West End Bait Ban

Did I read the reg correct no bait after 2/18 in most OP streams? WOW!

Yep you read it wrong. It is actually no bait after 2/15.

2/16 Funny that one kinda flew under the radar for me. Guess I'll have to figure out how to fish nekid.

Bait ban on the OP?

If that's really the case, what rivers and when does the ban end?

Why would there be a bait ban on the OP?

Oh wait, why is there a section of the Hoh that you can't fish from a boat?

Never mind. Same assholes. Different rule against fellow fishermen.

Steelhead fishermen are truly a bunch of dumbfuks.

If you all want measures that protects more fish and allows for more fish catching opportunities on the OP, change the guide program/rules in our state. Limited entry, limited guided days, etc.

Banning bait does crap..especially now.

What's it going to do - save a few hatchery smolts now that you can't fish for in the future?

Retards.

Being a master baiter is becoming harder and harder each year.

LOL

Bait lives matter......

I am against the bait ban only because before the 80% of the anglers who think they can't catch a steelhead without a shromp or bait'o'eggs all crammed in below 101 on the west end streams, leaving the other 1/2 of of the rivers to the rest of us...now they won't have any reason to pile in the bait zone

Fish on...

Todd

Only pansies need bait to catch a steelhead.

I rarely use bait for Steelhead, and must say it has not hindered my gaudy numbers....lol

Save a worm's life. Fly fish. (I saw that on a tee shirt many years ago.)

I bought that shirt in West Yellowstone in '77.

Kinda late but it's a start for the sh!t the storm that's coming.....

Only pansies need no fishing from a boat and no bait waters to catch a steelhead.

I'm truly amazed at what a select group of "fishermen" have done to the rest of us and even amazed that no one really ever seems to care.

Just lean your head back further and keep on cutting deeper and deeper across your throats.....just as we have been doing for years now.

I'm truly amazed that Paker doesn't see what the future of steelhead fishing in WA most likely looks like, regardless of how much anyone cares. Or maybe he's just being all Paker-like here.

Let's see 30 years ago the human population in this state was 4.4 million, today it is 7.1 million; an increase of 160%!

In the same period the Puget Sound wild steelhead escapements (in key systems Samish, Skagit, Snohomish, LW, Green, Puyallup, and Nisqually) have fallen in the last 30 years (1986 to 2015) from 27,700 to 15,600; a 45% decline. This is in spite of elimination of 65% of the early time hatchery time winter-run steelhead smolt and drastic cuts in winter seasons with virtually no fishing after January.

On the coast the escapements of key OP systems (Quileute, Hoh, and Queets) have fallen from 18,700 in 1986 to 12,900 in 2015; a 30% decline.

Can anyone be surprised that we are seeing increasing restrictive fishing regulations? What are the options? Continuing to watch the resource disappear? More restrictive gear restriction?, shorter seasons?, reduced miles of rivers open?

What are your preferences? Don't like the current option GET INVOLVED!

Parker -
You might be surprised at the skill some of those fly flingers might demonstrate with a bait cast outfit and a bait of eggs. Know several that you would not want to follow behind! Of course they don't wear ascots!

Curt

I'm a lifetime angler and have a passion for fly fishing. I saved up all year and bought my first Spey rod to fish the Skagit back in the 90s when I was 16 and Rio Windcutter was the new hot line and the end of splicing and cutting. Anyway, I was involved with the fly scene before it went as mainstream as it is now and my point is that the fly groups lost me years and years ago. I was never pretentious and never saw fishermen as enemies. I fished spinners, spoons, and buzz bombs for salmon all summer so I wasn't just a fly guy. i never liked the attitudes and the choosing sides I was forced into. It's all BS and even a 16 year old saw through it back than. I was practically begged to join fly clubs and couldn't do it. Few of the people were genuine and many lived in a romantic fantasy world. I said fuk that and moved on.

Since than, fly groups just gain more and more power by making other sports fishermen part of the problem. Stam is right, they will just be the last group to lose.

Stam is kind of on target. As fish resources decline and human populations increase, the trend over the last 100 years has generally, but not always, been restrictions to less effective methods. There wouldn't be a whole lot of logic in allowing more effective methods with more people and fewer fish around.

In the end it could well be fly fishing only, or limited days, drawings for limited permits, or a season consisting of 3 or 4 3-day weekends a year. Whatever it is, it will have to match effort and catch (even CNR) with the available resource. What other choice is there?

Having the honor of being the last casualty is a nice turn of phrase, but I doubt it's going to feel nice when and if it comes to pass.

As Salmo says, look at what has happened to hunting seasons, especially something popular like deer and elk. Are seasons as long as they were 20/30/40 years ago? Are they as "liberal" vis-a-vis antler restrictions or open to all doe days? Can you use any weapon you want or must you choose? Fish will go the same way as game.

If it's come down to managing a fishery because of the "lack of opportunity", it's time to shut it all down.

Right?

No one section of the sport fishing community has any valid reason to have more opportunity to fish a river then the next, be it fly, guide, recreational angler, bait, from a boat, etc. The only exception is tribal.....the untouchable tribes.

