just been decided on the Advisor call that A9 will close Thursday Night. We meet Tuesday to re-eval A10.

Speaking of unmarked Kings: while checking in with the fish checker this past week , somewhere on the straights. I mentioned that I wished that I new how long a quick surgery on one of those slabs might take to heal. Very hard to let them BIG ones go only to be headed for some tribal ceremony.

His reply: " I don't know, but you could experiment on those shakers."

Got scissors?

I truly hope that no WDFW employee would make a remark like that.

Years ago I was out at Sekiu and saw a guy I knew from Forks boat a nice king, we pulled over to him to see him cut off the fin and then singe the fresh cut with a lit propane torch, you could not tell it was not natural..

Quota numbers haven't been updated since the 2nd.

Is MA 10 going to make it through to the 15th?
SF

I see that WDFW just updated the MA 10 catches on their site..

Through 8/7 catch was 680 Chinook or 49% of the quota. Looks like the fishery will last through the 15th.

Curt

Thanks Curt.

wonder what the quota is on Gorst Creek, theres a 300 foot long net streched across it with fish in it being eaten by birds...

and its been there for over 24 hours, even after someone called 3 different agencies (WDFW, NOAA, NWIFC)

Sounds like the next agency that should be called is King 5.

I'm sure the stewards are doing what's best.

Why of course they are.

Looked like they were hitting the "closed" Puyallup pretty well when I drove over it last weekend.
SF

WDFW FISHING RULE CHANGE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov

August 11, 2016

Catch limit in Marine Area 10 increases to 2 chinook per day

Action: Increases the daily limit for hatchery chinook to two fish in Marine Area 10, excluding Sinclair Inlet and fishing piers.

Effective date: 12:01 a.m. Friday, Aug. 12, through 11:59 p.m. Monday, Aug. 15, 2016.

Species affected: Chinook salmon.

Location: Marine Area 10 (Seattle/Bremerton Area).

Reason for action: Preliminary estimates indicate that anglers had caught 709 fish – or 50 percent – of the chinook quota of 1,395 fish for Marine Area 10. WDFW anticipates that sufficient quota remains to allow the fishery to run through Aug. 15 as scheduled and to allow for an increase in the daily limit to two hatchery chinook. The changes to the chinook fishery are in compliance with conservation objectives and agreed-to management plans.

Other information: The catch estimates and quotas for Marine Area 10 can be found at http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/reports_plants.html.

Marine Area 10 is scheduled to close Aug. 16 and will reopen Nov. 1 for chinook. Sinclair Inlet will remain open through Sept. 30. Fishing piers located in Area 10 (Elliott Bay Fishing Pier at Terminal 86 and Seacrest Pier) are open through Aug. 31 and will reopen Nov. 1. Fishing piers located in Sinclair Inlet (Waterman Pier, Bremerton Boardwalk and Illahee State Park) are open year-round.

For specific regulations, anglers should consult the 2016-17 Washington Sport Fishing Rules pamphlet available online at http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulations/.

Information contact: Ryan Lothrop, (360) 902-2808

10 was pretty stellar today. Get while the gettin' is good.

How much of our 1,395 A10 quota is still swimming? Anyone know the final catch number?

I was wondering the same thing. The WDFW webpage says "quota reached' for both MA 9 and MA 10, but is that accurate, or was it just 'season ended' in MA 10? WDFW reported only half of the quota caught a week prior to the end of the season and I didn't see very many fish being caught in the last week around Jeff Head/Shilshole. I would have preferred an extended MA 10 season over a 2 fish increase in the last week.

Relatedly, if you've ever seen the historical Ballard lock fish counts for Chinook, it's pretty clear that the tribes do a fantastic job of closing down the Chinook season in MA 10 a couple weeks (or earlier if quota met) before the Lake Washington Chinook return to the locks in healthy numbers. Would be nice to see an increased emphasis on carving out effective seasons (as opposed to just 'opportunity') in MA 10 in the coming years. 'Opportunity' is good for tackle stores and boat sellers. Effective seasons are good for families.

"Effective season" setting is the reasoning behind the 10 increase in limit, and then closure, rather than just extending the season. They are worried about incidental encounters with the "imperiled" coho stock....



... what remains to be seen is what our actual coho escapement numbers will look like.

The issue at the heart of this matter is that within the List of Agreed fisheries, MA10 was scheduled to close on that date, regardless of the recreational anglers ability to meet the quota. This year, the MA10 Quota was left on 8/15 at 76% with 1064 of 1395 fish caught.

Thanks for the numbers Sky-Guy. Probably have only myself to blame as I have never seriously considered trying to participate in the NOF process. That said, I think MA-10 gets treated like an after-thought relative to MA-9, and that's not right as the run timing is different. One can only hope that in future years when Coho numbers are back up and we don't have encounter issues, we could stretch the MA-10 hatchery Chinook season by 2 - 4 weeks to provide for better fishing. If necessary, I'd support MA-10 starting a couple weeks after MA-9, if the hatchery Chinook season in MA-10 could then stretch through Labor Day.

Not sure of the actual coho encounter risk but it surely was a factor in setting Chinook seasons. But note that MA 11 will close early -Friday midnight - based upon adult Chinook encounters (as I understand it). Guess everyone wanting to fish "locally" should make the run to south Hood Canal.