If opportunity is seriously the problem you are managing for....you've already lost the game.

It's very apparent WDFW lost the game a long time ago.

Just sad to see it in my lifetime. I always figured it would hold out a bit longer.

Look on the bright side... you'll always be able to buy a steelhead at pike place or eat one at a casino

While the tribes are *part* of the problem, they are not and have not been the whole problem.....Only a fool completely blames the tribes for the loss of the wild steelhead. We are just as much to blame.

Unfortunately, at this stage of the game, as we the sportsmen are no longer retaining wild steelhead and are further going at each other restricting how, where, and why we fish, with nothing to show for our efforts, I've seen little to nothing done on the tribal side of the equation to really and truly help out their beloved natural resource.

Our wild steelhead runs are not healthier. They are not better. They are getting worse. And it doesn't and won't matter what we do.

Didn't just Salma just preach to me how our steelhead runs are and have been in decline?

Why are the OP tribes till running their gillnets across the Hoh, Queets, Clearwater, Quil, etc?

Why do we, as a citizen of our state, sit around with our thumbs up our butt and let the tribes continue to rape and destroy our beloved natural resource and state fish?

But yes, in 20 years from now, the only wild steelhead we will see is on a dinner plate, or sold in a select market.

Nothing and no one will stop the tribal gillnet fishery until the last wild fish is gone.

Parker -
Not sure that I was preaching to you about the status of our steelhead but rather presented some information that over the last 30 years as the State's population has grown the wild steelhead abundances declined. Not sure the two events are entirely related by it does cause one to pause.

The comment that I did direct you was that you may have underestimated the skills of some of those that have opted to switch to fly fishing with non- fly gear.

Your point that if opportunity most be reduced that it time to shut things down is certainly valid though not sure everyone would agree. However following that logic with the ending of harvesting wild steelhead in recreational fisheries should have resulted in the complete closure of steelhead fishing.

If that is your position have you ended your steelhead fishing?

Curt

I have and it's left a huge, sad void in my life. If I wasn't sitting on 11 points ea. for quality bull and buck I wouldn't be buying a Wa fishing OR hunting license!

I've spent exactly one day fishing steelhead in the last three years .

The bottom line is fly fisherman are just comfortable with balls bouncing off their chin while on their hands and knees taking it from behind.

Catch and Release.

This fits the WDFW model perfectly.

It's been about two years since I've fished steelhead. Don't plan on buying a WA license this year

The reduction in smolt plants is the problem on PS rivers, many have no chance(green, puyallup, snoqualmie) in recovering wild steelhead to fishable numbers so why waste the money and time on it and instead plant large numbers of hatchery fish and leave the rivers open through spring to take the pressure off the OP.

That would require triage, actually "writing off" wild fish in those urbanizing streams. While it makes sense, folks won't do it because of the money involved. No recovery funds if no "wild" fish.

It's like the "Plant the **it out of the Cowlitz and only put wilds above the dams. That writes off the below dam tributaries. Won't do it.

Triage is exactly the right thing to do in this case, as is the smart thing to do financially. Imagine the economic impact in puget sound if just one system had a return like the cowlitz. Also less anglers fishing where wild runs of fish have a chance of being self sustaining.

Just imagine:

Paker,

That is exactly what the Wildcat Steelhead Club said in regards to the Skagit wild steelhead CNR season in 1985. That if the runs wouldn't support the traditional (at that time) season of killing two steelhead per day per angler, then just shut it all down. A major problem with that line of thinking is the exceedingly faulty assumption that the steelhead run will ever again at any future time be capable of supporting that kind of fishery. Ignoring reality won't make reality go away.

I just heard last weekend that the human population in the Seattle area alone is increasing by 200 people per day. Per DAY! Even 20 years ago the WA state population was increasing by more than 50,000 per year. Among those new residents, guess what? Many come here expecting to participate in outdoor recreation, including sport fishing.

The opinion you express is fairly common. Unfortunately, it's a head in the sand way of thinking. Those good ole days are not coming back. With twice as many people and the same number of rivers as there always were, the fishing conditions and opportunity we most want ain't a happening thing. It's not on the menu.

You've taken Fisheries 101 and beyond, so you understand the concepts. It's not about what you or Stam or I want. It's about what's possible, given the conditions at hand. Those conditions are about managing what opportunity that does exist to provide something along the lines of the maximum potential or optimal fishing opportunity possible. And we have to look forward, not backward, to see that.

Sg

Insert sound of rhythmic skin slapping, dam building, and fly lines landing on the water.

Bob Behnke once calculated that a stream could support 60 hours of consumptive angling per acre per year and be sustainable. At a 5% release mortality of 5%, that same acre can support 1200 hours and be sustainable and suffer the same mortality. It is like C&R vs. gill net argument.

If your reason for fishing is dead fish in the boat the short kill seasons are the answer. This will require significantly higher costs as there will likely fewer anglers in the short, intense season. You can hunt pheasant on the eastside a lot cheaper than on the westside release areas.......

But, there should be no reason why WDFW can't provide both experiences. The knowledge is there to create the fisheries.

Plant fish.

Beads are all the rage now. Same guys will still pile below 101...just will now kill off the same fish using small beads or yarnies.

You don't need bait below 101 to lay waste steelhead, smolts, etc.

I'll be on the rivers next week putting the hurt to some fish without bait. I only like using a sand shrimp tail as it gives Bob something to do, not as a crutch to hook fish.

Oh wait, I'm bringing Delbert along. Never mind. Bob will be plenty busy undoing birds nests, retying lost gear, pulling hooks out of his head, etc.

When I started fly fishing salmon and steelhead mid 90s it was 10 gear to one fly where I fished. Now it is pretty much the opposite. Amazingly, the same thing is happening on the coast now. I see more fly guys than gear guys out there which was unthinkable in the 90. My point is that is a lot of fapping.

The eastside vs. westside pheasant hunting is a great analogy, there will never be a self sustaining population of pheasants on the westside, even if there once was. The WDFW could provide much better fishing opportunity on the PS rivers, through increased smolts plants, recycling of hatchery fish downstream, and lengthened seasons at the possible expense of the few wild fish that return to those streams, and therefore reducing the angler pressure on the Peninsula.

That would fix any moist wader problems.

The good old days.

"The eastside vs. westside pheasant hunting is a great analogy, there will never be a self sustaining population of pheasants on the westside, even if there once was."

Smitch sold the Eastside pheasant mitigation program down the road in one check cashing move.
Amazingly painful.

Meanwhile the Army Core of morons is mowing cattails at an alarming rate.

The problem is not simply that there are more fishermen, or even less. There are more people. They need water, they need houses, they need food, they need power. How many of the PS watersheds that were so great in the 70s now are developed with houses, McMansions, and so on.

Plant fish........................Have fish.

Back in the hay days most of the hills were clear cut to the banks of the river. At least houses don't fill the rivers with sediment.

The difference today is the people we pay to provide fish don't plant fish.
Now they just cash checks and collect their union pension.

The majority of steelhead spawning in the Green used to occur in the tribs. Last data I saw had almost all occurring in the mainstem. All that rearing habitat is un-used or under-used.

Data from the coast suggested that the early steelhead spawned in the tribs. The earlies have generally disappeared;

Every body blames Bolt........ You should look into who the State Attorney General was at the time and find out how unprepared and arrogant he was during the trial. The tribes didn't win as much as he lost. He is the real reason we are in the fix we're in now.

Myassisdragon-

My understanding of the steelhead situation on the Green generally match yours. Thought you and others might find the follow quotes taken from Enos Bradner's Northwest Angling published in 1950 chapter on Steelhead Rivers of Washington and the specific Green river discussion -

"Green River is the most heavily fished river in the Seattle area."

"Every possible drift is lined with anglers over a week-end and even on week days it is difficult to find a run devoid of fishermen."

"This river produced about 2,000 fish in 1947 and 1,750 in 1948" Note that information is from Game Department punch card reports.

"Although the river now opens in December the best fishing months are January and February." AS with most PS steelhead rivers the Green closed at the end of February during the 1940s and 1950s.

As a young angler learing the steelhead game during the early 1960s the common belief was that there was an early run of wild steelhead in late November and early December; these fish were typically larger than the typical Pautzkee pets. However following the Boldt decision and systematic scale sampling the vast majority of those so-called "natives" had scale patterns of hatchery fish. With the mass marking of the hatchery smolts in the mid-1980s virtual all those larger early steelhead had missing adipose fins.

Curt

That information on spawner distribution came from WDG/WDW/WDFW files of estimated escapements for the Green. Don't recall how far back it went but probably into the 79s, at least.

I wonder how long until fishing from a boat is prohibited on the OP?

Also, for those that haven't seen Bob's Facebook post, he's easily got to be in to double digits of fish today. Single angler, too.

I wonder how long until people realize that a single good guide on the OP will do more harm to wild fish in a single day than most people will do in a single season? There are several really good full time OP guides and a lot more so-so wanna be guides out there every single day......

Better restrict the guides, too.

Maybe start by a limited entry system as well as limited guide days on the rivers.....

Yeah, that will solve all the wild steelhead problems! Better do that next.

SHEESH! Don't give 'em any more ideas, Paker.

There's a lot of truth to that! I'm quickly realizing that my performance on the river of late is not much of a threat!! I hope I get banned last!

fb

Salmo speaks with strait tongue.

Alrighty then starting a full week of west end festivities starting tomorrow. Gonna drag out bags of worms large box of bobbers/jig I've had for a long time but seldom used. (I am a certified spoonofile however) Got me some 1 oz slinkies for dropping worms dieretely behind the cork lines on the Lowe H. They stack up behind the mono mesh you know. Using bait Wednesday however gonna get fished by a Quinjun. God I love a good bait bite.
Hoh tribe should capitalize on the new ban and start fishin white guys on the Hoh letem use bait and bonk one too better $$ than the current price of "wild cot" searun rainbow/day.

See ya all out there looks like the weather gods are smiling on us. The older I get the less it's about the numbers and more about being in the place and time.

That's total bullshirt numbers BABY!

And still the gill nets roll.